UK cops 'to only observe'

[SupermarineS6B]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

We probably would allow an investigation team to conduct their own investigation if they were not happy with the methods employed in Britain. Unfortunately we can all see what's going on here........ Now even Sovereignty is being brought into the picture............ Patriotism, the last refuge of a rogue................It's laughable the amount of damage being caused to Thailand by being just stubborn, and of course not wanting to be found out......... loss of face and all that.........

[BoristheBlade]

Ok I agree.

But in a crime of the magnitude, with the outside world not convinced, why don't the RTP let the DNA be independently tested?

Why?....you know why....because there in no match with the real dna found on the victim.

[JohnThailandJohn]

The families of Thailand murder victims Hannah Witheridge and David Miller have been invited to help secure death sentences for the suspects ....

Justice officials said the grieving parents can team up with prosecutors to file joint murder charges against two Burmese migrant workers ....

The quirk of Thai law means murder victims families can hire lawyers and investigators who could turn up additional evidence or testimony.

However, such cases are rare because of the hefty costs.

The offer was made by the prosecutor in charge of the case.....

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798695/families-thai-murder-victims-invited-secure-death-sentences-suspects-despite-concerns-ve-framed.html#ixzz3GZ73UP00

But surely that is a two way street, can't the families also introduce evidence to the contrary of what the police have submitted?

Somebody actually thinking logically and not emotionally or looking for conspiracy

[american12bthai]

Not much point them coming then. It didn't help in Chiang Mai case... Very sad to see Thailand, its leaders and it's police treat human life like this..

Only one way to get justice and that is for the people of the world to stop coming to Thailand, especially those islands.. That will remain to b seen if the people of the world are committed to justice. If human history is to be repeated the people will return. We simply forget overtime. Sad but true... Thailand knows this all to well.

2 more lives will b taken just to rub our noses in it....

I guess those islands are even more dangerous than we ever thought... If you think about it they have gone to a lot of trouble to clear Nomsods name. Of course it only takes 1 photo to show him on the island, one piece of his phone data, one leaked piece of CCTV footage, anything really to completely destroy his alibi and truly show the world how disgusting this cover up is. If I was Nomsod and the authorities I would b shitttting myself forever that that could happen. Someone somewhere holds Thailand reputation and this kids life in their hands. Just depends on when the info comes out and who wants to prove it.

Money can truly buy you everything and anything. Can it b reversed on his alibi.. Time to dig a bit deeper perhaps and fight fire with fire.

well. wait and see if the british detectives are "mysteriously" murdered accidentally.. for discovering too much.

[Somtamnication]

I can see this coming:

UK cop: We must wear gloves.

Thai cop: arai godai, krap

UK cop: We must cover our shoes

Thai cop: arai godai, krap

UK cop: Evidence protected by what?

Thai cop: mai loo, krap

UK cop: You guys have no idea on how to protect evidence and crime scenes!!!

Thai cop: arai wa? You bad falang!

That honeymoon will be over by the time the somtam is ready to be eaten!

[bongoz]

The families of Thailand murder victims Hannah Witheridge and David Miller have been invited to help secure death sentences for the suspects ....

Justice officials said the grieving parents can team up with prosecutors to file joint murder charges against two Burmese migrant workers ....

The quirk of Thai law means murder victims families can hire lawyers and investigators who could turn up additional evidence or testimony.

However, such cases are rare because of the hefty costs.

The offer was made by the prosecutor in charge of the case.....

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798695/families-thai-murder-victims-invited-secure-death-sentences-suspects-despite-concerns-ve-framed.html#ixzz3GZ73UP00

How repulsive.

Although I DO think the two Burmese are scapegoats...

Law has to 'be a good fit' for the whole of the community. The law isn't 100% always right, mistakes are made as laws can't be written for every possible scenario.

Many countries have provisions for victim impact statements - not to the degree that is permissible in Thailand. But in other cases it would be more than acceptable for families to become a part of the criminal / court proceedings.

I don't find the post "repulsive" at all.

Two young people have been murdered, nothing can bring them back. All that is left is justice and hopefully with the world watching justice will prevail...

[PhillyBoy]

You Brits are crazy!! No country or National Police Force would allow another country to come in and do an independent investigation. What world do you live in that you have seen that happen?? Why do you think that you can question the country's investigation, say they are wrong and its a frame-up and then think that because you signed a petition that the PM is going to roll over on his Thai investigators? Please.

The best that can happen is that the court and prosecutors review the evidence and the correct result is established as to guilt. I am tired of hearing about the Great Conspiracy! The biggest fault I have is that they put too much info out before vetting it and it created confusion amongst the idiot population.

[bongoz]

The families of Thailand murder victims Hannah Witheridge and David Miller have been invited to help secure death sentences for the suspects ....

Justice officials said the grieving parents can team up with prosecutors to file joint murder charges against two Burmese migrant workers ....

The quirk of Thai law means murder victims families can hire lawyers and investigators who could turn up additional evidence or testimony.

However, such cases are rare because of the hefty costs.

The offer was made by the prosecutor in charge of the case.....

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798695/families-thai-murder-victims-invited-secure-death-sentences-suspects-despite-concerns-ve-framed.html#ixzz3GZ73UP00

But surely that is a two way street, can't the families also introduce evidence to the contrary of what the police have submitted?

Somebody actually thinking logically and not emotionally or looking for conspiracy

I find it an emotional situation and it does cloud my judgement sometimes. But I can't stand it when people just sprout rubbish.

I would hate to live in a world governed by TV members... it would be a LIVING HELL!!!

[JohnThailandJohn]

Ok I agree.

But in a crime of the magnitude, with the outside world not convinced, why don't the RTP let the DNA be independently tested?

Why?....you know why....because there in no match with the real dna found on the victim.

Because the case will be presented and defended in a court of law and not the press or for internet detectives and conspiracy theorists.

Even in first world nations this is how things are done. In the US right now a big case going on about a cop who shot an unarmed black kid which led to big unrest and riots. Cop has not been arrested months later despite numerous witnesses against him and now everything is in a grand jury to see if they will even charge him ... all evidence and testimony presented in a grand jury (going on a month now) is secret and anyone reporting what they said during the hearing can go to jail.

So lets stop acting like Thailand has some different process. Citizens and the public are not in control of things even in the worlds biggest democracy. Yes, Thailand being less developed and having a very low paid police force is going to be more corrupt but there is criminal procedures that are followed such as trying the case in court and not in the press.

The police have made their case and now have presented it to prosecutors. That is their job and now the prosecution with present it to the court where the defense will have a chance to challenge and present their own evidence .... none of these people's job is to present evidence to the press to convince doubters. Folks can pour through the trial transcripts and evidence after and both side can also appeal the verdict numerous times.

But I doubt much of this applies since I suspect the admitted murdering rapists will plead guilty to try to avoid the death penalty and have the hope of seeing freedom again since rarely is even a life sentence actually a life sentence in Thailand.

Edited October 19, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[Krataiboy]

Let's be realistic. Prayuth and Cameron are politicians. Their primary interest will be in maintaining good relations between their respective countries and that, in the process, no egg ends up on their faces. What is the fate of a couple of poor immigrants compared with these overriding priorities?

What we are witnessing now is theatre. If you want an indicator of how insistent the tap-dancing Cameron is likely to be if the Thais fail to respond to pressure for a more thorough investigation, consider the recent supine stance adopted to the Thai investigators by our resident UK Ambassador.

It is not difficult to read between the lines of the weasel words pronounced by the British diplomatic source quoted in the Bangkok Post report: ". . .an agreement from the Thai prime minister that we can send some British police investigators to Koh Tao to work with the Royal Thai Police on this", but . . . "it is for the Thai authorities to lead and carry out that judicial process"

This is official double-speak designed to appease the 100,000 Downing Street petitioners and other parties concerned that a frame-up is in progress, while at the same time giving the Thais the green light to continue as they wish.

The Thai investigators have already made it clear that they believe they have the murderers and Prayuth denies in the article that the Myanmar men now in police cells are scapegoats. The UK police role, he emphasised, would be that of “observers”.

