Virtual-jail: Please provide some help

[boom1987]

My topic is quite long so I've decided to put the question first:

1. If I was accused of a crime for theft and non-appearance to meetings, and an arrest warrant was sent to Suvanabhumi Airport under an old name in 2009 then in 2013 I change my first name, surname by deed poll subsequently receiving a new NZ passport/passport number; would these old and new passports be linked together within any Thai system?

Here is my topic:

In August 2011 I was accused of stealing furniture from a Thai lady. She went to the police and made a report. Police called me and I demanded to meet them on the same day, police officer said no-no-no-time; tomorrow better.

Tomorrow came and I showed the police officer the receipts for the items which had my name on them, as well as my home address, signature and mobile number on the same receipts, also told him to call the company who sold them to me because they remember me buying the stuff.

Thai lady's police report doesn't match what's found on the CCTV, receipts and, now this might not come as a surprise, but lacks 'common-sense' when you put everything together.

One load of bullocks she mentioned in her statement was that I used my Honda Civic to steal the furniture. Truth is I hired a furniture removal company to do it. Unfortunately, there is just no way you can fit a King size mattress, frame, and 7-piece dining table set in a Honda Civic and it doesn't matter how smart those Japanese are (love Japan btw). Why bother lying about this on her part you might ask? Well it's simple, now she isn't a smart lady, but the police are for you see admitting that someone else was there and that they were Thai, means they witnessed what happened, and they could speak and give an account of what happened. Want it nice and easy, well witnesses are messy for corrupt police.

After going back and forth (Embassy - Police Station - Lawyers Office - back to Police Station - Prosecutors Office) I realized that something just wasn't right at all. It wasn't until my classmate, who introduced me to her King's Consul Prosecutor friend, that I found out what this was all really about. The furniture was the Thai lady's way of 'bringing-the-heat' and I'm to 'give-in' and pay 500,000 THB now and to stop this from going to court. I refused with my 'bring-it-on' attitude.

From her reaction over the phone as the KC friend questioned her, she seemed surprised that I even had receipts (I bought the items in 2009, so they were roughly 2 years old by then).

The police also did not care that I had receipts or anything proving my innocence, for their share of the treasure pot will be on the way as long as they had put enough pressure on me. I realized this soon enough, but too late to leave the country.

In what country is a purchase receipt no longer proof of ownership? Apparently Thailand.

Since I realized that the police were more concerned about money and less about evidence, I refused to recognize their authority and stopped attending any more of their procedural 'meetings' because it was obviously all for show (you know, to look like you're going through the process correctly).

Subsequently, an arrest warrant was made on the same day if I remember. The Thai lady went to the NZ Embassy, but they contacted me and said they refused to help her with any information. They knew however I was still in Thailand.

Thai lady then went to Suvanabhumi Airport and gave them a letter from the police stating what I am accused of 'Not attending agreed meetings regarding theft of furniture' (or something to that affect) and that I am to be detained at the airport if I try to leave. I know this much because I had other lawyers check, and the embassy can be helpful..sometimes..

No conviction has been made (but that doesn't matter anyway) because I refused to continue playing their game. Stuff it (that's what I thought).

Anyway, I am stuck here. Stuck in a virtual-prison. No walls, just borders. Longing for the fresh-air of my home New Zealand and it doesn't matter how farm-like it might smell. However, the time which has passed since 2011 isn't like I've had it rough. Sure, found romance, lived the dream, I like Thailand, and since 2013 I can now speak Thai quite well, also studied here, worked here, graduated here, and I've made it my other home despite the past and all the tears and stress.

But I do yearn to see my family, and I should of thought of that back then when I was 23 instead of being so sure of myself and my 'I've got proof, I'll stay and fight for my innocence' attitude. It was a set up from the start and I should have just got my ass back to NZ.

But reality sets in...and well guys, I need your help. Please tell me what ways are open to me so I can get back to NZ? Is there any help you guys are willing to flick my way? Am I being too hopeful of going back to NZ, and then also coming back to Thailand? I'm open to all suggestions, but please, no mucking around please. I miss my family so much, and I'd like to see them all again.

Important Info:

- Checked at Suvanabhumi Airport by a lawyer and my old name and old passport number is on their flag list for theft of furniture

- As a result, I have since changed my name and surname and also have a new passport with a new passport number

- I am willing to re-open this entire case and do it the slow but judicial way, but it would need to be at a different precinct and preferably with the least amount of corruption

- I am open to 'other-ways' too (read between the lines please)

- In Thailand there is only an arrest warrant for not turning up to the meetings regarding theft of furniture

- I have only just started to investigate ways to get back, so I'm still waiting for any response from the NZ Embassy in BKK and the NZ Dept. of Internal Affairs on these issues (if there will be any response at all).

