Thailand plans one of world's tallest skyscrapers

[Kerryd]

Keep Clam and Remember the

Ocean Tower 1 (in Jomtien).

http://www.ocean1tower.com/index.php#home

[kkerry]

Oh dear god! They plan to build this huge building on flood plains and do not even realise or care that in about 100yrs alot of BKK will be under water. Completely and utterly stupid!!

If you're on the 125th floor then you don't need to worry about floods...

[heybruce]

I wonder where they plan to build, and how far the support columns will go down? Any engineers here?

It's the first I've heard of it... Baiyoke Tower pilings go down 60 meters. To hit bedrock in Bangkok it could be between anywhere between 400 to 800 meters some sources place it deeper. The size of the footprint relative to the weight, hight, depth and the number of piles is perhaps the most important thing; however, there is nothing below us but sand and clay. The buildings here are at best floating on it.

I hope that wasn't a too simple response from a drunk.

I'm not an architect or civil engineer, but it is my understanding that tall buildings need very stable foundations. If your numbers are correct they will have to sink the foundations approximately as deep as the planned building will be tall. Or they could have less deep foundations and hope that all that weight on top of wet sand and clay will be stable. That's the kind of land that shakes like jello during earthquakes, and sometimes liquifies.

I'm sure it could be done, but that raises the question--why? Is it really economically feasible, or is this somebodies vanity project?

[Chris Lawrence]

They can build as many skyscrapers and shoppingmalls as they want, it doesn't change the fact, that Thailand is still a third world country!!

please define what is a third world country ?

Try Google

[trogers]

Yea, 600m tall building resting on 100m deep piles...

[klauskunkel]

Thailand plans one of world's tallest skyscrapers

collective penis envy syndrome

[KIWIBATCH]

Hey slow down people first things first.....

Tour de France Thailand!

...and "Martial Law Tourism"....and "hub" of....umm...errr...hell I have lost count

[chotthee]

I stand to be corrected but wasn't this tried once before with Baiyok II and that didn't turn out too well some issue over the piles and possibility the building would sink ?

And did it?

No. It is still standing graciously.

[JulesMad]

What is the point?!? Another example of 'mine is bigger than yours???'

Grow up, and do something useful!

[Pii Kate]

I hear they plan on being first men on Mars !

Such a thrilling time to be Thai and world beaters.

This great leader of theirs is nothing short of a god!

Don't you ThinK?

Agreed. I am so happy that the Winter Olympics will be in Thailand and that The General is nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. These are lively times for us all.

[Local Drunk]

I wonder where they plan to build, and how far the support columns will go down? Any engineers here?

It's the first I've heard of it... Baiyoke Tower pilings go down 60 meters. To hit bedrock in Bangkok it could be between anywhere between 400 to 800 meters some sources place it deeper. The size of the footprint relative to the weight, hight, depth and the number of piles is perhaps the most important thing; however, there is nothing below us but sand and clay. The buildings here are at best floating on it.

I hope that wasn't a too simple response from a drunk.

I'm not an architect or civil engineer, but it is my understanding that tall buildings need very stable foundations. If your numbers are correct they will have to sink the foundations approximately as deep as the planned building will be tall. Or they could have less deep foundations and hope that all that weight on top of wet sand and clay will be stable. That's the kind of land that shakes like jello during earthquakes, and sometimes liquifies.

I'm sure it could be done, but that raises the question--why? Is it really economically feasible, or is this somebodies vanity project?

The economics of it all are beyond me... Yes it can be done.

[Morakot]

I'm not an architect or civil engineer, but it is my understanding that tall buildings need very stable foundations. If your numbers are correct they will have to sink the foundations approximately as deep as the planned building will be tall. Or they could have less deep foundations and hope that all that weight on top of wet sand and clay will be stable. That's the kind of land that shakes like jello during earthquakes, and sometimes liquifies.

I'm sure it could be done, but that raises the question--why? Is it really economically feasible, or is this somebodies vanity project?

The economics of it all are beyond me... Yes it can be done.

Yes it's a mere vanity project. You can build 30 buildings that are each one 10th in height of this proposed skyscraper at the same total cost of the one tall building.

That makes the units three times as expensive than your average built. In the end the buyer might even pay four or five times as much for the sheer novelty factor.

Sustainability and reasonableness is not normally considered for such projects and at large economic discourse cannot address such questions.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Morakot

[wackybacky]

On a foundation of silty sand?

The piles will have to hit bedrock.

Pie in the sky.... no pun intended.

[bertty]

and now everyone waits for the"Super Collapse"

Please check and compare your seismic data with building standards in places that do actually have earthquakes. A moderate quake in Bangkok by Californian or Japanese standards would cripple the city.

If a decent sized earthquake hit Bangkok, there wouldn't be a city.

[Local Drunk]

Vipavadee Road under the Don Muang toll way is a good example... The piles that support the tollway create a whoop dee do drive along the earth laid highway. With piles the tollway sinks at a much slower rate than the road beneath it.

[trainman34014]

Hope the two Guys i saw building a wall yesterday are not involved. This morning when i passed it had fallen down !

