UK: Man attacks 15-year-old poppy seller

[JockPieandBeans]

7x7

"As many as 400,000 Muslims made up one-third of the Indian Army of 1.3 million, along with 100,000 Sikhs, and up to 800,000 Hindu soldiers. Yet when asked to estimate how many Muslims fought on the British side in 1914, only 2% of those surveyed by British Future correctly placed the number at between 250,000 and 500,000."

The Indian Army provided 1.3 million troops for the War effort.

46,000 were killed, which is 3.5% of the 1.3 million.

So even if a 1/3rd of those killed were Muslim, it would only equate to 15000. As the vast majority were Hindu, the numbers would dictate that the number of Muslims killed would be far less.

You really need to try harder.

[simple1]

7x7

"As many as 400,000 Muslims made up one-third of the Indian Army of 1.3 million, along with 100,000 Sikhs, and up to 800,000 Hindu soldiers. Yet when asked to estimate how many Muslims fought on the British side in 1914, only 2% of those surveyed by British Future correctly placed the number at between 250,000 and 500,000."

The Indian Army provided 1.3 million troops for the War effort.

46,000 were killed, which is 3.5% of the 1.3 million.

So even if a 1/3rd of those killed were Muslim, it would only equate to 15000. As the vast majority were Hindu, the numbers would dictate that the number of Muslims killed would be far less.

You really need to try harder.

Isn't it somewhat irrelevant the number of Muslims from the Commonwealth forces killed in action or wounded, the fact is they died fighting alongside UK & Commonwealth forces. 'They' volunteered and made a significant contribution to the overall Allied war effort; probably mainly in logistics / support thereby releasing many more UK & Commonwealth forces for war fighting. Even so one has to acknowledge the contribution of the Indian fighting divisions in North Africa, Italy, Burma and other areas of operations.

Churchill was a renowned bigot and racist, but as he said in a letter to Roosevelt:

"We must not on any account break with the Moslems, who represent a hundred million people, and the main army elements on which we must rely for the immediate fighting".

Have to say if I were a Muslim at that time and knew of Churchills views on Muslims I would not have fought for the British.

Edited November 13, 2014 by simple1

[Elmer Gantry]

Enoch saw it coming,he was right.

[MRDave]

Don't tell me, the offender was of the persuasion of a certain peaceful religion...

Why don't you at least have the guts to come out and say what you really mean? Your cowardly covert racism is even more repugnant than the kind that marches mob-handed down the street waving banners with racist slogs and spitting insults at by-standers who happen to have dark skins.

Maybe you missed this line in the report: "Police said that he appeared to be under the influence of alcohol and was staggering".

The vast majority of Muslims do not drink alcohol, which is against the teachings of Islam.

But of course, you already knew that.

Yet there is a large amount of alcohol, sold by Dubai duty free. So profit over the teachings of Islam? My friend is a Muslim from Afghanistan, now a Dutch national he drinks alcohol like a fish. He hates Pakistani Muslims and Muslims who pretend to be conservative in public. And I agree with him. Of course the same can be said of some Christians who go to Church and then go home and beat the wife. (last bit added for your politically correct balance).

Edited November 13, 2014 by MRDave

[JockPieandBeans]

7x7

"As many as 400,000 Muslims made up one-third of the Indian Army of 1.3 million, along with 100,000 Sikhs, and up to 800,000 Hindu soldiers. Yet when asked to estimate how many Muslims fought on the British side in 1914, only 2% of those surveyed by British Future correctly placed the number at between 250,000 and 500,000."

The Indian Army provided 1.3 million troops for the War effort.

46,000 were killed, which is 3.5% of the 1.3 million.

So even if a 1/3rd of those killed were Muslim, it would only equate to 15000. As the vast majority were Hindu, the numbers would dictate that the number of Muslims killed would be far less.

You really need to try harder.

Isn't it somewhat irrelevant the number of Muslims from the Commonwealth forces killed in action or wounded, the fact is they died fighting alongside UK & Commonwealth forces. 'They' volunteered and made a significant contribution to the overall Allied war effort; probably mainly in logistics / support thereby releasing many more UK & Commonwealth forces for war fighting. Even so one has to acknowledge the contribution of the Indian fighting divisions in North Africa, Italy, Burma and other areas of operations.