• Please feel free to message me or comment this topic.

[RandomSand]

If you previously checked that your name was on a list at the airport; why can't you run a check on your new name ?

[DaffyDuck]

Cross a different border, say, into Cambodia. Head to the nearest international airport, like PP, and get on the next flight to your home.

[ukrules]

After a name change I would be surprised if anything showed up at all

To leave the country they're going to want to see an entrance stamp and if there isn't one available I suspect they will look you up on the computer and find that you never entered.

[krisb]

Who is this lady?

Unless I missed it in the op?

[ukrules]

I'd like to add that a lot has changed in Thailand recently and it's quite possible that the original lady won't pursue this any further, especially if you inform the anti corruption guys and the NCPO directly.

Maybe this is an option for you to at least consider. I know nothing about it but there do appear to be some people in Thailand actively looking for corruption cases to prosecute.

Maybe you could have her arrested / drop any charges. Might be time to consult the lawyers again.

Are you currently on an overstay ?

[ExPratt]

The authorities managed to find exactly the lowest level individual in the country who could remotely be considered to have violated the copyright laws, a trash collector, and prosecuted him, of all people. Unbelievable.

I'd go out of a land Border and then make your way to where you want to fly to from there

From using PB land border many times I have realized that they put the divs there where they cant cause too much trouble , turning a couple of tourists back a month would be their limit

[wprime]

Why don't you just get a good lawyer and have her charged with criminal defamation? It seems you have a mountain of evidence to prove her claims are false.

Also contact the NACC with your evidence, they are very friendly towards foreigners who are victims of police corruption.

[Soutpeel]

After a name change I would be surprised if anything showed up at all

To leave the country they're going to want to see an entrance stamp and if there isn't one available I suspect they will look you up on the computer and find that you never entered.

-Checked at Suvanabhumi Airport by a lawyer and my old name and old passport number is on their flag list for theft of furniture

- As a result, I have since changed my name and surname and also have a new passport with a new passport number

so If I have this correct ?....the OP changed their name by deed poll and got a new passport and never changed permission to stay stamps and did all this while in Thailand ?

If the OP had been out the country and enter on a new PP and it wasnt picked up chances are it will not be picked up going out, but have never travelled on this passport out of Thailand, never had permission to stay stamps transfered over the new PP, pretty sure the OP is going to be under a lot of scrutinity of how they go into the country in the first place and once they start digging pretty sure they will be able to connect the dots.

I was told one time by someone, and I dont know how true it is, that with machine readible passports that there is "coding" on it which tells an immigration officer that a person has a 2nd valid passport or the this person has been issued another passport at some time in another name, eg Singpore ask you this very question on the landing card, "have you ever entered under a different name"

if this is true, then this will be picked up in the new PP as well

[fatfather]

So you stuck here since then? You changed your name and passport, why? Does your new passport have the entry stamp? Are you here on a long overstay? Things don't add up really. What do I not understand?

Fatfather

[ukrules]

So you stuck here since then? You changed your name and passport, why? Does your new passport have the entry stamp? Are you here on a long overstay? Things don't add up really. What do I not understand?

Fatfather

More information is required.

[manly100]

You won't have any problems comming back, you can put this case behind you. No need to follow up the case. There is no linking.

[ukrules]

You won't have any problems comming back, you can put this case behind you. No need to follow up the case. There is no linking.

He is inside Thailand now and wants to get out...

[mesquite]

Regarding the two passports being tied together in the system, somewhere I read that they can be due to having the same birth date.

The number of people born on the exact same date as the OP, and having a NZ passport, and male, and having been to Thailand is probably pretty small. The old, flagged, passport would be brought up when they scanned the new passport at Passport Control.

[HeijoshinCool]

"One load of bullocks she mentioned in her statement was that I used my Honda Civic to steal the furniture. Truth is I hired a furniture removal company to do it …"

A-ha!

Just kidding. I was told by the U.S. Consulate that they weren't linked, and since there is no warrant for your arrest, I don't know how they could (legally) stop you from making your flight. But, TIT.

But if you are still worried, fly out of Kuala Lumpur. Flights from there are typically 10-15,000 baht cheaper than from BKK.

[NanLaew]

If I was accused of a crime for theft and non-appearance to meetings, and an arrest warrant was sent to Suvanabhumi Airport under an old name in 2009 then in 2013 I change my first name, surname by deed poll subsequently receiving a new NZ passport/passport number; would these old and new passports be linked together within any Thai system?

Then...

In August 2011 I was accused of stealing furniture from a Thai lady. She went to the police and made a report. ...

The OP needs to clarify the dates, maybe just a typo? We assume that either the OP somehow departed Thailand, went home and changed the name by deed poll, acquired a new passport and re-entered Thailand or, managed this rather radical change of identity whilst still in Thailand?

[ATF]

What did you do to piss off this bitch so much in the first place?

[skippybangkok]

@ Mae Sai they used to let u cross without a visa into Burma for 500 baht to go see the market, great money spinner for Burmese and Thai immigration . Just give them your old passport which they keep in exchange for a slip of paper and be in your way to Yangon

[boom1987]

If you previously checked that your name was on a list at the airport; why can't you run a check on your new name ?

Thank you RandomSand for your PM and also for your question. The reason why I can't exactly run my new name through the system again is because it costed me roughly 10,000 THB the first time to do it. However, your question did raise another idea which is I changed my name in April 2013, and the name check was done this year around June, so I suspect that if the names are linked probably something should have been flagged or at least in that report which I got from the lawyers.

Thank you again.

[simon43]

If I understand the OP correctly, he is currently in Thailand, with a new passport issued in a new name. Therefore, there is no immigration stamp in his passport and he will be unable to leave Thailand by ... er ... normal routes.

IMHO, the OP 2 mistakes:

- He ignored summons from the police

- He changed his name/got a new passport, which is tantamount to admitting his guilt to the charge.

However, those deeds are done. My best suggestion (without going into obvious detail), is to take a walking trip close to the Cambodian border and 'lose your way', but watch out for minefields.....

[boom1987]

Cross a different border, say, into Cambodia. Head to the nearest international airport, like PP, and get on the next flight to your home.

Thank you for your response DaffyDuck, I was just wondering if I would meet any problems along the way to PP Airport. Is Cambodia strict with entry and exit stamps? I suspect they may look down on me if I go to PP Airport without proper stamps, and my new NZ passport also has no Thai entry visas (it's in the old one with the 'flagged-name').

Thank you again.

[HaruHaru]

edited

[boom1987]

After a name change I would be surprised if anything showed up at all

To leave the country they're going to want to see an entrance stamp and if there isn't one available I suspect they will look you up on the computer and find that you never entered.

Hi UKRULES, you're correct. With my new passport there is no Thai Entry Stamp whatsoever (I applied for the new passport whilst in Thailand). However I neglected to say in my original post that I got my mum to apply for a Thai Education Visa at the Thai Consulate in Auckland. Im not sure if that I have passed any name-check-balances-stuff or they just take the visa fee and put the sticker in the passport. But because I got the visa under a new name and new passport, it might suggest that they have checked the relevant systems and nothing came up attached to my old name.

Thanks again.

[boom1987]

If I understand the OP correctly, he is currently in Thailand, with a new passport issued in a new name. Therefore, there is no immigration stamp in his passport and he will be unable to leave Thailand by ... er ... normal routes.

IMHO, the OP 2 mistakes:

- He ignored summons from the police

- He changed his name/got a new passport, which is tantamount to admitting his guilt to the charge.

However, those deeds are done. My best suggestion (without going into obvious detail), is to take a walking trip close to the Cambodian border and 'lose your way', but watch out for minefields.....

Thank you for your response Simon43, yes you're correct that there is no immigrations tamp in my passport so I am unable to leave via normal routes. However it is also true that I ignored the summons from the police and changed my name/passport but not because it is tantamount/virtually the same as admitting guilt to the charge of committing theft; but that I refused to recognize the judicial process was correctly following procedures set by their own standards.

I could lose my way at the Cambodian border, however the problem would still be the same, which is, no Entry stamp into Cambodia too.

Thank you again.

[DaffyDuck]

Cross a different border, say, into Cambodia. Head to the nearest international airport, like PP, and get on the next flight to your home.

Thank you for your response DaffyDuck, I was just wondering if I would meet any problems along the way to PP Airport. Is Cambodia strict with entry and exit stamps? I suspect they may look down on me if I go to PP Airport without proper stamps, and my new NZ passport also has no Thai entry visas (it's in the old one with the 'flagged-name').

Thank you again.

I'd assume that you would present your new/name passport at the Cambodia border entrance, getting an entry stamp for Cambodia in that passport.

You would then use that same passport to leave Cambodia from the PP airport. It would, at that point, have all the required stamps, showing you entered Cambodia from Thailand, and now you'd be leaving it.

I doubt the Cambodian passport authorities care about Thailand stamps.

[boom1987]

Who is this lady?

Unless I missed it in the op?

Hi Krisb thank you for your question, unfortunately I am unable to provide her name because it would be a breach of T&C of ThaiVisa (they're afraid of a defamation suit), however suffice to say, she is not a nice lady.

I knew her because my family helped her daughter study in NZ as an international student, and she wanted us to put our passport numbers as guarantees in her application for an education visa and to be her homestay. After time, my family did that for her and that's where we pretty much got to know each other (not enough clearly).

