Massive damages reported from the Thai rice pledging scheme

[webfact]

Massive damages reported from the rice pledging scheme

BANGKOK, 12 Nov 2014, (NNT) - According to a finding by Kasetsart University's Faculty of Economy, farmers participating in the rice pledging scheme did not make substantial increase in their income compared to others who did not take part in the program.

The report shows that participating farmers were able to make less than 1,000 baht higher than those who did not take part in the scheme, while indicating that the rice pledging scheme had cost the previous Government 985 billion baht. The damage incurred by the program is expected to be in the range of 540 - 750 billion baht.

The finding indicated that the pledging scheme was extremely not worth the budget spent, and farmers who participated in the scheme did not use additional income for improving their production capacity as originally intended. The report thus strongly suggested the next administration to take the long term effects into consideration when issuing policies pertaining to agricultural development.

It pointed out that a better approach to farm assistance is to increase farmers' competitiveness by reducing operation costs, and increasing the quality of their crops.


-- NNT 2014-11-12

[ratcatcher]

Kasetsart University's Faculty of Economy.

[cocopops]

Curious.

Does that mean that farmers outside the scheme were somehow able to obtain over 14,000 baht per ton? And is the faculty of economics suggesting that this would have been possible in the absence of the rice scheme? Or perhaps is it that the administrative overhead of participation in the scheme ate up all the extra revenue?

Although it's not clear that it really matters - as the report points out, the foolish farmers wasted whatever extra income they got anyway.

Fortunately it is already the new government's policy to "increase farmers' competitiveness by reducing operation costs, and increasing the quality of their crops". So this report confirms we're on the right track.

Edited November 12, 2014 by cocopops

[JOC]

Curious.

Does that mean that farmers outside the scheme were somehow able to obtain over 14,000 baht per ton? And is the faculty of economics suggesting that this would have been possible in the absence of the rice scheme? Or perhaps is it that the administrative overhead of participation in the scheme ate up all the extra revenue?

Although it's not clear that it really matters - as the report points out, the foolish farmers wasted whatever extra income they got anyway.

Fortunately it is already the new government's policy to "increase farmers' competitiveness by reducing operation costs, and increasing the quality of their crops". So this report confirms we're on the right track.

"So this report confirms we're on the right track"

WE?? Congratulations on your Thai citizenship!!

[bangrak]

A bit of maths, then, please. When this report is correct (no, not speaking to you apologists!), and if I understand the figures well, considering the total in tons of the harvested rice pledged in Dr Thaksin's scam, are ...(?), I don't know, so I throw my hat at it, let's go big, say 45 million tons, and the net difference the participating farmers have collected on top of what the non-participating farmers got, is indeed a meager Baht 1,000.- per ton, when I multiply both numbers, ta-da-rah, what's the result, yes, yes, tell me: 45 Billion Baht!

Yes, but we still have a lot of rice in store! OK, let us be VERY optimistic: let us say there would be 18 million tons of good, Thai(!?), rice stored, and the market value would be as high as 12,000.- Baht a ton, what do we get: 216 Billion Baht of rice indeed. Add the 45 Billion to it, together 261 Billion Baht.

Yes, but there were the expenses, for milling, for storing, aso! OK again, right, let us be generous, it"s not our money (anymore), say 2,000 Baht per ton, that's a hefty 90 Billion Baht, bringing the total too: 351 Billion Baht.

Let us even throw another 49 Billion Baht (I'd like to have 1 lousy percent of...), for not-accounted-for losses and extras, commissions-under-the-table, plus some travelling and shopping, to come to an easy to remember amount of: 400 Billion Baht, shall we?

So, that'd be the maximum this 'rice scheme' should have been costing to ALL Thais, I don't say 'only' the Thai taxpayers, no ALL Thai people, do you hear me in the 'red villages' (guess not) because when about none of that money has ever reached your empty purse, it is so much money, you, the assisted ones, have LOST TOO, that was said to be for you but that you will never get, so, what about that or those idol(s) of yours, hmm!

We're not finished yet: what is that makes Dr Thaksin's 'rice scheme' was not really a scheme at all, but truly a huge scam, is that it were no 400 Billion Baht, it was most probably the DOUBLE, 800,000,000,000 Baht, maybe even 1 TRILLION, or more, will we ever know it all!?

And the big question remaining then is: WHERE HAVE THOSE 'MISSING' 400 TO 600 BILLION BAHT GONE TO???

Will anyone here have the nerve to pretend that HUGE amount has not found its way to anyone's pocket (no, for sure not any small farmer's!), and that possibly no-one would be responsible for the huge mess of a scam, and that the 'evaporated' money should not be traced, and recuperated, +++, from the ones who got, more, wealthy from it!?

