The Investigation Into Thailand’s Backpacker Slayings Is Officially a Farce

[jdinasia]

Nearly 63,000 signatures . . .

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller?recruite

That mean nothing.

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"if" the DNA "is" an (honest and genuine) match, then their "confessions: mean absolutely nothing in the big scheme of things . . . cases are (should be) tried and judged on facts (supposedly) . . . and their biggest piece of evidence is the DNA . . . except no one now believes it's a genuine or truthful match . . .

The DNA (if it is only from the semen sample) would prove they were there.

It is not conclusive proof that they were guilty of murder.

[BSJ]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"if" the DNA "is" an (honest and genuine) match, then their "confessions: mean absolutely nothing in the big scheme of things . . . cases are (should be) tried and judged on facts (supposedly) . . . and their biggest piece of evidence is the DNA . . . except no one now believes it's a genuine or truthful match . . .

The DNA (if it is only from the semen sample) would prove they were there.

It is not conclusive proof that they were guilty of murder.

"The DNA (if it is only from the semen sample) would prove they were there." But were they alone?

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"if" the DNA "is" an (honest and genuine) match, then their "confessions: mean absolutely nothing in the big scheme of things . . . cases are (should be) tried and judged on facts (supposedly) . . . and their biggest piece of evidence is the DNA . . . except no one now believes it's a genuine or truthful match . . .

The DNA (if it is only from the semen sample) would prove they were there.

It is not conclusive proof that they were guilty of murder.

"The DNA (if it is only from the semen sample) would prove they were there." But were they alone?

That's the big question.

If the DNA matches and they were there in the first place....................

From almost the beginning of this tragic incident, I keep going back in my mind to the argument in the bar that was reported earlier the previous evening before the murder. Has this been properly investigated? Was someone told to make an example, possibly someone who worked for the AC enterprise, and things got out of hand? Who was involved in the altercation?

Seeing the pictures of the injuries inflicted, I couldn't conclude that this is just a case of lust invoked sexual assault leading to murder. (As a layperson with no experience of crime scenes)

It is one thing proving someone was there, it is a completely different story to prove why they were there in the first place.

But, that is just me, I don't want to start anymore speculation but would like to see the investigation expanded to cover and clear this point. I have personally seen what arguments in bars can/have led to in this country.

[catweazle]

'Farce' i think is the correct word. Allowing locals and tourists onto the crime scene while it was being searched for evidence. Releasing graphic photos of the victims' injuries that raised the whole temperature of this case internationally. Regular press briefings on suspects. None of this suggests a police force that was intent on a pernicious cover up. Rather it merely reveals how unsophisticated and inept are the Thai police in making such investigations.

Yes, I go along with most of what you are saying except that I would not describe this as a farce. Another way of expressing this, is to say that the Thai police could do with more experts in the field regarding these types of complicated investigations, plus are in desperate need of more resources and higher budgets to investigate such crimes, in many instances the Thai police force are up against the odds trying to fight crime with the limited resources at their disposal.

I can remember dating back to the tragic death of Princess Diana in France. During that time the French police made a right pig`s ear of the whole inquiry, they were considered as the most incompetent police force in the world and they had all the state of the art resources available to them, but again the amateur conspiracy theorists came out in force, only in those days the social media sites were not that well established so there were less platforms for them to air their views. But even today the conspiracy theorists are still ranting on about that case, mostly without a shred of hard evidence to back them up, so it remains as just theories that never have any factual conclusions.

Let us hope that this case does not conclude in the same way, and there will not be any doubts and that the souls of this tragic couple will be able to rest in peace and the minds of the families will be at peace. At this time, this is all we can hope for.

So what you mean is that it is not a farce if:

1) Police fails to secure the crime scene and let people including possible suspects (owner of AC bar only 50cm away from David's legs) trample the crime scene with the possibility to destroy and/or plant evidence?

2) A cigarette butt is used to make a conviction while semen inside one of the victims is being ignored?

3) Police is unable to tell what a stab wound looks like and how the work of a garden hoe on a skull looks like?

