Sweden recognises Palestinian state

[Ulysses G.]

If you chant Free Palestine river to the sea you're supporting genocide of Jews. That's pretty darned antisemitic..

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It wouldn't be genocide if they went back to Europe where most of them came from only one or two generations ago.

Not saying that I support that, just that you are being a bit dramatic with your genocide accusation.

There it is folks. The classic Israel delegitimatization big lie. No response needed.

So you support the right of Israel to exist do you? Why not be more honest?

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You might try to read what he said. He was just showing your genocide claim as hyperbole

Denying that Hamas want to commit genocide is a lot more than hyperbole, it is lie. They have said it over and over again and it is in their charter to this day.

[jdinasia]

If you chant Free Palestine river to the sea you're supporting genocide of Jews. That's pretty darned antisemitic..

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It wouldn't be genocide if they went back to Europe where most of them came from only one or two generations ago.

Not saying that I support that, just that you are being a bit dramatic with your genocide accusation.

There it is folks. The classic Israel delegitimatization big lie. No response needed.

So you support the right of Israel to exist do you? Why not be more honest?

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You might try to read what he said. He was just showing your genocide claim as hyperbole

Denying that Hamas want to commit genocide is a lot more than hyperbole, it is lie. They have said it over and over again and it is in their charter to this day.

And again there is so little difference between the HAMAS charter and the Likud charter that they could have been written by the same author

[Ulysses G.]

And again there is so little difference between the HAMAS charter and the Likud charter that they could have been written by the same author

Really? You obviously have not read either one and it is becoming very obvious that you know next to nothing about the history of Israel or the Palestinian Arabs.

"Try being informed instead of opinionated." Where have I read those words?

Why don't you try to find a comparable passage to this one in the Hamas charter, calling for genocide?

"The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, 'O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Lissos]

It wouldn't be genocide if they went back to Europe where most of them came from only one or two generations ago.

My guess is that a substantial amount of Israelis would find this suggestion highly amusing, considering that it seems that based on family heritage, they would be expected to miraculously seperate himself / herself into two and then send one part of themselves to present day Iraq / Jordan / Iran and the other half of themselves to Hungary / Ukraine / Poland, to appease foaming at the mouth demands from Israel's detractors who increasingly could be compared to that black knight from Monty Python's Holy Grail who no longer has means to issue lofty demands.

[jdinasia]

Sorry, but strangely the Likud charter page is down.

This covers the broad strokes

http://mondoweiss.net/2011/11/netanyahu’s-party-platform-flatly-rejects-establishment-of-palestinian-state

[Maestro]

Removed a flame.

[japsportscarmad]

Sorry, but strangely the Likud charter page is down.

This covers the broad strokes

http://mondoweiss.net/2011/11/netanyahu’s-party-platform-flatly-rejects-establishment-of-palestinian-state

You have hit the nail on the head the Israelis do not want a solution.

Here's why the world is starting to wake up, when the Israeli police shoot someone, do not offer first aid and he dies, then the Palestinians sensing no justice riot, so would I.

Yes before the Palestinian demonisers start he did have possibly a knife but he was running away when shot. And the incident started when his brother was beaten up for walking along the wrong street and was violently arrested.

Nothing like Nazi Germany though :-)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/09/violence-spreads-israel-shooting-galilee-video-kheir-hamdan

[Lissos]

........he did have possibly a knife but he was running away when shot.

In the U.S I suspect he would have been stuck with a taser and a massive current of incapacitating shock sent through him to neutralise the armed threat, regardless of him advancing or retreating. In the UK, possibly similar these days given the terror threat level currently at 'severe'. Only a few days ago here in Britain, a man was stuck with a taser and died as a result after being disturbed in the act of eating a woman's eyeball and face.

In either case, running away once challenged does not magically excuse someone from the consequences of their choice to act in the way that they chose, prior to running away. In this case, it appears in the full length video that he is stabbing (with something) at their car not just once, but multiple times and (most importantly) also trying to open the door to get at them directly.

By all means investigate if they were legally allowed to shoot him in this case, but I don't subscribe to any notion (if implied) that because someone is running away once they've woken a lion, it means they are now off the hook and shouldn't face heavy consequences for the actions prior to running. He was dragged into the car and taken to hospital afterwards. Unceremoniously, but it wasn't a vehicle designed to smoothly slide someone in like an ambulance.

I apply the same to all the rock lobbing that goes on in that part of the world. Israeli army has, as far as I know, in the case of usual disturbance like rock lobbing, a staggered procedure to follow of warnings and various methods of dispersal. If those fail to dilute the disorder, the consequences for those who continue to lob rocks are going to be harder than if they'd ceased prior to 'final straw'. If these offficers he was trying to get at were Magav,then especially so and perhaps they are allowed to follow a different approach given the direct proximity to people. In the interests of balance, here is a video showing them carrying out an act that I guarantee will not be reported on international media.

