Thaksin gained most from coup, Chalerm claims

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Prayut is not stupid enough to do such a thing because one day he has to step down and continue living in the country. It is unlikely he would do anything which brings negative consequences onto himself."

This would definitely be considered a "veiled threat"!

I wonder how Prayuth will react to it?

It is reality.

Prayuth has mounted a tiger, if he ever wants to dismount without being devoured, there a certain things that he cannot do.

The General, though he appears not to realise it, is in a truly unenviable position.

Thaksin on the other hand, is sitting pretty.

Chalerm had a case to make but his comments don't support it.Most of us will have recognised his errors and illogicalities.Interestingly he attaches much more reliance on Thaksin personally than reality justifies (perhaps reflecting his godfather mentality).In my view Thaksin has no further personal role in Thai politics other than his current indirect one.So in short one can dismiss Chalerm's meanderings.

But there is a case that Thaksin has "won" or rather that the old order has lost - even against the background of current events which might seem to demonstrate the opposite.What's happening in Thailand is hardly unique - a shift of power from established elites to a wider grouping.In UK this happened in the mid nineteenth century and thereafter.There was a historic compromise in which the old order was allowed to retain wealth and influence.The British upper classes showed intelligence and enlightened self interest in the way that their Thai equivalents generally have not.In fact the latter have generally shown extreme stupidity.The real objective of the Junta and its backers is to root out "Thaksinism".I don't really understand how this will be done.One can exile the man in established Thai tradition and ban his family/friends/associates from office - but to repress the forces he stood for is impossible, like King Canute commanding the sea to retreat.For many including me it's irritating that such a man as Thaksin - vain, overbearing and corrupt - holds this role.But hold it he does and he has changed the course of Thai politics forever.But ultimately his role is just that of a catalyst.

So you call thaksin the new order? Heaven forbid. General please stay 10 years at a minimum.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Why does Chalerm even make these statements? "Chalerm believes there are only two scenarios that could lead to a Pheu Thai defeat: Thaksin dies or quits politics."


Didn't Thaksin assert that he was finished with politics? Or, is was this a lie?

Terminalogical inexactitude.

An honest mistake.

[jayboy]

Prayut is not stupid enough to do such a thing because one day he has to step down and continue living in the country. It is unlikely he would do anything which brings negative consequences onto himself."

This would definitely be considered a "veiled threat"!

I wonder how Prayuth will react to it?

It is reality.

Prayuth has mounted a tiger, if he ever wants to dismount without being devoured, there a certain things that he cannot do.

The General, though he appears not to realise it, is in a truly unenviable position.

Thaksin on the other hand, is sitting pretty.

Sitting pretty but impotently in the desert, counting the grains of sand as the years go by and he's still no nearer to coming home. All he can do is hope Prayud fails abysmally so come the next election the north and Issan are still loyal to his sad bunch of minions.

Don't you red supporters feel ashamed that someone like Chalerm, a perfect example of the Thai patronage system at its worst, is his main supporter?

I like your image of Thaksin sitting in the desert counting grains of sand.It summons up another desert image of the vaingloriousness of power, beautifully summed up by Shelley:

I met a traveller from an antique land,

Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone

Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,

Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,

And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,

Tell that its sculptor well those passions read

Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,

The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;

And on the pedestal, these words appear:

My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!

Nothing beside remains. Round the decay

Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare

The lone and level sands stretch far away.”

Many of the key Thai players should reflect on this but of course they are incapable of it.

[ezzra]

Depend how you look at it.. it's akin to someone who get the shit belted out of him only to

find comfort in the fact that now he can have the bruises to show that he survived such beating...

Not being charged with anything YET, means nothing, the statute of limitations on such chargers

last for years and who know down the road someone will decide to press charges....

[jayboy]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Chalerm had a case to make but his comments don't support it.Most of us will have recognised his errors and illogicalities.Interestingly he attaches much more reliance on Thaksin personally than reality justifies (perhaps reflecting his godfather mentality).In my view Thaksin has no further personal role in Thai politics other than his current indirect one.So in short one can dismiss Chalerm's meanderings.

But there is a case that Thaksin has "won" or rather that the old order has lost - even against the background of current events which might seem to demonstrate the opposite.What's happening in Thailand is hardly unique - a shift of power from established elites to a wider grouping.In UK this happened in the mid nineteenth century and thereafter.There was a historic compromise in which the old order was allowed to retain wealth and influence.The British upper classes showed intelligence and enlightened self interest in the way that their Thai equivalents generally have not.In fact the latter have generally shown extreme stupidity.The real objective of the Junta and its backers is to root out "Thaksinism".I don't really understand how this will be done.One can exile the man in established Thai tradition and ban his family/friends/associates from office - but to repress the forces he stood for is impossible, like King Canute commanding the sea to retreat.For many including me it's irritating that such a man as Thaksin - vain, overbearing and corrupt - holds this role.But hold it he does and he has changed the course of Thai politics forever.But ultimately his role is just that of a catalyst.

So you call thaksin the new order? Heaven forbid. General please stay 10 years at a minimum.

You have either failed to read or badly misunderstood what I wrote.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I note that Prayut's strategy of ending the old style politics and bringing reconciliation is having the effects (lack of) many of us expected.

You expect it all to be sorted in 5 months?

[MisterTee]

Why does Chalerm even make these statements? "Chalerm believes there are only two scenarios that could lead to a Pheu Thai defeat: Thaksin dies or quits politics."

Didn't Thaksin assert that he was finished with politics? Or, is was this a lie?

Scenario #1 might be seen as desirable by many of the players in this game.

[casindonet]

Why is this clown still in the news??

[bkkbudddy]

Greetings,

"Long live Prime Minister Prayut Chan-O-Cha!"

[crazykopite]

In two years time we will still be waiting for democratic elections it ain't going to happen regardless of what the unelected PM states

[MisterTee]

Chalerm had a case to make but his comments don't support it.Most of us will have recognised his errors and illogicalities.Interestingly he attaches much more reliance on Thaksin personally than reality justifies (perhaps reflecting his godfather mentality).In my view Thaksin has no further personal role in Thai politics other than his current indirect one.So in short one can dismiss Chalerm's meanderings.

But there is a case that Thaksin has "won" or rather that the old order has lost - even against the background of current events which might seem to demonstrate the opposite.What's happening in Thailand is hardly unique - a shift of power from established elites to a wider grouping.In UK this happened in the mid nineteenth century and thereafter.There was a historic compromise in which the old order was allowed to retain wealth and influence.The British upper classes showed intelligence and enlightened self interest in the way that their Thai equivalents generally have not.In fact the latter have generally shown extreme stupidity.The real objective of the Junta and its backers is to root out "Thaksinism".I don't really understand how this will be done.One can exile the man in established Thai tradition and ban his family/friends/associates from office - but to repress the forces he stood for is impossible, like King Canute commanding the sea to retreat.For many including me it's irritating that such a man as Thaksin - vain, overbearing and corrupt - holds this role.But hold it he does and he has changed the course of Thai politics forever.But ultimately his role is just that of a catalyst.

Excellent post.

Your logic is hard to argue with. Although it is debatable how long the Red Shirt movement would last without Thaksin. The same hypothetical question could be asked about what effect Hitler's removal in the early 1930s would have had on the Nazi Party. How much influence do charismatic personalities have, as opposed to the ideologies they espouse.

Unrelated to the content of your post; allow me to suggest that you use the space bar after your full stops.

Edited October 19, 2014 by MisterTee

[robblok]

An astute and balanced assessment of the situation by one in the know (as evidenced by the below quote).

"Chalerm said the controversial "blanket amnesty" brought an end to the Yingluck government because it (finally) provided the PDRC with a valid reason to overthrow the government".

And just think, if the Yellows had let democracy run it's course, Thaksin would probably have been legitimately voted out of office by now.

But at the cost of Thaksin being acquitted. I like it a lot how it went, because of this amnesty we got the junta. Its the end of the PTP and we will see next election. Even if they win (i still think that is probable) the new constitution will have so many new checks and balances that its not as profitable to be in government as it once was.

So everone is a winner except Thaksin.

But it is good to know that finally even the core of the PTP admits that the junta came to be because of Thaksins selfishness.

[arrowsdawdle]

I'll admit to being sober as I read this interview, but I couldn't swear that Charlem was when gave it.

Did you get a buzz on after reading it?

Edited October 19, 2014 by arrowsdawdle

[mrtoad]

Missed the drunken fools ramblings. He must have been busy or drunk.

[marcusd]

Vietnam gained most from the coup, with international tourists up 21% in the first 6 months of 2014.

Too early to have exact statistics about investments, but these will be up too.

Asia is riddled with idiots (oops I guess the west is too) running the countries. But at least in the west they are more educated and voters have more control. AND THIS FOOL CHALERM is definitely sending signals to business to run and leave or we will take your money.

I was reenlty in Vietnam sourcing a new venture. $1million AUD that would have been invested in Thailand but now COMMUNIST Vietnam looks safer and better. Whilst I was there, and I was only there 6 months ago also on business, I saw HEAPS of foreign investment. English, Australian, Chinese and USA. I do not see them running to Thailand any more.

even my own Thai partner and staff are hoping for ASEAN so they can leave this corrupt place

It is the legacy of THAKSIN, CHALERM the yellows and all of them. GREED GREED GREED

[Robespiere]

An astute and balanced assessment of the situation by one in the know (as evidenced by the below quote).

"Chalerm said the controversial "blanket amnesty" brought an end to the Yingluck government because it (finally) provided the PDRC with a valid reason to overthrow the government".

And just think, if the Yellows had let democracy run it's course, Thaksin would probably have been legitimately voted out of office by now.

But at the cost of Thaksin being acquitted. I like it a lot how it went, because of this amnesty we got the junta. Its the end of the PTP and we will see next election. Even if they win (i still think that is probable) the new constitution will have so many new checks and balances that its not as profitable to be in government as it once was.

So everone is a winner except Thaksin.

But it is good to know that finally even the core of the PTP admits that the junta came to be because of Thaksins selfishness.

The Junta was always going to come to be, amnesty bill or not.

That it took so long for them to finally find an issue to latch on to and exploit is a credit to the way Yingluck performed as PM.

Soon, things will change in this country in a very, very big way.

It is only a matter of time until a true, non-compromised constitution is written and accepted by the people via a referendum.

BTW, the amnesty bill was more an olive branch from the Reds to the Yellows than it was a get out of jail free card for Thaksin (remember Thaksin's sole conviction is extremely dubious whereas the 90 innocents slain in the streets was very real). The bill was an attempt to bring the decade long struggle to an end as peacefully and magnanimously as Mandela ended apartheid with his non-recriminating Truth and Reconciliation process.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Robespiere

[JOC]

An astute and balanced assessment of the situation by one in the know (as evidenced by the below quote).

"Chalerm said the controversial "blanket amnesty" brought an end to the Yingluck government because it (finally) provided the PDRC with a valid reason to overthrow the government".

And just think, if the Yellows had let democracy run it's course, Thaksin would probably have been legitimately voted out of office by now.

The people have the democratic right to protest.

When a govt is trying to pass an amnesty bill for criminals and corrupt politicians because their leader is both they are especially entitled to do so.

The right to protest inept govt and corruption is part of democracy.

"The right to protest inept govt and corruption is part of democracy"

So is voting!!!

Use the ballot-box!!

[mojorison]

I'm going out on a limb here. I think he has assessed the situation astutely. In fact I am surprised by his lucidity. In other words, he is 100% correct.

[ratcatcher]

Missed the drunken fools ramblings. He must have been busy or drunk.