And IMO, why not start at the top, with... the Shinawatras wihich are the top-players in the scam-scheme: from inception through realisation, and maintaining it alive, over benefitting of it in many ways, till the bitter end of it!

I'm not a fan of 'witch hunts', but here we do have a great sorcerer, a (his) witch, a bunch of black souls and many bad spirits large and small, so (true) Thai people, what will it be? Time for you to go hunting? Or not? Now or never!

P.S.: when you would, but I doubt you will have the gutts for it, don't forget to bring stakes, some wood, straw and matches too! Maybe some abused persons will even bring some gasoline they kept since 2010...

[marcusd]

A bit of maths, then, please. When this report is correct (no, not speaking to you apologists!), and if I understand the figures well, considering the total in tons of the harvested rice pledged in Dr Thaksin's scam, are ...(?), I don't know, so I throw my hat at it, let's go big, say 45 million tons, and the net difference the participating farmers have collected on top of what the non-participating farmers got, is indeed a meager Baht 1,000.- per ton, when I multiply both numbers, ta-da-rah, what's the result, yes, yes, tell me: 45 Billion Baht!

Yes, but we still have a lot of rice in store! OK, let us be VERY optimistic: let us say there would be 18 million tons of good, Thai(!?), rice stored, and the market value would be as high as 12,000.- Baht a ton, what do we get: 216 Billion Baht of rice indeed. Add the 45 Billion to it, together 261 Billion Baht.

Yes, but there were the expenses, for milling, for storing, aso! OK again, right, let us be generous, it"s not our money (anymore), say 2,000 Baht per ton, that's a hefty 90 Billion Baht, bringing the total too: 351 Billion Baht.

Let us even throw another 49 Billion Baht (I'd like to have 1 lousy percent of...), for not-accounted-for losses and extras, commissions-under-the-table, plus some travelling and shopping, to come to an easy to remember amount of: 400 Billion Baht, shall we?

So, that'd be the maximum this 'rice scheme' should have been costing to ALL Thais, I don't say 'only' the Thai taxpayers, no ALL Thai people, do you hear me in the 'red villages' (guess not) because when about none of that money has ever reached your empty purse, it is so much money, you, the assisted ones, have LOST TOO, that was said to be for you but that you will never get, so, what about that or those idol(s) of yours, hmm!

We're not finished yet: what is that makes Dr Thaksin's 'rice scheme' was not really a scheme at all, but truly a huge scam, is that it were no 400 Billion Baht, it was most probably the DOUBLE, 800,000,000,000 Baht, maybe even 1 TRILLION, or more, will we ever know it all!?

And the big question remaining then is: WHERE HAVE THOSE 'MISSING' 400 TO 600 BILLION BAHT GONE TO???

Will anyone here have the nerve to pretend that HUGE amount has not found its way to anyone's pocket (no, for sure not any small farmer's!), and that possibly no-one would be responsible for the huge mess of a scam, and that the 'evaporated' money should not be traced, and recuperated, +++, from the ones who got, more, wealthy from it!?

And IMO, why not start at the top, with... the Shinawatras wihich are the top-players in the scam-scheme: from inception through realisation, and maintaining it alive, over benefitting of it in many ways, till the bitter end of it!

I'm not a fan of 'witch hunts', but here we do have a great sorcerer, a (his) witch, a bunch of black souls and many bad spirits large and small, so (true) Thai people, what will it be? Time for you to go hunting? Or not? Now or never!

P.S.: when you would, but I doubt you will have the gutts for it, don't forget to bring stakes, some wood, straw and matches too! Maybe some abused persons will even bring some gasoline they kept since 2010...

I really enjoyed this. But I feel Thaksin and his ilk and even the Faculty Of economics all went to the Wall Street Club of selling Junk Bonds to 3rd world countries

[DLock]

Curious.

Does that mean that farmers outside the scheme were somehow able to obtain over 14,000 baht per ton? And is the faculty of economics suggesting that this would have been possible in the absence of the rice scheme? Or perhaps is it that the administrative overhead of participation in the scheme ate up all the extra revenue?

Although it's not clear that it really matters - as the report points out, the foolish farmers wasted whatever extra income they got anyway.

Fortunately it is already the new government's policy to "increase farmers' competitiveness by reducing operation costs, and increasing the quality of their crops". So this report confirms we're on the right track.

You are assuming that the Millers paid the Rice Farmers 14,000 baht per ton.

They didn't.

In the rice farmers haste to get 2 or 3 crops per year, the rice was broken, damp or otherwise inferior, so the Miller paid them a lot less.

