A Timely Warning To All !

[femi fan]

You're a total <deleted> loser if you drive drunk. You endanger everyone on the road when you do. I don't care what you do to yourself, but stay off the road when you're drunk.

Get a room, take a baht bus, take a tuk-tuk, have someone else drive you, whatever you have to do. Stop being an irresponsible selfish <deleted>.

Otherwise, the best that can happen to all of you who drive drunk is that natural selection runs its course and removes you from the planet before you kill innocent people.

Could you let the forum know how we are to measure whether someone is 'drunk'?

You are displaying a deliberate wish for people to die, at least the drunk driver didn't actually mean to kill anyone. He or she may have been very stupid climbing back into his car - but perhaps that wasn't the plan, but under the influence he wasn't able to think clearly and thought he'd manage to drive home.

But meanwhile you are wishing for people to die. I wonder which action is worse?

[Konini]

Anyone drink driving doesn't actually mean to kill anyone, but it is not only negligent but a wanton disregard for the lives of others to do something - anything - that makes a collision more likely to happen than if you were not; I say collision purposefully, as most 'accidents' can truly be avoided - there are few genuine accidents, most collisions occur because of carelessness, negligence or a big overestimate of driving ability.

In England, I can't remember if it is a specific offense to cause death by driving - that is; not an accident, but where your behaviour or actions caused or significantly contributed to it. In Australia it's called culpable driving.

[binjalin]

many of us have done it - now it's time to stop and if this reduces damage and death on the roads so be it. I now keep a room in town near the bars so I stop being stupid and ride home in the early hours

[mccw]

Anyone drink driving doesn't actually mean to kill anyone, but it is not only negligent but a wanton disregard for the lives of others to do something - anything - that makes a collision more likely to happen than if you were not; I say collision purposefully, as most 'accidents' can truly be avoided - there are few genuine accidents, most collisions occur because of carelessness, negligence or a big overestimate of driving ability.

In England, I can't remember if it is a specific offense to cause death by driving - that is; not an accident, but where your behaviour or actions caused or significantly contributed to it. In Australia it's called culpable driving.

Death by dangerous driving is an offence yes. People can go to jail for it.

I think it is in Thailand too if some one clearly The wrong.

[FolkGuitar]

Wow, so many replies and in a lot of cases some rather big piss fights. To me (And maybe others) its quite simple really. If you cant do the time then dont do the crime. Whatever the drink driving rules are in Thailand, abide by them and you should have nothing to worry about. If you break them and get caught. ..don't start crying about it. And I might add, if you dont like or agree with the rules/law then go somewhere where you do agree with the laws. And good luck with your search. I just hope no one gets injured or maimed by a drunk driver. Its not good for anyone.

If a law on the statute books is broken by probably all sectors of a society then it's well worth questioning what such a law is doing there in the first place. Nobody, except a bunch of imported conservatives, really seems to care much about this law.

The law is not broken by all sectors of a society.

It is broken by a few selfish individuals who can be found in all sectors of society.

This is a big difference.

Nobody, except a bunch of imported conservatives, really seems to care much about this law.

It's odd, but I would word this as 'Nobody except a bunch of self-centered people who care more for drinking than for human life, seem to selfishly disregard this law." Funny how we seem to see things differently.

I'll drink, but I won't drive afterwards, no matter how little "I think" my abilities have been diminished, because I know that "my" thinking ability has been diminished as well. It's been proven in laboratories in a dozen different countries time and time again.

You'll drink, and then drive, believing erroneously, that for whatever reason, you don't come under the same physiological imperatives as the rest of the human species. No one is suggesting that you are drunk after a few beers. But your reaction time, judgement, and thinking certainly are impaired. You just don't give a shit about that fact.

