Police coy over new probe into Koh Tao murders

[PaPiPuPePo]

@ JD... JD you're correct. My opinion is speculation, but it's speculation that is speculated from a lifetime of experience. Indeed an indictment is possible, but I can't see it happening.

"My opinion is speculation, but it's speculation that is speculated from a lifetime of experience."

Hmmmm, if that meme is picked up on these threads, you guys will never hear the end of it.

Som nam na . . .

That's the statement that convinced me to add him to my ignore list. It's one thing to close your ears to other points of view, but quite another to turn off a speaker blaring nonesense and propaganda.

[jdinasia]

The implication is that the three times rejection suggests that there is not enough proof to indict. I don't want to bat balls across with you, find someone else to hassle.

Not enough is a far cry from "without a shred of proof", in fact asking for more details is not uncommon in Thailand.

More accurate to say that there is not enough evidence. If there were so much as "a shred of prood" then I am sure the prosecutor would have taken the case to court.

Then you are ignoring the words of the same people you imply are doing the right thing.

There is not enough evidence, i.e. there is not a shred of proof.

As the prosecution has said that there is evidence, you have it wrong.

Not a shred =total absence

[jdinasia]

Your friends tried to set him up, but could not even get that right " oooppppsssss we put Davids blood stained shorts in the wrong bag"

This evening I listened to the interesting ranting of a veteran of Koh Tao and full moon parties. He has friends who know the island and the set up too well and they are very angry. Apparently the first suspect in this case was responsibe for the murders and according to this guy the feeling is now one of revenge against the headman and those responsible for the deaths.

Why would anyone think Chris Ware was guilty? Or was he second?

Thanks for demonstrating a total lack of knowledge. No blood stains.

BTW I have no friends involved in this investigation.

Edited November 6, 2014 by jdinasia

[PaPiPuPePo]

That picture alone would negate the possibility of a fair trial in any country in the world with a proper justice system.

What is it with the pictures of alleged offenders being paraded in front of the media, never seen anything quite like it in any other country.

Your kidding right? The "perp walk" is a time honored tradition in the US and many many other countries.

That's just about as weak an attempt at making an equivalence as the Oswald/JFK post.

First, "perp walks" aren't done that often, and they refer to walking the suspect from point to point in a place he/she can be clearly seen by the public and cameras, so while incriminating, which is why they've come under increasing criticism and probably why they're not that common any more (and only for hi-profile cases, unlike in Thailand), they're hardly the same as these reenactments. And the reenactments are done as a matter of course in any kind of serious case.

Try again.

[BritTim]

As the prosecution has said that there is evidence, you have it wrong.

Not a shred =total absence

Is this true? Do you have a link to a reliable source where the prosecutor confirms reliable evidence?

It seems quite possible that the prosecutor is giving the police every opportunity to produce some evidence, but that nothing credible has been presented thus far.

[jdinasia]

See the OP of the threads when the prosecution asks for more information.

[joecoolfrog]

Adamtwilley

I do very much symphathise with your position , let me know when you start busking in Chumphon , I will sort you out with a train ticket.

[BritTim]

See the OP of the threads when the prosecution asks for more information.

If you are referring to this thread, then the (admittedly unconfirmed) contention in this Nation article appears to be that the Justice Ministry is of the same opinion as most others that a fresh investigation is needed. If confirmed, this would cast doubt, would it not, on your contention that the prosecutors are looking at credible evidence that the two Burmese kids are guilty?

[Bleacher Bum East]

Official DNA test results have showed his son was not involved in the murders.

As far as I remember- it only showed his son was not involved in the rape...

Using your logic, all the people tested for DNA matches on the island should only be cleared of sexual assault/rape charges. They are all still murder suspects.

Interesting.

A reliable DNA match only proves one thing for certain---that the person left fluids on or came in contact with whatever surface the DNA was found on. But a reliable DNA match from the semen of someone who didn't know Hannah would certainly make that person a prime suspect for sexual assault.

The lack of a reliable DNA match proves nothing and clears nobody of anything---unless some other persons are proven to be guilty and it is also proven that nobody else was involved. It remains entirely possible that anybody whose DNA did not match the DNA found in the semen, on the hoe, or on the cigarette still committed sexual assault and/or murder. And yes, that means anybody on the island was still possibly involved in these crimes. But no, that does not mean that everybody on the island is a murder suspect---not being cleared does not mean you are a suspect.

However, if a thorough and reliable Touch DNA analysis was performed on Hannah's skin and clothing, and none was found to match a particular person tested and the semen DNA did not match as well, then that would significantly reduce the likelihood that the person tested was involved in the sexual assault ---but it would not entirely eliminate the possibility.

This is true of any investigation, anywhere in the world. It is not unique to this case on Koh Tao Island in Thailand.

And this is not inference, or speculation. It is fact.