But he does seem to have a taste for superb wines and the wherewithal to buy them. He might be considered classy were it not for the pink Bentley, his previous careers and his frequent boorish, incoherent outbursts.

http://www.bbr.com/producer-400-petrus

[eggers]

When Thaksin's passport is withdrawn as a criminal & his sister, along with her cronies, are impeached/convicted of negligence & dereliction of duty, then, Thailand will freely move fwd.

Otherwise, stagers like Chalerm will continue to wallow in "days of future past" as the song goes!

[Equalizer]

Seems to me most of the ex pats on here have also been brainwashed with the totalitarian takeover attitude to media freedom on political views. When a government in the UK wins a general election (democratically i may add) do you see them go and arrest all the previous party MPs and swear them all into silence. Seems like we once had 10s of thousands of Expats here and now we have 10s of thousands of little Hitlers. The man is making a political statement, this is democracy folks let us get back to our core values and get of this dictatorial band wagon.

[atyclb]

Prayut is not stupid enough to do such a thing because one day he has to step down and continue living in the country. It is unlikely he would do anything which brings negative consequences onto himself."

This would definitely be considered a "veiled threat"!

I wonder how Prayuth will react to it?

If I were Prayuth I'd find him (chalerm) a sponsor at AA

[Gunna]

What he really wanted to say was " Thaksin gained most from the Rice scam " but he new that his share of the ill gotten gains would dry up.

[Eric Loh]

History said Chalerm is right. Reference post '06 coup, PPP won landslide election and again in 2011 by PT. Coup tends to galavanize the support for Thaksin who will close ranks. The neutrals will also tend to take a sympathetic understand of the situation forced upon them and not vote for the Dem or not vote. Take away the hearts and minds of Thaksin supporters are the only chance and that will mean massive populist policies and time. If only the Dem took advantage of the amnesty bill protest, they would have stood a better chance. This coup has not given them any advantage or head start.

[arrowsdawdle]

Chalerm had a case to make but his comments don't support it.Most of us will have recognised his errors and illogicalities.Interestingly he attaches much more reliance on Thaksin personally than reality justifies (perhaps reflecting his godfather mentality).In my view Thaksin has no further personal role in Thai politics other than his current indirect one.So in short one can dismiss Chalerm's meanderings.

But there is a case that Thaksin has "won" or rather that the old order has lost - even against the background of current events which might seem to demonstrate the opposite.What's happening in Thailand is hardly unique - a shift of power from established elites to a wider grouping.In UK this happened in the mid nineteenth century and thereafter.There was a historic compromise in which the old order was allowed to retain wealth and influence.The British upper classes showed intelligence and enlightened self interest in the way that their Thai equivalents generally have not.In fact the latter have generally shown extreme stupidity.The real objective of the Junta and its backers is to root out "Thaksinism".I don't really understand how this will be done.One can exile the man in established Thai tradition and ban his family/friends/associates from office - but to repress the forces he stood for is impossible, like King Canute commanding the sea to retreat.For many including me it's irritating that such a man as Thaksin - vain, overbearing and corrupt - holds this role.But hold it he does and he has changed the course of Thai politics forever.But ultimately his role is just that of a catalyst.

Excellent post.

Your logic is hard to argue with. Although it is debatable how long the Red Shirt movement would last without Thaksin. The same hypothetical question could be asked about what effect Hitler's removal in the early 1930s would have had on the Nazi Party. How much influence do charismatic personalities have, as opposed to the ideologies they espouse.

Unrelated to the content of your post; allow me to suggest that you use the space bar after your full stops.

The point that everyone but Thaksin seems to miss is that empowering and advancing the economic resources of those in poverty does far more than buy votes. It creates a nation of consumers with disposable incomes that get pumped into the national economy; lifting national fiscal health and the quality of life for all instead of a chosen few.

