Muslims found Americas before Columbus says Turkey's Erdogan

[Ulysses G.]

I think the point is that America is supposed to give the land back to the Muslims. It is a common theme with that lot.

[khunbillmex]

Not sure if there is any credible evidence backing up the statement that muslim sailors met the latin Americans in 1178,

but they would not have been Latinized yet or even Americanized?

[NeverSure]

-snip-

Every re-discovery of the Americas (or anywhere else for that matter) has resulted in the prior civilisation being virtually wiped out physically and culturally, so it's quite tricky to know what went before sometimes. Where did the the folks who built the Pyramids in the Americas learn how to do that?

Some tribes of native Americans have stories of "The Ones Who Came Before." That includes at least the Navajo and other surrounding tribes.

There are quite elaborate cliff dwellings in NE Arizona that are unlike anything the white man found native Americans living in, nor would they have matched the nomadic lifestyles of the tribes found by the white man.

Mesa Verde National Park which is nearby but in SE Colorado is a prime example. Google Images

To live in permanent dwellings these people had to farm which it appears they did. The Navajo and others across the country were nomadic hunter-gathers with no apparent lifestyle similarity to the vanished cliff dwellers.

I believe that the native Americans crossed the frozen Bering Straits from Siberia, not Korea LINK and I think it's very possible that they killed off "The Ones Who Came Before."

Peace.

Edited November 17, 2014 by NeverSure

[kerrysum]

Someone is smoking too much crack! Oh I forgot, it is opium.....

[opalred]

i thought the duck dynasty founded the joint

[jpinx]

-snip-

Every re-discovery of the Americas (or anywhere else for that matter) has resulted in the prior civilisation being virtually wiped out physically and culturally, so it's quite tricky to know what went before sometimes. Where did the the folks who built the Pyramids in the Americas learn how to do that?

Some tribes of native Americans have stories of "The Ones Who Came Before." That includes at least the Navajo and other surrounding tribes.

There are quite elaborate cliff dwellings in NE Arizona that are unlike anything the white man found native Americans living in, nor would they have matched the nomadic lifestyles of the tribes found by the white man.

Mesa Verde National Park which is nearby but in SE Colorado is a prime example. Google Images

To live in permanent dwellings these people had to farm which it appears they did. The Navajo and others across the country were nomadic hunter-gathers with no apparent lifestyle similarity to the vanished cliff dwellers.

I believe that the native Americans crossed the frozen Bering Straits from Siberia, not Korea LINK and I think it's very possible that they killed off "The Ones Who Came Before."

Peace.

Indeed there was someone "before" but maybe a prior migration from Siberia?

There's another school of thought about the pre-historic cultures of western Europe who are only known from linguistic and mythological deductions such as the Formorians in Ireland wiped out by the Celts, and the Canary Islanders wiped out by the Spanish, and the Basque People whose language appears to have come out of nowhere. The theory is that these cultures actually came from the Americas, following the Gulf Stream is an easy matter - even the eels do that It also explains the basis of the theory of Atlantis.

[ubonjoe]

A degrading post in violation of this forum rule. This a warning to all that choose to post in this topic.

"11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation."

[bkkcanuck8]

So who did Columbus meet when he landed? Muslims or Indians?

Indians (currently known as Pakistanis) of course - it was before Pakistan separated and became known as Pakistan....

[muffy]

And the Muslims didn't know what to do with the discovery .

[Petchou]

Americans and British discovered Nana and pattaya Lol

[SolePurpose]

And Muslim also founded ISIS

[lvr181]

"Muslims found Americas before Columbus says Turkey's Erdogan"

How did they know it was lost?

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

It is believed that human life began in Africa and migrated out from there. Considering there was a vast community already living in the Americas for centuries. It kind of goes without saying that it was discovered long before Columbus, the Muslims or the the Chinese are making their claims.There was a land bridge from Asia to what is now Alaska. Doesn't take a lot to figure out you could just walk there.

I saw on discovery channel years ago where they traced the DNA of the North American Indians to a specific tribe in Japan (sorry no link to that it was a TV show)

[Tongdee]

I am real sure the Birds an the Bees & the Flowers And the Trees & the Bears & the Bison... ... ... arrived before the natives that we now commonly call indians discovered what we now call the americas before columbus. There is also decent "EVIDENCE" the Vilkings were here before columbus. Immigrants all as to when. Big silly game of musical chairs... ... ...

[arjunadawn]

I think the point is that America is supposed to give the land back to the Muslims. It is a common theme with that lot.

I'm reading through these posts then "BINGO!" You hit it spot on.