[philw]

Wow, so many replies and in a lot of cases some rather big piss fights. To me (And maybe others) its quite simple really. If you cant do the time then dont do the crime. Whatever the drink driving rules are in Thailand, abide by them and you should have nothing to worry about. If you break them and get caught. ..don't start crying about it. And I might add, if you dont like or agree with the rules/law then go somewhere where you do agree with the laws. And good luck with your search. I just hope no one gets injured or maimed by a drunk driver. Its not good for anyone.

If a law on the statute books is broken by probably all sectors of a society then it's well worth questioning what such a law is doing there in the first place. Nobody, except a bunch of imported conservatives, really seems to care much about this law.

The law is not broken by all sectors of a society.

It is broken by a few selfish individuals who can be found in all sectors of society.

This is a big difference.

Nobody, except a bunch of imported conservatives, really seems to care much about this law.

It's odd, but I would word this as 'Nobody except a bunch of self-centered people who care more for drinking than for human life, seem to selfishly disregard this law." Funny how we seem to see things differently.

I'll drink, but I won't drive afterwards, no matter how little "I think" my abilities have been diminished, because I know that "my" thinking ability has been diminished as well. It's been proven in laboratories in a dozen different countries time and time again.

You'll drink, and then drive, believing erroneously, that for whatever reason, you don't come under the same physiological imperatives as the rest of the human species. No one is suggesting that you are drunk after a few beers. But your reaction time, judgement, and thinking certainly are impaired. You just don't give a shit about that fact.

Funny that your good friend and accompanying musician ( sort of ) regularly has nights out with you and drives home well over the legal limit, if not totally totaled..............with your full knowledge .

Any comment on knowingly letting your friends drive drunk ??

When perhaps, being sober,you could drive them or arrange a taxi ??

The smell is either sulphur or hypocrisy but neither obstruct the flow of good old sanctimonious self righteousness............

[FolkGuitar]

Wow, so many replies and in a lot of cases some rather big piss fights. To me (And maybe others) its quite simple really. If you cant do the time then dont do the crime. Whatever the drink driving rules are in Thailand, abide by them and you should have nothing to worry about. If you break them and get caught. ..don't start crying about it. And I might add, if you dont like or agree with the rules/law then go somewhere where you do agree with the laws. And good luck with your search. I just hope no one gets injured or maimed by a drunk driver. Its not good for anyone.

If a law on the statute books is broken by probably all sectors of a society then it's well worth questioning what such a law is doing there in the first place. Nobody, except a bunch of imported conservatives, really seems to care much about this law.

The law is not broken by all sectors of a society.

It is broken by a few selfish individuals who can be found in all sectors of society.

This is a big difference.

Nobody, except a bunch of imported conservatives, really seems to care much about this law.

It's odd, but I would word this as 'Nobody except a bunch of self-centered people who care more for drinking than for human life, seem to selfishly disregard this law." Funny how we seem to see things differently.

I'll drink, but I won't drive afterwards, no matter how little "I think" my abilities have been diminished, because I know that "my" thinking ability has been diminished as well. It's been proven in laboratories in a dozen different countries time and time again.

You'll drink, and then drive, believing erroneously, that for whatever reason, you don't come under the same physiological imperatives as the rest of the human species. No one is suggesting that you are drunk after a few beers. But your reaction time, judgement, and thinking certainly are impaired. You just don't give a shit about that fact.

Funny that your good friend and accompanying musician ( sort of ) regularly has nights out with you and drives home well over the legal limit, if not totally totaled..............with your full knowledge .

Any comment on knowingly letting your friends drive drunk ??

When perhaps, being sober,you could drive them or arrange a taxi ??

The smell is either sulphur or hypocrisy but neither obstruct the flow of good old sanctimonious self righteousness............

I'll be happy to comment.

1. I have NEVER been out in the evening drinking with my musician friend. He does go out drinking, but I've never been with him when he does. NOT ONCE. This would make it somewhat difficult for me to drive him anywhere or arrange a taxi for him. Please get your facts straight. You come off sounding rather foolish attacking me with blanks. Again.