4) Possible witnesses or accessories to murde such as Sean with the bloody guitar who was hunted and received death threats by AC bar owner and his police friend (photo from behind the counter at 7Eleven).

5) A possible suspect reappearing at the Bkk university the day after with reported scratch marks on back and arms is not DNA tested because he's the son of one of the mafia king pins on Koh Tao?

6) Police ignores possible crucial two minutes on the CCTV cameras with those two minutes perhaps "lost"?

7) A footprint at the crime scene not being casted in plaster, only photographed?

8) Crucial confidemt information and shocking uncensored crime scene photos leaked to the internet by police and rescue?

9) The fact that David's attacker and murderer must have been a left hander with body height above Thai average according to the stab wounds being ignored?

10) No search for David's murder weapon, the push dagger?

11) Reports that police tried to bribe people into witness statements?

12) Torture and threats in a "safe house" away from witnesses to enforce confessions?

... and the list goes on and on... These are not just a few but thousands of open question marks, far more and very different to the Diana crash... If you can't see that the above points are more than enough to not question, but condemn the whole investigation with reason enough to put this above an average "conspiray theory", then you must be either completely ignorant or (sorry) mentally challenged. Throwing the Diana crash investigation and this case into one bucket does not work for me and most likely not for the truth seeking other 90% here..

And since you were talking about insufficient police budgets - it doesn't cost a lot to seal off a crime scene properly - and that was THE first and possibly biggest mistake they made. Any defense lawyer with a brain could rip the whole case apart only showing that one photo with that AC bar f#$eR standing next to one of the victims whereas he reappeared over and over again during the whole investigation.

Edited October 13, 2014 by catweazle

[utalkin2me]

They forgot to mention that there is at least one highly suspect individual who refuses to give a DNA sample (for what reason other than being guilty?) and whom the Thai police continues to overlook

I would not give my dna willingly if I was innocent. I don't agree with your thoughts on that. I don't think it is right to "corroborate" a person's guilt with "evidence" such as not giving one's dna, not acquiescing to a search, or anything others may consider "behavioral anomalies". But I do agree that all suspects should be looked into as much as possible.

[DISKO]

They forgot to mention that there is at least one highly suspect individual who refuses to give a DNA sample (for what reason other than being guilty?) and whom the Thai police continues to overlook

I would not give my dna willingly if I was innocent. I don't agree with your thoughts on that. I don't think it is right to "corroborate" a person's guilt with "evidence" such as not giving one's dna, not acquiescing to a search, or anything others may consider "behavioral anomalies". But I do agree that all suspects should be looked into as much as possible.

One reason he might not have given DNA is because his dad did and wouldn't the sons n dads dna be linked? I still think he should be tested all the same. Just a thought

[mataleo]

another horror story came to light, google "

THAI POLICE CHEATED AND LIED - SAYS TOURIST TO THE 'SANCTUARY OF TRUTH"

[sweatalot]

They forgot to mention that there is at least one highly suspect individual who refuses to give a DNA sample (for what reason other than being guilty?) and whom the Thai police continues to overlook

I would not give my dna willingly if I was innocent. I don't agree with your thoughts on that. I don't think it is right to "corroborate" a person's guilt with "evidence" such as not giving one's dna, not acquiescing to a search, or anything others may consider "behavioral anomalies". But I do agree that all suspects should be looked into as much as possible.

One reason he might not have given DNA is because his dad did and wouldn't the sons n dads dna be linked? I still think he should be tested all the same. Just a thought

Wasn' the result of his dad's DNA known after a time shorter than is needed for doing the biochemical test?

and (answering to another post): may be he did not refuse because of not being asked to give a sample - if the police for some reason (thick brown envelope e.g.) don't ask him to give a sample - the result is the same, isn't it?

[JacknDanny]

'Farce' i think is the correct word. Allowing locals and tourists onto the crime scene while it was being searched for evidence. Releasing graphic photos of the victims' injuries that raised the whole temperature of this case internationally. Regular press briefings on suspects. None of this suggests a police force that was intent on a pernicious cover up. Rather it merely reveals how unsophisticated and inept are the Thai police in making such investigations.

