British rights activist to face defamation verdict in Thailand

[Thai at Heart]

Thai court dismisses case against British rights activist

Indeed an adroit Solomon like decision concerning the matter.

One does wonder whether there may have been some lobbying from the international food firms concerning the matter.

However there is still the hurdle of the computer crimes act.

Whether or not this current decision might weaken the computer crimes case (real or imaginary) of course remains to be seen.

If there was no prosecutor involved, presumably those charges will fail. Raises an interesting problem.

This ruling should prevent spurious cases getting to court in that a prosecutor should rule on the merits of the case first.

Anyway, great for him. Screw these companies with their childish cases. Walk the walk instead of hiding behind this useless law.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[tingtongtourist]

If you look at import of Thai seafood in Australia you can understand why the "thawed for your convenience" thai produce is renamed,relabelled to deceive customer.

It just another proof of the greed of Woolworths and Coles and they think number 1..firstly eliminate all labour and then make the skeleton staff work for nothing and strip entitlements tothe bone.

If they can get other countrys to do the chrime of slave labour for their exports they are even more happy as no accountability

They are complicit in the exploitation and every aussie with a concience should ban themself from any business with them.

This is just one example..the way they treat their own staff and producer farmer is a discrace also

[MikePhuket1970]

If the migrant workers agree with the lower then minimum wages and are happy to work for that then what's the problem? As long as they get treated well then i don't see the problem. This is Asia, not Europe.

Europeans have the choice to buy any brand of fruitjuice, expensive ones or cheap ones so if they don't like it then buy another brand from another country.

The way the thais have treated her ?

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/thai-court-awards-tortured-12-year-old-burmese-girl-143k-in-compensation.html

[Number 3]

He's got more chance of geting sh*t out of a rocking horse than justice here, perhaps some one should have told him.

Word is he won today's case. Could justice here be possible here after all ?

If this IS the outcome then congratulations are due to Andy but also to the Thai legal system.

I trust the reports I have received are true. Why am I doubtful?

[RustBucket]

Well. At least we got one judge today making fair and wise decision in freedom of speech case. Bravo

I wouldn't speak too soon.

The judge will have been directed to come up with that verdict because this was a 'criminal case' and would have been a prison term. The verdict doesn't clear him, it was thrown out because of a legal technicality. He hasn't been cleared.

This was supposedly based on the fact that the offending interview was held outside Thailand. Which to me sounds ridiculous. More like they don't want to find him 'not guilty' because that would speak volumes that he was right and a big Thai firm were in the wrong. They equally can't find him guilty because at the moment Thailand is under massive human rights scrutiny that throwing a human rights worker from the west into jail for speaking out, is just going to make them look incredibly bad and they will certainly receive huge negative press internationally and totally piss off the human rights community which will return to bite them in the ass.

So this decision was a tactical move to avoid imprisoning him, and getting heat from the international community, while saving face for the Thai company involved.

The computer crime infringements will be another hurdle for them, because if he has been charged with it, then they must be saying this was committed inside Thailand, so not so easy to drop it on the same technicality. I assume he will be given nothing more than a fine. I doubt they would dare throw him in prison.

The civil suit is anyone's guess. Maybe there will be a compromise, but if the fruit company lose the suit, then that will open the door for Andy to counter sue for defamation against himself.

[namdocmai]

If the migrant workers agree with the lower then minimum wages and are happy to work for that then what's the problem? As long as they get treated well then i don't see the problem. This is Asia, not Europe.

Europeans have the choice to buy any brand of fruitjuice, expensive ones or cheap ones so if they don't like it then buy another brand from another country.

The way the thais have treated her ?

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/thai-court-awards-tortured-12-year-old-burmese-girl-143k-in-compensation.html

Well of course i'm against slavery or abuse against migrants but as long as they are not harmed, free to stop working, always get paid what was promised, have the right to call the police without fear then i don't see the problem.

[Soiyamoto]

Case dismissed Great news, this man works tirelessly to bring to light working conditions in mayanmar thailand and surrounding countries

[RustBucket]

If the migrant workers agree with the lower then minimum wages and are happy to work for that then what's the problem? As long as they get treated well then i don't see the problem. This is Asia, not Europe.

Europeans have the choice to buy any brand of fruitjuice, expensive ones or cheap ones so if they don't like it then buy another brand from another country.

The way the thais have treated her ?

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/thai-court-awards-tortured-12-year-old-burmese-girl-143k-in-compensation.html

Well of course i'm against slavery or abuse against migrants but as long as they are not harmed, free to stop working, always get paid what was promised, have the right to call the police without fear then i don't see the problem.