2. He DID drive home in the past, but realized quite a while ago just how much he was endangering others and now takes a room in town when he's been drinking. He no longer drives when he drinks. And, having realized just how often he was drinking, took steps to understand his need for it, and got it under control. He no longer drinks every night. Tell me... can you say the same?

3. This one is correct. He did tell me that he had been drinking, and he did tell me that he used to drive home. So I guess I do have full knowledge of his actions. So what? I have knowledge of your actions too. So what?

He's a grown-up. He's responsible for himself. And now he's taking responsibility for his actions by acting responsibly. Tell me... can you say the same?

He got his act together, and no longer is a danger to himself or innocent bystanders.

You, on the other hand, probably never will realize that there are other people to be considered. And to paraphrase your ending line;

The smell is bullshit but won't obstruct your repeatedly impotent aggression and feeble assaults.

Whooooooooosh! A swing and a miss... again. Don't you get tired of it?

[hml367]

Some people never do any wrong..... it depends on WHO is defining what is right and what is wrong.... just read all the posts in this thread.

[Nignoy]

In Australia they have a saying: if you drink and drive, you're a bloody idiot, and that sums it all....

Lets be truthful about drunk driving,there is no excuse for it anywhere!!,we used to live in country queensland,deaths due to drunk driving were a regular occurance,parents turn a blind eye to their teenage children binge drinking, one omly has to look at schoolies weeks on the coast , where 1000,s of 16/17 year old children invade popular holiday towns with the sole purpose of getting drunk or high and of course as much interaction with the opposite sex as they can get, in many of the smaller hamlets it is a common sight to see policecars parked behind pubs at the weekend, I got into serious trouble a few years ago,for trying to get a photo printed in the local rag of police cars parked behind the an isolated local pub,we have been living in serious beer drinking country (Bavaria) for the last 6months in the small town of Donauworth, great local beers ,but most of all a charitable group for a small donation will run you and your car home, the pub landlords treat it as their responsibility to get you home safely,

[femi fan]

You'll drink, and then drive, believing erroneously, that for whatever reason, you don't come under the same physiological imperatives as the rest of the human species. No one is suggesting that you are drunk after a few beers. But your reaction time, judgement, and thinking certainly are impaired. You just don't give a shit about that fact.

Boy oh boy, some people will never get it, seemingly being so wrapped up in their own belief systems and confusing them for self-evident truths they then push onto the rest of society.

Let's make this clear, perhaps the fault's been mine, perhaps i've not been clear enough:

I may have three big bottles of beer in two or three hours. A nice social evening, dinner, chit chat, and some beers. Absolutely nowhere near being a fraction drunk. Maybe my reaction time and judgment has been impaired. That is a maybe, not definitely, as you and others so like to state as some kind of irrefutable fact. But here's the real kicker, let's assume you are right and yes, my reaction time has been reduced. Well mate, reduced from what to what?? And, another kicker, how fast am i going and how close am i to the car in front of me??

You see mate, perhaps my pre-three-beer drinking my reaction time is 'very good'. Perhaps your reaction time is only 'good'. After my three beers with food in three hours maybe my reaction time has become reduced to 'good'. I am now at the same level of reaction time and judgment as you, and i've drunk three beers, and you've drunk nothing.

Everything is relative, so when you come along with your hard and fast 'facts' and laws and research studies and all that malarkey, what does it actually all mean???

And when someone has a cold or the flu, surely their reaction time has become reduced, so they are a liability to other human life. Same goes for using mobile phones, getting old, changing cds, and so on. See my earlier longer list. I really hope you never drive a car when under the influence of illness because if you do you are an arch hypocrite. All you do is bleat reaction times mindlessly.

"You just don't give a shit about that fact."

Another one of your facts is it?? How do you know this??

