Lawyers want DNA tested by UK police

[Patsycat]

Perhaps they raped her, but did not kill her. That was someone else. Because the brutality of her wounds were of real animal like rage. Like someone who was very angry perhaps with the two young lads.

Shise, i hated writing that. Like she doesn't exist anymore as a person, just as a victim. She still is a person in my mind,

Edited October 12, 2014 by Patsycat

[chrisinth]

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I love to repeat my request

It would be so easy to save the reputation for thailand and authorities

-release all cctv recordings from the crime night

-take DNA from Nomsod by an independence investigation group

It would be so easy to stop all speculations and outcry

Its so simple,isn´t it ?

Release all CCTV recordings from the crime night.

Release them to who? The public? I am assuming the defence lawyers have access already.

IMO, the only results about releasing evidence to the public will be more speculation and theories.

[Gunna]

It's the only way. Forget what's happened.

Hannah's body was sent directly to the UK. You can bet your bippy that the UK took DNA samples from her cavities. They have the DNA of the rapist(s).

Now all they need is verified swabs from the accused to compare and I'll bet my bippy they don't match.

Yes, they have this DNA, for sure. We can trust them

Since lawyers are calling for Burmese against expertise they can easily compare.

And I bet the hat of my ancestor that DNA match.

It seems to me impossible that the Thai police have lied about the DNA. Too big, too random, too risky. This would obviously be a conspiracy by idiots.

Contrary to overall racist and contemptuous opinions posted here I do not feel the conspiracy and I think that Thais are not idiots.

You must be the only one supporting RTP, most negative comments are not racists, they are formed from the proven incompetence of RTP

[Johnsen]

Who says she was raped.... Thai people on the island. Maybe just maybe she was just murdered for rejecting them. No rape. A condom left there to confuse things so no findings can be had... No DNA so no rapist / murderer to be found. Let's face it they didn't take fingerprints from the hoe or DNA samples. Correct me if I'm wrong. Perhaps they r a lot smarter than we think...

[sweatalot]

It's the only way. Forget what's happened.

Hannah's body was sent directly to the UK. You can bet your bippy that the UK took DNA samples from her cavities. They have the DNA of the rapist(s).

Now all they need is verified swabs from the accused to compare and I'll bet my bippy they don't match.

Don't be so optimistic. Her body has been in the hand of Thai pathologists before. May even with the RTP standing right next to them giving some "useful " advice

[sweatalot]

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well lets see if the Junta will allow it.

What and lose face like the case at Chiang Mai a decade + back, when the BBC and the murdered girls family got a Ex Scotland yard guy out and he found the killer, a Thai, the PTP had charged a guy from Sydney, they threw the BBC out and cancelled there media accreditation.

This should be in the media and in the internet all around

[sweatalot]

It's the only way. Forget what's happened.

Hannah's body was sent directly to the UK. You can bet your bippy that the UK took DNA samples from her cavities. They have the DNA of the rapist(s).

Now all they need is verified swabs from the accused to compare and I'll bet my bippy they don't match.

So what if the alleged rapists pulled out before ejaculating or there was none?

555

you think that's the rapist way?

[sweatalot]

There have plenty of posts on this forum to the effect: We just want the truth to come out in respect for the victims. Bullsh-t.

If the 2 in custody are not responsible, and the REAL perpetrators are those who have been repeatedly suggested as such, then this becomes a story of Thai Police bungling, official corruption, bribery, the mafia in action, denial of human rights, and more.

If the 2 in custody ARE the real culprits,then it is just 2 stupid kids who got drunk and overreacted when they realized there were 2 people screwing near them on the beach.

But then why does Sean McAnna have similar injuries to those received by David?

The two Burmese kids and tiny and have supposedly beaten up David who is strongly built and 6ft 3 (190cm) tall Hannah much taller than them also. So the beat up rape, kill and drag body to the sea yet they the tiny Burmese kids have not a single mark on their bodies?

Mean while class mates of nomsot (who refuses to take DNA test) claim to have seen scratches on his neck while he attended class the following morning in Bangkok.

Missing 2mins of CCTV.

Failure to seal crime scene.

Failure to take moulds of foot prints

Failure to take finger or partial finger prints from the bloodied Hoe.

Publishing of photos of dead bodies by RTA policemen yet still being allowed to work on the case.

Mafia henchmen photographed standing next to police looking like best of mates at the crime scene

An "independent" translator Mr Banana pancake photographed in a RTA uniform!

2 Burmese passing initial DNA testing.

Refusal to insist and take DNA from nomsot.

Not looking at CCTV from Koh Samui airport or passanger lists of the morning after the murders and comparing to residents/tourists on the Island (TM30 would help there!)