The truly selfish and self-serving are those with influence that keep the Thai population in general poorly educated, linguistically isolated, and believing in ghosts in order to herd them into their factories and incapacitate them from crossing borders to work next year when AEC kicks in.

The truly despicable thing is that the influential schemers are selling out their own populace for personal gain, as the upwardly mobile junior executive positions will become filled by better educated and English-fluent Malaysians, Filipinos, etc.

[robblok]

An astute and balanced assessment of the situation by one in the know (as evidenced by the below quote).

"Chalerm said the controversial "blanket amnesty" brought an end to the Yingluck government because it (finally) provided the PDRC with a valid reason to overthrow the government".

And just think, if the Yellows had let democracy run it's course, Thaksin would probably have been legitimately voted out of office by now.

But at the cost of Thaksin being acquitted. I like it a lot how it went, because of this amnesty we got the junta. Its the end of the PTP and we will see next election. Even if they win (i still think that is probable) the new constitution will have so many new checks and balances that its not as profitable to be in government as it once was.

So everone is a winner except Thaksin.

But it is good to know that finally even the core of the PTP admits that the junta came to be because of Thaksins selfishness.

The Junta was always going to come to be, amnesty bill or not.

That it took so long for them to finally find an issue to latch on to and exploit is a credit to the way Yingluck performed as PM.

Soon, things will change in this country in a very, very big way.

It is only a matter of time until a true, non-compromised constitution is written and accepted by the people via a referendum.

BTW, the amnesty bill was more an olive branch from the Reds to the Yellows than it was a get out of jail free card for Thaksin (remember Thaksin's sole conviction is extremely dubious whereas the 90 innocents slain in the streets was very real). The bill was an attempt to bring the decade long struggle to an end as peacefully and magnanimously as Mandela ended apartheid with his non-recriminating Truth and Reconciliation process.

Its fun to read the red apologies.

Of course the junta would not be here without the massive street protest caused by the amnesty of that criminal. Taksins convictions are real and there are a lot more waiting for him. They should trial him in absentia for those or make sure there is no statue of limitations on them.

The 90 deaths were a result of Thaksins black shirts (we see more and more about this now) and Abisith and Suthep wanted a trial because there is no way they will be convicted for this. Unlike Taksin who hides like a coward for all his charges. (p.s. no love here for Suthep he is a tool that served his purpose bringing down the PTP)

The bill was only for Thaksin.. Abisith did not want to be included. The normal reds would have been freed by now out of jail and such.. But no Thaksin needed to ruin it all. Actually they are rotting in jail because of Thaksin.

Edited October 19, 2014 by robblok

[billsmart]

Drunk and delusional blabbermouth. Nothing he says ever comes to fruition.

Fade into obscurity please.

Sent from my LG-D858

What the hell is an LG-D858?

Sent from my Sony Vaio

[whybother]

Seems to me most of the ex pats on here have also been brainwashed with the totalitarian takeover attitude to media freedom on political views. When a government in the UK wins a general election (democratically i may add) do you see them go and arrest all the previous party MPs and swear them all into silence. Seems like we once had 10s of thousands of Expats here and now we have 10s of thousands of little Hitlers. The man is making a political statement, this is democracy folks let us get back to our core values and get of this dictatorial band wagon.

It seems you're mistaking a coup for an election. When was the last time a government here won an election and arrested any MPs?

[whybother]

Drunk and delusional blabbermouth. Nothing he says ever comes to fruition.

Fade into obscurity please.

Sent from my LG-D858

What the hell is an LG-D858?

Sent from my Sony Vaio

It's an LG phone. What the hell is a Sony Vaio?? (rhetorical question!!)

[Sayonarax]

Lets face it Prayuth has a huge task on his hands and it doesn't help to have drunken fools ranting in nonsensical ways.

If Prayuth ruled with an iron fist he could change LOS quickly, but his softly softly approach is going to take a lot longer!

Softy approach.. kind of goes against my "Cant point a gun at it" theory.

The economy is feeling softies approach all right..