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun FolkGuitar,

Please be aware that those of us who value, and admire, you ... even those, like this bifurcated entity, who have not had the pleasure of meeting you in the flesh in this life, yet ... will ignore attempts at casting aspersions on your character in the same way we ignore a bad smell emanating from some underground nastiness underneath a sidewalk we happen to be unfortunate enough to walk by while inhaling.

The hand that holds the brush that paints another as a hypocrite, well: our experience is that hand is seldom connected to a brain, or a heart.

~o:37;

[femi fan]

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun FolkGuitar,

Please be aware that those of us who value, and admire, you ... even those, like this bifurcated entity, who have not had the pleasure of meeting you in the flesh in this life, yet ... will ignore attempts at casting aspersions on your character in the same way we ignore a bad smell emanating from some underground nastiness underneath a sidewalk we happen to be unfortunate enough to walk by while inhaling.

The hand that holds the brush that paints another as a hypocrite, well: our experience is that hand is seldom connected to a brain, or a heart.

~o:37;

Communciation is about context: situation plus communicators. My communication with folkguitar is like for like with him. You are altering that. I'm sure he has no problems with my replies to him, only that me and him don't agree on this topic. Many more are sailing in his boat than mine, but nevertheless i'm hardly casting aspersions on his character, i don't even know him. I'm debating the topic, not the man. But to say someone is a hypocrite, my, just about every single walking human being is a hypocrite, it's a human trait. But it's worth reminding those who are insisting on judging other humans for their actions.

You may of course have not been referring to me, but then it's not clear. But i am like a fish who got trawled in your net!

And i have many people i admire but does that mean we have no differences of opinions?

It's dangerous ground when we start defending people we know and like rather than sticking with the debate at hand. The debate here is booze and driving, not the posters.

Edited November 6, 2014 by femi fan

[orang37]

"You may of course have not been referring to me, but then it's not clear. But i am like a fish who got trawled in your net!:"

That brings to mind the refrain of that wonderful Carly Simon song, "You're So Vain:"

"I'll bet you think this song is about you ... don't you, don't you?"

~o:37;

[FolkGuitar]

Boy oh boy, some people will never get it, seemingly being so wrapped up in their own belief systems and confusing them for self-evident truths they then push onto the rest of society.

It's not my belief system. It's science. I didn't invent it. I didn't even participate in the hundreds of studies done about. I just read the results. They speak for themselves.

I may have three big bottles of beer in two or three hours. A nice social evening, dinner, chit chat, and some beers. Absolutely nowhere near being a fraction drunk.

Gosh! That's exactly what I said in my post! Glad we agree.

Maybe my reaction time and judgment has been impaired. That is a maybe, not definitely, as you and others so like to state as some kind of irrefutable fact.

No... it's a proven fact. You might not want to believe it, and that's OK. But it IS fact. Unless you are some sort of Super-human (and I don't think that's what you are trying to tell us,) even one drink impairs your ability to think, and it impairs your ability to function. This is why pilots are NOT PERMITTED TO DRINK WITHIN 8 HOURS OF TAKING OFF. 8 hours. Not 3 or 4 while eating a big meal. 8 hours. There is good reason for this. Tell me, would you feel comfortable putting your daughter or your mother on a plane being driven by a man who had three big bottles of beer? Somehow, I doubt it. At least, I'd like to believe that you wouldn't.

After my three beers with food in three hours maybe my reaction time has become reduced to 'good'.

Perhaps it is. But after three bottles of beer you are in no condition to judge yourself. This is one of the biggest reasons people DO drive when intoxicated. They ALL really, really believe that they are fit to drive. Just as you do.

You go on to say "Everything is relative, so when you come along with your hard and fast 'facts' and laws and research studies and all that malarkey, what does it actually all mean???"

It means that we (that's the general public on the street) don't want people driving after they've been drinking. We've seen the results all too often.

You say "I really hope you never drive a car when under the influence of illness because if you do you are an arch hypocrite. "

I wouldn't even consider it. It would be as foolish of me to think that my illness doesn't impair my abilities as it is for you to think that drinking doesn't impair your driving abilities. I'm not that foolish, thanks.

The difference is; I realize this. You don't. I care about the possible outcome. You don't.

You ask how I know this? Are you joking? You keep proving it to us post after post! You continue to defend you driving after drinking. That's how I know this. Unless, of course, you actually don't drive after drinking, and your posts are all bravado. If that's the case, I apologize.

[Chiengmaijoe]

It's safer to drink AND drive!

Edited November 6, 2014 by Chiengmaijoe

[femi fan]

I wouldn't even consider it. It would be as foolish of me to think that my illness doesn't impair my abilities as it is for you to think that drinking doesn't impair your driving abilities. I'm not that foolish, thanks.

The difference is; I realize this. You don't. I care about the possible outcome. You don't.

You ask how I know this? Are you joking? You keep proving it to us post after post! You continue to defend you driving after drinking. That's how I know this. Unless, of course, you actually don't drive after drinking, and your posts are all bravado. If that's the case, I apologize.

Clearly not a hypocrite!

I do realise things, but i don't agree with your hard and fast science studies. But the differing levels of trust we put in science and studies would seriously derail this topic, so can't really go there.

I realise everything you're saying, but i still have one question. You are categorically saying my reaction time and judgment are reduced after three beers, and that due ot the drinking of them i can't notice this. Well, let's say i have the three beers at lunch time, how many hours do you give me before my reaction time is back up to speed?

You cannot rightfully make these claims about how i think and what i care about. You should read my posts more carefully really. You have interpreted and inferred quite a bit over and above what i have said for myself. I'm not proving anything post after post, that is simply your reading of what i'm saying based on your belief system and life experience. You use science to back up what you say, i dispute science. Science is fluid and changes with the times. When the world was flat no doubt it was dangerous to drink too much lest one fall off the edge on the way home...

Of course i care about possible outcomes - i'm the one more likely to kill myself if i drink drive all the time. Yes, i may cause problems to someone else, but my odds are very poor. I like life.

Now i'm not defending anything, so again, please, more accurate reading of my posts. I am making a distinction between drink driving and drunk driving. I don't want to outline all my previous experiences on this forum, but suffice to say i'm talking practice, not theoretical studies here with rats driving cars while on the piss...

I do not drunk drive, and i can say i might drive after one or two beers (which will take me an hour or two), but not very often at all because i don't drink much these days. Last comment is that my posts are not all bravado, and no need to apologise! It's just a debate, albeit one that gets people's emotions going. I'm speaking my mind based on my own hard and fast experiences in life, not any google studies of drunk pigs driving cars thinking they are flying the cars!

[nicksal37]

One evening in October,when I was one third sober,

An'taking home a "load" with manly pride.

My poor feet began to stutter,so I lay down in the gutter,

And a pig came up an'lay down by my side.

Then we sang "It's all fair weather when good fellows get together",

Till a lady passing by was heard to say,

"you can tell a man who "boozes" by the company he chooses"

And the pig got up and slowly walked away.

[FolkGuitar]

I wouldn't even consider it. It would be as foolish of me to think that my illness doesn't impair my abilities as it is for you to think that drinking doesn't impair your driving abilities. I'm not that foolish, thanks.

The difference is; I realize this. You don't. I care about the possible outcome. You don't.

You ask how I know this? Are you joking? You keep proving it to us post after post! You continue to defend you driving after drinking. That's how I know this. Unless, of course, you actually don't drive after drinking, and your posts are all bravado. If that's the case, I apologize.

Clearly not a hypocrite!

I do realise things, but i don't agree with your hard and fast science studies. But the differing levels of trust we put in science and studies would seriously derail this topic, so can't really go there.

I realise everything you're saying, but i still have one question. You are categorically saying my reaction time and judgment are reduced after three beers, and that due ot the drinking of them i can't notice this. Well, let's say i have the three beers at lunch time, how many hours do you give me before my reaction time is back up to speed?

Me? I haven't a clue! The FAA says 8 hours. I'm guessing they base their decision of what the scientists say. And I'm sure there are some scientists who say 8 hours, some that say 7, and probably some that say 5, for all I know. Most pro athletes won't drink the night before competing, giving themselves 10-12 hours alcohol free, and ONLY their livelihoods depend on it, not the health and safety of others.

Of course i care about possible outcomes - i'm the one more likely to kill myself if i drink drive all the time.

See? This is where we differ again. Statistically, a driver who has been drinking is more likely to injure someone else, rather than himself. Now, I'm not a big fan of statistics, but sometimes they are correct.

I am making a distinction between drink driving and drunk driving.

Oh, no question about that! I think everyone (well, perhaps with one exception) agrees that driving while drunk is a serious mistake. No, I'm talking about the person who goes out and has a few drinks during the evening, not someone who is falling down drunk. The ones who believe that because they aren't falling down drunk that they are fit to drive.

As you say, this is just a debate... and emotional one. If we happen to meet, I'll stand you to a beer... as long as your not driving.

Edited November 6, 2014 by FolkGuitar

[nicksal37]

May I add to my last post (167) that I drink like a fish but never drink and drive but do something more dangerous! I let my non drinking Thai wife drive me home!

[femi fan]

Oh, no question about that! I think everyone (well, perhaps with one exception) agrees that driving while drunk is a serious mistake. No, I'm talking about the person who goes out and has a few drinks during the evening, not someone who is falling down drunk. The ones who believe that because they aren't falling down drunk that they are fit to drive.

As you say, this is just a debate... and emotional one. If we happen to meet, I'll stand you to a beer... as long as your not driving.

Wherever possible i have tea or coconut juice now! And i won't talk about this topic, it usually gets heated. Writing about it on a forum is probably not best for me either. But i stand by my points. I would not claim drink driving is safe, but i am saying that relatively speaking some people can drive perfectly safe enough under the influence of a moderately low consumption but which is over very low legal limits.

It's not in the brief of this thread, but i once read about some very intersting research into people driving or using heavy machinery in their jobs while under the influence of marijuana. The research came out of harvard (i think it was this university, but it was certainly a name of this stature), and it had some most interesting results. One was that the effect smoking it had on their ability to use heavy machines or to drive depended on their rate of exposure to the drug. There was huge variance between different members of those tested in the research.

I use that as an example to back up my main point here that people react very differently to things.

I can't remember if you said you'd driven before in your life after drinking, but if you have i wonder how you felt driving home after two or three big bottles of beer? I know you like to quote scientists and the like, but personally i can't give much credence to them. I can have two big bottles in two hours, and be perfectly safe to drive. In fact the law in britain agrees with me. And in fact i can drink four pints of local - weaker - beer in England and still be legally safe to drive (i got tested). According to your scientists i should not be driving!

[FolkGuitar]

Oh, no question about that! I think everyone (well, perhaps with one exception) agrees that driving while drunk is a serious mistake. No, I'm talking about the person who goes out and has a few drinks during the evening, not someone who is falling down drunk. The ones who believe that because they aren't falling down drunk that they are fit to drive.

As you say, this is just a debate... and emotional one. If we happen to meet, I'll stand you to a beer... as long as your not driving.

Wherever possible i have tea or coconut juice now! And i won't talk about this topic, it usually gets heated. Writing about it on a forum is probably not best for me either. But i stand by my points. I would not claim drink driving is safe, but i am saying that relatively speaking some people can drive perfectly safe enough under the influence of a moderately low consumption but which is over very low legal limits.

It's not in the brief of this thread, but i once read about some very intersting research into people driving or using heavy machinery in their jobs while under the influence of marijuana. The research came out of harvard (i think it was this university, but it was certainly a name of this stature), and it had some most interesting results. 1. One was that the effect smoking it had on their ability to use heavy machines or to drive depended on their rate of exposure to the drug. There was huge variance between different members of those tested in the research.

I use that as an example to back up my main point here that people react very differently to things.

2. I can't remember if you said you'd driven before in your life after drinking, but if you have i wonder how you felt driving home after two or three big bottles of beer? I know you like to quote scientists and the like, but personally i can't give much credence to them. I can have two big bottles in two hours, and be perfectly safe to drive. In fact the law in britain agrees with me. And in fact i can drink four pints of local - weaker - beer in England and still be legally safe to drive (i got tested). According to your scientists i should not be driving!

1. I'm familiar with that experiment. It was actually conducted by several different universities. I'm familiar with the one done by the University of Vermont. The results there were just as you said.

2. I've never really been a beer drinker. The only times I drink it is when I'm in Germany or Austria, if it's summer time, and even then only one a day at most. Not trying to moderate consumption... It's just that by the end of the glass, I don't want any more. I enjoy the first 1/3 of the glass, tolerate the second third, and usually leave the last. However, I do like a small glass of Bombay Sapphire, Jamaican rum or Mexican tequila, but don't drink them outside my home, so no driving is involved. A bottle can last me 5-6 months. (Like you, I prefer to drink tea) The only time I drink more is on my birthday, at dinner, when I usually have a pitcher of frozen margaritas and let my wife guide me home.

However, 50 years ago, I did drink a lot. And I drove too. I was pretty drunk every Friday and Saturday night. If I wasn't falling down drunk I believed I was sober enough to drive. I was a teenager and invincible. Of course, as a teenager I really didn't give a damn about anyone else's welfare. What teenager does? Combine being invincible with no one else on the planet, there was no reason not to drive. I was a kid. I thought like a kid and I behaved like a kid. But I grew up fast during during the Tet Offensive in Saigon in '68. Changed my whole way of looking at the world. I basically stopped drinking after that... These days, perhaps half a glass of rum once every few weeks... perhaps a shot of tequila or gin instead. Nothing wrong with alcohol... in moderation, but not combined with driving.

[Chiengmaijoe]

It's an interesting debate but I'm not sure of the relevance of comparing the effect of alcohol on driving a simple mechanical device like a car with the complexities of piloting an aircraft, including take-off and landing. Since the law treats them differently then it's fair to assume that the law makers also recognise the difference. My driving after drinking is considered to be legal almost universally.

[FolkGuitar]

It's an interesting debate but I'm not sure of the relevance of comparing the effect of alcohol on driving a simple mechanical device like a car with the complexities of piloting an aircraft, including take-off and landing. Since the law treats them differently then it's fair to assume that the law makers also recognise the difference. My driving after drinking is considered to be legal almost universally.

... but perhaps not quite as simple it it appears. They have had devices that can automatically land a plane without human intervention for years, and all commercial aircraft are so equipped. I haven't seen an automatic parallel parking device being sold anywhere. God knows there are a lot of folks who could use one! LOL!

[Diplomatico]

It's an interesting debate but I'm not sure of the relevance of comparing the effect of alcohol on driving a simple mechanical device like a car with the complexities of piloting an aircraft, including take-off and landing. Since the law treats them differently then it's fair to assume that the law makers also recognise the difference. My driving after drinking is considered to be legal almost universally.

... but perhaps not quite as simple it it appears. They have had devices that can automatically land a plane without human intervention for years, and all commercial aircraft are so equipped. I haven't seen an automatic parallel parking device being sold anywhere. God knows there are a lot of folks who could use one! LOL!

Plenty of cars have automatic parallel parking built into them these days.

http://motorreview.com/ford-active-park-assist-automatic-parallel-parking-video/

http://motorburn.com/2012/06/top-five-self-parking-cars/

[FolkGuitar]

It's an interesting debate but I'm not sure of the relevance of comparing the effect of alcohol on driving a simple mechanical device like a car with the complexities of piloting an aircraft, including take-off and landing. Since the law treats them differently then it's fair to assume that the law makers also recognise the difference. My driving after drinking is considered to be legal almost universally.