However, the Government still paid the Miller top dollar for the rice.

....and hence the discrepancy, the corruption and where all the money went...as well as to new storage facilities that sprung up all over Thailand.

Who do you think the Millers and warehouses were connected to?

Edited November 12, 2014 by DLock

[worgeordie]

Several reports all saying that Thailand has made massive losses through this rice

scheme,but so far no one has been held to account,surely it cannot be for lack of

evidence,its quiet hard to hide multipliable warehouses full of rotten,sub standard

rice,and who was in charge.

regards worgeordie

[Robby nz]

This would only be a brief report on what would no doubt be a comprehensive study.

For instance there is no mention of the increased rentals that have been reported as charged by landlords nor the increases in the costs of chemical sprays and fertilisers charged by suppliers. (so they could all get their cut)

These extra costs would have impacted more on those who did not participate in the scheme for they got no extra income yet would still have had to pay the increases.

Don't see how a previous poster managed to work out that farmers wasted the money they got, perhaps a brilliant economist which I am not.

This report certainly adds to the list of studies which show there has been massive loss associated with the scheme and that there must be accountability for that loss. If there is not it will be a clear signal to politicians of the future that they can get away with anything, that the country does not need.

[bangkokfrog]

Curious.

Does that mean that farmers outside the scheme were somehow able to obtain over 14,000 baht per ton? And is the faculty of economics suggesting that this would have been possible in the absence of the rice scheme? Or perhaps is it that the administrative overhead of participation in the scheme ate up all the extra revenue?

Although it's not clear that it really matters - as the report points out, the foolish farmers wasted whatever extra income they got anyway.

Fortunately it is already the new government's policy to "increase farmers' competitiveness by reducing operation costs, and increasing the quality of their crops". So this report confirms we're on the right track.

"So this report confirms we're on the right track"

WE?? Congratulations on your Thai citizenship!!

What a thoughtless and gratuitous comment. I don't know about cocopops, but I have lived and worked in this country for 13 years and have a family here. I consider myself more a part of Thai society than my own country and would also use the pronoun "we" in the context that he did. Is this wrong for a farang, or do you have the twisted view that no one from another country can integrate with the general population here. Note that I am not talking about being accepted as an equal by the rich and powerful, but by the wonderful working class Thais I deal with every day !!!

[ramrod711]

I wonder if Yingluck will add Kasetsart University's Faculty of Economy to the list of witnesses she wants interviewed?

[dru2]

Curious.

Does that mean that farmers outside the scheme were somehow able to obtain over 14,000 baht per ton? And is the faculty of economics suggesting that this would have been possible in the absence of the rice scheme? Or perhaps is it that the administrative overhead of participation in the scheme ate up all the extra revenue?

Although it's not clear that it really matters - as the report points out, the foolish farmers wasted whatever extra income they got anyway.

Fortunately it is already the new government's policy to "increase farmers' competitiveness by reducing operation costs, and increasing the quality of their crops". So this report confirms we're on the right track.

"So this report confirms we're on the right track"

WE?? Congratulations on your Thai citizenship!!

What a thoughtless and gratuitous comment. I don't know about cocopops, but I have lived and worked in this country for 13 years and have a family here. I consider myself more a part of Thai society than my own country and would also use the pronoun "we" in the context that he did. Is this wrong for a farang, or do you have the twisted view that no one from another country can integrate with the general population here. Note that I am not talking about being accepted as an equal by the rich and powerful, but by the wonderful working class Thais I deal with every day !!!

It's the bitter and twisted JOC. He doesn't belong here, so pay him no mind. I agree with your sentiments one hundred percent, and I have been here 25 years.

[h90]

Curious.

Does that mean that farmers outside the scheme were somehow able to obtain over 14,000 baht per ton? And is the faculty of economics suggesting that this would have been possible in the absence of the rice scheme? Or perhaps is it that the administrative overhead of participation in the scheme ate up all the extra revenue?

Although it's not clear that it really matters - as the report points out, the foolish farmers wasted whatever extra income they got anyway.

Fortunately it is already the new government's policy to "increase farmers' competitiveness by reducing operation costs, and increasing the quality of their crops". So this report confirms we're on the right track.

The farmer didn't receive the full money.

poor quality rice was purchased as high quality

some rice was purchased several times

some imported rice from neighbor countries was purchased

good quality rice was sold (stohlen) illegally from the warehouse

some rice never existed

some rice got bad because of wet storage or insects.

I think the administrative overhead is one of the smaller problems.

[j15mth]

This Rice scam has cost Thailand and its people 1 Trillion Baht allegedly ?

This money has been paid out.

The Farmers are saying they did nor receive this.

Yingluck and her lawyers are struggling to not be indicted for this graft.

So where and to whom has this huge amount of money gone ????

Can some one please clarify this as I am confused .

[djjamie]

Curious.

Does that mean that farmers outside the scheme were somehow able to obtain over 14,000 baht per ton? And is the faculty of economics suggesting that this would have been possible in the absence of the rice scheme? Or perhaps is it that the administrative overhead of participation in the scheme ate up all the extra revenue?

Although it's not clear that it really matters - as the report points out, the foolish farmers wasted whatever extra income they got anyway.

Fortunately it is already the new government's policy to "increase farmers' competitiveness by reducing operation costs, and increasing the quality of their crops". So this report confirms we're on the right track.

"So this report confirms we're on the right track"

WE?? Congratulations on your Thai citizenship!!

Ahh, the bitter and twisted with only negative comments. When you cannot say anything negative about something you make something up as in your comment here.

Time to get out of the shadows mate and grasp reality.

It is looking bright when you take off the blood red glasses.

Edited November 12, 2014 by djjamie

[CMHomeboy78]

Put the Shinawatra Clan on trial and clean out these Augean Stables once and for all.

[JOC]

A bit of maths, then, please. When this report is correct (no, not speaking to you apologists!), and if I understand the figures well, considering the total in tons of the harvested rice pledged in Dr Thaksin's scam, are ...(?), I don't know, so I throw my hat at it, let's go big, say 45 million tons, and the net difference the participating farmers have collected on top of what the non-participating farmers got, is indeed a meager Baht 1,000.- per ton, when I multiply both numbers, ta-da-rah, what's the result, yes, yes, tell me: 45 Billion Baht!

Yes, but we still have a lot of rice in store! OK, let us be VERY optimistic: let us say there would be 18 million tons of good, Thai(!?), rice stored, and the market value would be as high as 12,000.- Baht a ton, what do we get: 216 Billion Baht of rice indeed. Add the 45 Billion to it, together 261 Billion Baht.

Yes, but there were the expenses, for milling, for storing, aso! OK again, right, let us be generous, it"s not our money (anymore), say 2,000 Baht per ton, that's a hefty 90 Billion Baht, bringing the total too: 351 Billion Baht.

Let us even throw another 49 Billion Baht (I'd like to have 1 lousy percent of...), for not-accounted-for losses and extras, commissions-under-the-table, plus some travelling and shopping, to come to an easy to remember amount of: 400 Billion Baht, shall we?

So, that'd be the maximum this 'rice scheme' should have been costing to ALL Thais, I don't say 'only' the Thai taxpayers, no ALL Thai people, do you hear me in the 'red villages' (guess not) because when about none of that money has ever reached your empty purse, it is so much money, you, the assisted ones, have LOST TOO, that was said to be for you but that you will never get, so, what about that or those idol(s) of yours, hmm!

We're not finished yet: what is that makes Dr Thaksin's 'rice scheme' was not really a scheme at all, but truly a huge scam, is that it were no 400 Billion Baht, it was most probably the DOUBLE, 800,000,000,000 Baht, maybe even 1 TRILLION, or more, will we ever know it all!?

And the big question remaining then is: WHERE HAVE THOSE 'MISSING' 400 TO 600 BILLION BAHT GONE TO???

Will anyone here have the nerve to pretend that HUGE amount has not found its way to anyone's pocket (no, for sure not any small farmer's!), and that possibly no-one would be responsible for the huge mess of a scam, and that the 'evaporated' money should not be traced, and recuperated, +++, from the ones who got, more, wealthy from it!?

And IMO, why not start at the top, with... the Shinawatras wihich are the top-players in the scam-scheme: from inception through realisation, and maintaining it alive, over benefitting of it in many ways, till the bitter end of it!

I'm not a fan of 'witch hunts', but here we do have a great sorcerer, a (his) witch, a bunch of black souls and many bad spirits large and small, so (true) Thai people, what will it be? Time for you to go hunting? Or not? Now or never!

P.S.: when you would, but I doubt you will have the gutts for it, don't forget to bring stakes, some wood, straw and matches too! Maybe some abused persons will even bring some gasoline they kept since 2010...

An enjoyable read!

But you conveniently "forgot" to mention, that during those years Thailand actually exported rice worth 316 billion baht, add to that domestic consumption during 3 years. Since you like round numbers, let us put it at 84 billion baht. And suddenly the loss gets 400 billion smaller!!

Not defending the corruptridden ricepledging, but let us deal in facts!!

Source for riceexports:http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/List_%20of_statistic.htm

[Thai at Heart]

A bit of maths, then, please. When this report is correct (no, not speaking to you apologists!), and if I understand the figures well, considering the total in tons of the harvested rice pledged in Dr Thaksin's scam, are ...(?), I don't know, so I throw my hat at it, let's go big, say 45 million tons, and the net difference the participating farmers have collected on top of what the non-participating farmers got, is indeed a meager Baht 1,000.- per ton, when I multiply both numbers, ta-da-rah, what's the result, yes, yes, tell me: 45 Billion Baht!

Yes, but we still have a lot of rice in store! OK, let us be VERY optimistic: let us say there would be 18 million tons of good, Thai(!?), rice stored, and the market value would be as high as 12,000.- Baht a ton, what do we get: 216 Billion Baht of rice indeed. Add the 45 Billion to it, together 261 Billion Baht.

Yes, but there were the expenses, for milling, for storing, aso! OK again, right, let us be generous, it"s not our money (anymore), say 2,000 Baht per ton, that's a hefty 90 Billion Baht, bringing the total too: 351 Billion Baht.

Let us even throw another 49 Billion Baht (I'd like to have 1 lousy percent of...), for not-accounted-for losses and extras, commissions-under-the-table, plus some travelling and shopping, to come to an easy to remember amount of: 400 Billion Baht, shall we?

So, that'd be the maximum this 'rice scheme' should have been costing to ALL Thais, I don't say 'only' the Thai taxpayers, no ALL Thai people, do you hear me in the 'red villages' (guess not) because when about none of that money has ever reached your empty purse, it is so much money, you, the assisted ones, have LOST TOO, that was said to be for you but that you will never get, so, what about that or those idol(s) of yours, hmm!

We're not finished yet: what is that makes Dr Thaksin's 'rice scheme' was not really a scheme at all, but truly a huge scam, is that it were no 400 Billion Baht, it was most probably the DOUBLE, 800,000,000,000 Baht, maybe even 1 TRILLION, or more, will we ever know it all!?

And the big question remaining then is: WHERE HAVE THOSE 'MISSING' 400 TO 600 BILLION BAHT GONE TO???

Will anyone here have the nerve to pretend that HUGE amount has not found its way to anyone's pocket (no, for sure not any small farmer's!), and that possibly no-one would be responsible for the huge mess of a scam, and that the 'evaporated' money should not be traced, and recuperated, +++, from the ones who got, more, wealthy from it!?

And IMO, why not start at the top, with... the Shinawatras wihich are the top-players in the scam-scheme: from inception through realisation, and maintaining it alive, over benefitting of it in many ways, till the bitter end of it!

I'm not a fan of 'witch hunts', but here we do have a great sorcerer, a (his) witch, a bunch of black souls and many bad spirits large and small, so (true) Thai people, what will it be? Time for you to go hunting? Or not? Now or never!

P.S.: when you would, but I doubt you will have the gutts for it, don't forget to bring stakes, some wood, straw and matches too! Maybe some abused persons will even bring some gasoline they kept since 2010...

You forgot to account for the fact that 1 tonne in equates to 0.6kg out.

The processing loss accounts for maybe 30% more than you have allowed

[mikemac]

Curious.

Does that mean that farmers outside the scheme were somehow able to obtain over 14,000 baht per ton? And is the faculty of economics suggesting that this would have been possible in the absence of the rice scheme? Or perhaps is it that the administrative overhead of participation in the scheme ate up all the extra revenue?

Although it's not clear that it really matters - as the report points out, the foolish farmers wasted whatever extra income they got anyway.

Fortunately it is already the new government's policy to "increase farmers' competitiveness by reducing operation costs, and increasing the quality of their crops". So this report confirms we're on the right track.

"So this report confirms we're on the right track"

WE?? Congratulations on your Thai citizenship!!

I believe cocopops used the word "we" as in "we, the people who are genuinely interested in the well being of Thailand."

As opposed to those who simply use the problems encountered today as an excuse to bash the country and troll websites.

[slapout]

The rouge monk who was reported as to having at least10 bank accounts, each of which saw several million moved thru it each day. It would be interesting to see the names of people who were involved in both the rice and the monk scam. There was a huge amount of loss with reliable estimates of 30 to 40 billion us dollars in the rice scam.This amount sent out via banking system, truck, air, or whatever should be tracable if the legal systems in Thailand worked together with the true intent of jailing and seizing assits of those involved. Of course if you give imunity to the monks and the crooked politicans, millers, storage owners, etc , you certainly decrease your chances of any substational recovery.

This info was published several days prior to legal action being taken by the authorties (RTP) etc, the monk abscounded and is reported to now be in Cambodia, the accounts were drawn down to virtually nothing Another monk/abbot was recently demoted for using donated money (millions of baht) to play the stock exchange for personal gain, add the published/admitted fact that the vast majority of temples do not send in a yearly accounting as they are required and are not punished. This might not be connected to money laundering, but the amounts reported handled can be a great temptation and abuse of the system appears to be known, but not followed up to stop future abuse.

[Thai at Heart]

The rouge monk who was reported as to having at least10 bank accounts, each of which saw several million moved thru it each day. It would be interesting to see the names of people who were involved in both the rice and the monk scam. There was a huge amount of loss with reliable estimates of 30 to 40 billion us dollars in the rice scam.This amount sent out via banking system, truck, air, or whatever should be tracable if the legal systems in Thailand worked together with the true intent of jailing and seizing assits of those involved. Of course if you give imunity to the monks and the crooked politicans, millers, storage owners, etc , you certainly decrease your chances of any substational recovery.

This info was published several days prior to legal action being taken by the authorties (RTP) etc, the monk abscounded and is reported to now be in Cambodia, the accounts were drawn down to virtually nothing Another monk/abbot was recently demoted for using donated money (millions of baht) to play the stock exchange for personal gain, add the published/admitted fact that the vast majority of temples do not send in a yearly accounting as they are required and are not punished. This might not be connected to money laundering, but the amounts reported handled can be a great temptation and abuse of the system appears to be known, but not followed up to stop future abuse.

The only reason to create such an enormous free charity system like this with no accounting is money laundering.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Curious.

Does that mean that farmers outside the scheme were somehow able to obtain over 14,000 baht per ton? And is the faculty of economics suggesting that this would have been possible in the absence of the rice scheme? Or perhaps is it that the administrative overhead of participation in the scheme ate up all the extra revenue?

Although it's not clear that it really matters - as the report points out, the foolish farmers wasted whatever extra income they got anyway.

Fortunately it is already the new government's policy to "increase farmers' competitiveness by reducing operation costs, and increasing the quality of their crops". So this report confirms we're on the right track.

"So this report confirms we're on the right track"

WE?? Congratulations on your Thai citizenship!!

This your or fabie's idea - don't like the post so attach the poster.

[JOC]

Curious.

Does that mean that farmers outside the scheme were somehow able to obtain over 14,000 baht per ton? And is the faculty of economics suggesting that this would have been possible in the absence of the rice scheme? Or perhaps is it that the administrative overhead of participation in the scheme ate up all the extra revenue?

Although it's not clear that it really matters - as the report points out, the foolish farmers wasted whatever extra income they got anyway.

Fortunately it is already the new government's policy to "increase farmers' competitiveness by reducing operation costs, and increasing the quality of their crops". So this report confirms we're on the right track.

"So this report confirms we're on the right track"

WE?? Congratulations on your Thai citizenship!!

What a thoughtless and gratuitous comment. I don't know about cocopops, but I have lived and worked in this country for 13 years and have a family here. I consider myself more a part of Thai society than my own country and would also use the pronoun "we" in the context that he did. Is this wrong for a farang, or do you have the twisted view that no one from another country can integrate with the general population here. Note that I am not talking about being accepted as an equal by the rich and powerful, but by the wonderful working class Thais I deal with every day !!!

What a bunch of hypocrates you are (this post and a few more with the same content).

90 % of the posts on Thaivisa are Thaibashing, where it is very much "us' and "them", but suddenly when it fits someones political ideologi, it becomes "we". Hence my reply to cocopops post.

I note you use the word farang about yourself. Interesting!!

For your information, I have been here longer than you and also have a Thai family. And yes I have integrated to a certain extent, but to me it will always be "us" and "them" Maybe my loss??

[NeverSure]

This isn't about rice sales. It's about losses.

The money was borrowed from the Ag Bank and hasn't been paid back. It isn't carried on Thailand's books as a debt because they are offsetting that with enough "good rice" to cover it. We all know that's a scam.

What we don't know is if the government also put some of its own money into the scheme, making the loss even bigger.

We do know that if the "revolving fund loan" from the Ag Bank were put on Thailand's books as a debt, and on the Ag Bank's books as a loss, the bank would be bankrupt by international standards and the Thai government would be in default. There has been no admission on the books that there isn't sufficient rice in storage to pay off that loan.

Based on all articles on here in the past year the loss is somewhere between 700 billion and 1 trillion baht. There is no transparency and every time there is an announcement it changes. We do believe from the Ag Bank statements that the loans/losses are somewhere North of 700 billion baht.

Edited November 12, 2014 by NeverSure

[bangrak]

Put the Shinawatra Clan on trial and clean out these Augean Stables once and for all.