Yes, I go along with most of what you are saying except that I would not describe this as a farce. Another way of expressing this, is to say that the Thai police could do with more experts in the field regarding these types of complicated investigations, plus are in desperate need of more resources and higher budgets to investigate such crimes, in many instances the Thai police force are up against the odds trying to fight crime with the limited resources at their disposal.

I can remember dating back to the tragic death of Princess Diana in France. During that time the French police made a right pig`s ear of the whole inquiry, they were considered as the most incompetent police force in the world and they had all the state of the art resources available to them, but again the amateur conspiracy theorists came out in force, only in those days the social media sites were not that well established so there were less platforms for them to air their views. But even today the conspiracy theorists are still ranting on about that case, mostly without a shred of hard evidence to back them up, so it remains as just theories that never have any factual conclusions.

Let us hope that this case does not conclude in the same way, and there will not be any doubts and that the souls of this tragic couple will be able to rest in peace and the minds of the families will be at peace. At this time, this is all we can hope for.

So what you mean is that it is not a farce if:

1) Police fails to secure the crime scene and let people including possible suspects (owner of AC bar only 50cm away from David's legs) trample the crime scene with the possibility to destroy and/or plant evidence?

2) A cigarette butt is used to make a conviction while semen inside one of the victims is being ignored?

3) Police is unable to tell what a stab wound looks like and how the work of a garden hoe on a skull looks like?

4) Possible witnesses or accessories to murde such as Sean with the bloody guitar who was hunted and received death threats by AC bar owner and his police friend (photo from behind the counter at 7Eleven).

5) A possible suspect reappearing at the Bkk university the day after with reported scratch marks on back and arms is not DNA tested because he's the son of one of the mafia king pins on Koh Tao?

6) Police ignores possible crucial two minutes on the CCTV cameras with those two minutes perhaps "lost"?

7) A footprint at the crime scene not being casted in plaster, only photographed?

8) Crucial confidemt information and shocking uncensored crime scene photos leaked to the internet by police and rescue?

9) The fact that David's attacker and murderer must have been a left hander with body height above Thai average according to the stab wounds being ignored?

10) No search for David's murder weapon, the push dagger?

11) Reports that police tried to bribe people into witness statements?

12) Torture and threats in a "safe house" away from witnesses to enforce confessions?

... and the list goes on and on... These are not just a few but thousands of open question marks, far more and very different to the Diana crash... If you can't see that the above points are more than enough to not question, but condemn the whole investigation with reason enough to put this above an average "conspiray theory", then you must be either completely ignorant or (sorry) mentally challenged. Throwing the Diana crash investigation and this case into one bucket does not work for me and most likely not for the truth seeking other 90% here..

And since you were talking about insufficient police budgets - it doesn't cost a lot to seal off a crime scene properly - and that was THE first and possibly biggest mistake they made. Any defense lawyer with a brain could rip the whole case apart only showing that one photo with that AC bar f#$eR standing next to one of the victims whereas he reappeared over and over again during the whole investigation.

And dont forget about the victims mobile phone that was 'found' by the police behind the accuseds residence.

Yet the same phone was given to the Police by the victims friend the day after the murders and is seen photographed on the police desk!!!

And so it goes on......................

[Lancashireman]

In the full TIME article re CCTV: but is circumstantial at best.

In the USA, there have been murder convictions based upon circumstantial evidence when the body of the 'murder' victim has never been recovered.

Yes but slightly different circumstances... Those investigations probably were not shrouded in negligence, bribery, lying by officials, torture and incompetence

...investigations probably were not shrouded in negligence, bribery, lying by officials, torture and incompetence...yes, that's America...

[belg]

meanwhile on KT, they are preparing a big fest to bring back the dollars, sorry, tourists

i am suprised that the general or the police did not try this kind of thainess:

- if the british tourists would not have come to the beach in thailand, they would still be alive ....

- if the myanmar illegal workers, would not have come to thailand, they would still be free

Edited October 13, 2014 by belg

[connda]

No jury trials. Ouch.

[TV7]

'Farce' i think is the correct word. Allowing locals and tourists onto the crime scene while it was being searched for evidence. Releasing graphic photos of the victims' injuries that raised the whole temperature of this case internationally. Regular press briefings on suspects. None of this suggests a police force that was intent on a pernicious cover up. Rather it merely reveals how unsophisticated and inept are the Thai police in making such investigations.

Yes, I go along with most of what you are saying except that I would not describe this as a farce. Another way of expressing this, is to say that the Thai police could do with more experts in the field regarding these types of complicated investigations, plus are in desperate need of more resources and higher budgets to investigate such crimes, in many instances the Thai police force are up against the odds trying to fight crime with the limited resources at their disposal.

I can remember dating back to the tragic death of Princess Diana in France. During that time the French police made a right pig`s ear of the whole inquiry, they were considered as the most incompetent police force in the world and they had all the state of the art resources available to them, but again the amateur conspiracy theorists came out in force, only in those days the social media sites were not that well established so there were less platforms for them to air their views. But even today the conspiracy theorists are still ranting on about that case, mostly without a shred of hard evidence to back them up, so it remains as just theories that never have any factual conclusions.

Let us hope that this case does not conclude in the same way, and there will not be any doubts and that the souls of this tragic couple will be able to rest in peace and the minds of the families will be at peace. At this time, this is all we can hope for.

So what you mean is that it is not a farce if:

1) Police fails to secure the crime scene and let people including possible suspects (owner of AC bar only 50cm away from David's legs) trample the crime scene with the possibility to destroy and/or plant evidence?

2) A cigarette butt is used to make a conviction while semen inside one of the victims is being ignored?

3) Police is unable to tell what a stab wound looks like and how the work of a garden hoe on a skull looks like?

4) Possible witnesses or accessories to murde such as Sean with the bloody guitar who was hunted and received death threats by AC bar owner and his police friend (photo from behind the counter at 7Eleven).

5) A possible suspect reappearing at the Bkk university the day after with reported scratch marks on back and arms is not DNA tested because he's the son of one of the mafia king pins on Koh Tao?

6) Police ignores possible crucial two minutes on the CCTV cameras with those two minutes perhaps "lost"?

7) A footprint at the crime scene not being casted in plaster, only photographed?

8) Crucial confidemt information and shocking uncensored crime scene photos leaked to the internet by police and rescue?

9) The fact that David's attacker and murderer must have been a left hander with body height above Thai average according to the stab wounds being ignored?

10) No search for David's murder weapon, the push dagger?

11) Reports that police tried to bribe people into witness statements?

12) Torture and threats in a "safe house" away from witnesses to enforce confessions?

... and the list goes on and on... These are not just a few but thousands of open question marks, far more and very different to the Diana crash... If you can't see that the above points are more than enough to not question, but condemn the whole investigation with reason enough to put this above an average "conspiray theory", then you must be either completely ignorant or (sorry) mentally challenged. Throwing the Diana crash investigation and this case into one bucket does not work for me and most likely not for the truth seeking other 90% here..

And since you were talking about insufficient police budgets - it doesn't cost a lot to seal off a crime scene properly - and that was THE first and possibly biggest mistake they made. Any defense lawyer with a brain could rip the whole case apart only showing that one photo with that AC bar f#$eR standing next to one of the victims whereas he reappeared over and over again during the whole investigation.

And dont forget about the victims mobile phone that was 'found' by the police behind the accuseds residence.

Yet the same phone was given to the Police by the victims friend the day after the murders and is seen photographed on the police desk!!!

And so it goes on......................

[TV7]

You raise a lot of obviously suspicious questions. i take issue with two: what has that fantasist mccanna got to do do with the price of bacon? And the mobile phone pictured with Hannah in the bar is a totally different phone to the one pictured on the desk when Hannahs friend is talking to the police. If she had handed Hannahs phone to the police don't you think she would have spoken up by now?