With two birds already in the hand and seemingly no more in the bush, calls for the two principle characters in this grubby little soap opera to reopen the case in the interests of preventing a possible miscarriage of justice are, regrettably, doomed to fail. Political expediency will, as always, win out in the end.

[Emster23]

In the interests of fairness and to expedite the case, British investigators will be bound and gagged, and strapped into office chairs.

regarding allowing foreign crime investigators in on investigation: ever hear of Lockerbie Pan Am bombing? US investigators worked hand in hand with British on that one. I don't want to argue outcome of investigation, just point that British didn't worry about "losing face" or any of that. They wanted to find perps, unlike here it seems.

[davidmann]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

the difference is the british police do there job don't take tea money ,wish i had to pay 200 bt every time i got stopped for speeding in the UK ,

[AnotherOneAmerican]

The Thai government needs to be called on their unauthorised comments in no uncertain manner and, for example, a travel advisory which goes beyond the usual notice of martial law etc but actually warns travellers their diplomatic representatives may not be able to help them because of restrictions and so on from the ' host ' government.

I think you'll find every informed traveler and country embassy advices citizens to leave their "we our more special" attitudes at home when visiting another country as they have absolutely no jurisdiction into criminal matters within other countries or much of anything else. Once you leave your own country you are bound by the laws and procedures of that country and highly doubtful your embassy will even provide an attorney without your paying ... they will however hold your hand for comfort from time to time but that is about it.

Not true, many countries insist on using their own laws for sex crimes committed abroad.

Anyway, all that is required of the British police, is they take their own DNA samples from the accused, and send them back to the UK. No investigation required.

Edited October 19, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Carrerakiss]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

I think you are being deliberately provocative, obtuse or scaremongering.

I do not believe that anyone is asking for British police to come to Thailand, and take over the whole investigation with the RTP surrendering all legal authority. Working with the RTP, using the British logical, steady process for information gathering, reviewing what has been done to date and advising on what might not have been fully or at all, using British forensic abilities and technology, hopefully eventually leading to a conclusion on who the killers might be.

At which time they pack up their bags and go home because clearly the judicial process belongs to Thailand. What's wrong with this scenario?

It's not a new thing, take a look at how the Australian police assisted with the Bali bomb investigation.

So please, don't draw comparisons that have no relevance. It's not helpful.

[catweazle]

Superficial blahblah, from a superficial leader in an superficial country... what else to expect? Now he even speaks for western officials and he even "thinks"...

"He said he did not think the police would dare do such a thing in a high-profile case like this."

Well the case just became a high profile case, no? And this due to foreigners and Thais alike who would not buckle under the RTP threats... Before the RTP <deleted!> thought it would be business as usual... something like, "Dammit, our untouchable Koh Tao serial killer boys have taken out and raped another farang girl again, and guess what the jack<deleted> even took out some guy who needed to play hero and safe her. Let's go and clean up this mess before it hits media. Koh Tao Capone promised me a new Fortuner if we make it go away... Make sure that a maximum of bystanders and one or two of our beloved murder boys trample the crime scene to bits, arrest and DNA test all Burmese, especially the ones without papers and cause as much confusion as possible. I want several patsies and wrong leads to show. That should do the trick!"

I am very disappointed in Mr. P to say the least - Thailand is still in a downward spiral, him backing the corrupt RTP and mafia structures clearly shows it.

[animatic]

Standard face saving codswallop.

Nothing more nothing less.

[keemapoot]

The Thai government needs to be called on their unauthorised comments in no uncertain manner and, for example, a travel advisory which goes beyond the usual notice of martial law etc but actually warns travellers their diplomatic representatives may not be able to help them because of restrictions and so on from the ' host ' government.

I think you'll find every informed traveler and country embassy advices citizens to leave their "we our more special" attitudes at home when visiting another country as they have absolutely no jurisdiction into criminal matters within other countries or much of anything else. Once you leave your own country you are bound by the laws and procedures of that country and highly doubtful your embassy will even provide an attorney without your paying ... they will however hold your hand for comfort from time to time but that is about it.