Scoop: Augeas just filed a libel complaint in Bkk, arguing his stables were by far not that dirty, and calling him Shinawatra was an insult to his name... LOL

[seajae]

Curious.

Does that mean that farmers outside the scheme were somehow able to obtain over 14,000 baht per ton? And is the faculty of economics suggesting that this would have been possible in the absence of the rice scheme? Or perhaps is it that the administrative overhead of participation in the scheme ate up all the extra revenue?

Although it's not clear that it really matters - as the report points out, the foolish farmers wasted whatever extra income they got anyway.

Fortunately it is already the new government's policy to "increase farmers' competitiveness by reducing operation costs, and increasing the quality of their crops". So this report confirms we're on the right track.

"So this report confirms we're on the right track"

WE?? Congratulations on your Thai citizenship!!

What a thoughtless and gratuitous comment. I don't know about cocopops, but I have lived and worked in this country for 13 years and have a family here. I consider myself more a part of Thai society than my own country and would also use the pronoun "we" in the context that he did. Is this wrong for a farang, or do you have the twisted view that no one from another country can integrate with the general population here. Note that I am not talking about being accepted as an equal by the rich and powerful, but by the wonderful working class Thais I deal with every day !!!

What a bunch of hypocrates you are (this post and a few more with the same content).

90 % of the posts on Thaivisa are Thaibashing, where it is very much "us' and "them", but suddenly when it fits someones political ideologi, it becomes "we". Hence my reply to cocopops post.

I note you use the word farang about yourself. Interesting!!

For your information, I have been here longer than you and also have a Thai family. And yes I have integrated to a certain extent, but to me it will always be "us" and "them" Maybe my loss??

so you have been here more than 25 years but only a member of TV for not quite 3 months, I take it that you have been in here under other aliases for those 25 years then. You are averaging close to 400 posts a month and all of them are either pro ptp/red shirts or they are attacking all the other posters, going by these figures that makes you a pretty big troll and with what you are now saying it also brings into question the truthfulness of your statements. Yes there is thai bashing in here but a lot of it is deserved or do you think that killing, raping people etc is ok if your thai. I also call myself a farang because thats what I am here, doesnt bother me in the least, mate, I think you are just full of it and spend all your time in here because you dont have any friends to associate with because they know exactly what you are like, all you do is take your own frustrations out on others and hide behind the anonimity of the forum, pretty childish really.

[bangrak]

Curious.

Does that mean that farmers outside the scheme were somehow able to obtain over 14,000 baht per ton? And is the faculty of economics suggesting that this would have been possible in the absence of the rice scheme? Or perhaps is it that the administrative overhead of participation in the scheme ate up all the extra revenue?

Although it's not clear that it really matters - as the report points out, the foolish farmers wasted whatever extra income they got anyway.

Fortunately it is already the new government's policy to "increase farmers' competitiveness by reducing operation costs, and increasing the quality of their crops". So this report confirms we're on the right track.

"So this report confirms we're on the right track"

WE?? Congratulations on your Thai citizenship!!

What a thoughtless and gratuitous comment. I don't know about cocopops, but I have lived and worked in this country for 13 years and have a family here. I consider myself more a part of Thai society than my own country and would also use the pronoun "we" in the context that he did. Is this wrong for a farang, or do you have the twisted view that no one from another country can integrate with the general population here. Note that I am not talking about being accepted as an equal by the rich and powerful, but by the wonderful working class Thais I deal with every day !!!

What a bunch of hypocrates you are (this post and a few more with the same content).

90 % of the posts on Thaivisa are Thaibashing, where it is very much "us' and "them", but suddenly when it fits someones political ideologi, it becomes "we". Hence my reply to cocopops post.

I note you use the word farang about yourself. Interesting!!

For your information, I have been here longer than you and also have a Thai family. And yes I have integrated to a certain extent, but to me it will always be "us" and "them" Maybe my loss??

JOC dear, don't lose the thread, please! It's not about your loss, my loss, our loss, their loss, it's about THE LOSS, from Dr Thaksin's rice scam, don't forget, 12 or 11 naughts with a figure in front, hard to forget though...

And did I misread you (Monday?) when you wrote about being critical of ALL the wrong, without preference or discrimination? Well, being in Thailand, and preoccupied with what happens here, how could I, we, ...you, not be critical of at the at least 90% of wrong things done by... Thais, as it's happening in Thailand, and except the imported Pharang criminals and crooks active in Thailand, there's not much to be criticised in domestic affairs about any others than... Thais, am I right?