[japsportscarmad]

Fair comment

[Ulysses G.]

Sorry, but strangely the Likud charter page is down.

This covers the broad strokes

http://mondoweiss.net/2011/11/netanyahu’s-party-platform-flatly-rejects-establishment-of-palestinian-state

AS I said, you are clueless about any of this. You produce a 2011 article about a charter that has been superceded by The Likud Constitution of May 2014 which does not rule out the establishment of a Palestinian state and - unlike the Hamas charter that you claimed was virtually the same - there is no call for genocide or anything even close to it.

By the way, not wanting people that have been attacking you for for 100 years and still embrace violence and terrorism to have their first state right next door to you, might be considered sensible to anyone that was threatened by them.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies have been removed.

The topic is about Sweden's recognition of Palestine.

[Jingthing]

A question worth asking about Sweden and others recognizing a "Palestinian" state considering there never has been a state of the "Palestinian" people in the history of the world (that is just a clear FACT) -- is WHAT are the "Palestinian" people exactly? Yes, they are primarily ethnic Arabs. From a historical POV are they not the SAME people as Arab Jordanians, Arab Syrians, Arab Lebanese? Is not the entire Palestinian national movement a tactical political construct? Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that ... but considering the heat that Jews get for desiring to keep their one TINY ethnic Jewish dominant state when there are so many ethnic Arab dominant states already LONG existing, it does seem relevant. It still seems the Arab world (and also the larger Islamic world and now Europe which has a LOT OF NERVE after how they persecuted Jews for thousands of year) is being incredibly mean spirited and greedy in trying the constantly delegitimize the very existence of Israel. No Sweden isn't saying Israel shouldn't exist but they are recognizing a fictional "Palestinian state" whose leadership is very clear in their ultimate goal of ending Israel as a state with a JEWISH character. So yes INDIRECTLY yes this is now Europe (now more Islamic Europe) having the nerve to give open support to a force against the existence of Israel.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Jingthing

[chuckd]

Wondering if the Swedish government was under any internal duress when they made the decision to recognize Palestine.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Swedish Police Release Extensive Report Detailing Control Of 55 ‘No-Go Zones’ By Muslim Criminal Gangs

7:21 PM 11/02/2014

MATT DANIELSSON

An extensive report mapping out 55 no-go zones was released Oct. 24, showing where law enforcement has all but handed control to criminal gangs.

Officers frequently face outright attacks when trying to enter the areas, which is a step up from the previous problem with attacks on mailmen, fire trucks, ambulances and similar services. Fire trucks and ambulances had to wait for police escort to enter the areas, but now the police themselves need protection.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/02/swedish-police-release-extensive-report-detailing-control-of-55-no-go-zones-by-muslim-criminal-gangs/

It is more likely the Swedish government decided to recognize Palestine to appease the mobs of Muslim immigrants that have driven them to declare no-go zones.

What better way to ease some of the pressure at home than to give them something?

[Ulysses G.]

Wondering if the Swedish government was under any internal duress when they made the decision to recognize Palestine.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Swedish Police Release Extensive Report Detailing Control Of 55 No-Go Zones By Muslim Criminal Gangs

7:21 PM 11/02/2014

MATT DANIELSSON

An extensive report mapping out 55 no-go zones was released Oct. 24, showing where law enforcement has all but handed control to criminal gangs.

Officers frequently face outright attacks when trying to enter the areas, which is a step up from the previous problem with attacks on mailmen, fire trucks, ambulances and similar services. Fire trucks and ambulances had to wait for police escort to enter the areas, but now the police themselves need protection.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/02/swedish-police-release-extensive-report-detailing-control-of-55-no-go-zones-by-muslim-criminal-gangs/

It is more likely the Swedish government decided to recognize Palestine to appease the mobs of Muslim immigrants that have driven them to declare no-go zones.

What better way to ease some of the pressure at home than to give them something?

That certainly makes sense, but appeasing radical Muslims never works. Sweden will just end up worse off than they are now.

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed:

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[Ulysses G.]

A huge number of Israel's critics are anti-Semites that hate them for being a Jewish country and those anti-Semitic protests a few months ago prove it. There really is no getting around it

Edited November 10, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[chuckd]

Why are you so anxious to defend neo-nazis?

[Jingthing]

A huge number of Israel's critics are anti-Semites that hate them for being a Jewish country and those anti-Semitic protests a few months ago prove it. There really is no getting around it

Yes of course but it important to emphasize that not all criticisms of Israeli policy are motivated by antisemitism. There are grey areas open to debate. For example, I strongly feel that being "anti-Zionist" is almost equivalent to anti-semitism because why would you single out Jews to not have the right of a majority in one small nation state if you aren't opposing nation states with majority characters of all other RACIAL/RELIGIOUS/ETHNIC/NATIONAL IDENTITY groups? (Yes, there are Jewish anti-Zionists and I don't think most of them are self hating Jews, though some are, some are religious extremists who read Jewish dogma differently and some are what we call useful idiots.)

Now if someone says I don't believe in borders, or passports, or nationalities, and was "anti-Zionist" for that reason, they'd be very strange but clearly not SINGLING out Jews.

Also I find the chant "River to the sea" DEEPLY anti-Jewish because it is clearly saying: Jews go away or be killed. If these protesters don't want people to think they are antisemitic why is that their main chant? One that makes so many Jews BLOOD BOIL?

Why can't they chant something reasonable like:

Palestinian State living side by side to Israel in peace NOW

(I would be thrilled to march in a protest rally where THAT was the message. Where are those rallies? I don't see them.)

Also reasonable to chant:

Israeli Settlements out of West Bank!

Open up Gaza!

Compensation for Verifiable Nakba Victims NOW!

Hamas ... Stop Oppressing our Arab Gays and Women!

Etc.

But what do we hear instead?

Chants designed to inflame Jews.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

A huge number of Israel's critics are anti-Semites that hate them for being a Jewish country and those anti-Semitic protests a few months ago prove it. There really is no getting around it

Yes of course but it important to emphasize that not all criticisms of Israeli policy are motivated by antisemitism.

Agreed, but IMO, that is the biggest motivator of the hard-core Israel haters. The fact that it is fashionable on the left - amongst people who have no real understanding of the conflict - does not make the situation any better.

[Chicog]

A huge number of Israel's critics are anti-Semites that hate them for being a Jewish country and those anti-Semitic protests a few months ago prove it. There really is no getting around it

Yes of course but it important to emphasize that not all criticisms of Israeli policy are motivated by antisemitism.

Agreed, but IMO, that is the biggest motivator of the hard-core Israel haters. The fact that it is fashionable on the left - amongst people who have no real understanding of the conflict - does not make the situation any better.

The fact that Israel has successfully co-opted the phrase "anti-semitic" for years shows that most of the people squealing on their behalf don't know what they are talking about either.

[Ulysses G.]

A huge number of Israel's critics are anti-Semites that hate them for being a Jewish country and those anti-Semitic protests a few months ago prove it. There really is no getting around it

Yes of course but it important to emphasize that not all criticisms of Israeli policy are motivated by antisemitism.

Agreed, but IMO, that is the biggest motivator of the hard-core Israel haters. The fact that it is fashionable on the left - amongst people who have no real understanding of the conflict - does not make the situation any better.

The fact that Israel has successfully co-opted the phrase "anti-semitic" for years shows that most of the people squealing on their behalf don't know what they are talking about either.

Yeah. Because there is no anti-Semitism against Israel or Jews. It is all imaginary.

"The Day of Resurrection will not arrive until the Moslems make war against the Jews and kill them, and until a Jew hiding behind a rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: 'Oh Moslem, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!'"

-The Hamas Charter

Edited November 10, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic, inflammatory troll posts and replies have been removed. One suspension has been given. The topic is about Sweden's recognition of Palestine. Stick to the topic or you will be given a warning and a suspension.

[jdinasia]

Imho Sweden has done the right thing.

The vast majority of countries in the world have recognized Palestine. The refusal to recognize Palestine by the US and blocking its membership in the UN is weakening an already next to useless group.

[dexterm]

A question worth asking about Sweden and others recognizing a "Palestinian" state considering there never has been a state of the "Palestinian" people in the history of the world (that is just a clear FACT) -- is WHAT are the "Palestinian" people exactly? Yes, they are primarily ethnic Arabs. From a historical POV are they not the SAME people as Arab Jordanians, Arab Syrians, Arab Lebanese? Is not the entire Palestinian national movement a tactical political construct? Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that ... but considering the heat that Jews get for desiring to keep their one TINY ethnic Jewish dominant state when there are so many ethnic Arab dominant states already LONG existing, it does seem relevant. It still seems the Arab world (and also the larger Islamic world and now Europe which has a LOT OF NERVE after how they persecuted Jews for thousands of year) is being incredibly mean spirited and greedy in trying the constantly delegitimize the very existence of Israel. No Sweden isn't saying Israel shouldn't exist but they are recognizing a fictional "Palestinian state" whose leadership is very clear in their ultimate goal of ending Israel as a state with a JEWISH character. So yes INDIRECTLY yes this is now Europe (now more Islamic Europe) having the nerve to give open support to a force against the existence of Israel.