The whole point that Andy was trying to make was that Migrant workers in Thailand are treated completely different to Thais.

They are paid much less than the minimum wage, child labour, unreasonably long hours, they have no rights of complaint and no legal protection. They can leave their job yes.... But they will just get the same treatment everywhere in Thailand.

Andy just held up the National Foods case as an example of what is widespread across Thailand and is a pretty disingenuous display of lack of human rights to be treated equally and not some sort of commodity to be used and abused.

Regardless of whether this is Europe or not. The European public rely on this exact sort of exposure for them to even begin to exercise their ability to choose which produce they want to and not want to buy. If it not reported on by the likes of Andy Hall. Then how are they expected to base that decision?

The world market has a fundamental right to know if what they are buying, they are indirectly sponsoring this sort of disgusting abuse.

If you don't treat your migrant workers the same as your national citizens, then you are abusing them.

Personally I think the world needs to kick Thailand up the arse by giving then say a 2 year international export ban via the UN to shock this country into real action. Because as long as the west keep on buying, then the Thai attitude will continue to 'cover up' their acts rather than 'clean up' their acts.

Edited October 29, 2014 by RustBucket

[NanLaew]

Natural Fruit have lost face. To a farang. They are appealing the court decision.

Watch this space...

(watch your back Andy)

Edited October 29, 2014 by NanLaew

[Thai at Heart]

If the migrant workers agree with the lower then minimum wages and are happy to work for that then what's the problem? As long as they get treated well then i don't see the problem. This is Asia, not Europe.

Europeans have the choice to buy any brand of fruitjuice, expensive ones or cheap ones so if they don't like it then buy another brand from another country.

The way the thais have treated her ?

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/thai-court-awards-tortured-12-year-old-burmese-girl-143k-in-compensation.html

Well of course i'm against slavery or abuse against migrants but as long as they are not harmed, free to stop working, always get paid what was promised, have the right to call the police without fear then i don't see the problem.

The whole point that Andy was trying to make was that Migrant workers in Thailand are treated completely different to Thais.

They are paid much less than the minimum wage, they have no rights of complaint and no legal protection. They can leave their job yes.... But they will just get the same treatment everywhere in Thailand.

Andy just held up the National Foods case as an example of what is widespread across Thailand and is a pretty disingenuous display of lack of human rights to be treated equally and not some sort of commodity to be used and abused.

Regardless of whether this is Europe or not. The European public rely on this exact sort of exposure for them to even begin to exercise their ability to choose which produce they want to and not want to buy. If it not reported on by the likes of Andy Hall. Then how are they expected to base that decision?

The world market has a fundamental right to know if what they are buying, they are indirectly sponsoring this sort of disgusting abuse.

To be cynical about it, this is all about a fait market. There may well be a company out there that pays the proper wage and does the right thing, but its product is more expensive and thus doesn't have as much business.

Thus, paying under the legal minimum is cheating the market. Funny this. Free marketeering being only implemented if everyone plays by the rules and regs.

The owners of this company have been making excessive profit. That is unfair. Simple.

[Thai at Heart]

Natural Fruit have lost face. To a farang. They are appealing the court decision.

Watch this space...

Appealing a dismissed case.

Only in Thailand.

[RustBucket]

Well of course i'm against slavery or abuse against migrants but as long as they are not harmed, free to stop working, always get paid what was promised, have the right to call the police without fear then i don't see the problem.

The whole point that Andy was trying to make was that Migrant workers in Thailand are treated completely different to Thais.

They are paid much less than the minimum wage, they have no rights of complaint and no legal protection. They can leave their job yes.... But they will just get the same treatment everywhere in Thailand.

Andy just held up the National Foods case as an example of what is widespread across Thailand and is a pretty disingenuous display of lack of human rights to be treated equally and not some sort of commodity to be used and abused.

Regardless of whether this is Europe or not. The European public rely on this exact sort of exposure for them to even begin to exercise their ability to choose which produce they want to and not want to buy. If it not reported on by the likes of Andy Hall. Then how are they expected to base that decision?

The world market has a fundamental right to know if what they are buying, they are indirectly sponsoring this sort of disgusting abuse.

To be cynical about it, this is all about a fait market. There may well be a company out there that pays the proper wage and does the right thing, but its product is more expensive and thus doesn't have as much business.

Thus, paying under the legal minimum is cheating the market. Funny this. Free marketeering being only implemented if everyone plays by the rules and regs.