Churchill was a renowned bigot and racist, but as he said in a letter to Roosevelt:

"We must not on any account break with the Moslems, who represent a hundred million people, and the main army elements on which we must rely for the immediate fighting".

Have to say if I were a Muslim at that time and knew of Churchills views on Muslims I would not have fought for the British.

Simple 1

My response was to 7x7

Who, yet again, asserted that " Many Muslims " were killed fighting for Britain in the UK.

The numbers are not known, but less than 10000 over the course of 2 World Wars does not equate to many.

The ' many Muslims" actually fought for the Ottoman Empire.

I merely pointed out that his assertion was wrong. You are indeed correct. The number is irrelevant, it only becomes relevant when someone uses flawed logic to try and justify his statements.

When one takes the decision to go and fight a war, religion does not really come into it. A decision is generally taken on the basis of right or wrong.

If you take the time to research Churchill, especially his time in India, it might surprise you that I also think he is a <deleted>.

[7by7]

Even if one accepts your figures of 15,000 killed in WW1 or your later estimate of 10,000 Muslim deaths on the British side in both wars (make your mind up; which is it?), that is still a lot.

Maybe you have a different definition of 'many' to the rest of us.

It is neither 'flawed logic' nor 'PC' to point out that Muslims have fought and died for this country; and still are.

Of course many Muslims fought and died for the Ottoman empire in the First World War, a large proportion of them conscripts. Most citizens of the empire were Muslim and the empire was in the war on the side of the Central Powers.

But that does not change the fact that Muslims volunteered to fight for Britain and many of them were wounded or died.

Your attempt to trivialise the deaths of Muslims fighting for Britain by saying Muslims died fighting for the Ottoman empire is as shameful as saying that British deaths are irrelevant because many Germans died as well!

[7by7]

JockPieandBeans"

Every year we also get reports of Muslims desecrating remembrance memorials also."

Every year? To quote you; please provide a link to back up this claim.

Meanwhile: Vandal admits painting 'Islam' on war memorial days after murder of Lee Rigby

"Andrew Patterson, 31, has admitted causing more than £50,000 of damage during a vandalism spree last year."

A lone vandal, acting on his own. Not a Muslim, not part of any campaign by anyone!

War memorial on Stone Recreation Ground, Stone, vandalised with white graffiti

A mindless tag, not a Muslim slogan. Was the offender a Muslim? Possibly, possibly not; but this obviously was not motivated by religion; these idiots, of all races and religious backgrounds, spray their tags everywhere.

JockPieandBeans

As I have already pointed out, you will not find official reports detailing no-go areas. It would be an admission of catastrophic failure by the UK Government and its Police force. Plenty of people have highlighted these no-go areas, they exist, whether you choose to believe it or not.

The very fact, that as you point out, there have been numerous news reports of some being arrested who have tried setting up no go areas and imposing Sharia Law, tells you that it will have succeeded in other areas.

Please explain how the police successfully tackling attempts to impose no go areas etc. by arresting and bringing to the courts those responsible and the courts jailing those offenders is proof that the authorities are afraid to tackle no go areas.

JockPieandBeans

Please enlighten me as to what my prejudices are ? If you want to accuse me of telling the truth, go right ahead, guilty as accused.

Your prejudices are there for all to see.

The day you tell the truth, I will acknowledge it.

From previous experience there is no PC reply acceptable to this post.Hush your mouth.

From previous experience there is no PC reply acceptable to this post.Hush your mouth.

Agreed and well said

The usual response from the prejudiced when presented with facts they can't refute and questions they can't answer.

[ravip]

Treating the symptoms instead of the root cause, is just stupidity. This is what's going on today.

What is the root cause for today's problems?

[JockPieandBeans]

Even if one accepts your figures of 15,000 killed in WW1 or your later estimate of 10,000 Muslim deaths on the British side in both wars (make your mind up; which is it?), that is still a lot.

Maybe you have a different definition of 'many' to the rest of us.

It is neither 'flawed logic' nor 'PC' to point out that Muslims have fought and died for this country; and still are.

