Phuket: English language 'complaint' centre could address immigration corruption

[phil2407]

Can I apply for a job their as I'm English and do actually speak English or will it be like the Thai muppets in the passport office "Trendy " building in Bangkok that when suits them - can't understand?

[madmitch]

And the one on the back desk with the designer specs and ear piece for his mobile phone.

Surely not! He seems to have an aversion to seeing anyone. Maybe he knows who is going to pay over the top and waits for them specifically.

[Jambo]

Unfortunately mitch, I work for a big company in Phuket. He comes up with endless "extra" paperwork and documents required, until he is slipped the under the counter filled envelope.

[Canucklehead]

when i go in next time I will take my cousin in law, a General wearing street clothes to help "translate" and see how things go...

[NamKangMan]

For all tourist, if 200 baht is going to impact your beer comsumption, well 1f 7$ usd breaks the bank, stay home. Where are you from, paying sales taxes, service charge 10%, tips. Somethings need to fix here, but bitching when your on holiday for 200 baht, take it home.

The issue is not 200 baht or 2000 baht or 200,000 baht. The issue is the fee for service was paid already. This is corruption - the amount they demand does not matter.

If these immigration officers don't like their jobs or not paid enough then just quit and do something else. Or stand out front of the building with a begging cup for some extra coin.

Thai visa costs are not cheaper than visas to other countries. Yet other countries manage to pay their immigration staff high enough wages that they don't have to extort money from every foreigner. Can idiots like you understand that?

And who do you think you are to say who should be here or not. Any rational person would not pay anything extra than what the cost is. People do have a right to complain.

To those not of Thai nationality who wish to join the brave fight against corruption in this ancient and magnificent country I say, good luck, you will need it, and if perchance you succeed then be prepared for unintended consequences.

"and if perchance you succeed then be prepared for unintended consequences." - I think it's Thailand, but particularly Phuket, that needs to "be prepared for unintended consequences" of their corruption.

Tourism down 10% and predicted to be down 15% to 20% this high season.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/768135-thai-tourism-industry-martial-law-killing-arrivals/

You can only lie, cheat, scam, rip off, rob, assault, rape, extort and murder so much, before people do not come here, or do not return here.

We are seeing that happening now, and it's not for the 200 baht to Immigration - it's the systematic corruption, at all levels, across all industries, that repelled the traditional westerm market, and is now even repelling the Russian market.

[NamKangMan]

when i go in next time I will take my cousin in law, a General wearing street clothes to help "translate" and see how things go...

Would your cousin in-law be available for translation services with tuk-tuk drivers?

[NamKangMan]

For all tourist, if 200 baht is going to impact your beer comsumption, well 1f 7$ usd breaks the bank, stay home. Where are you from, paying sales taxes, service charge 10%, tips. Somethings need to fix here, but bitching when your on holiday for 200 baht, take it home.

I don't think 'tourists' would worry about a couple of hundred baht 'tea money', not being wise to Thai practices. What do you think about 'tea money' being asked for Retirement Extensions. Are you condoning corruption? Please tell us.

foot in mouth he wont be back...

He's probably still trying to find out where his money really went for the sick buffalo up in Issan. Maybe the buffalo had "foot in mouth" disease. Hope he didn't lose too much - enough to effect his "beer consumption."

Edited October 16, 2014 by NamKangMan

[Canucklehead]

you laugh but we try to only use tuk tuk drivers we know , just call them up, don't get scammed. I suppose it did not hurt that on my last visit back I brought 2 PS4's for the kids..... apparently they weren't out in Thailand at the time , was a very big hit with the family.

I always believed in taking care of those who take care of you ....

[iReason]

Who's going to step up to the plate?

Apparently not gyrosman.

Seems he'd rather live on his knees.

It's not about the money...

[iReason]

For all tourist, if 200 baht is going to impact your beer comsumption, well 1f 7$ usd breaks the bank, stay home. Where are you from, paying sales taxes, service charge 10%, tips. Somethings need to fix here, but bitching when your on holiday for 200 baht, take it home.

I don't think 'tourists' would worry about a couple of hundred baht 'tea money', not being wise to Thai practices. What do you think about 'tea money' being asked for Retirement Extensions. Are you condoning corruption? Please tell us.

foot in mouth he wont be back...