Not true, many countries insist on using their own laws for sex crimes committed abroad.

Anyway, all that is required of the British police, is they take their own DNA samples from the accused, and send them back to the UK. No investigation required.

I agree. Simple, no inconvenience for the Thai police, and painless for everyone... unless someone has something to hide.

[JohnThailandJohn]

In the interests of fairness and to expedite the case, British investigators will be bound and gagged, and strapped into office chairs.

regarding allowing foreign crime investigators in on investigation: ever hear of Lockerbie Pan Am bombing? US investigators worked hand in hand with British on that one. I don't want to argue outcome of investigation, just point that British didn't worry about "losing face" or any of that. They wanted to find perps, unlike here it seems.

Bad example to use in terms of trying to make UK authorities look like they are on the up and and up. By the way, this was an investigation that involved numerous countries and suspects and evidence in numerous countries. This was a crime in Thailand and all the evidence, suspects and victims were in Thailand. No reason to get international agencies involved to solve the case. The UK needed the FBI assistance to get convictions of Al-Megrahi and still couldn't get a conviction of the other suspect. Thailand didn't need the assistance of anyone for this case except possibly Singapore to help identify the race of suspect from DNA.

[IAMHERE]

A few points are out of place:

1. Now he speaks for Cameron. What he says and what the UK press is saying are like, 1000 km apart.

2. Bobbies are here to only observe. UK police are never happy to only observe. They are prolific in their hunting and gathering. They will go nuts just observing.

3. Thai police follow the law. No scapegoats. I seriously doubt that. Not their modus operandi to NOT have scapegoats.

To believe these two are 'scapegoats' one would have to believe that a family in Koh Tao has the political power to corrupt the top most positions of power in Thailand, hundreds of miles away in Bangkok. Is Thailand in such shape as to allow a family in Koh Tao to tell the most powerful men in Thailand which way the wind is blowing ?

Edited October 19, 2014 by IAMHERE

[Carrerakiss]

Ok I agree.

But in a crime of the magnitude, with the outside world not convinced, why don't the RTP let the DNA be independently tested?

Why?....you know why....because there in no match with the real dna found on the victim.

Because the case will be presented and defended in a court of law and not the press or for internet detectives and conspiracy theorists.

Even in first world nations this is how things are done. In the US right now a big case going on about a cop who shot an unarmed black kid which led to big unrest and riots. Cop has not been arrested months later despite numerous witnesses against him and now everything is in a grand jury to see if they will even charge him ... all evidence and testimony presented in a grand jury (going on a month now) is secret and anyone reporting what they said during the hearing can go to jail.

So lets stop acting like Thailand has some different process. Citizens and the public are not in control of things even in the worlds biggest democracy. Yes, Thailand being less developed and having a very low paid police force is going to be more corrupt but there is criminal procedures that are followed such as trying the case in court and not in the press.

The police have made their case and now have presented it to prosecutors. That is their job and now the prosecution with present it to the court where the defense will have a chance to challenge and present their own evidence .... none of these people's job is to present evidence to the press to convince doubters. Folks can pour through the trial transcripts and evidence after and both side can also appeal the verdict numerous times.

But I doubt much of this applies since I suspect the admitted murdering rapists will plead guilty to try to avoid the death penalty and have the hope of seeing freedom again since rarely is even a life sentence actually a life sentence in Thailand.

Then why have the Thai cops allowed a free flow of information as it pertains to the guilt of the accused? Where's your grand jury secrecy and jail time if you break it?

Ah, so Thailand IS different. Thanks for clarifying that point, but since you have disproved your own point that Thailand is the same as the US, why did you make it in the first place?

You don't happen to wear a uniform on some days with TPV embroidered on it do you?

[buhi]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

the difference is the british police do there job don't take tea money ,wish i had to pay 200 bt every time i got stopped for speeding in the UK ,

Even Prince Charles was fined for speeding!

[balo]

The UK must take DNA samples from the scapegoats parents and compare with their own samples from the victims bodies.. They should be able to do this without PM permission..

If they have nothing to hide, why not take the samples directly from the suspects? An honest police department would welcome confirmation.