Of course many Muslims fought and died for the Ottoman empire in the First World War, a large proportion of them conscripts. Most citizens of the empire were Muslim and the empire was in the war on the side of the Central Powers.

But that does not change the fact that Muslims volunteered to fight for Britain and many of them were wounded or died.

Your attempt to trivialise the deaths of Muslims fighting for Britain by saying Muslims died fighting for the Ottoman empire is as shameful as saying that British deaths are irrelevant because many Germans died as well!

7x7

You do not have to accept MY figures. They are not mine. they are freely available from the correct Gov website if you care to look.

Yes we certainly do have a different definition of many. You asserted that 'Many " Muslims died fighting for Britain in both World Wars. I am merely pointing out that between 10 & 15000 ( The exact numbers are not known ) and it could even be far less, is not a large number when taken in the context of 2 World Wars.

As they were part of the " Indian Army " neither you or I have any idea if they " Volunteered " to fight for Britain. There is also a good chance that they could have been shot by the Indian Army if they had refused. Not that I am saying that is what happened, because I dont know. Then again, neither do you.

How long did you spend in the ranks of the Armed Forces ? Do not make assumptions about what I have or have not done. Or that I trivialise the death of ANY member of the UK Forces.

Edited November 15, 2014 by JockPieandBeans

[7by7]

Dear, oh dear; you're getting desperate again.

First you say the figures are freely available; then contradict yourself when you say they are not known!

The number of deaths from the Indian Army are known;

The Indian Army during World War I contributed a large number of divisions and independent brigades to the European, Mediterranean and the Middle East theatres of war in World War I. Over one million Indian troops served overseas, of whom 62,000 died and another 67,000 were wounded. In total at least 74,187 Indian soldiers died during the war.
source

The Indian Army began the war, in 1939, numbering just under 200,000 men.[1] By the end of the war it had become the largest volunteer army in history, rising to over 2.5 million men in August 1945.[1][2].....

......These campaigns cost the lives of over 36,000 Indian servicemen, while another 34,354 were wounded,[3] and 67,340 became prisoners of war.[4]

source

but no one at the time thought it necessary to categorise them by religion; other than ensuring they had a proper burial. Establishing how many of those were Muslim would be possible by searching through the records; if you want to do so.

The Indian Army was a volunteer force; no conscripts;

Recruitment was entirely voluntary; about 1.3 million men served in the First World War, many on the Western Front and 2.5 million in the Second.
source

Previously posted figures, which you have accepted, show that about one third of those were Muslim.

That you are prepared to so easily dismiss the sacrifice of anyone who has fought and died fighting for this country, regardless of their race or religion, conscript or volunteer, speaks volumes about you; none of it pleasant.

[The manic]

You talk about no go areas and then present two reports without any indication that you have changed the subject!

You excuses now that you have been found out are just that, excuses; and feeble to boot.

I have looked; police no go areas in the UK are a thing of the past in the UK.

As those of us who, unlike you, actually live here know.

You will find out about the existence of no go areas in the UK soon enough if you stray into one. There have always been no go areas, where police had to,patrol in pairs, with dogs to be safe. The problems is the muslim dominated areas such as Luton where white women cannot dress in normal clothes without being threatened or being harassed. Other areas include he East End of London where the police are in cahoots with so called community leaders and thus the flag of ISIS can be flown with impunity. Whole swathes of the UK have come under muslim domination and the local,population left swamped, betryed and unprotected as were the poor girls of Rotherham for whom Pakistani paedophilia was a no go area for police. The BBC also discovered a no go area when trying to do a documentary on the subject. A film being shot in Brick Lane had to be cancelled because the area became a no go area for white film makers examining aspects of Bengali culture. The indigenous population has been betrayed and in many places old people are too afraid to,leave their houses, the local council has been corrupted and the young people have to follow an imported gang culture. The inner cities of the UK and France to name just one have become no go hell.

[7by7]

The flow of misinformation from the prejudiced continues.

So, here are some facts.

Yes, there are rough neighbourhoods where the police patrol in pairs; always have been and many (most?) of these are not Muslim areas. But the police do go into those areas, so calling them 'no go' is incorrect.