Is it possible a mosque was present when Columbus came? Yea, I think so. If one considers the mind blowing voyages of Zheng He, the eunuch navy commander of the Chinese emperor. Gavin Menzies wrote a remarkable and enjoyable book, 1434, which makes it possible that there was a mosque in the Americas. The fleet sailed thru malacas strts, around India and down African coast- of course there would have been Muslim stewards and hands. Moreover, Menzies makes a brilliant argument that the Bimini road was a repair slip, and that a part of the fleet was marooned in the Caribean. But this does not make a Muslim new world.

The new world was old in the 12th century, as far as europeans are concerned. (DNA tests on select people's up and down the the west coasts of Americas evidence clear Chinese DNA that was further clarified to be from a particular area in China, the shipyards).

The very observation that a man today ("I Want To Be A Caliph Erdogan") and declares that a spaniard did not find the new world, An Italian did not find the new world, but that a religion found the new world- his religion, should make anyone who appreciates the enlightenment cringe.

Edited November 17, 2014 by arjunadawn

[Credo]

I believe there is another religion that believes that the Native Americans are the lost tribe of Israel.

So now we can start the Muslim/Jewish argument here.

[billd766]

So a Turkish politician claims that the Muslims discovered America in 1178? Although I'm English, I'm happy to say: "Hard luck, mate, but the Welsh beat you by 8 years!"

Click HERE and HERE.

Just think, if only the Welsh had run Hollywood, we could have enjoyed such classics as:

9 1/2 Leeks

The Lost Boyos

An American Werewolf in Powys

Huw Dares Gwyneth

Austin Powys

The Bridge on the River Wye

Look Back in Bangor

Evans Can Wait

A Fishguard Called Rhonddha

Sheepless in Seattle

The Sheepshag Redemption

-------------------

BTW, if you have ever wondered why Sir Anthony Hopkins, who is Welsh, has never been accused of sheepshagging, it's all down to the silence of the lambs.

Wait until the "valley commandos" come beating on your door with 4 pints of Brains SA (skull attack) in each hand, wearing their best pit boots and miners helmets.

Just like they used to do at the Saturday night dances at RAF St Athan. They terrified me then.

[Sydebolle]

Well, they perished because there was no social security organization providing for food, shelter, mosque and halal food stamps

[JemJem]

He is a big embarrassment to us progressive Turks. And, I have never hated any Turkish politician this much before.

He has a lot of blood in his hands, both domesticwise and Syriawise/Iraqwise. But will he ever be tried, in Turkish courts or in International Courts ? Sadly, I doubt it very much.

By the way, he is the President of Turkey but he is also the Prime Minister. The current PM, Ahmet Davutoglu, is just a puppet. He cannot undertake or say any major stuff without Erdogan's consent.

These are very sad and worrying times for Turkey. The secularity of the state is at big risk. If AKP wins again in next year's general elections (and I fear they still have around 40-45 percent voter support; and don't forget the huge possibility of election fraud in favor of AKP), there might not be any more secular Turkey within 3 years or so

Edited November 17, 2014 by JemJem

[Friendly Stranger]

Oh aye, next he'll be telling us they landed on the moon first 'n all.

Not the moon silly, It was a comet..

Edited November 17, 2014 by Friendly Stranger

[than]

Mr ERDOGAN forget his history, viking and chineses discover first America.........

[arrowsdawdle]

Yes. I have been to the landing point, near St. Augustine, Florida, and there is now a muslim buffet restaurant commemorating it.

It's called, Allah You Can Eat.

Halal of a sense of humour, mate.

[arrowsdawdle]

Mr ERDOGAN forget his history, viking and chineses discover first America.........

And were all welcomed when they arrived.

[klauskunkel]

Muslims found Americas before Columbus says Turkey's Erdogan

People found Americas before Turkeys says a TV member

A TV member replying to Turkey's PM Erdogan: Although you can admittedly find live or bottled wild turkeys in America even now, the Americas were discovered by some folks walking from Asia to Alaska via the frozen Bering Strait, about 20,000 to 15,000 years ago. And they were not Muslims, because they did not wear a burka or any other Muslim identifier. Also, Muslims were not invented yet, then...at that time. In the meantime, Mr. Erdogan is still looking for the part of his brain that handles logic and rational thought, he hopes that any Muslim can find it before Columbus does...he believes he lost it while looking under a burka, maybe some 20,000 to 15,000 years ago. That's all.

[Kerryd]

Not sure if there is any credible evidence backing up the statement that muslim sailors met the latin Americans in 1178, but there is a case for the Chinese discovering and mapping America 70 years before Columbus showed up^.

A Chinese map has been discovered dating back to 1418 and is attributed to Chinese Admiral Zheng He. Zheng He — a Muslim eunuch — is arguably the most famous explorer in Chinese history. He was deployed by the emperor, he led Chinese fleets on voyages of discovery that helped expand the empire’s knowledge of the world to include previously unknown areas in the Middle East and Africa. His influence over Asian culture was so strong that he is still considered a god in some parts of Indonesia, so the possiblity that a muslim did actually discover America could actually be true.