He's probably still trying to find out where his money really went for the sick buffalo up in Issan. Maybe the buffalo had "foot in mouth" disease. Hope he didn't lose too much - enough to effect his "beer consumption."

I've decided, reluctantly, to give him a pass.

It's quite clear, he's illiterate.

For starters...

And quoting dollars leads one to believe he can't claim the "not my first language" defense.

[Benmart]

For all tourist, if 200 baht is going to impact your beer comsumption, well 1f 7$ usd breaks the bank, stay home. Where are you from, paying sales taxes, service charge 10%, tips. Somethings need to fix here, but bitching when your on holiday for 200 baht, take it home.

Advice concerning the money of others, is best kept to ones self.

[Pundi6446]

Yes you just have to slip some money under the counter, to get any notice of any real service, out of at this new office

[BestBitterPhuket]

For all tourist, if 200 baht is going to impact your beer comsumption, well 1f 7$ usd breaks the bank, stay home. Where are you from, paying sales taxes, service charge 10%, tips. Somethings need to fix here, but bitching when your on holiday for 200 baht, take it home.

Paying bribes is a criminal offense in most western countries, even if it happens overseas. Several Americans are serving long prison sentenced for paying bribes overseas. Also, not everyone wants to contribute tonthenrottrn system in Thailand. It's actually people like you who should stay away.

[Liquorice]

gyrosman, on 16 Oct 2014 - 16:56, said:

For all tourist, if 200 baht is going to impact your beer comsumption, well 1f 7$ usd breaks the bank, stay home. Where are you from, paying sales taxes, service charge 10%, tips. Somethings need to fix here, but bitching when your on holiday for 200 baht, take it home.

It's not about whether your a Tourist or a resident here. It's not about the money either, it's about the principal of supporting corruption.

200, 500, 1000, 5,000 baht. Where do you draw the line with their greed gyrosman?

The practice of corruption can only succeed if everyone buries their head in the sand and does nothing about it.

You probably go home after your visit to Thailand and those of us that live here are left with the problems that you helped to create.

To put it in perspective, 200 baht will feed a Thai family for a day. I know who's mouth I'd rather feed.

[godden]

So how much will it cost in the complaint centre to get a follow up on my complaint???

[kamahele]

I guess I was lucky when I still had to make visa runs as there was no corruption on the Thai side of the border, only on the Cambodian side for me.

[rickirs]

Maybe the Junta should institute a reward for farangs who reject a bribe solicitation by government authorities? That would really put government employees on edge! Unfortunately, such a program would create a year or more backlog for claims.

[jacko45k]

So foreigners had no avenue of complaint prior at immigration.

I guess they were obliged to become fluent in Thai (both language spoken and written and the idiosyncrasies of behaviour) first.

Edited October 17, 2014 by jacko45k

[xylophone]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"Surely not! He seems to have an aversion to seeing anyone. Maybe he knows who is going to pay over the top and waits for them specifically.

And the one on the back desk with the designer specs and ear piece for his mobile phone".

"Unfortunately mitch, I work for a big company in Phuket. He comes up with endless "extra" paperwork and documents required, until he is slipped the under the counter filled envelope".

I had a most unpleasant experience with this guy about three years ago, when my old passport was expiring and I had already obtained a new one and when I put all my paperwork in front of him, he immediately asked for 500 baht. I asked why and he replied "because you have two passports", to which I replied I didn't think that was right and I didn't think I had to pay the 500 baht, and I remained quite adamant about that, and when he realised it was getting a little embarrassing he simply said that it was a joke.

But that's when the trouble started..........I gave him the letter from the bank and the copies of my bank books (two books actually) showing the money had been in for over three months and he asked me to give him copies of EVERY page in my bank books, but I said that they were back in Patong and I didn't think they were necessary because he had all he needed in front of him.

His reply was that he wanted to see them and that I had to listen to him, so I had to go back to Patong, get the originals and copies and then returned in the afternoon.

I then had to go up and down the steps to the photocopy room below about a dozen times over the next hour or so when he would request a different copy of this, or of that, or of a duplicate of another one and so on, even down to wanting copies of blank pages of my passport and bank books – – absolutely no reason for it whatsoever other than to show me who was the boss.

Eventually after almost a full day, a return journey to Patong, many trips to the photocopy room below and back to the office he was obliged to complete my application, although he could well have thrown it out.