If Nomsot is innocent why did he run from the island and wjhy is he refusing DNA test?

If the Burmese are guilty why did they not run?

Why release vital information and clue to the public way way way too early?

I am no Dick Tracey but even I can punch holes in RTA investigation.

Yes Marshal, that sums it up neatly. Agree 100 % Should be made public broadly

Edited October 12, 2014 by sweatalot

[sweatalot]

Re post #48: There are plenty of persons on here already with whom you can debate the evidence. In Thailand, a judge or judge panel can throw out all the evidence and still make a guilty or not guilty determination.

And the internet and the international media can make sure that everybody in the world knows.

If this country allows that (and biased corrupted police investigations)

they absolutely deserve to be in the pillory

[NeverSure]

I don't understand the blind faith by many posters here in that DNA will solve the case.

It might get the two Myanmar guys off, but will not help get the real killers!

You are not so naive, that you think the original DNA from the girl, is not conterminated from day one to cover the backside of the real culprits?

So their will never be a match to bind someone to the crime, but at best to exclude suspects!!

When the case first came to light, it was said that the Thais can't do DNA testing so they sent it to Singapore. They asked the US FBI for help and quickly changed their minds. Suddenly they were doing it all themselves. ??

This makes me think that perhaps the Thais don't know about touch DNA or DNA found on clothing etc. Also, does one think the the Thais would or even could flush Hannah out so well that not one trace of DNA would be found in her? Somewhere there was DNA and I hope the UK found it.

[draftvader]

This is really good news. It would end all the speculations if UK test the DNA from everyone involved. If the Burmese really did it , it would probably come as a shock for the rest of the world and clear RTP . So if RTP really wants to clear their name this is the only way. If they refuse , well this could very well be a coverup.

Thank you Balo. Nice to see the answer for both sides of the divide is the same thing. I just want the truth like you. If it is these Burmese lads then they deserve whatever the law of the country states. If it isn't then it is HUGE apologies time and time to arrest the true attackers. Unfortunately I said "apologies". I have never experienced an apology here in 6.5 years though so I imagine the digging and travesties of justice will continue and continue until it has just gone too far These boys are going to end up dead...one way or another.

[JLCrab]

Re post #48: There are plenty of persons on here already with whom you can debate the evidence. In Thailand, a judge or judge panel can throw out all the evidence and still make a guilty or not guilty determination.

And the internet and the international media can make sure that everybody in the world knows.

If this country allows that (and biased corrupted police investigations)

they absolutely deserve to be in the pillory

A judge in any country can disallow evidence if he doubts its authenticity or that it was improperly obtained.

[NeverSure]

I don't understand the blind faith by many posters here in that DNA will solve the case.

It might get the two Myanmar guys off, but will not help get the real killers!

You are not so naive, that you think the original DNA from the girl, is not conterminated from day one to cover the backside of the real culprits?

So their will never be a match to bind someone to the crime, but at best to exclude suspects!!

Very true, but if the crime is hung on two innocent people and "case closed," the real killers won't be sought. Job 1 is to prove they haven't found the killers. (And get those kids off the hook.)

As for contaminated, I don't think the Thais are that smart if even it can be done. There would be touch DNA, DNA on clothing, maybe in her cavities - she would be covered with DNA of whoever assaulted her.

[Publicus]

Re post #48: There are plenty of persons on here already with whom you can debate the evidence. In Thailand, a judge or judge panel can throw out all the evidence and still make a guilty or not guilty determination.

And the internet and the international media can make sure that everybody in the world knows.

If this country allows that (and biased corrupted police investigations)

they absolutely deserve to be in the pillory

A judge in any country can disallow evidence if he doubts its authenticity or that it was improperly obtained.

That would be according to the Rules of Evidence as established by law and according to the requirements of Due Process and Procedure as defined by law.

The only rules of anything around these parts however is that two wrongs make a right.

Not disagreeing with the post, simply extending it.

Anyone paying attention - meaning a lot of different people globally - can see that now, in real time in real terms by real locals.

It's reverse logic. The more wrongs there are, the more right it gets.

[Artisi]

Re post #48: There are plenty of persons on here already with whom you can debate the evidence. In Thailand, a judge or judge panel can throw out all the evidence and still make a guilty or not guilty determination.

And the internet and the international media can make sure that everybody in the world knows.

If this country allows that (and biased corrupted police investigations)

they absolutely deserve to be in the pillory

A judge in any country can disallow evidence if he doubts its authenticity or that it was improperly obtained.

Does that include Thailand, especially after it has the kiss of approval from the top (well nearly the top)?

[ParadiseLost]

When the cctv footage was inspected, I recall mention that 60 cameras would be checked. If there were any showing 'unwanted' suspects they would by now be destroyed. The small bits of footage released included one where 2 minutes was removed.

It should be requested by the Myanmar lawyers that a list of all cctv cameras be provided, and all previously inspected - original - footage be released into evidence. If there are any missing it would be further evidence of tampering.

DNA testing has almost certainly been compromised, so it should indeed be necessary to take fresh samples from anyone present at the crime scene that morning - to exclude them from suspicion.

Something is niggling at the back of my mind; wasn't mention made of a 70% DNA match? I can't seem to find where that originated, and doubt the percentage aspect but have heard of partial match. Was this pursued at all?

Perhaps the bar owners did provide samples and there was a partial match. That is when the son was suddenly a 'person of interest' (they put it a bit stronger than that...) and the veil came down.

Edited October 12, 2014 by ParadiseLost

[CockneyGit]

Great opportunity for Prayuth here. He can do the right thing and blame the culture of corruption on the previous administration.

Get everyone out in the chain of command who has been on the take and give both himself and the country a boost around the world.

Will he do it..??

[Franky Bear]

Great opportunity for Prayuth here. He can do the right thing and blame the culture of corruption on the previous administration.

Get everyone out in the chain of command who has been on the take and give both himself and the country a boost around the world.

Will he do it..??

Is it maybe too late for him to do anything with out making himself look a fool?

[billd766]

The UK Forensic Science Service was shut down in 2012

I didn't realsie that BUT there is a company here which does much the same thing.

http://www.lgcgroup.com/sectors/forensic-science/

LGC is a world leader in forensic science and the UK leading full service forensics provider. We work with police forces in the UK and internationally to assist with overseas investigations, government and private organisations throughout the world. We have a wealth of experience to ensure that the truth is unveiled, for a safer world.

[billd766]

well lets see if the Junta will allow it.

Would be interesting if they allowed the Brits to investigate and they then asked if they could DNA test 'you know who. '

Now that would be interesting.

Never going to happen.

If past cases are anything to go by the Burmese will get off on corruption of evidence thus saving face with Burma and the real killers will remain at large.

That would be the most Thai answer. The British answer will be

on a hire motorbike riding to Sairee Beach

More seriously though there might be enough pressure back home with an election for somebody to vacation in Koh Tao and pick up something that the family have handled. It wouldn't be admissible but would be enough to form the basis of political pressure to do things properly. It might be that the government is unwilling to exercise any pressure without the knowledge that they are right.

Breaking the Thai law himself by NOT wearing a helmet. There is also a helmet law in the UK. Stupid man.

[boomerangutang]

Perhaps they raped her, but did not kill her. That was someone else. Because the brutality of her wounds were of real animal like rage. Like someone who was very angry perhaps with the two young lads. Shise, i hated writing that. Like she doesn't exist anymore as a person, just as a victim. She still is a person in my mind,

I concur. I've met a lot of young women like Hannah, through the course of a work-exchange program I do in northernmost Thailand. Of the thousand or so farang backpackers I've met and worked with in the past 10 years, not one has been problematic. All have been cheerful and eager to meet this crazy world with alacrity.

However, since we're discussing a grizzly double murder, there's a hypothetical I want to mention: One thing that can set a man in to a rage is get his dick bit. Several prior posts have mentioned the believable possibility that date-rape drugs were/are commonly used at AC bar by the Thais who run the place and possibly facilitated by Sean (that could be a reason he's incognito). Now imagine they slipped Hannah a mickey and get her to go out to the beach in the wee hours (those two things constitute 90% of a rape scenario). While one or more guys are forcing themselves on her (and she sees David getting killed) it's not outlandish to surmise she may have put teeth in an offending member if it was within biting range. If that (along with some succint words) doesn't send a drug/alcohol fueled sex-crazed guy in to a rage, I don't know what will. Also, those suspects (connected to AC bar) are rich Thais who are used to getting their way with everyone, particularly cute drunk farang chicks, who may also have inadvertedly ingested a date-rape drug. I mention that possible scenario only because I (like many others) want the real culprits to be arrested and tried. The investigating cops don't appear to want to think about any of what I just mentioned, because it doesn't sinc with their frame-up of the Burmese guys. Also, I've heard nothing about whether cops checked bodies of those who should be suspects, via body searches (including privates) and blood tests. ....just another of the dozens of basic investigative things the cops appear to have NOT done.

[Pattaya46]

That would be the most Thai answer. The British answer will be

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Who is this guy?

[draftvader]

Would be interesting if they allowed the Brits to investigate and they then asked if they could DNA test 'you know who. '

Now that would be interesting.

Never going to happen.

If past cases are anything to go by the Burmese will get off on corruption of evidence thus saving face with Burma and the real killers will remain at large.

That would be the most Thai answer. The British answer will be

on a hire motorbike riding to Sairee Beach

More seriously though there might be enough pressure back home with an election for somebody to vacation in Koh Tao and pick up something that the family have handled. It wouldn't be admissible but would be enough to form the basis of political pressure to do things properly. It might be that the government is unwilling to exercise any pressure without the knowledge that they are right.

Breaking the Thai law himself by NOT wearing a helmet. There is also a helmet law in the UK. Stupid man.

Yeah, but the suits ferking Kevlar innit

[mommysboy]

Probably won't happen. If evidence has been tampered then of little use anyway.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 1 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[boomerangutang]

Great opportunity for Prayuth here. He can do the right thing and blame the culture of corruption on the previous administration.

Get everyone out in the chain of command who has been on the take and give both himself and the country a boost around the world.

Will he do it..??

Is it maybe too late for him to do anything with out making himself look a fool?

Pardon me while I re-write your sentence....

Is it maybe too late for him to do anything with out making himself look more foolhardy.

Is it maybe too late for him to do anything with out making all the investigators, from top brass on down, look like bumbling connivers.

[Franky Bear]

Great opportunity for Prayuth here. He can do the right thing and blame the culture of corruption on the previous administration.

Get everyone out in the chain of command who has been on the take and give both himself and the country a boost around the world.

Will he do it..??

Is it maybe too late for him to do anything with out making himself look a fool?

Pardon me while I re-write your sentence....

Is it maybe too late for him to do anything with out making himself look more foolhardy.

Is it maybe too late for him to do anything with out making all the investigators, from top brass on down, look like bumbling connivers.

It's a mess and i really can't see them doing anything other than convicting these poor lads. I really hope i'm wrong though

[changnaam]

I reckon if that missing 2 minutes CCTV was found this farce would be over. There must be other cameras in that street, but it am sure all evidence has disappeared.

There are certainly other people in front of that guy with the shorts on.

That and DNA (if there was any evidence left on the body).........

Will these 2 things ever come out?

[SteveFong]

Amazing that the dam has broken and they are still trying to plug holes

[BoristheBlade]

Maybe its been done already ;}

well lets see if the Junta will allow it.

Would be interesting if they allowed the Brits to investigate and they then asked if they could DNA test 'you know who. '

Now that would be interesting.

Never going to happen.

If past cases are anything to go by the Burmese will get off on corruption of evidence thus saving face with Burma and the real killers will remain at large.

That would be the most Thai answer. The British answer will be

on a hire motorbike riding to Sairee Beach

More seriously though there might be enough pressure back home with an election for somebody to vacation in Koh Tao and pick up something that the family have handled. It wouldn't be admissible but would be enough to form the basis of political pressure to do things properly. It might be that the government is unwilling to exercise any pressure without the knowledge that they are right.

[Thai at Heart]

well lets see if the Junta will allow it.

Exactly as this is what it all boils down to.

Many posters are calling for outside agencies involvement without considering they have no jurisdiction and can only operate if invited to do so and with all that's being going on it's probably the last thing the BIB want.

Defence lawyers could perhaps petition a court for independent testing and even if it was granted it would likely be blocked by the junta and martial law is still in existence too.

Sorry, I don't think that is totally accurate.

Myanmar lawyers can come here and take their DNA any time they want. They have the jurisdiction in Thailand, as they are the Myanmar Embassy lawyers. So they almost certainly are licensed to practice in this kingdom.

They are completly within their rights to demand the ability to collect DNA from their clients which will be the main basis for their defence.

Neither the Junta nor the BIB have any right to block it. These are NOT Thai nationals..... They are Myanmar nationals.

They have rights under international law.

I also can not see the UK refusing to cooperate with this request... It is totally rational, logical and a refusal would create a massive stink.... That will never be allowed to happen..... Trust me on that, I lived there foe 45 years.

I bet the UK police are itching to get their hands on those lads' samples.

I think you may have simplified things somewhat as foreign lawyers can only practice here if accepted by the Thai Law Society so proven knowledge of Thai law and the ability to read, write and speak Thai is a must.

Lawyers attached to embassies do not have an automatic right to anything. Yes demands can be made but do not have to be met. Foreign diplomats etc can make serious representation on behalf of their own nationals but have to remember they are in a foreign country with a different legal system and have no jurisdiction only the hope of diplomatic niceties.

I would presume the embassy itself has the right to take samples from the accused.

They are after all their own citizens.