Gavin Menzies book, 1421: The Year China Discovered the World was worth the read.

Don't know if it stands up to scrutiny though.

good book though, and interesting theory

Read (and enjoyed) both his books - they sounded good but have pretty much been entirely debunked over the last few years. Seems a lot of scholars, historians and academics took issue with a lot of the "proofs" offered in Gavin's books.

http://www.1421exposed.com/ is one of many sites that pretty much shred all of his "evidence". This site: http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/1308 does it in just one page.

As for Columbus allegedly seeing a "mosque" in Cuba - no doubt he was looking at a native (Taino) village who use conical huts that may have looked like Muslim minaret spires from a distance. Seen close up they would in no way be mistaken for a mosque, but seen from a distance, looking up a hill surrounded by trees and foliage, it may well be that the only thing Columbus could equate the structures to were mosques.

(deleted broken picture link)

Upon further study, Columbus was apparently just referring to some local geography when he made the mosque comment. Indeed, in the Christopher Columbus's memoir "Journal of the First Voyage of Columbus", the section is translated as:

"Remarking on the position of the river and port, to which he gave the name of San Salvador, he describes its mountains as lofty and beautiful, like the Pena de las Enamoradas, and one of them has another little hill on its summit, like a graceful mosque." (my emphasis)

That is the one and only reference to a mosque in his journals. Nowhere does he say he saw a mosque of any kind.

And finally, according to one religion in particular, Muslims were indeed the first to the moon, as their prophet (allegedly) split the moon in 2 after the people of Mecca demanded a miracle.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Kerryd

[Seastallion]

I think the point is that America is supposed to give the land back to the Muslims. It is a common theme with that lot.

I'm reading through these posts then "BINGO!" You hit it spot on.

Is it possible a mosque was present when Columbus came? Yea, I think so. If one considers the mind blowing voyages of Zheng He, the eunuch navy commander of the Chinese emperor. Gavin Menzies wrote a remarkable and enjoyable book, 1434, which makes it possible that there was a mosque in the Americas. The fleet sailed thru malacas strts, around India and down African coast- of course there would have been Muslim stewards and hands. Moreover, Menzies makes a brilliant argument that the Bimini road was a repair slip, and that a part of the fleet was marooned in the Caribean. But this does not make a Muslim new world.

The new world was old in the 12th century, as far as europeans are concerned. (DNA tests on select people's up and down the the west coasts of Americas evidence clear Chinese DNA that was further clarified to be from a particular area in China, the shipyards).

The very observation that a man today ("I Want To Be A Caliph Erdogan") and declares that a spaniard did not find the new world, An Italian did not find the new world, but that a religion found the new world- his religion, should make anyone who appreciates the enlightenment cringe.

I thought your opening line was sarcasm in response to sarcasm. But then you spoilt it. UG's comment was simply a snide and cynical jab at Palestine.

Of course Erdogan was not saying that!

I find the notion quite ridiculous, and I would have thought that your personal view of Muslims, though radical, wouldn't stoop to such silly nonsense as believing for a nanosecond that Erdogan ever considered such an outrageous thought.

Or have I fallen for your joke? If I have, well, you got a good one over me, well done.

[jpinx]

Not sure if there is any credible evidence backing up the statement that muslim sailors met the latin Americans in 1178, but there is a case for the Chinese discovering and mapping America 70 years before Columbus showed up^.

A Chinese map has been discovered dating back to 1418 and is attributed to Chinese Admiral Zheng He. Zheng He a Muslim eunuch is arguably the most famous explorer in Chinese history. He was deployed by the emperor, he led Chinese fleets on voyages of discovery that helped expand the empires knowledge of the world to include previously unknown areas in the Middle East and Africa. His influence over Asian culture was so strong that he is still considered a god in some parts of Indonesia, so the possiblity that a muslim did actually discover America could actually be true.

Gavin Menzies book, 1421: The Year China Discovered the World was worth the read.

Don't know if it stands up to scrutiny though.

good book though, and interesting theory

Read (and enjoyed) both his books - they sounded good but have pretty much been entirely debunked over the last few years. Seems a lot of scholars, historians and academics took issue with a lot of the "proofs" offered in Gavin's books.

http://www.1421exposed.com/ is one of many sites that pretty much shred all of his "evidence". This site: http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/1308 does it in just one page.

As for Columbus allegedly seeing a "mosque" in Cuba - no doubt he was looking at a native (Taino) village who use conical huts that may have looked like Muslim minaret spires from a distance. Seen close up they would in no way be mistaken for a mosque, but seen from a distance, looking up a hill surrounded by trees and foliage, it may well be that the only thing Columbus could equate the structures to were mosques.

(deleted broken picture link)

Upon further study, