Unmarried not (yet) legal father, how to get 1 year non-O extension ?

[loloal]

Hello,

(not sure if I should talk about "one year non O visa" or 1 year "extension of non O visa")

my friend's history :

_ French 27 y/o now

_ has been 2 month on tourist single entry visa

_ then switched to non-B and got work permit (had a company)

_ stayed 2 years on non-B, got GF pregnant

_ came back to France with thai GF and baby, stayed in France 2 years

_ last week got a 3 month single entry non O family visa (french consulate) and went back to Samui with GF and child

_ can't read english well and never looked at TVF : he just realised today when going to Samui's Immigration / french consulate / etc that he won't be able to get a 1 year extension because not married

Looking 10 minutes at TVF I can see this is not breaking news, but what I've read from you guys (and that was never mentioned to him by IO / consulate / samui old timers) is that another solution is getting offically known as legal father.

He's quite skeptical about some forums knowing actually more than samui's IO but I'm 100% sure he's wrong with this thought

So according to those threads :

_ " Visa for unmarried father"

_ " How To Gain Parental Rights As A Father "

and knowing that is child is 3,5 y/o now, and can't talk thai very well (started thai school today, talked some thai with mother in France but not so much),

Does he have any chance to get recognized as legal father by going to some amphurs in samui (child being younger than7)? or is there others amphurs elsewhere known for better results ?

Is petitioning to court a process with strong success rates and wich can be done within a short time, say 2 months. And can this be done in Samui ?

(GF will of course agree)

Would like to know your thoughts about is situation and what is the best he can do now according to you.

Marriage is not really is favorite option for some reasons.

Thanks !

[paz]

You have most of the facts right. The legalization is done at family court, not amphoe, if nobody opposes it it's a 100% success. I've seen reports mentioning 3-4 months. There is also a post-judgement "waiting" period before the papers are released to be used at amphoe or immigration.

[loloal]

Ok thanks !

Is trying the Amphoe option still worth a shot, since it's free (I guess) ?

Then if succes going to Immigration with the papers and try to get the extension.

And in the meantime getting ready for Family Court wich is according to you the unique option.

I've read some IO might be OK with just Amphoe papers, but that's a lot of 'ifs' anyway ...

Last question to be sure : is there any possible reason that IO will refuse extension even with Court agreeing he is Legal Father ? if so, would flying to border be a good worakround, and wich one ?

Cheers !

[paz]

To be honest I don't see a reason with an Ampohe officer should risk big trouble doing something that the law clearly doesn't allow.

It would be different if he had French legal papers recognizing him as the father.

Until then the only thing he can do is to a single-entry get a non-imm "O" at any consulate, then a single 60-days extension. Neither of these require the legalization.

Birth certificate and copies of mother and child ID and house registration are enough.

[loloal]

To be honest I don't see a reason with an Ampohe officer should risk big trouble doing something that the law clearly doesn't allow.

It would be different if he had French legal papers recognizing him as the father.

Until then the only thing he can do is to a single-entry get a non-imm "O" at any consulate, then a single 60-days extension. Neither of these require the legalization.

Birth certificate and copies of mother and child ID and house registration are enough.

I guess he does have such french papers - french family book, etc

He is already in Samui now with non-0 (since last week) wich he got in France

I think he will go to Amphoe tomorrow and ask them

[paz]

To use the French paper he will need an official translation and legalization that is done at the MfA in Bangkok, plus I think a confirmation letter from his embassy. And the name, date of birth of the child and parents must perfectly match. The smallest discrepancy is reason enough for them to be worthless to the Thai authorities.

[qwertyuiop]

I have just been through the process. We have children under the age of 6 born in Thailand and with my name on the birth certificate and they have my family name.

This was my experience

We first tried the local amphur - not possible. children too young must be old enough to understand and answer questions.

We went though the local courts and it has taken from start to finish 3-4 months.

Correct paperwork has to be filed with the family court.

The court has to be the one covering the amphur in which the children reside ( by reside I mean the tabian baan) So if for instance the children are on a tabien baan upcountry and they and the parents live and work in Bangkok, papers must be filed upcountry.

Once the courts have the paperwork then the family will be requested to visit 'social services' for a series of interviews to determine if it is in the best interests oof the child to have the applicant as legal father. This took about 4 hours. The mother is also interviewed separately to ensure she is in agreement with the application and is not under any pressure.

Social services then send their report to the court. At some point the family will be requested to attend court and under oath answer certain questions as to the family relationships, length of time together, how does the father provide for the children etc. (similar to the social services interview)

A few questions are then asked of the mother again, to ensure that she is in agreement. An attempt was also made to question the children but they were a little young.

The judge then gave her decision. Both mother and father had to sign various pieces of paper and we were informed that the judgement would be available in about 1 months time.

Upon receipt it is possible then to take this paper to any amphur and have them register the fact of legal parentage.

I then assume a copy of this entry can then be used to support an extension of stay application

[paz]

Excellent info qwertyuiop, bookmarked for reference. Did you used a lawyer? Was it expensive ?

BTW, it seems to me a very civil and rightful process.

[offset]

I have just been through the process. We have children under the age of 6 born in Thailand and with my name on the birth certificate and they have my family name.

This was my experience

We first tried the local amphur - not possible. children too young must be old enough to understand and answer questions.

We went though the local courts and it has taken from start to finish 3-4 months.

Correct paperwork has to be filed with the family court.

The court has to be the one covering the amphur in which the children reside ( by reside I mean the tabian baan) So if for instance the children are on a tabien baan upcountry and they and the parents live and work in Bangkok, papers must be filed upcountry.

Once the courts have the paperwork then the family will be requested to visit 'social services' for a series of interviews to determine if it is in the best interests oof the child to have the applicant as legal father. This took about 4 hours. The mother is also interviewed separately to ensure she is in agreement with the application and is not under any pressure.

Social services then send their report to the court. At some point the family will be requested to attend court and under oath answer certain questions as to the family relationships, length of time together, how does the father provide for the children etc. (similar to the social services interview)

A few questions are then asked of the mother again, to ensure that she is in agreement. An attempt was also made to question the children but they were a little young.

The judge then gave her decision. Both mother and father had to sign various pieces of paper and we were informed that the judgement would be available in about 1 months time.

Upon receipt it is possible then to take this paper to any amphur and have them register the fact of legal parentage.

I then assume a copy of this entry can then be used to support an extension of stay application

I went trough the same procedure but with a few variations one was that the child was never present at any of the proceedings

I had to have an I person that could translate for me at the first meeting at the children's centre this was ok to be a friend but at the court hearing I was advised to use a person from one of the English teaching school

The Judge gave his verdict there and then and the mother and I signed papers and so did the interpreter I was then advised the mother had 1 month to change her mind which the Judge told her in very strong words not to do for the child's good

Just over a month I got the paper through

[offset]

Excellent info qwertyuiop, bookmarked for reference. Did you used a lawyer? Was it expensive ?

BTW, it seems to me a very civil and rightful process.

Just for your information I used a local Thai lawyer which cost me 10000 baht and worth every baht the interpreter cost 2000 baht

Yes the whole procedure was very civil and at all times and it was only the my child's welfare they were concerned about

[qwertyuiop]

Excellent info qwertyuiop, bookmarked for reference. Did you used a lawyer? Was it expensive ?

BTW, it seems to me a very civil and rightful process.

Yes i did use a lawyer. I was given no choice. The cost was 12,000 baht payable in 2 installments.

I found the whole process to be handled professionally and efficiently. All involved were friendly and helpful.

It is my understanding it can be handled without recourse to lawyers but as I said I was given no choice.

Three times I stressed with the court employees that I wished to make the application myself but they would not budge form their stance that a lawyer was necessary. As at no time did I see or was made aware of the official forms I really felt it was a battle not worth winning.

Initially I did go to the family court here we reside as opposed to where the tabian baan is located and there I was asked if I wished to hire the services of a lawyer or was i going to complete the application myself. Once they saw our tabian baan we were informed we needed to apply elsewhere.

[qwertyuiop]

I had to have an I person that could translate for me at the first meeting at the children's centre this was ok to be a friend but at the court hearing I was advised to use a person from one of the English teaching school

In my case my wife was sworn in at the same time as myself and translated the judge's questions and my replies.

[kerr17]

HI,

I'm in a similar situation and had my court hearing last week that I couldn't attend (lawyer said that he could have done it just with the mother and without me anyway).

Unfortunately my lawyer managed to made a total mess and apparently i was even asked to provide a work permit on that date (which i don't have) and that I had to attend the hearing.

My next court hearing is now on December 1st but I currently have no lawyer (residing in Bangkok) since he was clearly unable to do the job.

Can anyone help me out and pass me a reliable lawyer contact?

Thanks in advance

[paz]

HI,

I'm in a similar situation and had my court hearing last week that I couldn't attend (lawyer said that he could have done it just with the mother and without me anyway).

Unfortunately my lawyer managed to made a total mess and apparently i was even asked to provide a work permit on that date (which i don't have) and that I had to attend the hearing.

My next court hearing is now on December 1st but I currently have no lawyer (residing in Bangkok) since he was clearly unable to do the job.

Can anyone help me out and pass me a reliable lawyer contact?