The police received no complaints about the ISIS flag in Poplar. As we are fortunate to have freedom of expression in the UK then flying it, or any other political symbol whether it be right wing or left wing, Muslim or non Muslim, is not by itself illegal anyway. As we all know, but certain people choose to ignore, the flag was removed by a member of the public and has not been replaced.

How many more links do I have to produce showing that so called 'Muslim patrols' are arrested and jailed before people like you believe it? Here's another one: 'Muslim Patrol' jailed for harassing couple holding hands and men drinking in a bid to enforce Sharia law in East London.

There is a long topic on Rotherham; so I wont go into that here except to say that the failings of both the police and social services were not due to any form of no go area, but their incompetence. If the police were unable or unwilling to act against those evil men responsible, then they would not now be in jail.

The BBC not only made a documentary on the child abuse scandal in Rotherham; they broadcast it. If BBC iPlayer is available outside the UK you can watch it here.

You obviously know nothing about the protest over the filming in Brick Lane; which occurred in 2006. It wasn't a BBC documentary; it was a film adaption of a novel. The protest had nothing to do with so called no go areas; it was over the way the Brick Lane community was being portrayed in both the book and the film.

Brick Lane protesters hurt over 'lies'

Some 120 members of the Bangladeshi community from London and beyond marched in protest against the forthcoming film adaptation of Monica Ali's novel, Brick Lane.

The book is about a Bangladeshi woman sent to London for an arranged marriage.

But some local Bangladeshis claim the novel insults them specifically, by being named after the street in which they live and work.

They say Ms Ali portrays Bangladeshis as uneducated and unsophisticated, and repeatedly mention a passage which they say has Bangladeshis coming over to England in the hold of a ship and with lice in their hair.

Yes, there is a problem with a gang culture among British youths; but it is not restricted to Muslim gangs; there are gangs from all races and religions. Gang Culture.

[The manic]

That was then This is now.

[The manic]

A lot of natives joined the army because they has nothing better to do, no skills, no education and no future except hard labour. The army offered them an excellent career path. They were grateful. This gratitude or commitment to Britain or even western life is lacking from most young muslims these days. Especially those from Pakistan. The UK suffers on so many levels as a result of the Islamification of some cities, the creation of no go areas, the increase in attacks on civil rights by the authorities to deal with the problems of having a determined third column in our midst to say nothing of the disgrace of the publicly audible call to prayer. An insult to rational beings.

[The manic]

Liberal apologists for muslim atrocities in contemporary society seem to know no shame. What happened nearly a hundred a years ago in the British Empire before the waves of mass immigration and swamping of European cities is irrelevant. A boy was attacked for selling remembrance day poppies for a charity. A manifestation of the creation of no go zones for the indigenous population of manybEuropean cities.

[The manic]

Well they are certainly making up for it now not just with attacks on British soldiers but on muslims civilians around the world. You can twist history all you want but why you should wish to do so on a forum based in a country which is a regular victim of muslim attacks and terrorist outrages is just plain insensitivity and political correctness gone mad.

[i claudius]

7by7. Said that there are no. No go areas in Britain,you didn't live in my old home town ,and after 8 years of dealing mainly with Muslims mainly Pakistani I can honestly say I have never met a more dishonest two faced bunch of people in my life, they have very little in the way of morals or integrate and that's just stating the facts as I have seen them

[7by7]

You can repeat the lie as often as you wish; it doesn't make it true.

There are no "No Go zones based on an ideology based as theology in the UK." in the UK!

Any one who tries to establish such a thing is acting illegally and dealt with under the law when/if reported to the authorities.

I know you refuse to believe that; but the evidence proves you wrong.

Another example to add to those previously posted.

'Muslim Patrol' jailed for harassing couple holding hands and men drinking in a bid to enforce Sharia law in East London

If you really know of such areas which are not being properly dealt with, then instead of moaning about them on an internet forum, get off of your arse and do you civic duty: report it to the police.

[7by7]

You can repeat the lie as often as you wish; it doesn't make it true.

There are no "No Go zones based on an ideology based as theology in the UK." in the UK!