I also knew a few things about her that weren't quite right, for example, she is a teacher at a government university and her salary is roughly 11,000 thb per month yet she lives very 'hi-so' as they say. Her hiso income stems from helping Thai businesses avoid paying the required taxes, and as an accountant, she uses her skills to avoid taxes on their behalf. In return, her clients pay her a fee for helping them reduce this cost (I remember that one client paid her 750,000 thb just for one job)

Unfortunately, I have no proof of this but thank you for your question.

[boom1987]

I'd like to add that a lot has changed in Thailand recently and it's quite possible that the original lady won't pursue this any further, especially if you inform the anti corruption guys and the NCPO directly.

Maybe this is an option for you to at least consider. I know nothing about it but there do appear to be some people in Thailand actively looking for corruption cases to prosecute.

Maybe you could have her arrested / drop any charges. Might be time to consult the lawyers again.

Are you currently on an overstay ?

Hi UKRules, thanks again for your response. I will be taking your suggestion very seriously and I have heard around town that this seems to be the way things are going.

If you have any information on how I might be able to contact the NCPO or anti-corruption guys would be helpful too. Yes I am currently on overstay, 3 years. Terrible, but can't be avoided at the moment. There is one guy who has said he will help me out (he says its all legit, but his story keeps changing so it seems more like a scam).

[boom1987]

After a name change I would be surprised if anything showed up at all

To leave the country they're going to want to see an entrance stamp and if there isn't one available I suspect they will look you up on the computer and find that you never entered.

-Checked at Suvanabhumi Airport by a lawyer and my old name and old passport number is on their flag list for theft of furniture

- As a result, I have since changed my name and surname and also have a new passport with a new passport number

so If I have this correct ?....the OP changed their name by deed poll and got a new passport and never changed permission to stay stamps and did all this while in Thailand ?

If the OP had been out the country and enter on a new PP and it wasnt picked up chances are it will not be picked up going out, but have never travelled on this passport out of Thailand, never had permission to stay stamps transfered over the new PP, pretty sure the OP is going to be under a lot of scrutinity of how they go into the country in the first place and once they start digging pretty sure they will be able to connect the dots.

I was told one time by someone, and I dont know how true it is, that with machine readible passports that there is "coding" on it which tells an immigration officer that a person has a 2nd valid passport or the this person has been issued another passport at some time in another name, eg Singpore ask you this very question on the landing card, "have you ever entered under a different name"

if this is true, then this will be picked up in the new PP as well

Hi UkRules, yes you're correct on all your questions. I never wanted my old and new passports linked together, that was my intention hence I never got any stamps transferred. I have, however, read somewhere quite reliable that the only information on the machine readable passports is that which is already printed inside your passport bio-page, such as name, surname, birthdate, passport origin and nationality etc...there is also a colour picture of you on the chip and in Thailand, all pictures that you take after the passport is scanned at the immigration counter (before getting stamped) are bought up on the screen too.

So really to have a valid Thai Entry Stamp it requires a scan into the system, then your picture taken with those alien-like webcams, and then the physical stamp on the page.

[boom1987]

So you stuck here since then? You changed your name and passport, why? Does your new passport have the entry stamp? Are you here on a long overstay? Things don't add up really. What do I not understand?

Fatfather

Hi fatfather, I am not sure what you do not understand since you seem to understand my situation quite clearly. Yes I have been stuck here since then. Yes I have changed my name and passport. There is no entry stamp. Yes I do have a long overstay which is roughly 3 years. Why I did all this in my original post.

Thanks again.

[boom1987]

If I was accused of a crime for theft and non-appearance to meetings, and an arrest warrant was sent to Suvanabhumi Airport under an old name in 2009 then in 2013 I change my first name, surname by deed poll subsequently receiving a new NZ passport/passport number; would these old and new passports be linked together within any Thai system?

Then...

In August 2011 I was accused of stealing furniture from a Thai lady. She went to the police and made a report. ...

The OP needs to clarify the dates, maybe just a typo? We assume that either the OP somehow departed Thailand, went home and changed the name by deed poll, acquired a new passport and re-entered Thailand or, managed this rather radical change of identity whilst still in Thailand?

Hi NanLaew, you've got me! My dates were wrong, very sorry about that and I'm sure most people were equally confused. Let me state it again, I bought the furniture in 2009, arrest warrant was sent to Suvanabhumi Airport in 2011 and in 2013 I changed my name and passport.

In regards to doing the name change, I did it while I was still 'trapped' in Thailand. It's quite legal and easy to do by post, but I only required the embassy to 'JP' and stamp it as a Statutory Declaration that I am changing my name freely. Submitted it, approved, then applied for a new passport. From this point onwards, all I need is an Entry Stamp to show I came in legally or some other way out of here.

Thanks again for your question NanLaew..