[phrisco17]

That picture alone would negate the possibility of a fair trial in any country in the world with a proper justice system.

What is it with the pictures of alleged offenders being paraded in front of the media, never seen anything quite like it in any other country.

Along with forced acting out of the crime for the public and published in the newspaper and aired on TV.

[soundman]

Abusive post removed. Try to post in a civil manner thanks.

[kiwikeith]

"Official DNA test results have showed his son was not involved in the murders."

No it doesn't. It shows that he was not involved in any sexual misconduct.

I thought it showed he was a non smoker.

Didn't the article about the testing say they tested his DNA against DNA on a cigarette butt found on the beach.

Can anyone enlighten what they actually checked his supposed DNA against?

I wonder if the British police have samples of DNA from the poor murdered soles RIP.

The whole thing is a soap opera now and Thais love soapies.

[greenchair]

Reported where? Samples taken by a hospital employee..

Ha! I beat you to that one...

The RTP gave the original DNA samples to the Headman to keep in his fridge. He supplied the DNA samples to the RTP for the media to 'prove' his son was innocent. This has been reported, and I'm nor going to troll back for proof. Up to you, believe it or not. But if anyone still believes that the B2 are guilty watch this re-enactment scene. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-suspects-reenact-4370944

I have never seen a report stating that the crime scene DNA was stored in the headmans fridge.

I have seen the reenactments

JD - it came out in more than one report on this latest test that samples were kept in the headman's fridge. Of course it could be untrue, and I accept that. But it could also be true, and logical given the crime scene location.

Source????

[Soutpeel]

Adamtwilley

I do very much symphathise with your position , let me know when you start busking in Chumphon , I will sort you out with a train ticket.

I will donate a 12 pack of mamma noodles to help the cause, pm me with the address they need sending to

[hobz]

Your friends tried to set him up, but could not even get that right " oooppppsssss we put Davids blood stained shorts in the wrong bag"

This evening I listened to the interesting ranting of a veteran of Koh Tao and full moon parties. He has friends who know the island and the set up too well and they are very angry. Apparently the first suspect in this case was responsibe for the murders and according to this guy the feeling is now one of revenge against the headman and those responsible for the deaths.

Why would anyone think Chris Ware was guilty? Or was he second?

It wasn't blood, they were stained with something else.. and he was cleared when they noticed that..

[hobz]

Can somebody explain why media reported the police chief saying that Nom Sod and Mon was captured on multiple CCTV's around the crime scene that night ... ?

[SteveFong]

The village headman should keep his mouth shut and stop calling press conferences for his sons justice. He should be calling for open justice to the two murders that occured on his island and on his watch. Shows him in his true light.

no, no, it is the exact opposite,

the more press conferences and the more they speak, the more that is revealed,

let him speak,

it is very possible his son has nothing to do with it

but the more they protest, the more they feed the UK detectives

[IslandLover]

hoyism, on 06 Nov 2014 - 03:45, said:

"The Guardian already reported that the UK Foreign Office have summoned the Thai consulate in London to convey their suspicions (concerns) that this whole investigation has been fudged to save tourism"

This story and everything that's going in within it has reached households in the UK, only yesterday a family member in London told me everything we've all been talking about on here, what-ever the outcome this will not be forgotten and will for sure put off all those easily scared middle-class "quality tourists" they're so desperate to attract from coming to places like Koh Tao and Haad Rin.

I happened to meet a "hiso" Thai lady in Oxford, U.K. the other day whose boyfriend owns an upmarket resort on Koh Tao (not on Sairee beach). She told me that everyone there thinks the 2 Burmese are scapegoats and that the real murderers are still at large. I did not initiate the conversation about the murders, instead she asked me if I had ever been to Koh Tao and it progressed from there. Her theories agreed with most people's on this forum. Thais and British alike are all thinking the same thing.

[SteveFong]

"Official DNA test results have showed his son was not involved in the murders."

No it doesn't. It shows that he was not involved in any sexual misconduct.

It doesn't SHOW anything. The only people who have the DNA typing from the crime are one or a few top police brass. It would be easy for them (and would fit hand in glove with their cover-up) to make a photocopy of the Burmeses' DNA cards, and re-label them 'DNA from crime scene.' Who's going to challenge that? Is anyone going to go up to the top cop and demand to see verification?