This project is yet another reason why i don't go anywhere near Bangkok apart from in transit through the airport. Do these genius's forget the place is sinking and won't be visible above mud in 30 years ?

Edited October 15, 2014 by trainman34014

[Local Drunk]

and now everyone waits for the"Super Collapse"

Please check and compare your seismic data with building standards in places that do actually have earthquakes. A moderate quake in Bangkok by Californian or Japanese standards would cripple the city.

If a decent sized earthquake hit Bangkok, there wouldn't be a city.

Let's hope that doesn't happen...

[webfact]

Super Tower: Tallest building in Southeast Asia coming to Bangkok
By Coconuts Bangkok



BANGKOK: -- When icon-to-Tron MahaNakhon finally scrapes the sky in 2016, it may not have long to enjoy its tallest-in-town status.

Developer Grand Canal Land announced its intention Tuesday to build the tallest building in Southeast Asia near the intersection of Rama IX and Ratchadapisek roads.

With an estimated price tag THB18 billion, the Grand Rama IX Super Tower Iconic – or whatever they finally call it – will rise 615-meters on 11.7 hectares as part of the mixed-use project already underway next to the Central Plaza Grand Rama 9 mall.

That’s more than double the 304 meters of Baiyoke II, which MahaNakhon will eventually edge out at 314.

Full story: http://bangkok.coconuts.co//2014/10/15/super-tower-tallest-building-southeast-asia-coming-bangkok


-- Coconuts Bangkok 2014-10-15

[bangon04]

Amazing how a story about a new building can bring out the TV Thai bashers out in force

Actually I think it is the daily dose of ridiculous BS announcements that come from so many Thai government departments, and thus we are conditioned to treat every Thai announcement with the same scepticism.

Perhaps if the announcements/announcers were more credible, more often, we would feel able to take more of them seriously.

Which does Thailand more harm? The constant stream of BS or the scepticism of a few foreigners?

"Listen carefully. I am your social superior, so it is your Thai duty to listen to my BS politely then write it down and report it in the prss. We all know that this is BS, but because I say it and I am important, then you must pretend it is the truth and smile a lot. Those of you with only a Thai education are not qualified to challenge my BS anyway. The opinions of the rest of the world are worthless inside Thailand"

Edited October 15, 2014 by bangon04

[Ve37]

The top of the Golden Mount Temple already has the best panoramic views of the Southeast Asian capital.

The temple of the Golden Mount is the only place in the world where Buddha's bones are known to be stored,...and yet it is one of the least visited temples in Bangkok. I think they should move them to Chiang Mai, where they would be more appreciated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bones_of_the_Buddha

Edited October 15, 2014 by Ve37

[Local Drunk]

I'm not an architect or civil engineer, but it is my understanding that tall buildings need very stable foundations. If your numbers are correct they will have to sink the foundations approximately as deep as the planned building will be tall. Or they could have less deep foundations and hope that all that weight on top of wet sand and clay will be stable. That's the kind of land that shakes like jello during earthquakes, and sometimes liquifies.

I'm sure it could be done, but that raises the question--why? Is it really economically feasible, or is this somebodies vanity project?

The economics of it all are beyond me... Yes it can be done.

Yes it's a mere vanity project. You can build 30 buildings that are each one 10th in height of this proposed skyscraper at the same total cost of the one tall building.

That makes the condo units three times as expensive than your average built. In the end the buyer might even pay four or five times as much for the sheer novelty factor.

Sustainability and reasonableness is not normally considered for such projects and at large economic discourse cannot address such questions.

I agree with Morakot on this...

[darrendsd]

Amazing how a story about a new building can bring out the TV Thai bashers out in force

Actually I think it is the daily dose of ridiculous BS announcements that come from so many Thai government departments, and thus we are conditioned to treat every Thai announcement with the same scepticism.

Perhaps if the announcements/announcers were more credible, more often, we would feel able to take more of them seriously.

Which does Thailand more harm? The constant stream of BS or the scepticism of a few foreigners?

"Listen carefully. I am your social superior, so it is your Thai duty to listen to my BS politely then write it down and report it in the prss. We all know that this is BS, but because I say it and I am important, then you must pretend it is the truth and smile a lot. Those of you with only a Thai education are not qualified to challenge my BS anyway. The opinions of the rest of the world are worthless inside Thailand"

Most of your post does not make sense however just to correct you the Government did not announce the plans for this Skyscraper, the developers did, however in time honoured Thai Visa poster fashion I wouldn't expect any poster to actually read and understand a story before giving their opinion on it.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

Could be a building anywhere in China, why not try to include some unique Thai design to it?

[Drew rolf]

Good luck,I hope it succeeds ,did you know Thailand is heading towards the golden era,in the next 40 to 50 years Thailand will be up there with the rest of the world,if the Thais are at least trying ,give them confidence and credit,

[RTH10260]

Grand Canal Land Public Company, hmm so the land will be near a canal?

They flood a lot don't they?

Are there any implications for a building this size on land that floods on a regular basis?

Apart from buying some wellies, that is.