Any one who tries to establish such a thing is acting illegally and dealt with under the law when/if reported to the authorities.

I know you refuse to believe that; but the evidence proves you wrong.

Another example to add to those previously posted.

'Muslim Patrol' jailed for harassing couple holding hands and men drinking in a bid to enforce Sharia law in East London

If you really know of such areas which are not being properly dealt with, then instead of moaning about them on an internet forum, get off of your arse and do you civic duty: report it to the police.

Bet you come from a nice quiet area of the UK just like my mum did ,only ever met one Indian Asian ,and he had run the corner store for 30 years .

Yes your reference to the interdiction of a 'muslim' patrol is correct but like with drug offences and burglary the police only catch about ten percent of the offenders. Thus the anti christian, anti white, anti western hate crimes often committed in No Go areas in parts of the UK and France by muslim youth are not dealt with. They are left unchallenged partly because people like you are in denial, and partly because of political correctness which has rendered our police ineffective. As for where I live or have lived: Would that you were correct. I wish!

If the offenders are not caught it is for many reasons; as with any other crime.

But the type of intimidation we are talking about is a crime and if reported the police do try and deal with it.

If they are unable to deal with all reported cases then it is not because of so called no go areas or political correctness; it is due to lack of evidence which will convict or, more often, lack of resources; just like every other crime they cannot solve.

It is this lack of resources you should be concerned about; not myths of no go areas dreamed up by the ultra right wing racists.

[JockPieandBeans]

If they are unable to deal with all reported cases then it is not because of so called no go areas or political correctness; it is due to lack of evidence which will convict or, more often, lack of resources; just like every other crime they cannot solve.

Extract your head from the sand. The official report into Rotherham, highlighted quite clearly the reasons action was not taken against certain communities.

The official figures put the Muslim Community in the UK at around 5% of the population.

The UK's top baby names of 2014 showed Mohammed has risen 27 places from last year to claim the number one spot for the boys, data carried out by website BabyCentre showed.

http://news.sky.com/story/1383350/britains-most-popular-boys-name-mohammed

Some going from 5% of the population. That is the problem of calculating the population on a census. You are reliant on people being honest. Flawed from the outset.

But hey, its all good in the hood.

[7by7]

You can repeat the lie as often as you wish; it doesn't make it true.

There are no "No Go zones based on an ideology based as theology in the UK." in the UK!

Any one who tries to establish such a thing is acting illegally and dealt with under the law when/if reported to the authorities.

I know you refuse to believe that; but the evidence proves you wrong.

Another example to add to those previously posted.

West Midlands Police Community Safety Officer jailed for conning Birmingham women

It is not the first time the 33 year-old has landed himself in trouble with his employers.

Two years ago he was reprimanded after he stopped two Christian preachers from handing out Bible extracts in the heart of the Muslim community in Alum Rock, Birmingham.

[7by7]

If they are unable to deal with all reported cases then it is not because of so called no go areas or political correctness; it is due to lack of evidence which will convict or, more often, lack of resources; just like every other crime they cannot solve.

Extract your head from the sand. The official report into Rotherham, highlighted quite clearly the reasons action was not taken against certain communities.

In that particular case; a fact which I have never denied and repeatedly condemned.

But that inexcusable inaction is not proof that these mythical police no go areas exist outside the minds of the BNP and similar.

Your remarks on the census result are too ridiculous to comment upon.

[JockPieandBeans]

If they are unable to deal with all reported cases then it is not because of so called no go areas or political correctness; it is due to lack of evidence which will convict or, more often, lack of resources; just like every other crime they cannot solve.

Extract your head from the sand. The official report into Rotherham, highlighted quite clearly the reasons action was not taken against certain communities.

In that particular case; a fact which I have never denied and repeatedly condemned.

But that inexcusable inaction is not proof that these mythical police no go areas exist outside the minds of the BNP and similar.

Your remarks on the census result are too ridiculous to comment upon.

Whether you choose to believe is irrelevant. There are no go areas in the UK. The reasons for that are many. They do exist and are not some figment of the imagination of the BNP and others.