Have you ever heard of Thai pride and the "not losing face" issue? In a western country if someone accuses you of something wrong you'll do everything to clear your name.

In Thailand its more like , "if I do not care about what other thinks of me" everything will be fine in the end and life can go on.

Edited October 19, 2014 by balo

[mikiea]

the brits waited to long, should of jumped in sooner before the coup govermt could close ranks with rtp. brit & anglo euro expats here have a very short memory.... i will refresh you, thailand is no longer democratic. all the rules change when the elected govermt is thuged out of power. the past elected leaders were just as bad but had the vote. now thailand has joined the ranks of cuba and a flock of banana coup "republics". bottom line. .... you are not that important to thailand. in fact you could be replaced , and some say it is already started to happen.....oop's, sry tend to ramble

[Neeranam]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

the difference is the british police do there job don't take tea money ,wish i had to pay 200 bt every time i got stopped for speeding in the UK ,

Is it OK for you to pay a bribe and get off with a traffic offense but not OK for an island-owner to pay 10 million baht and a get a relative off with murder?

My point being, you can't have one and not another. You can't have a slightly corrupt police force, or a only corrupt for minor crimes police force.

[SupermarineS6B]

Very sad........ The true nature of many Thais and Thailands attitude to foreigners has been brought out to such an extent during this whole mess, that i don't think Thailand's going to get over this one too quickly. I just hope the family connections and the "Bung" money to white wash this case was enough to justify all the damage that has been caused........ Personally i think it would of been easier just to nail the low life to the wall at the beginning. After seeing many similar cases in Thailand in my three decades here, i can honestly say this has destroyed most of the good feelings that i had for this country......... If all was above board, wouldn't it just be easier just to invite anybody in to investigate, just to reduce the damage being caused at the moment through this whole RTP farce........ Now it's coming into Sovreignty issues, the real high cards are now being pulled out......... maybe even the ace of aces shortly....... Lesse,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Very sad.................

[HUAHIN62]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

When a government gives another police force the authority to investigate a crime they can do so outside their area of jurisdiction. An example of this is the little British girl that disappeared in Portugal. Another would be the DEA in Mexico and there is many more.

If the Thai police have nothing to hide why are they so jittery about other people checking if they have the correct people behind bars. If the Thai government back down now they will come under more international pressure and they will lose plenty of face. The real reason for the backtracking after promises was made by the junta leader is the the pressure the nationalists are putting on him. Yesterday on one page in the Bangkok post you had a story about the PM saying they will investigate and just down the page the National Commisioner of police saying the opposite. It doesn't matter what they do they already have lost the trust and support of the majority of Thai's. If they don't allow the British investigation they will be viewed as covering up and if they allow the investigation the truth will come out.

[kinmaew]

"You farang go Pattaya few days we call you if find something you need"

[heyexile]

The families of Thailand murder victims Hannah Witheridge and David Miller have been invited to help secure death sentences for the suspects ....

Justice officials said the grieving parents can team up with prosecutors to file joint murder charges against two Burmese migrant workers ....

The quirk of Thai law means murder victims families can hire lawyers and investigators who could turn up additional evidence or testimony.

However, such cases are rare because of the hefty costs.

The offer was made by the prosecutor in charge of the case.....

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798695/families-thai-murder-victims-invited-secure-death-sentences-suspects-despite-concerns-ve-framed.html#ixzz3GZ73UP00

But surely that is a two way street, can't the families also introduce evidence to the contrary of what the police have submitted?

Can you imagine the awesome Thai forces with unlimited resources that would hinder them?

How are these poor grief-stricken parents going to have a chance to find the truth?

It would need to be other family members somehow with huge resources. This is a sick attempt at news management by Thai `authorities` and I hope it backfires on them ie funds raised, investigators, recommended by HMG and Brit pol, and top-notch lawyers hired etc

[IAMSOBAD]

Liar Liar Pants On Fire.

[Sviss Geez]

With the language differences it will be tough for the Britcops to get to the truth....unless of course the Britcops picked to come speak and read Thai!

Have you never heard of translators/interpreters?