[Kan Win]

Well in Kan they did catch the killer of

29-MAY-2005 photo taken

I was Thai police man from Kan.

Win

Sorry my bad

It was a Thai police man from Kan.

[jdinasia]

'Farce' i think is the correct word. Allowing locals and tourists onto the crime scene while it was being searched for evidence. Releasing graphic photos of the victims' injuries that raised the whole temperature of this case internationally. Regular press briefings on suspects. None of this suggests a police force that was intent on a pernicious cover up. Rather it merely reveals how unsophisticated and inept are the Thai police in making such investigations.

Yes, I go along with most of what you are saying except that I would not describe this as a farce. Another way of expressing this, is to say that the Thai police could do with more experts in the field regarding these types of complicated investigations, plus are in desperate need of more resources and higher budgets to investigate such crimes, in many instances the Thai police force are up against the odds trying to fight crime with the limited resources at their disposal.

I can remember dating back to the tragic death of Princess Diana in France. During that time the French police made a right pig`s ear of the whole inquiry, they were considered as the most incompetent police force in the world and they had all the state of the art resources available to them, but again the amateur conspiracy theorists came out in force, only in those days the social media sites were not that well established so there were less platforms for them to air their views. But even today the conspiracy theorists are still ranting on about that case, mostly without a shred of hard evidence to back them up, so it remains as just theories that never have any factual conclusions.

Let us hope that this case does not conclude in the same way, and there will not be any doubts and that the souls of this tragic couple will be able to rest in peace and the minds of the families will be at peace. At this time, this is all we can hope for.

So what you mean is that it is not a farce if:

1) Police fails to secure the crime scene and let people including possible suspects (owner of AC bar only 50cm away from David's legs) trample the crime scene with the possibility to destroy and/or plant evidence?

2) A cigarette butt is used to make a conviction while semen inside one of the victims is being ignored?

3) Police is unable to tell what a stab wound looks like and how the work of a garden hoe on a skull looks like?

4) Possible witnesses or accessories to murde such as Sean with the bloody guitar who was hunted and received death threats by AC bar owner and his police friend (photo from behind the counter at 7Eleven).

5) A possible suspect reappearing at the Bkk university the day after with reported scratch marks on back and arms is not DNA tested because he's the son of one of the mafia king pins on Koh Tao?

6) Police ignores possible crucial two minutes on the CCTV cameras with those two minutes perhaps "lost"?

7) A footprint at the crime scene not being casted in plaster, only photographed?

8) Crucial confidemt information and shocking uncensored crime scene photos leaked to the internet by police and rescue?

9) The fact that David's attacker and murderer must have been a left hander with body height above Thai average according to the stab wounds being ignored?

10) No search for David's murder weapon, the push dagger?

11) Reports that police tried to bribe people into witness statements?

12) Torture and threats in a "safe house" away from witnesses to enforce confessions?

... and the list goes on and on... These are not just a few but thousands of open question marks, far more and very different to the Diana crash... If you can't see that the above points are more than enough to not question, but condemn the whole investigation with reason enough to put this above an average "conspiray theory", then you must be either completely ignorant or (sorry) mentally challenged. Throwing the Diana crash investigation and this case into one bucket does not work for me and most likely not for the truth seeking other 90% here..

And since you were talking about insufficient police budgets - it doesn't cost a lot to seal off a crime scene properly - and that was THE first and possibly biggest mistake they made. Any defense lawyer with a brain could rip the whole case apart only showing that one photo with that AC bar f#$eR standing next to one of the victims whereas he reappeared over and over again during the whole investigation.

And dont forget about the victims mobile phone that was 'found' by the police behind the accuseds residence.

Yet the same phone was given to the Police by the victims friend the day after the murders and is seen photographed on the police desk!!!

And so it goes on......................

The phone conspiracy theory has been debunked.