To see that two posters on this thread know this about the same guy, +4 other expats I was speaking to at immigration yesterday, speaks volumes about how corrupt that place is because he has been doing this for years.

Edited October 17, 2014 by xylophone

[LivinginKata]

^

I have often had this sort of run-a-round detailed above. I copy everything, and take all the originals. If the officer gets annoyed with me he tells me to photo copy this and that. I try to explain that copies are already in my big pile of paper work submitted. My wife cautions me to comply, so I copy the paper work demanded. Must admit it is hard to keep my mouth shut when he throws (and I mean throw) the extra copies he demanded back to me while sorting through my copies. It's not only rude, but down right obnoxious. Talk about petty power abusers.

[NamKangMan]

For all tourist, if 200 baht is going to impact your beer comsumption, well 1f 7$ usd breaks the bank, stay home. Where are you from, paying sales taxes, service charge 10%, tips. Somethings need to fix here, but bitching when your on holiday for 200 baht, take it home.

Advice concerning the money of others, is best kept to ones self.

"Advice concerning the money of others, is best kept to ones self." - especially when the new "girlfriend" is ugly.

Edited October 17, 2014 by NamKangMan

[Roel]

What if gas station staff or the girls from Dairy Queen selling ice cream would charge you an additional 'service fee' because their wages are so low. Would you pay that? I think not.

Yes, immigration officials wear a uniform and they CAN make life difficult for you. Still I opt for fighting corruption at all levels.

If you are a tourist who don't mind spending extra because in your home country everything is more expensive (what kind of argument is that) or because it is only small change compared to your huge holiday budget then tip the bar girls generously and make their Thai boyfriends happy!

[Jimi007]

I've still never paid any "service" fee for anything at Phuket Immigration, only the stated fee. Though the skinny guy in the middle of the back row has tried and I've just laughed at him. He won't be bothered serving me now, which is just fine with me!

Edited October 18, 2014 by Jimi007

[Konini]

It warms my heart to see that people are starting to speak out against corruption. It's always been a bur under the saddle for me. I have never paid an extra fee for anything. I have always stood my ground - the only time we have encountered it is at land border crossings, and when my husband see me saying 'I don't think so' and folding my arms across my chest he now doesn't complain, he finds somewhere to sit knowing we could be in for a wait of a couple of hours. At first he used to say things like 'For heaven's sake, it's only a couple of dollars, just give it to him' but I can't. I just can't. Something inside me stops me. It's wrong, and if nobody takes a stand, it won't ever stop. I've been in the position of having a couple of dozen farangs behind me also refusing to pay, but I'm dismayed at the fact that they need a leader to follow, if I weren't there they would just pay it, but at least they stand behind me and don't push through taking the attitude that it's just a couple of dollars.

Where I come from, the person giving the bribe is punished equally to the person receiving it, This is what keeps our society going. Just because I'm in a foreign land does not mean I have to change my morals. If everybody keeps on doing it, it will never stop. Here's something I tried about 6 years ago but failed dismally, perhaps someone could reproduce it with more luck. My plan was simple - I was going to record it and put an anonymous video on Youtube. I wore a shirt which had a breast pocket and set up my mobile phone, carefully padded from behind to stop it from moving and in the exact position I had found in practice runs the previous day. As we approached, I turned on the camera's video and away we went. On this occasion it was a pearler - we were held up for almost an hour and a half. I made sure I was in position when talking to people, turning my whole body not just my head when I was seeking assistance from other immigration officers - has anyone ever noticed just how many immigration officers there are at the Poipet crossing? Unfortunately, when I looked at the video, it was no good. The camera wasn't in the right position, and I was filming stomach's, didn't even get the name badges that they all wore. I was cursing myself, I'd spent quite a bit of time planning this and testing it on my long-suffering husband.

Why doesn't somebody a bit cleverer than me do the same thing? If it's widely known that certain officers are asking for extra money, why doesn't someone get it on record? If one were caught out, it would probably put the fear of Buddha into the others and put a stop to the practice immediately. All it takes is for someone to take a stand. Now I find that I'm not such a lone voice, which pleases me greatly. When talking to people, some of those who used to shake their heads at me in disbelief or laugh at me are now starting to mumble grumble. The tipping point, while still a long way off, is being approached. I know that this is not our country, and what right do we have to interfere blah blah blah. But no matter where we are in the world, we still have the right to live up to our own moral standards. I refuse to allow someone to force or cajole me into doing something that goes against everything I stand for. Others are also seeing that it may be worth saying no.