So, excuse me, but the 'Thaibashing' label can, IMO, only come from Thais unhappy to see that foreigners are aware of wht's wrong here, and dare to speak up about it, or, when coming from a foreigner, still IMO, then from some, maybe idealistic (the exceptions, you), but for sure ill-informed, des-informed, manipulated, (ab)used (mind you, possibly not byThais only, when I hear and read the trash coming f.i. from the PR agency calling itself 'HRW' that sounds like paid for by the Shins)!

I feel no pleasure from so-called 'bashing', any, Thai, but, as long as I can feel love for this coutry, and I am allowed to, I will go on criticising the wrongs made, by Thais and possibly foreigners, in Thailand! And I would hope you to do the same! Let Thais eventually be nationalists, protectionists, racists and xenophobes, but not us become their pawns, and go silent, we would let down the majority of (true) Thais, good people, who, alas, mostly don't have a voice, or can't take the risk to complain!

[bangrak]

"So this report confirms we're on the right track"

WE?? Congratulations on your Thai citizenship!!

What a thoughtless and gratuitous comment. I don't know about cocopops, but I have lived and worked in this country for 13 years and have a family here. I consider myself more a part of Thai society than my own country and would also use the pronoun "we" in the context that he did. Is this wrong for a farang, or do you have the twisted view that no one from another country can integrate with the general population here. Note that I am not talking about being accepted as an equal by the rich and powerful, but by the wonderful working class Thais I deal with every day !!!

What a bunch of hypocrates you are (this post and a few more with the same content).

90 % of the posts on Thaivisa are Thaibashing, where it is very much "us' and "them", but suddenly when it fits someones political ideologi, it becomes "we". Hence my reply to cocopops post.

I note you use the word farang about yourself. Interesting!!

For your information, I have been here longer than you and also have a Thai family. And yes I have integrated to a certain extent, but to me it will always be "us" and "them" Maybe my loss??

so you have been here more than 25 years but only a member of TV for not quite 3 months, I take it that you have been in here under other aliases for those 25 years then. You are averaging close to 400 posts a month and all of them are either pro ptp/red shirts or they are attacking all the other posters, going by these figures that makes you a pretty big troll and with what you are now saying it also brings into question the truthfulness of your statements. Yes there is thai bashing in here but a lot of it is deserved or do you think that killing, raping people etc is ok if your thai. I also call myself a farang because thats what I am here, doesnt bother me in the least, mate, I think you are just full of it and spend all your time in here because you dont have any friends to associate with because they know exactly what you are like, all you do is take your own frustrations out on others and hide behind the anonimity of the forum, pretty childish really.

seajae, I read your part from the bottom up, so I thought you answered to Robespierre, but then I saw been here 25 years and I knew I was wrong... LOL

[baboon]

Curious.

Does that mean that farmers outside the scheme were somehow able to obtain over 14,000 baht per ton? And is the faculty of economics suggesting that this would have been possible in the absence of the rice scheme? Or perhaps is it that the administrative overhead of participation in the scheme ate up all the extra revenue?

Although it's not clear that it really matters - as the report points out, the foolish farmers wasted whatever extra income they got anyway.

Fortunately it is already the new government's policy to "increase farmers' competitiveness by reducing operation costs, and increasing the quality of their crops". So this report confirms we're on the right track.

"So this report confirms we're on the right track"

WE?? Congratulations on your Thai citizenship!!

Ahh, the bitter and twisted with only negative comments. When you cannot say anything negative about something you make something up as in your comment here.

Time to get out of the shadows mate and grasp reality.

It is looking bright when you take off the blood red glasses.

But my dear fellow, you are substantially less eloquent when you have nothing to copy and paste: how very odd! Never mind, my dear friend - let peace and reconciliation be with you too.

[northernjohn]

This would only be a brief report on what would no doubt be a comprehensive study.

For instance there is no mention of the increased rentals that have been reported as charged by landlords nor the increases in the costs of chemical sprays and fertilisers charged by suppliers. (so they could all get their cut)

These extra costs would have impacted more on those who did not participate in the scheme for they got no extra income yet would still have had to pay the increases.

Don't see how a previous poster managed to work out that farmers wasted the money they got, perhaps a brilliant economist which I am not.

This report certainly adds to the list of studies which show there has been massive loss associated with the scheme and that there must be accountability for that loss. If there is not it will be a clear signal to politicians of the future that they can get away with anything, that the country does not need.

I agree with you 100% on that. Unfortunately Yingluck being in charge of the whole fiasco at least the face in Thailand will cause quite an uproar if she is sentenced to any jail time which she certainly deserves. There fore to my way of thinking impeaching her will not cause near as much sentiment for her. Not that I am sure impeachment is actually possible to do retroactively but it would serve as a warning for future politicians and keep the public happier.