British police examining Koh Tao murder probe to return to UK

[SteveFong]

One more thing with the military. They are starting to affect the lives of 1000's of ordinary Thai folk. The area I live over the last few days is undergoing , what I can only describe as a military spring clean. Several hundred local, mainly poor Thai businesses have simply been told to go.

The result....a lovely clean place, but some very seriously p*** off locals, who are far from impressed.

what does that mean?

you are stating it is the military and not the police that are "clearing out" certain areas?

please elaborate

[SteveFong]

I know dive masters (2, Thai) and have friends there that own businesses.

Not strange as I am a diver and have lived in Thailand for well over a decade.

That doesn't make a vested interest.

Your accusation is harassment, and I avoid throwing that term around on here.

You forgot the 'professional people' you mentioned in previous posts. Yes it does make a 'vested interest'

I would say harassment is a term that could be made against you with your "conspiracy theory' one liners to any post you disagree with.

substitute the word "objection"

for "conspiracy" and we might have an idea of why this guy is so "interested" in egging people on

[catsanddogs]

Another poor bugger fallen off some balcony in Koh Tao, but not dead hopefully -

http://www.samuitimes.com/dutch-tourist-evacuated-koh-tao-falling-second-floor-guests-house/

Edited November 12, 2014 by catsanddogs

[SteveFong]

my first thought was, it was the Koh Tao pancake torturing interpreter

That place can't stay out of the news if they tried

Has that guy been seen since, or is he back in Myammar building a new house?

[jdinasia]

my first thought was, it was the Koh Tao pancake torturing interpreter

That place can't stay out of the news if they tried

Has that guy been seen since, or is he back in Myammar building a new house?

More rumor mongering

[siampolee]

jdinasia post # 275

More rumor mongering

Exactly .

Just the same as the police stating that the two Myanmar boys were, are the killers.

[AGareth2]

it was a dutch guy I believe

[Soutpeel]

You are apparently not able to understand what a vested interest is. Your continued assertion that I have vested interests is just an extension of your other conspiracy theories and just as sad as those theories.

As far as I am aware there are no cheap businesses on the island but it doesn't follow that that is your goal.

Lets phrase it this way then, your interest in this case, along with a few other members of the RTP Glee club, goes way beyond just debate and discussion of the topic, this is evident from the posts both yourself and and other members of the "Glee" club make on TV...

Call it "vested interest", call it "conflict of interest" call it what ever you want, but what is very obvious reading the vast majority of the posts by the "Glee Club" there is an agenda being played...

it has already been stated on one of the threads that one member of the Glee club apparently has a telephone shop on KT, you yourself have admitted direct connections to people on KT, so the links are there, further every time KT and this case are even mentioned in a thread, even if not directly a "KT murder" thread you or other members of the "Glee club" are in there posting stuff "in defense" of the RTP, you seen to be at a point of obsession with these murders and one can only question why ?, what is the motive people have posting what they do ?

therefore based on circumstantial evidence, one could conclude that the members of the RTP Glee club, including your good self, do have a vested interest in some shape or form

and this time, don't remark about "financial gain" being a criteria for defining "conflict of interest" its not the only criteria...

Edited November 13, 2014 by Soutpeel

[BoristheBlade]

Yes soldiers in full uniform, and taking no sh*t from ayone

It was quite a sight, very effective, but in all honesty a little heavy handed in my opinion.

The locals are very restless, it's hit them hard in their pockets!

One more thing with the military. They are starting to affect the lives of 1000's of ordinary Thai folk. The area I live over the last few days is undergoing , what I can only describe as a military spring clean. Several hundred local, mainly poor Thai businesses have simply been told to go.

The result....a lovely clean place, but some very seriously p*** off locals, who are far from impressed.

what does that mean?

you are stating it is the military and not the police that are "clearing out" certain areas?

please elaborate

[jdinasia]

You are apparently not able to understand what a vested interest is. Your continued assertion that I have vested interests is just an extension of your other conspiracy theories and just as sad as those theories.

As far as I am aware there are no cheap businesses on the island but it doesn't follow that that is your goal.

Lets phrase it this way then, your interest in this case, along with a few other members of the RTP Glee club, goes way beyond just debate and discussion of the topic, this is evident from the posts both yourself and and other members of the "Glee" club make on TV...