The owners of this company have been making excessive profit. That is unfair. Simple.

I agree.

That is why Andy actually chose this as an example.

Cheap has a high price.

That's why this needed to be exposed, so the western markets can make their decision whether they want to trade with these people or not.

Now let's see if this next charge results in a similar ruling.

The last thing Thailand wants is the western markets putting the spotlight back on this.

National Foods wants to watch their <deleted>. If Andy goes down, nobody in the west will trade with them again. It will be game over (i hope).

[Thai at Heart]

Well of course i'm against slavery or abuse against migrants but as long as they are not harmed, free to stop working, always get paid what was promised, have the right to call the police without fear then i don't see the problem.

The whole point that Andy was trying to make was that Migrant workers in Thailand are treated completely different to Thais.

They are paid much less than the minimum wage, they have no rights of complaint and no legal protection. They can leave their job yes.... But they will just get the same treatment everywhere in Thailand.

Andy just held up the National Foods case as an example of what is widespread across Thailand and is a pretty disingenuous display of lack of human rights to be treated equally and not some sort of commodity to be used and abused.

Regardless of whether this is Europe or not. The European public rely on this exact sort of exposure for them to even begin to exercise their ability to choose which produce they want to and not want to buy. If it not reported on by the likes of Andy Hall. Then how are they expected to base that decision?

The world market has a fundamental right to know if what they are buying, they are indirectly sponsoring this sort of disgusting abuse.

To be cynical about it, this is all about a fait market. There may well be a company out there that pays the proper wage and does the right thing, but its product is more expensive and thus doesn't have as much business.

Thus, paying under the legal minimum is cheating the market. Funny this. Free marketeering being only implemented if everyone plays by the rules and regs.

The owners of this company have been making excessive profit. That is unfair. Simple.

I agree.

That is why Andy actually chose this as an example.

Cheap has a high price.

That's why this needed to be exposed, so the western markets can make their decision whether they want to trade with these people or not.

Now let's see if this next charge results in a similar ruling.

The last thing Thailand wants is the western markets putting the spotlight back on this.

National Foods wants to watch their <deleted>. If Andy goes down, nobody in the west will trade with them again. It will be game over (i hope).

Apparently the ownership are staunch democrat supporters. They won't be happy to lose this, but I am sorry,times change.

The world is a small place these days and most consumers would rather not buy products produced from exploitation.

If the Thais don't like it, they can just go home and leave our markets right?

[RustBucket]

The whole point that Andy was trying to make was that Migrant workers in Thailand are treated completely different to Thais.

They are paid much less than the minimum wage, they have no rights of complaint and no legal protection. They can leave their job yes.... But they will just get the same treatment everywhere in Thailand.

Andy just held up the National Foods case as an example of what is widespread across Thailand and is a pretty disingenuous display of lack of human rights to be treated equally and not some sort of commodity to be used and abused.

Regardless of whether this is Europe or not. The European public rely on this exact sort of exposure for them to even begin to exercise their ability to choose which produce they want to and not want to buy. If it not reported on by the likes of Andy Hall. Then how are they expected to base that decision?

The world market has a fundamental right to know if what they are buying, they are indirectly sponsoring this sort of disgusting abuse.

To be cynical about it, this is all about a fait market. There may well be a company out there that pays the proper wage and does the right thing, but its product is more expensive and thus doesn't have as much business.

Thus, paying under the legal minimum is cheating the market. Funny this. Free marketeering being only implemented if everyone plays by the rules and regs.

The owners of this company have been making excessive profit. That is unfair. Simple.

I agree.

That is why Andy actually chose this as an example.

Cheap has a high price.

That's why this needed to be exposed, so the western markets can make their decision whether they want to trade with these people or not.

Now let's see if this next charge results in a similar ruling.

The last thing Thailand wants is the western markets putting the spotlight back on this.

National Foods wants to watch their <deleted>. If Andy goes down, nobody in the west will trade with them again. It will be game over (i hope).

Apparently the ownership are staunch democrat supporters. They won't be happy to lose this, but I am sorry,times change.

The world is a small place these days and most consumers would rather not buy products produced from exploitation.

If the Thais don't like it, they can just go home and leave our markets right?

Yes.. But it won't be a case of Thailand leaving our markets. It will be a case of our markets leaving Thailand.

Correct consumers won't want to buy products produced from exploitation. But it won't be so much as the consumer doing the damage directly to Thailand. It will be the consumers putting pressure on the big supermarkets. It will be the big chain stores that will boycott Thailand to keep their consumers happy and on board.