... but perhaps not quite as simple it it appears. They have had devices that can automatically land a plane without human intervention for years, and all commercial aircraft are so equipped. I haven't seen an automatic parallel parking device being sold anywhere. God knows there are a lot of folks who could use one! LOL!

Plenty of cars have automatic parallel parking built into them these days.

http://motorreview.com/ford-active-park-assist-automatic-parallel-parking-video/

http://motorburn.com/2012/06/top-five-self-parking-cars/

Well I guess that just shows to go ya that driving a car might require more skill and ability than even a sober person has!

Thanks for that link. I had no idea that things had progressed that far.

[Fab5BKK]

It's an interesting debate but I'm not sure of the relevance of comparing the effect of alcohol on driving a simple mechanical device like a car with the complexities of piloting an aircraft, including take-off and landing. Since the law treats them differently then it's fair to assume that the law makers also recognise the difference. My driving after drinking is considered to be legal almost universally.

... but perhaps not quite as simple it it appears. They have had devices that can automatically land a plane without human intervention for years, and all commercial aircraft are so equipped. I haven't seen an automatic parallel parking device being sold anywhere. God knows there are a lot of folks who could use one! LOL!

Plenty of cars have automatic parallel parking built into them these days.

http://motorreview.com/ford-active-park-assist-automatic-parallel-parking-video/

http://motorburn.com/2012/06/top-five-self-parking-cars/

Additional features making the driver's life easier

[Nignoy]

Oh, no question about that! I think everyone (well, perhaps with one exception) agrees that driving while drunk is a serious mistake. No, I'm talking about the person who goes out and has a few drinks during the evening, not someone who is falling down drunk. The ones who believe that because they aren't falling down drunk that they are fit to drive.

As you say, this is just a debate... and emotional one. If we happen to meet, I'll stand you to a beer... as long as your not driving.

Wherever possible i have tea or coconut juice now! And i won't talk about this topic, it usually gets heated. Writing about it on a forum is probably not best for me either. But i stand by my points. I would not claim drink driving is safe, but i am saying that relatively speaking some people can drive perfectly safe enough under the influence of a moderately low consumption but which is over very low legal limits.

It's not in the brief of this thread, but i once read about some very intersting research into people driving or using heavy machinery in their jobs while under the influence of marijuana. The research came out of harvard (i think it was this university, but it was certainly a name of this stature), and it had some most interesting results. One was that the effect smoking it had on their ability to use heavy machines or to drive depended on their rate of exposure to the drug. There was huge variance between different members of those tested in the research.

I use that as an example to back up my main point here that people react very differently to things.

I can't remember if you said you'd driven before in your life after drinking, but if you have i wonder how you felt driving home after two or three big bottles of beer? I know you like to quote scientists and the like, but personally i can't give much credence to them. I can have two big bottles in two hours, and be perfectly safe to drive. In fact the law in britain agrees with me. And in fact i can drink four pints of local - weaker - beer in England and still be legally safe to drive (i got tested). According to your scientists i should not be driving!

I don't know or care about scientific tests, as a young soldier in the early 60,s arriving in Singapore,to show the potency of the local beers and pot we were encouraged totake part in writing tests after we had slurped upto 5 tiger beers or smoked a joint, these tests were filmed and used as training aids for newcomers in later years, the results were quite scary,some of our antics unknown to ourselves were funny, I thought 5 beers would not affect me because off duty drinking was a part of army culture, my test was to write the same paragraph over and over my writing went from legible to spider tracks,in ink, of course alcohol affects reactions no matter how bombproof you think you are , I had a son in law who used to think the same always have a couple of pints with his lunch until he crashed into a town bus in the middle of the day,he changed his mind about drinking after a couple of months in german prison!!