As for Burmese officials asking for 'new crime probe' or whatever. That's easy for Thai officials to scoff off. All they have to do is put a hand on the Burmese officials shoulder and say with a grin, "don't worry, we've got everything under control. Heck, we're doing such a good job, we don't even need to share DNA info with the British observers. If the British aren't complaining, why should you? Hey, come on friend, let's go get some whiskey, I've got cartons of Johnny Walker at my house, just don't ask me where I got it from, ha ha ha."

didn't the Myammar government just receive a "demand" from the Thai police, to arrest people on their soil, for the Thai's?

did I miss something, or does Myammar now have somethings, and some people that the Thai's want?

this is getting more interesting by the day

[jdinasia]

hoyism, on 06 Nov 2014 - 03:45, said:

"The Guardian already reported that the UK Foreign Office have summoned the Thai consulate in London to convey their suspicions (concerns) that this whole investigation has been fudged to save tourism"

This story and everything that's going in within it has reached households in the UK, only yesterday a family member in London told me everything we've all been talking about on here, what-ever the outcome this will not be forgotten and will for sure put off all those easily scared middle-class "quality tourists" they're so desperate to attract from coming to places like Koh Tao and Haad Rin.

I happened to meet a "hiso" Thai lady in Oxford, U.K. the other day whose boyfriend owns an upmarket resort on Koh Tao (not on Sairee beach). She told me that everyone there thinks the 2 Burmese are scapegoats and that the real murderers are still at large. I did not initiate the conversation about the murders, instead she asked me if I had ever been to Koh Tao and it progressed from there. Her theories agreed with most people's on this forum. Thais and British alike are all thinking the same thing.

An entirely plausible story!

Random meeting in a foreign country.

Boyfriend owns a resort on a tiny island.

She brings up a murder and agrees with the conspiracy theorists.

[buhi]

But, But why would they re-open the ' perfect ' case and even the British observers said the investigation was carried out exactly as they would conducted it. Well that's the Thai version anyway.

Oh wait, the state prosecutors don't seem to be too happy.

What to do ? Decisions, decisions and making them isn't exactly a Thai thing.

No in fact thew british Police have said nothing, it is the Thai that stated the British police agreed with how the investigation was investigated NOT the British. The UK Police are doing what they were allowed to do, view , not interfere and report back to the UK, that is what they have done, what they saw or think is shrouded in secrecy.

....as it should be in a criminal case.

British police use their textbook when investigating a murder.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-29931269

Note area cordoned off and no statements by the police, press have limited information, as it should be.

Perhaps something was lost in translation with the Thai copies of British police textbooks!

[Beng]

The guy in the light blue shirt can be seen on many pics. Who is he ?? Seems the two boys are scared of him.

Could he be the interpreter ??

[SteveFong]

Rejected

is is exactly what has happened,

a case being given back to police as unprosecutable means is has been "rejected"

interesting word too, as "rejection" was what the RTP was the motive in this case,

when they were still hunting the man who fled on the speedboat,

and those who aided and abetted his escape

[thailandchilli]

hoyism, on 06 Nov 2014 - 03:45, said:

"The Guardian already reported that the UK Foreign Office have summoned the Thai consulate in London to convey their suspicions (concerns) that this whole investigation has been fudged to save tourism"

This story and everything that's going in within it has reached households in the UK, only yesterday a family member in London told me everything we've all been talking about on here, what-ever the outcome this will not be forgotten and will for sure put off all those easily scared middle-class "quality tourists" they're so desperate to attract from coming to places like Koh Tao and Haad Rin.

I happened to meet a "hiso" Thai lady in Oxford, U.K. the other day whose boyfriend owns an upmarket resort on Koh Tao (not on Sairee beach). She told me that everyone there thinks the 2 Burmese are scapegoats and that the real murderers are still at large. I did not initiate the conversation about the murders, instead she asked me if I had ever been to Koh Tao and it progressed from there. Her theories agreed with most people's on this forum. Thais and British alike are all thinking the same thing.

An entirely plausible story!

Random meeting in a foreign country.

Boyfriend owns a resort on a tiny island.

She brings up a murder and agrees with the conspiracy theorists.

Certainly more plausible then the one being put out by the RTP!

[joebrown]

hoyism, on 06 Nov 2014 - 03:45, said:

"The Guardian already reported that the UK Foreign Office have summoned the Thai consulate in London to convey their suspicions (concerns) that this whole investigation has been fudged to save tourism"

This story and everything that's going in within it has reached households in the UK, only yesterday a family member in London told me everything we've all been talking about on here, what-ever the outcome this will not be forgotten and will for sure put off all those easily scared middle-class "quality tourists" they're so desperate to attract from coming to places like Koh Tao and Haad Rin.

I happened to meet a "hiso" Thai lady in Oxford, U.K. the other day whose boyfriend owns an upmarket resort on Koh Tao (not on Sairee beach). She told me that everyone there thinks the 2 Burmese are scapegoats and that the real murderers are still at large. I did not initiate the conversation about the murders, instead she asked me if I had ever been to Koh Tao and it progressed from there. Her theories agreed with most people's on this forum. Thais and British alike are all thinking the same thing.

An entirely plausible story!

Random meeting in a foreign country.

Boyfriend owns a resort on a tiny island.

She brings up a murder and agrees with the conspiracy theorists.