Which is why Carforre suspended its orders of seafood if I remember correctly. The supermarkets recognise that their customers don't want to have to walk around their stores squinting at every label to see where it is from. They rely on the supermarket to do that for them.

[Kru Baa]

As far as the Thais are concerned, telling the truth about Thailand is defamation. I wouldn't want to be in that guys shoes. If he is trying to win his case with logic and factual evidence well, I think most readers on this forum know how well that works out in the LOS.

[Kru Baa]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"In June the US State Department downgraded Thailand to its lowest ranking in a report on human trafficking, highlighting abuses in the fisheries industry among others. "

......so maybe better sue the US State Department too..............???

I'm sure they will complain to the U.S. embassy just like they do when some comedian or television show from the states makes fun of them.

[GarryP]

The decision seems very strange to me and reached as a mater of expedience rather than logic. I am sure that there are many cases of people supposedly defaming Thais or Thai institutions when overseas, and when they returned to Thailand were subject to arrest, fines and possibly imprisonment.

This decision is saying you can go overseas and say what you want with no repercussions. Political considerations are definitely behind this decision.

Having said that, none of the cases against this rights activist should have been accepted to begin with.

As part of the reform process they need to get rid of these defamation statutes and make it purely civil matter.

[BestBitterPhuket]

This will be huge, internationally. I hope Thailand grows up a bit and does the right thing: removing these draconian defamation laws.

These laws are nothing but a tool for the elite to use to oppress the poor, working class and middle class. Thailand will never be a better place unless they change things like this.

[razer]

One step in the right direction for Thailand's image abroad.

[Jonmarleesco]

One up for common sense, then, one down for Thailand's obfuscatory defamation laws.

[maidee]

after the messy murder case involving brits, a prison sentence for another brit, might just shut down a bigger part of the tourism business

[tartempion]

This will be huge, internationally. I hope Thailand grows up a bit and does the right thing: removing these draconian defamation laws.

They'll have to grow up more than a bit to get rid of the defamation laws, it's all about face. How many years will it take for an adult decision to be made by a primary school kid?

I don't get this remark: my 3,5 young 100% Thai girl makes daily adult decisions! she is raised partially Thai, partially Western, not sure the Thai part is even really Thai neither.

More people raised like her will change this retarded country.

[Dogmatix]

Let us hope this small victory over stupid Thai defamationlaws are the first of many to follow!!

And best of all, it actually proves that foreigners can win in Thai courts!!

He didn't win but the the case was thrown out on technical grounds. He is still facing serious charges under the ridiculous Computer Crimes Act that was supposedly intended to protect people from cyber fraud and a large civil suit.

Andy still needs a lot of support. I believe there is a defence fund for him with details on his website.

The irony is that his work is in the interests of Thailand and the government should recognise that and give him full support. All of Thailand's Western trading partners believe that the exploitation of foreign labour in Thailand is a serious problem and, if nothing is done, Thailand will suffer. There is nothing unique about Thailand's export products, all of which can be sourced elsewhere for the same or cheaper prices. Even 'Thai" jasmine rice is grown in the US and Vietnam.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Dogmatix

[micmichd]

Can someone please remind Farangs that plea bargaining is normal procedure in their home countries, too?

[micmichd]

What is wrong with dismissing a case?

Can someone please remind Farangs that plea bargaining is normal procedure in their home countries, too?

[Bluespunk]

What is wrong with dismissing a case?

Can someone please remind Farangs that plea bargaining is normal procedure in their home countries, too?

As is freedom of speech and the right to investigate companies exploiting their workers without fear of ridiculous defamation charges.

[namdocmai]

I m pretty sure that Andy will not go to jail in Thailand. If they do that they can forget the European market. After the scandal with the abused/distorted prawnfood fishermen they better be carefull now or will get a total boycot on thai produce.

It was the same with Bangladesh where the employees had to work in that very dangerous factory which collapsed. Now our government is still busy fighting for the rights of Bangla workers and company's who still order their clothes from there get defamated openly in our newspapers.

I bet thailand doesn't want to go that way.

Edited October 29, 2014 by namdocmai

[micmichd]

If you take a clear stand, you will always run the risk of stepping on someone's feet, and this one will try to get you for defamation.

But dismissing a case is the legal way to call a charge silly.

[wabothai]

National food, the outcome serves you right.

[binjalin]

where is DJJAMIE saying this is sooooooooooooo bad it must be a mistake?