To those who refuse to partake in this insidious practice, good on you. To those who prefer to make illegal payments to avoid some inconvenience, to make life easier, shame on you.

Shame on you.

[me313]

The comments make me glad I'm not the only one to see blatant corruption in this official snare for Farang

[jpeg]

CCTV the new LAW in Thailand...

London has the most CCTV on the planet and finally admitted in a report out yesterday that they are next to useless. Surprisingly enough police presence was found to be the most effective preventative against crime. Don't expect that here.

[jpeg]

It warms my heart to see that people are starting to speak out against corruption. It's always been a bur under the saddle for me. I have never paid an extra fee for anything. I have always stood my ground - the only time we have encountered it is at land border crossings, and when my husband see me saying 'I don't think so' and folding my arms across my chest he now doesn't complain, he finds somewhere to sit knowing we could be in for a wait of a couple of hours. At first he used to say things like 'For heaven's sake, it's only a couple of dollars, just give it to him' but I can't. I just can't. Something inside me stops me. It's wrong, and if nobody takes a stand, it won't ever stop. I've been in the position of having a couple of dozen farangs behind me also refusing to pay, but I'm dismayed at the fact that they need a leader to follow, if I weren't there they would just pay it, but at least they stand behind me and don't push through taking the attitude that it's just a couple of dollars.

Where I come from, the person giving the bribe is punished equally to the person receiving it, This is what keeps our society going. Just because I'm in a foreign land does not mean I have to change my morals. If everybody keeps on doing it, it will never stop. Here's something I tried about 6 years ago but failed dismally, perhaps someone could reproduce it with more luck. My plan was simple - I was going to record it and put an anonymous video on Youtube. I wore a shirt which had a breast pocket and set up my mobile phone, carefully padded from behind to stop it from moving and in the exact position I had found in practice runs the previous day. As we approached, I turned on the camera's video and away we went. On this occasion it was a pearler - we were held up for almost an hour and a half. I made sure I was in position when talking to people, turning my whole body not just my head when I was seeking assistance from other immigration officers - has anyone ever noticed just how many immigration officers there are at the Poipet crossing? Unfortunately, when I looked at the video, it was no good. The camera wasn't in the right position, and I was filming stomach's, didn't even get the name badges that they all wore. I was cursing myself, I'd spent quite a bit of time planning this and testing it on my long-suffering husband.

Why doesn't somebody a bit cleverer than me do the same thing? If it's widely known that certain officers are asking for extra money, why doesn't someone get it on record? If one were caught out, it would probably put the fear of Buddha into the others and put a stop to the practice immediately. All it takes is for someone to take a stand. Now I find that I'm not such a lone voice, which pleases me greatly. When talking to people, some of those who used to shake their heads at me in disbelief or laugh at me are now starting to mumble grumble. The tipping point, while still a long way off, is being approached. I know that this is not our country, and what right do we have to interfere blah blah blah. But no matter where we are in the world, we still have the right to live up to our own moral standards. I refuse to allow someone to force or cajole me into doing something that goes against everything I stand for. Others are also seeing that it may be worth saying no.

To those who refuse to partake in this insidious practice, good on you. To those who prefer to make illegal payments to avoid some inconvenience, to make life easier, shame on you.

Shame on you.

Indeed you are not a lone voice. You would find good company with Atchariya Ruangrattanapong, chairman of the Club for Justice Under Investigation who are planning to give a 20,000 baht reward to anyone doing exactly what you attempted to. Just search BP for the article, which cannot be linked here. More such civic groups are needed here.

[jpeg]

For all tourist, if 200 baht is going to impact your beer comsumption, well 1f 7$ usd breaks the bank, stay home. Where are you from, paying sales taxes, service charge 10%, tips. Somethings need to fix here, but bitching when your on holiday for 200 baht, take it home.

Paying bribes is a criminal offense in most western countries, even if it happens overseas. Several Americans are serving long prison sentenced for paying bribes overseas. Also, not everyone wants to contribute tonthenrottrn system in Thailand. It's actually people like you who should stay away.

Paying bribes is a criminal offence here under Section 144 of the Penal Code which will get you a 5 year jail term.