They are too ridiculous to comment on ? How many Illegal Immigrants are there in the UK ? Do you have a figure ? Does the Government have a figure ? Do you think Illegal Immigrants entered their data on a census ? Do you think a whole raft of other undesirables volunteered their data to a census ?

Try educating yourself to the realities of life in the UK. You may not like them, but that's life.

[7by7]

You are getting more and more desperate as each of your myths are shot to pieces; go have a lie down.

Then, once rested, search for the evidence to substantiate you claim that the habitual residency test for EEA nationals is regularly scammed and fiddled.

I look forward to seeing your results in the relevant topic.

[Mosha]

You can repeat the lie as often as you wish; it doesn't make it true.

There are no "No Go zones based on an ideology based as theology in the UK." in the UK!

Any one who tries to establish such a thing is acting illegally and dealt with under the law when/if reported to the authorities.

I know you refuse to believe that; but the evidence proves you wrong.

Another example to add to those previously posted.

'Muslim Patrol' jailed for harassing couple holding hands and men drinking in a bid to enforce Sharia law in East London

If you really know of such areas which are not being properly dealt with, then instead of moaning about them on an internet forum, get off of your arse and do you civic duty: report it to the police.

Who in white minority areas will say "Please don't cause a fuss."

[JockPieandBeans]

It's very noticeable that those who pontificate the loudest about how bad life is in the UK for white people, about how immigrants in general, and Muslims in particular, are taking over, about how Muslims are making the streets unsafe for non Muslims, about how white people and the police cannot enter certain areas etc. don't actually live in the UK!

Perhaps you should ask yourself why we no longer in the UK !

[CharlieH]

A quantity of posts have been removed. Ranging from off topic, insults, racist, bating and totally irrelevant to the topic title.

[The manic]

It's very noticeable that those who pontificate the loudest about how bad life is in the UK for white people, about how immigrants in general, and Muslims in particular, are taking over, about how Muslims are making the streets unsafe for non Muslims, about how white people and the police cannot enter certain areas etc. don't actually live in the UK!

Perhaps you should ask yourself why we no longer in the UK !

Perhaps you should ask your self why there are any Pakistani communities in the UK?

[7by7]

Because we, the British, asked them to come to fill labour shortages or do the jobs native Brits didn't want!

From Wikipedia

Pakistanis were invited by employers to fill labour shortages which arose after the Second World War. As Commonwealth citizens, they were eligible for most British civic rights. They found employment in the textile industries of Lancashire and Yorkshire, manufacturing in the West Midlands, and car production and food processing industries of Luton and Slough. It was common for Pakistani employees to work on night shifts and at other less-desirable hours.[22]

Many Kashmiris began emigrating from Pakistan after the completion of Mangla Dam in Mirpur, Kashmir in the late 1950s led to the destruction of hundreds of villages. Up to 5,000 people from Mirpur (five per cent of the displaced)[23] left for Britain, while others were allotted land in neighbouring Punjab or used monetary compensation to resettle elsewhere in Pakistan.[21] The displaced Kashmiris were given legal and financial assistance by the British contractor which had built the dam.[24] Those from unaffected areas of Pakistan, such as the Punjab, also immigrated to Britain to help fill labour shortages. Punjabis began to leave Pakistan in the 1960s. They worked in the foundries of the English Midlands, and a significant number also settled in Southall in West London.[25]

During the 1960s, a considerable number of Pakistanis also arrived from urban areas. Many of these people were qualified teachers, doctors, and engineers.[22] They had a predisposition to settle in London due to its greater economic opportunities compared to the Midlands or the North of England.[22] Most medical staff from Pakistan were recruited in the 1960s and almost all worked for the National Health Service.[26] At the same time, the number of Pakistanis coming as workers declined.[21]

JPB, you have already told us why you don't live in the UK; it's because you don't want to pay UK tax!

Such patriotism!

[Scott]

I note that this topic has gotten into a circular argument and has gone extremely far off-topic. We are reaching the point where more posts are either being removed (or should have been removed) than are left on the open forum. The options are to issue warnings, which is the least attractive alternative or the topic can be...

//CLOSED//

(If there are relevant updates, feel free to send a PM to have it re-opened).