A post that has a ring of truth about it!

Boyfriend owns a resort on Koh Tao. She initiates the Koh Tao murders conversation, and says many Koh Tao people think the 2 Burmese are scapegoats.

An entirely plausible story.

(I included the name Koh Tao, as you seemed to forget the name of the small island where the murders took place)

Edited November 7, 2014 by joebrown

[jdinasia]

hoyism, on 06 Nov 2014 - 03:45, said:

"The Guardian already reported that the UK Foreign Office have summoned the Thai consulate in London to convey their suspicions (concerns) that this whole investigation has been fudged to save tourism"

This story and everything that's going in within it has reached households in the UK, only yesterday a family member in London told me everything we've all been talking about on here, what-ever the outcome this will not be forgotten and will for sure put off all those easily scared middle-class "quality tourists" they're so desperate to attract from coming to places like Koh Tao and Haad Rin.

I happened to meet a "hiso" Thai lady in Oxford, U.K. the other day whose boyfriend owns an upmarket resort on Koh Tao (not on Sairee beach). She told me that everyone there thinks the 2 Burmese are scapegoats and that the real murderers are still at large. I did not initiate the conversation about the murders, instead she asked me if I had ever been to Koh Tao and it progressed from there. Her theories agreed with most people's on this forum. Thais and British alike are all thinking the same thing.

An entirely plausible story!

Random meeting in a foreign country.

Boyfriend owns a resort on a tiny island.

She brings up a murder and agrees with the conspiracy theorists.

Certainly more plausible then the one being put out by the RTP!

Obviously. Meeting someone with a connection to one of 10 up market resorts in a city of millions, 1000's of miles away who shares your views....

[jdinasia]

hoyism, on 06 Nov 2014 - 03:45, said:

"The Guardian already reported that the UK Foreign Office have summoned the Thai consulate in London to convey their suspicions (concerns) that this whole investigation has been fudged to save tourism"

This story and everything that's going in within it has reached households in the UK, only yesterday a family member in London told me everything we've all been talking about on here, what-ever the outcome this will not be forgotten and will for sure put off all those easily scared middle-class "quality tourists" they're so desperate to attract from coming to places like Koh Tao and Haad Rin.

I happened to meet a "hiso" Thai lady in Oxford, U.K. the other day whose boyfriend owns an upmarket resort on Koh Tao (not on Sairee beach). She told me that everyone there thinks the 2 Burmese are scapegoats and that the real murderers are still at large. I did not initiate the conversation about the murders, instead she asked me if I had ever been to Koh Tao and it progressed from there. Her theories agreed with most people's on this forum. Thais and British alike are all thinking the same thing.

An entirely plausible story!

Random meeting in a foreign country.

Boyfriend owns a resort on a tiny island.

She brings up a murder and agrees with the conspiracy theorists.

A post that has a ring of truth about it!

Boyfriend owns a resort on Koh Tao. She initiates the Koh Tao murders conversation, and says many Koh Tao people think the 2 Burmese are scapegoats.

An entirely plausible story.

(I included the name Koh Tao, as you seemed to forget the name of the small island where the murders took place)

Not impossible, but not likely if you do the math.

[thailandchilli]

Jdinasia@ Obviously. Meeting someone with a connection to one of 10 up market resorts in a city of millions, 1000's of miles away who shares your views....

Try getting your facts right JD, please tell me where you got this fantasy figure of millions of people in Oxford UK. The last count in 2011 was a population of just 150,000. In that figure there is a very large Thai community, I know I used to live and work there many years ago.

[BoristheBlade]

Is the term innocent until proven guilty applicable in Thailand?

If so can some please explain the picture published yesterday in the press, of the two accused men in leg shackles

Thailand hang your head in shame

[boomerangutang]

that would mean losing face and THAT will never happen

Thai officialdom has already lost 9 cubic yards of face (the whole 9 yards). Regardless of what twists and turns ensue, Thai brass will either lose a lot more face or lose a whole heck of a lot more face. They've painted themselves in to a corner, and there's no way out without getting the soles of their shoes further sullied, and tracking it throughout the building.

The clincher was when Thai top brass announced recently, in effect; "We have the DNA results for the headman's son now. We won't share the results with the British observers because they already know we're doing a great job, so they don't need to see the results."

There should be a new term invented for what Thai officials have recently been doing: Having press conferences and speaking for another country's leader. Earlier, we had the Thai PM saying things like,

>>>> "The British think we're doing an excellent investigation."

>>>> "I made an agreement with the British PM, to allow some British experts as 'observers only.'" (not true. The Brit PM wanted British experts to assist with the investigation, not sitting on the sidelines or looking over the shoulders of Thai investigators, as only 'observers')

suggestions for new terms: 'diplobull' or 'diplospeak' or 'diplocrap'