If you don't work in Thailand the judge may have be interested in knowing what are your means of living, so something like ban book else would have to be produced.

You may get more responses posting in the family sections of the forum..

[qwertyuiop]

HI,

I'm in a similar situation and had my court hearing last week that I couldn't attend (lawyer said that he could have done it just with the mother and without me anyway).

Unfortunately my lawyer managed to made a total mess and apparently i was even asked to provide a work permit on that date (which i don't have) and that I had to attend the hearing.

My next court hearing is now on December 1st but I currently have no lawyer (residing in Bangkok) since he was clearly unable to do the job.

Can anyone help me out and pass me a reliable lawyer contact?

If you don't work in Thailand the judge may have be interested in knowing what are your means of living, so something like ban book else would have to be produced.

You may get more responses posting in the family sections of the forum..

Yes,

The total focus of the court is on the best interests of the child. Many of the questions asked are to do with the family unit and its stability,

how long the mother and father have been together, does the child live with his/her parents, how the father contributes to the life of the child etc.

I would be of the opinion that if the father does not reside it Thailand with the child it will not be seen as a positive in the application

[offset]

I had to have an I person that could translate for me at the first meeting at the children's centre this was ok to be a friend but at the court hearing I was advised to use a person from one of the English teaching school

In my case my wife was sworn in at the same time as myself and translated the judge's questions and my replies.

to be honest the person from the school got somebody to sit in but he did not understand and all he did was sign a paper at the end of proceedings I was not asked any questions by the judge

[kerr17]

HI,

I'm in a similar situation and had my court hearing last week that I couldn't attend (lawyer said that he could have done it just with the mother and without me anyway).

Unfortunately my lawyer managed to made a total mess and apparently i was even asked to provide a work permit on that date (which i don't have) and that I had to attend the hearing.

My next court hearing is now on December 1st but I currently have no lawyer (residing in Bangkok) since he was clearly unable to do the job.

Can anyone help me out and pass me a reliable lawyer contact?

If you don't work in Thailand the judge may have be interested in knowing what are your means of living, so something like ban book else would have to be produced.

You may get more responses posting in the family sections of the forum..

Yes,

The total focus of the court is on the best interests of the child. Many of the questions asked are to do with the family unit and its stability,

how long the mother and father have been together, does the child live with his/her parents, how the father contributes to the life of the child etc.

I would be of the opinion that if the father does not reside it Thailand with the child it will not be seen as a positive in the application

We've been living together for the last 7-8 years, I own a property where I live, I support my kids in every possible way (paying international school fees) but due to my work abroad, I'm often in and out the country.

Unfortunately I can't find a reliable lawyer that can help me out even though my case doesn't seems to be too difficult. any advice?

[qwertyuiop]

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Unfortunately I can't find a reliable lawyer that can help me out even though my case doesn't seems to be too difficult. any advice?

Try asking at the Family Court where you will file the application for a recommendation

[kerr17]

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Unfortunately I can't find a reliable lawyer that can help me out even though my case doesn't seems to be too difficult. any advice?

Try asking at the Family Court where you will file the application for a recommendation

Thanks but I'm currently abroad and will only get back in a week.

I would prefer some lawyer that already deal with similar cases given my bad experiences so far.

[qwertyuiop]

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Unfortunately I can't find a reliable lawyer that can help me out even though my case doesn't seems to be too difficult. any advice?

Try asking at the Family Court where you will file the application for a recommendation

Thanks but I'm currently abroad and will only get back in a week.

I would prefer some lawyer that already deal with similar cases given my bad experiences so far.

Sorry I could not be of more help, though I still think my suggestion would work.

Although you do not need to be present at the initial application signed copies of passport, work permit tabian baan, etc will be required.

I assume you could not do this before returning to Thailand. In the meantime the mother/your partner could enquire at the family court where you must make the application for a lawyer recommendation. Asking at the family court would I further assume ensure that the lawyer would have experience of similar cases to your own and would be familiar with the workings of that particular family court. This would enable you to apply almost immediately upon your return to Thailand

Once the application to be recognised as the legal father has been accepted ,my understanding is that you will be given 2 dates, one for the interview with 'social services' and one for the court date with the judge. You must be present at both. Once the application has been approved by the judge at the second of those meetings you will be able to pick up the paperwork about a month later. This you do not have to do in person

[RayHaas]

Excellent info qwertyuiop, bookmarked for reference. Did you used a lawyer? Was it expensive ?

BTW, it seems to me a very civil and rightful process.

You can use a lawyer from the Family Court to do this process. Costs 2500.- baht. I was given back 1300.- at the end as the process was simple. Never had money back from a lawyer before!