They are planning for climate change: when BKK gets under water they still will be visible

[nong38]

The plan is to build from a new material called noodlement, its lighter and cheaper than concrete. The other bonus is that noodlement floats, well a bit anyway, enough time for you grab a ring in the rainy season. No need to use piles, they are old hat, just get a few tractors to level the ground off, jump up and down a bit and bob's your uncle. If it does fall down I would just put it down to bad luck or something that I did not understand," I have abuilt a shed once and it did not fall down ( for a few weeks ) surely there is nothing difficult about building one thats abit bigger?" said a spokesman from the contruction department.

[Fairynuff]

Good luck,I hope it succeeds ,did you know Thailand is heading towards the golden era,in the next 40 to 50 years Thailand will be up there with the rest of the world,if the Thais are at least trying ,give them confidence and credit,

They're definitely trying

[steveromagnino]

This is a PRIVATE company, it is not government money, it is shareholder funds and debt paying for it.

AFAIK Grand Canal (the developer) AKA GLand are doing a massive development including the Robinson/Central Rama 9 shopping center (already open), Belle Park (already open) and a bunch of already let office buildings which will house Unilever among others (already under construction). They hope to unlock the value of their massive 70+ rai site by building 1 'hero' tower which will give a halo to the rest of the development as the new CBD of Bangkok (their name not mine).

The hero tower may not in itself get as much of a premium as they want, but that remains to be seen; within the overall development it seems to be a reasonably logical decision, even if it may be the wrong one (I question whether Rama 9 and Ratchada would EVER be considered a new city CBD, having heard the same thing about Rama 3 and Muangthong Thani, but they seem to have the funding and tenants to make it possible and at least successful as a fancy office park). With enough scale, they can link in to the express way and roading system, they are next to the MRT, very close to the airport link.....as far as ambitious projects go it's not too far in left field (unlike Ocean Tower 1).

I question whether you can get a premium on rental per sqm for supertall office space in Bangkok (I know you can for residential proven by Iconsiam, MahaNakhon, et al) but again, the developer is probably looking at this one element as part of a whole; a bit like putting restaurants and a supermarket in a shopping center - the SOM tower helps him achieve the tenancies he needs for the rest of the development. So this is not some pie in the sky random idea, this is a decent sized developer with most of the development done or underway, announcing the next component.

With regards to construction, given the real architects behind this are SOM, an international firm, it would seem that if you think the engineering is not up to scratch then you would have to wonder about Willis Tower and Burj Khalifa, both also SOM designed buildings.

There are numerous buildings above 250m, and a few now going above 300m; piling goes down deep enough to protect the building from earthquakes etc. Supposedly. Foundations are typically something like 20-25% of the height of the building, and it depends a lot on the shape of the base.

The idea that a company whose business is building and leasing buildings should not build something because 70 years from now Bangkok might or might not be flooded is something some of you 'experts' should propose at some property developer shareholder meetings, please let me know when you do, as a shareholder they tend to be pretty boring affairs, having some good comedy as the farang self proclaimed expert explains the concepts of business and preserving shareholder value by not doing anything in preparation for the next 70 years should be good for a laugh.

Furthermore, the developer is in a competitive business. Univentures/Golden Land (K Charoen) and/or Central et al are encroaching on the office space territory with the Lumpini mega project, whoever locks up the big multinationals first will be the success and the other will be the also ran (perhaps).

Its a ballsy project.

Ocean 1 was a foreign developer with some track record, trying to launch a mega tower with a need to sell a huge proportion of the building to get funding, in a non beachside location. This is a lot more likely to get off the ground; I wouldn't count on it, but for sure WaterFront, IconSiam and MahaNakhon are all happening, this one and the Circle's Thonglor 36 developments are the ones that are maybe too early to say. Offices and hotels are easier because there is no necessarily a leveraging aspect with financing tied to sell through rates, in this case they may be able to secure financing quite quickly (in fact they already have) to start building...whereas a resi tower needs 40% sales (sometimes more sometimes less) before banks start allowing draw downs for construction. On the flip side....hard to make money out of the hotel or the office tower sometimes, and more so for a supertall if you don't really nail the efficiency. However....if you are making money out of resi, hotel, retail, mid rise commercial, high rise commercial, convention center....and then you plop a mega tall in the center as the cherry on top....there's a certain amount of logic to that.

Cherries. Yum. I'll prepare some for that shareholder meeting Q&A. Along with some pie. Maybe Cherry & humble pie.

Edited October 15, 2014 by steveromagnino

[loongdavid]

From an engineering point of view this is shear adulterated madness. The water table is so high that even if the foundations were excavated down the equivalent of 15-20 floors they would still remain unstable. There just isn't enough concrete even in Thailand to substitute for hard rock.

I guess only the extremely foolish, wealthy or social climbing Chinese will purchase an apartment and then I hope they have bucket loads of insurance (if they can get it). The Eureka Tower in Melbourne, Australia comes to mind. Although small by comparison it too required DEEP foundations and gold tinted glass and fittings just to entice the Chinese to buy an apartment - they did!

[mikiea]

I wonder where they plan to build, and how far the support columns will go down? Any engineers here?