Palestine has been around for over 3,000 years. Many different peoples have lived there. It's about time they were recognized

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

Israel wasn’t a globally recognized state either until 1948, and even that was a murky affair accompanied by much bullying and bribery of other UN members.

Now Palestine is moving towards being recognized too. Sweden and UK recently...more to come I hope.

[up-country_sinclair]

It seems to me that the most pertinent question is which European country will be the first to follow Sweden in officially recognizing the state of Palestine? I think the UK is a good bet, but others might think France. Don't count out Ireland either.

By the way, in an attempt to correct the "counter factual" posts above, here is a map of the countries which recognize the state of Palestine

The writing (as the say), is on the wall.

Edited November 10, 2014 by up-country_sinclair

[Ulysses G.]

A question worth asking about Sweden and others recognizing a "Palestinian" state considering there never has been a state of the "Palestinian" people in the history of the world (that is just a clear FACT) -- is WHAT are the "Palestinian" people exactly? Yes, they are primarily ethnic Arabs. From a historical POV are they not the SAME people as Arab Jordanians, Arab Syrians, Arab Lebanese? Is not the entire Palestinian national movement a tactical political construct? Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that ... but considering the heat that Jews get for desiring to keep their one TINY ethnic Jewish dominant state when there are so many ethnic Arab dominant states already LONG existing, it does seem relevant. It still seems the Arab world (and also the larger Islamic world and now Europe which has a LOT OF NERVE after how they persecuted Jews for thousands of year) is being incredibly mean spirited and greedy in trying the constantly delegitimize the very existence of Israel. No Sweden isn't saying Israel shouldn't exist but they are recognizing a fictional "Palestinian state" whose leadership is very clear in their ultimate goal of ending Israel as a state with a JEWISH character. So yes INDIRECTLY yes this is now Europe (now more Islamic Europe) having the nerve to give open support to a force against the existence of Israel.

Palestine has been around for over 3,000 years. Many different peoples have lived there. It's about time they were recognized

Palestine has been recognized for a long time as a geographical area. That is all it has ever been - since the Jewish state long ago.

[Chicog]

Yeah. Because there is no anti-Semitism against Israel or Jews. It is all imaginary.

"The Day of Resurrection will not arrive until the Moslems make war against the Jews and kill them, and until a Jew hiding behind a rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: 'Oh Moslem, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!'"

-The Hamas Charter

It should be anti-Judaism or Anti-Israeli... er... ism.

Half of the Blue Suede Shoes aren't even Semites. Even the Maltese have got a better claim than most of them.

[up-country_sinclair]

A question worth asking about Sweden and others recognizing a "Palestinian" state considering there never has been a state of the "Palestinian" people in the history of the world (that is just a clear FACT) -- is WHAT are the "Palestinian" people exactly? Yes, they are primarily ethnic Arabs. From a historical POV are they not the SAME people as Arab Jordanians, Arab Syrians, Arab Lebanese? Is not the entire Palestinian national movement a tactical political construct? Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that ... but considering the heat that Jews get for desiring to keep their one TINY ethnic Jewish dominant state when there are so many ethnic Arab dominant states already LONG existing, it does seem relevant. It still seems the Arab world (and also the larger Islamic world and now Europe which has a LOT OF NERVE after how they persecuted Jews for thousands of year) is being incredibly mean spirited and greedy in trying the constantly delegitimize the very existence of Israel. No Sweden isn't saying Israel shouldn't exist but they are recognizing a fictional "Palestinian state" whose leadership is very clear in their ultimate goal of ending Israel as a state with a JEWISH character. So yes INDIRECTLY yes this is now Europe (now more Islamic Europe) having the nerve to give open support to a force against the existence of Israel.

Palestine has been around for over 3,000 years. Many different peoples have lived there. It's about time they were recognized

Palestine has been recognized for a long time as a geographical area. That is all it has ever been - since the Jewish state long ago.

Last week Sweden became the 135th UN member to recognize the state of Palestine. As much as the occupiers and their apologists want to deny it, that fact remains.

[jdinasia]

More than 2/3 of the countries of the world have recognized Palestine.

So stating it is not a country is disingenuous at the very least.

Edited November 10, 2014 by jdinasia

[Jingthing]

More than 2/3 of the countries of the world have recognized Palestine.

So stating it is not a country is disingenuous at the very least.

Gaza and West Bank are certainly places that have some land. That is recognizable. But the rest at the moment is more complicated, and like it or, DOES involve the actually fully established state of Israel.