[Kan Win]

He was told he could go but he wanted to press charges against the homeowner. He had to wait an hour for the tourist police who then told him he could press charges but he would go to jail for five years for trespassing.

Yes, and that is correct by Thai Law for trespassing or entering some ones property without an invite to do so in Thailand.

Win

[Kan Win]

https://www.facebook.com/justiceforHannahandDavid

Please like ans share..

Possible to get a few more responses to this??? Where are all the poster's who so much disagree with the "official accounts"??? Show your hands, PLEASE !

Sorry, but it is all the Thai, so cannot help out.

Win

[Kan Win]

more like , welcome to Dieland !

Well if folks ignore the "RED FLAGS" on the beaches and the "RED LIGHTS" on the roads, you are correct, both Thais and non-Thais have Died in Thailand.

Very sad really

Win

[Kan Win]

I don't think you can speak for most people. I know I can't.

Okay, let's have a poll.

Win here and I am a Pole, so what gives?

Win

[Johnsen]

That story re The Sanctuary of Truth is beyond belief. I am gob smacked. Of course he needs to come back and sue them or the dirty rotten police win again. The story needs to be spread far and wide so when he does come back its front page news around the world. Then we can c the Thai justice system put on trial. Everyone involved needs to do time like that poor chap did. Simply inhumane in this day and age.

[Pawpcorn]

Nice to see that this absurd travesty and kick in the face of humanity by now officially is being published as a farce. I personally believe that a proper word for it yet needs to be created.

Perhaps in the future there will be an insider phrases like these to be used amongst Thailand expats:

1) The police had a "Koh Tao Moment" (pretends to poke around in the dark whilst knowing who the "employer"... ahemm, sorry, suspect is)

2) The investigation "goes Koh Tao" (investigation was never intended to succeed)

3) "Oh, Koh Tao!" (famous last words instead of "Oh, $#!t!")

4) "Koh Tao you!" (instead of "F.... you!")

5) Incredible to see how quickly that "went Koh Tao" (went south)

6) "Don't give me Koh Tao!" (don't give me S#!t)

7) "Go to Koh Tao!" (go to hell!)

8) "That policeman is Koh Tao!" (corrupt, superficial, racist, part of mafia, a criminal himself)

9) "His chances for survial, to win, to succeed, etc. are Koh Tao." (99% chance to fail)

10) "This is so Koh Tao!" (this is so disgusting, sick, immoral, wrong, perverted, inhumane, despicable, corrupted and bad to the core all in one word)

This said, I believe with point ten I answered the "find the word" challenge myself: The murder investigation is officially "a Koh Tao!"...

And thus, this is how a culture's expressions and idioms are born... VERY astute post!!!

"Koh Tao" ME!!!

[changnaam]

If Time have taken up this story then the US media must be starting to show interest in the story. Hopefully more support against the "farce"

[mataleo]

[Wilsonandson]

10382021_716897395054655_2186842611512224207_o.jpg

So Sean's sold his story to the Sunday Mail. He knows nothing, attention seeker Wanner be actor.

[dabhand]

Breaking news from the BBC:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29604685

Thai diplomat summoned over murders

Thai diplomat summoned by UK Foreign Office over inquiry into murder of tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

[Wilsonandson]

Breaking news from the BBC:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29604685

Thai diplomat summoned over murders

Thai diplomat summoned by UK Foreign Office over inquiry into murder of tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

Wow, David Cameron, we love you !!!!

Now, we have a case for a reinvestigation.

[jdinasia]

Breaking news from the BBC:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29604685

Thai diplomat summoned over murders

Thai diplomat summoned by UK Foreign Office over inquiry into murder of tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

Wow, David Cameron, we love you !!!!

Now, we have a case for a reinvestigation.

Didn't read the content of the story, sad.

[changnaam]

Breaking news from the BBC:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29604685

Thai diplomat summoned over murders

Thai diplomat summoned by UK Foreign Office over inquiry into murder of tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

Wow, David Cameron, we love you !!!!

Now, we have a case for a reinvestigation.

Come on, put some pressure on for real justice