Call it "vested interest", call it "conflict of interest" call it what ever you want, but what is very obvious reading the vast majority of the posts by the "Glee Club" there is an agenda being played...

it has already been stated on one of the threads that one member of the Glee club apparently has a telephone shop on KT, you yourself have admitted direct connections to people on KT, so the links are there, further every time KT and this case are even mentioned in a thread, even if not directly a "KT murder" thread you or other members of the "Glee club" are in there posting stuff "in defense" of the RTP, you seen to be at a point of obsession with these murders and one can only question why ?, what is the motive people have posting what they do ?

therefore based on circumstantial evidence, one could conclude that the members of the RTP Glee club, including your good self, do have a vested interest in some shape or form

and this time, don't remark about "financial gain" being a criteria for defining "conflict of interest" its not the only criteria...

Why does anyone post? I have experience on the island. I think conspiracy theorists deny justice to others. I think defamation is inappropriate.

I gain nothing.

To suppose that people post for gain of any format opens it up to supposing the conspiracy theorists have business interests that benefit from casting doubt on others.

Attacking a poster is simply deflection to avoid the content of the post.

Edited November 13, 2014 by jdinasia

[Soutpeel]

You are apparently not able to understand what a vested interest is. Your continued assertion that I have vested interests is just an extension of your other conspiracy theories and just as sad as those theories.

As far as I am aware there are no cheap businesses on the island but it doesn't follow that that is your goal.

Lets phrase it this way then, your interest in this case, along with a few other members of the RTP Glee club, goes way beyond just debate and discussion of the topic, this is evident from the posts both yourself and and other members of the "Glee" club make on TV...

Call it "vested interest", call it "conflict of interest" call it what ever you want, but what is very obvious reading the vast majority of the posts by the "Glee Club" there is an agenda being played...

it has already been stated on one of the threads that one member of the Glee club apparently has a telephone shop on KT, you yourself have admitted direct connections to people on KT, so the links are there, further every time KT and this case are even mentioned in a thread, even if not directly a "KT murder" thread you or other members of the "Glee club" are in there posting stuff "in defense" of the RTP, you seen to be at a point of obsession with these murders and one can only question why ?, what is the motive people have posting what they do ?

therefore based on circumstantial evidence, one could conclude that the members of the RTP Glee club, including your good self, do have a vested interest in some shape or form

and this time, don't remark about "financial gain" being a criteria for defining "conflict of interest" its not the only criteria...

Why does anyone post? I have experience on the island. I think conspiracy theorists deny justice to others. I think defamation is inappropriate.

I gain nothing.

To suppose that people post for gain of any format opens it up to supposing the conspiracy theorists have business interests that benefit from casting doubt on others.

Why are you bringing up "conspiracy theories" in response to my comments ? I mentioned nothing about any theories, conspiracy or otherwise...the comments related to "agenda's and vested interests"

your constant retort of "conspiracy theory" all the time reminds me a lot of the posters during the demonstrations in BKK, irrespective of what was being discussed felt obligated to write "Suthep is a Fascist" in every post.

both sides of the fence on this case are posting theories, speculation, and opinion including yourself and other members of the Glee Club.

We have two very extreme opposing views on this case, one view point from the so called "conspiracy theorists" and the other view point from the "RTP Glee club", one supposes when the true story comes out, if it ever does, I think you will find the reality will be somewhere in between these view points, the CT where correct on some points and the Glee club correct on some points

Until the that time comes, let just say both sides of the fence are posting opinions and speculation and a little less of the conspiracy theory accusations from the Glee club, as quite franky there is horse sh*t being written from both camps IMHO

[thailandchilli]

In light of the appalling mess of the so called investigation by the RTP its human nature to speculate. Its human nature to question whats really going on, its human nature to look for alternative theories based on the incredible cock up the RTP have made of this on every level.

We are not robots conditioned to obey the RTP line. We have education and intelligence that teaches us to ask questions and be critical. The RTP have now realized that Thai people because of social media are now also doing this.

Some of the theories posted on here are way off the mark, but some seem more than plausible and in the absence of a trusted RTP investigation then those who question and demand the truth will continue.

The RTP club labels this as 'conspiracy theroy' and attacks posts with this as its only defense. Very easy and very lazy to do so. As a result they themselves illicit these so called attacks on them.

They would gain much more respect if they actually debated the issues rather than take the RTP line in this, ie we have suspects and once charged they will be taken to court, full stop, anyone who disagrees is a conspiracy theorist!

Edited November 13, 2014 by thailandchilli

[spacebass]

There cannot be any 'truth' in Thailand.

[BoristheBlade]

The truth is unacceptable in this country, always in denial

[jdinasia]

Will reply after my next meeting, but you answer your own questions when you describe "2 camps"

[srchino]

Why are you still trying to prove this? We all already believe that anyone defending the integrity of the investigation has some surreptitious reason for doing so.

The 'Glee Club' as you call it has already dug in its heels for whatever reasons. They're not gonna own up to any conflict of interest or what have you at this point. Just ignore them. [emoji6]

You are apparently not able to understand what a vested interest is. Your continued assertion that I have vested interests is just an extension of your other conspiracy theories and just as sad as those theories.

As far as I am aware there are no cheap businesses on the island but it doesn't follow that that is your goal.

Lets phrase it this way then, your interest in this case, along with a few other members of the RTP Glee club, goes way beyond just debate and discussion of the topic, this is evident from the posts both yourself and and other members of the "Glee" club make on TV...

Call it "vested interest", call it "conflict of interest" call it what ever you want, but what is very obvious reading the vast majority of the posts by the "Glee Club" there is an agenda being played...

it has already been stated on one of the threads that one member of the Glee club apparently has a telephone shop on KT, you yourself have admitted direct connections to people on KT, so the links are there, further every time KT and this case are even mentioned in a thread, even if not directly a "KT murder" thread you or other members of the "Glee club" are in there posting stuff "in defense" of the RTP, you seen to be at a point of obsession with these murders and one can only question why ?, what is the motive people have posting what they do ?

therefore based on circumstantial evidence, one could conclude that the members of the RTP Glee club, including your good self, do have a vested interest in some shape or form

and this time, don't remark about "financial gain" being a criteria for defining "conflict of interest" its not the only criteria...

[Thaddeus]

You are apparently not able to understand what a vested interest is. Your continued assertion that I have vested interests is just an extension of your other conspiracy theories and just as sad as those theories.

As far as I am aware there are no cheap businesses on the island but it doesn't follow that that is your goal.

Lets phrase it this way then, your interest in this case, along with a few other members of the RTP Glee club, goes way beyond just debate and discussion of the topic, this is evident from the posts both yourself and and other members of the "Glee" club make on TV...

Call it "vested interest", call it "conflict of interest" call it what ever you want, but what is very obvious reading the vast majority of the posts by the "Glee Club" there is an agenda being played...

it has already been stated on one of the threads that one member of the Glee club apparently has a telephone shop on KT, you yourself have admitted direct connections to people on KT, so the links are there, further every time KT and this case are even mentioned in a thread, even if not directly a "KT murder" thread you or other members of the "Glee club" are in there posting stuff "in defense" of the RTP, you seen to be at a point of obsession with these murders and one can only question why ?, what is the motive people have posting what they do ?

therefore based on circumstantial evidence, one could conclude that the members of the RTP Glee club, including your good self, do have a vested interest in some shape or form

and this time, don't remark about "financial gain" being a criteria for defining "conflict of interest" its not the only criteria...

Why does anyone post? I have experience on the island. I think conspiracy theorists deny justice to others. I think defamation is inappropriate.

I gain nothing.

To suppose that people post for gain of any format opens it up to supposing the conspiracy theorists have business interests that benefit from casting doubt on others.

Attacking a poster is simply deflection to avoid the content of the post.

The time for gaining anything from this situation is long gone.

Losing something is on the cards though.

[jdinasia]

In light of the appalling mess of the so called investigation by the RTP its human nature to speculate. Its human nature to question whats really going on, its human nature to look for alternative theories based on the incredible cock up the RTP have made of this on every level.

We are not robots conditioned to obey the RTP line. We have education and intelligence that teaches us to ask questions and be critical. The RTP have now realized that Thai people because of social media are now also doing this.

Some of the theories posted on here are way off the mark, but some seem more than plausible and in the absence of a trusted RTP investigation then those who question and demand the truth will continue.

The RTP club labels this as 'conspiracy theroy' and attacks posts with this as its only defense. Very easy and very lazy to do so. As a result they themselves illicit these so called attacks on them.

They would gain much more respect if they actually debated the issues rather than take the RTP line in this, ie we have suspects and once charged they will be taken to court, full stop, anyone who disagrees is a conspiracy theorist!

There is nothing lazy about calling a conspiracy theory out for what it is.

I am unaware of any person on TVF saying that there are no issues with the RTP investigation.

What IS clear is that many people are claiming to "know exactly what happened" or "everyone knows exactly who did it "...

Those claims are patently untrue.

What we do know is that the RTP has conducted an investigation. The 2 Burmese men accused of being the killers have a legal team to defend them.

The 2 Burmese men confessed more than one time. One confession was to a member of the NHRC.

What is needed now is a trial with a vigorous defense, not more conspiracy theories.

[jdinasia]

You are apparently not able to understand what a vested interest is. Your continued assertion that I have vested interests is just an extension of your other conspiracy theories and just as sad as those theories.

As far as I am aware there are no cheap businesses on the island but it doesn't follow that that is your goal.

Lets phrase it this way then, your interest in this case, along with a few other members of the RTP Glee club, goes way beyond just debate and discussion of the topic, this is evident from the posts both yourself and and other members of the "Glee" club make on TV...

Call it "vested interest", call it "conflict of interest" call it what ever you want, but what is very obvious reading the vast majority of the posts by the "Glee Club" there is an agenda being played...

it has already been stated on one of the threads that one member of the Glee club apparently has a telephone shop on KT, you yourself have admitted direct connections to people on KT, so the links are there, further every time KT and this case are even mentioned in a thread, even if not directly a "KT murder" thread you or other members of the "Glee club" are in there posting stuff "in defense" of the RTP, you seen to be at a point of obsession with these murders and one can only question why ?, what is the motive people have posting what they do ?

therefore based on circumstantial evidence, one could conclude that the members of the RTP Glee club, including your good self, do have a vested interest in some shape or form

and this time, don't remark about "financial gain" being a criteria for defining "conflict of interest" its not the only criteria...

Why does anyone post? I have experience on the island. I think conspiracy theorists deny justice to others. I think defamation is inappropriate.

I gain nothing.

To suppose that people post for gain of any format opens it up to supposing the conspiracy theorists have business interests that benefit from casting doubt on others.

Attacking a poster is simply deflection to avoid the content of the post.

The time for gaining anything from this situation is long gone.

Losing something is on the cards though.

Nothing for me to lose either.

[AGareth2]

Will reply after my next meeting, but you answer your own questions when you describe "2 camps"

thought you were a teacher?

[jdinasia]

Will reply after my next meeting, but you answer your own questions when you describe "2 camps"

thought you were a teacher?

I am not the topic, but one of my duties does include teaching.

[Dogmatix]

Since a number of people have expressed interest in the autopsy report, I have taken the trouble to translate the one page extract from the report that has been posted online. It is unverified and lacks the preamble and signature pages among other things but is consistent with media reports that have appeared and seems likely to be genuine.

" Page 3

4.1.1. Severe injuries to the head and face caused by a hard blunt instrument consistent with the item referred to in the report (hoe found at the crime scene).

4.1.2. The area of the vagina exhibited signs of sexual assault.

4.1.3. Results of toxology.

4.1.3.1. No traces of psychotropics or psychoactive substances in the urine or blood.

4.1.3.2. No toxins from food found in the digestive tract.

4.1.4. Results of biochemical analysis.

4.1.4.1. In the area of the right nipple DNA was found from two individuals, Mr B and Mr C (assigned names).

4.1.4.2. Inside the vagina semen and DNA of Mr B was found.

4.1.4.3. In the vulva semen and DNA of Mr B and Mr C was found.

4.1.4. Cause of death. Severe injuries to the head and face caused by violent blows from a blunt instrument.

4.2. Autopsy report on the body of Mr David William Miller.

4.2.1. Severe injuries to the head and face caused by a hard blunt instrument consistent with the item referred in the report (hoe found at the crime scene).

4.2.2. No signs of sexual assault.

4.2.3. Water found in both sides of the chest cavity. Water induced swelling in both lungs.

4.2.4. Results of toxology.

4.2.4.1. No traces of psychotropics or other psychoactive substances in the urine or blood.

4.2.4.2. No toxins from food found in the digestive tract.

4.2.5. Results of biochemical analysis. No semen found in the anus. "

In the widely vewed interview with Sorayud on Channel 3 that can be found on Youtube, the deputy commander of the Institute of Forensic Science at the Police General Hospital, Police Colonel Dr Bhavat Prateepvisrut presented findings from the autopsy that seem identical to this report.

Bhavat Channel 3.jpg

On 12 October Komchadluek also published an article that reported on the results of the autopsy using the same language as the extract that is translated above.

In addition, Komchadluek also reported that the police had explained the reason why they thought there was no DNA found inside the condom found at the scene with Hanna's blood on the outside. According to Komchadluek, police said that the condom was probably an old one left on the beach and that the blood on the outside of it was dripped from the hoe while the perpetrators were using it to murder her.

I am confused about this theory about the condom as I was under the impression that the condom was found at the spot where David's clothes and a large spatter of David's blood were found, whereas most of Hannah's blood was found by the rock where her body was found but I may be wrong on this point.

Thanks for the time and effort you've put into this. I'm hoping we're not going to have a troll come along to try and discredit it

I think the report you posted could not be the entire official forensic autopsy report for the following reasons:

The official report must surely contain a "touch DNA" analysis of Hannah and David's clothing and bodies, which would surely show that at least they had each other's DNA on their bodies and clothes if they were in fact in close contact, and would also show the DNA of anybody else that had touched their clothing (surely the perpetrator of the rape) and grabbed their bodies.

The official report must surely contain a toxicology analysis of Hannah and David's hair . . . because date rape drugs dissipate very quickly in the blood and urine, and a hair analysis is the only way to confirm or eliminate the presence of date rape drugs--- and a hair analysis can be done for a month or more afterwards and still get accurate results.

The official report must surely contain a detailed forensics analysis of the wounds, including size and angle of attack, etc. as well as an analysis of the material that caused the wounds ( a jagged weapon would leave a certain type of wound; a glass or wood, etc. would leave tiny shards or splinters behind). And since the initial comments by the director of forensics and police after the forensic autopsy was performed stated that they believed a second metalic weapon was used on David, the forensic analysis would opine as to the nature of that weapon.

The official report must surely contain an analysis of any defensive wounds on Hannah and David's body.

• If Hannah had zero defensive wounds including bruises, then that would tell you in all probability she wasn't even restrained before being killed as well as raped.
• If David did have defensive wounds including bruises on his back and wounds on his hands, and therefore probably had a fight with his attacker and was dragged or knocked down to the sand, as initially stated by the chief of the Institute if Forensic Medicine right after the forensic autopsy was performed, then that would tell you in all probability he was not rendered unconscious by an initial blow to the back of the head. And if he was rendered unconscious with one blow and didn't fight back, then the forensic autopsy report would surely opine as to why he had wounds on his chin and front upper chest area, bruises on his back, wounds on his hands, etc.

Also, the initial reports said the bodies were transported to the Institute of Forensic Science at the Police General Hospital in Bangkok and that is where the initial forensic autopsy was performed, so the official autopsy could not have been performed in Koh Tao.

For all these reasons, while interesting I can't believe that what you translated is the complete official forensic autopsy results. The official autopsy that has not been published surely contains a large amount of crucial information that is not included in the one you translated.

I have described what I translated and you can find it online for yourself and form an opinion as to whether you believe it was a part of the official autopsy report or not. You can also compare it to the Channel 3 interview of the deputy commander of the police's Institute of Forensic Medicine where gives information that is an exact match with what is translated here - nothing more, nothing less. You may also compare with all the reports in the Thai language press that also convey the same information. If the pathologists analysed all the other points you mentioned, they have apparently not shared any of this information with the Thai media, despite the police's apparent lack of inhibitions in publicising intimate details of murder investigations and the individual and often conflicting hunches of many different officers.

I didn't say in the post that the autopsy was performed in Koh Tao. I believe it was performed at the IFM at the Police General Hospital. If you look back at my earlier posts, you will see that a document headed "Autopsy Report" in Thai has also been posted online which is signed by a doctor at the Koh Tao hospital which caused some confusion. However, despite the fact that document was on a form headed "Autopsy Report" it seems that would have been better headed "Crime Scene Report". Nevertheless, it is interesting that what police and the doctor described as their assumption as to what took place in this crime scene report document apparently foreshadowed so closely the confession of the 2B including the suggestion that the victims were surprised by the perpetrators having sex on the beach and were both beaten to death with a blunt instrument. This was apparently supposed without the benefit of any forensic analysis, since the nearest forensic pathologist is at the Surat Thani public hospital which means that the KT doctor has no forensic pathology training.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Dogmatix

[Bleacher Bum East]

Since a number of people have expressed interest in the autopsy report, I have taken the trouble to translate the one page extract from the report that has been posted online. It is unverified and lacks the preamble and signature pages among other things but is consistent with media reports that have appeared and seems likely to be genuine.

" Page 3

4.1.1. Severe injuries to the head and face caused by a hard blunt instrument consistent with the item referred to in the report (hoe found at the crime scene).

4.1.2. The area of the vagina exhibited signs of sexual assault.

4.1.3. Results of toxology.

4.1.3.1. No traces of psychotropics or psychoactive substances in the urine or blood.

4.1.3.2. No toxins from food found in the digestive tract.

4.1.4. Results of biochemical analysis.

4.1.4.1. In the area of the right nipple DNA was found from two individuals, Mr B and Mr C (assigned names).

4.1.4.2. Inside the vagina semen and DNA of Mr B was found.

4.1.4.3. In the vulva semen and DNA of Mr B and Mr C was found.

4.1.4. Cause of death. Severe injuries to the head and face caused by violent blows from a blunt instrument.

4.2. Autopsy report on the body of Mr David William Miller.

4.2.1. Severe injuries to the head and face caused by a hard blunt instrument consistent with the item referred in the report (hoe found at the crime scene).

4.2.2. No signs of sexual assault.

4.2.3. Water found in both sides of the chest cavity. Water induced swelling in both lungs.

4.2.4. Results of toxology.

4.2.4.1. No traces of psychotropics or other psychoactive substances in the urine or blood.

4.2.4.2. No toxins from food found in the digestive tract.

4.2.5. Results of biochemical analysis. No semen found in the anus. "

In the widely vewed interview with Sorayud on Channel 3 that can be found on Youtube, the deputy commander of the Institute of Forensic Science at the Police General Hospital, Police Colonel Dr Bhavat Prateepvisrut presented findings from the autopsy that seem identical to this report.

Bhavat Channel 3.jpg

On 12 October Komchadluek also published an article that reported on the results of the autopsy using the same language as the extract that is translated above.

In addition, Komchadluek also reported that the police had explained the reason why they thought there was no DNA found inside the condom found at the scene with Hanna's blood on the outside. According to Komchadluek, police said that the condom was probably an old one left on the beach and that the blood on the outside of it was dripped from the hoe while the perpetrators were using it to murder her.

I am confused about this theory about the condom as I was under the impression that the condom was found at the spot where David's clothes and a large spatter of David's blood were found, whereas most of Hannah's blood was found by the rock where her body was found but I may be wrong on this point.

Thanks for the time and effort you've put into this. I'm hoping we're not going to have a troll come along to try and discredit it

I think the report you posted could not be the entire official forensic autopsy report for the following reasons:

The official report must surely contain a "touch DNA" analysis of Hannah and David's clothing and bodies, which would surely show that at least they had each other's DNA on their bodies and clothes if they were in fact in close contact, and would also show the DNA of anybody else that had touched their clothing (surely the perpetrator of the rape) and grabbed their bodies.

The official report must surely contain a toxicology analysis of Hannah and David's hair . . . because date rape drugs dissipate very quickly in the blood and urine, and a hair analysis is the only way to confirm or eliminate the presence of date rape drugs--- and a hair analysis can be done for a month or more afterwards and still get accurate results.

The official report must surely contain a detailed forensics analysis of the wounds, including size and angle of attack, etc. as well as an analysis of the material that caused the wounds ( a jagged weapon would leave a certain type of wound; a glass or wood, etc. would leave tiny shards or splinters behind). And since the initial comments by the director of forensics and police after the forensic autopsy was performed stated that they believed a second metalic weapon was used on David, the forensic analysis would opine as to the nature of that weapon.

The official report must surely contain an analysis of any defensive wounds on Hannah and David's body.

• If Hannah had zero defensive wounds including bruises, then that would tell you in all probability she wasn't even restrained before being killed as well as raped.
• If David did have defensive wounds including bruises on his back and wounds on his hands, and therefore probably had a fight with his attacker and was dragged or knocked down to the sand, as initially stated by the chief of the Institute if Forensic Medicine right after the forensic autopsy was performed, then that would tell you in all probability he was not rendered unconscious by an initial blow to the back of the head. And if he was rendered unconscious with one blow and didn't fight back, then the forensic autopsy report would surely opine as to why he had wounds on his chin and front upper chest area, bruises on his back, wounds on his hands, etc.

Also, the initial reports said the bodies were transported to the Institute of Forensic Science at the Police General Hospital in Bangkok and that is where the initial forensic autopsy was performed, so the official autopsy could not have been performed in Koh Tao.

For all these reasons, while interesting I can't believe that what you translated is the complete official forensic autopsy results. The official autopsy that has not been published surely contains a large amount of crucial information that is not included in the one you translated.

I have described what I translated and you can find it online for yourself and form an opinion as to whether you believe it was a part of the official autopsy report or not. You can also compare it to the Channel 3 interview of the deputy commander of the police's Institute of Forensic Medicine where gives information that is an exact match with what is translated here - nothing more, nothing less. You may also compare with all the reports in the Thai language press that also convey the same information. If the pathologists analysed all the other points you mentioned, they have apparently not shared any of this information with the Thai media, despite the police's apparent lack of inhibitions in publicising intimate details of murder investigations and the individual and often conflicting hunches of many different officers.

I didn't say in the post that the autopsy was performed in Koh Tao. I believe it was performed at the IFM at the Police General Hospital. If you look back at my earlier posts, you will see that a document headed "Autopsy Report" in Thai has also been posted online which is signed by a doctor at the Koh Tao hospital which caused some confusion. However, despite the fact that document was on a form headed "Autopsy Report" it seems that would have been better headed "Crime Scene Report". Nevertheless, it is interesting that what police and the doctor described as their assumption as to what took place in this crime scene report document apparently foreshadowed so closely the confession of the 2B including the suggestion that the victims were surprised by the perpetrators having sex on the beach and were both beaten to death with a blunt instrument. This was apparently supposed without the benefit of any forensic analysis, since the nearest forensic pathologist is at the Surat Thani public hospital which means that the KT doctor has no forensic pathology training.

"I have described what I translated and you can find it online for yourself and form an opinion as to whether you believe it was a part of the official autopsy report or not."

I don't think you caught the sarcastic gist of my post . . .

"I didn't say in the post that the autopsy was performed in Koh Tao. I believe it was performed at the IFM at the Police General Hospital. If you look back at my earlier posts, you will see that a document headed "Autopsy Report" in Thai has also been posted online which is signed by a doctor at the Koh Tao hospital which caused some confusion."

My mistake . . . I thought that first "Autopsy Report" by the doctor at the Koh Tao hospital was what you had translated here.

[thailandchilli]

In light of the appalling mess of the so called investigation by the RTP its human nature to speculate. Its human nature to question whats really going on, its human nature to look for alternative theories based on the incredible cock up the RTP have made of this on every level.

We are not robots conditioned to obey the RTP line. We have education and intelligence that teaches us to ask questions and be critical. The RTP have now realized that Thai people because of social media are now also doing this.

Some of the theories posted on here are way off the mark, but some seem more than plausible and in the absence of a trusted RTP investigation then those who question and demand the truth will continue.

The RTP club labels this as 'conspiracy theroy' and attacks posts with this as its only defense. Very easy and very lazy to do so. As a result they themselves illicit these so called attacks on them.

They would gain much more respect if they actually debated the issues rather than take the RTP line in this, ie we have suspects and once charged they will be taken to court, full stop, anyone who disagrees is a conspiracy theorist!

There is nothing lazy about calling a conspiracy theory out for what it is.

I am unaware of any person on TVF saying that there are no issues with the RTP investigation.

What IS clear is that many people are claiming to "know exactly what happened" or "everyone knows exactly who did it "...

Those claims are patently untrue.

What we do know is that the RTP has conducted an investigation. The 2 Burmese men accused of being the killers have a legal team to defend them.

The 2 Burmese men confessed more than one time. One confession was to a member of the NHRC.

What is needed now is a trial with a vigorous defense, not more conspiracy theories.

you prove my point, nuff said

[mojorison]

In light of the appalling mess of the so called investigation by the RTP its human nature to speculate. Its human nature to question whats really going on, its human nature to look for alternative theories based on the incredible cock up the RTP have made of this on every level.

We are not robots conditioned to obey the RTP line. We have education and intelligence that teaches us to ask questions and be critical. The RTP have now realized that Thai people because of social media are now also doing this.

Some of the theories posted on here are way off the mark, but some seem more than plausible and in the absence of a trusted RTP investigation then those who question and demand the truth will continue.

The RTP club labels this as 'conspiracy theroy' and attacks posts with this as its only defense. Very easy and very lazy to do so. As a result they themselves illicit these so called attacks on them.

They would gain much more respect if they actually debated the issues rather than take the RTP line in this, ie we have suspects and once charged they will be taken to court, full stop, anyone who disagrees is a conspiracy theorist!

There is nothing lazy about calling a conspiracy theory out for what it is.

I am unaware of any person on TVF saying that there are no issues with the RTP investigation.

What IS clear is that many people are claiming to "know exactly what happened" or "everyone knows exactly who did it "...

Those claims are patently untrue.

What we do know is that the RTP has conducted an investigation. The 2 Burmese men accused of being the killers have a legal team to defend them.

The 2 Burmese men confessed more than one time. One confession was to a member of the NHRC.

What is needed now is a trial with a vigorous defense, not more conspiracy theories.

Retracted confessions more than once too. What happened there?

[thailandchilli]

Andy Hall has re tweeted a Flash News link to a statement made by the National Human Rights Commission on the Koh Tao case made today, problem is its in Thai. Anyone can translate? https://twitter.com/Atomicalandy

[BoristheBlade]

Interesting to see the reaction of the French Government towards Thailand....they expect to see elections and soon!!!

Thailand is coming under the international microscope like never before, Koh Tao has and will make that attention even greater.

No one should underestimate the impact the British report into the murders will have.

They will have considerable International support, whatever action they care to take.

Edited November 13, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[jdinasia]

In light of the appalling mess of the so called investigation by the RTP its human nature to speculate. Its human nature to question whats really going on, its human nature to look for alternative theories based on the incredible cock up the RTP have made of this on every level.

We are not robots conditioned to obey the RTP line. We have education and intelligence that teaches us to ask questions and be critical. The RTP have now realized that Thai people because of social media are now also doing this.

Some of the theories posted on here are way off the mark, but some seem more than plausible and in the absence of a trusted RTP investigation then those who question and demand the truth will continue.

The RTP club labels this as 'conspiracy theroy' and attacks posts with this as its only defense. Very easy and very lazy to do so. As a result they themselves illicit these so called attacks on them.

They would gain much more respect if they actually debated the issues rather than take the RTP line in this, ie we have suspects and once charged they will be taken to court, full stop, anyone who disagrees is a conspiracy theorist!

There is nothing lazy about calling a conspiracy theory out for what it is.

I am unaware of any person on TVF saying that there are no issues with the RTP investigation.

What IS clear is that many people are claiming to "know exactly what happened" or "everyone knows exactly who did it "...

Those claims are patently untrue.

What we do know is that the RTP has conducted an investigation. The 2 Burmese men accused of being the killers have a legal team to defend them.

The 2 Burmese men confessed more than one time. One confession was to a member of the NHRC.

What is needed now is a trial with a vigorous defense, not more conspiracy theories.

Retracted confessions more than once too. What happened there?

They lied. Which time and under what circumstances, was the lie will be up to the judges.

They will have a hard time explaining why they lied to the NHRC commissioner.

Edited November 13, 2014 by jdinasia

[AGareth2]

maybe because he is Thai and they don't trust Thais?

[thailandchilli]

A confession extorted as result of alleged torture and with no lawyer present is not considered a lie in any court in any country. Quite the reverse.

I also believe its the RTP that are having a hard time explaining themselves to the NHRC so hard they refuse to turn up

Edited November 13, 2014 by thailandchilli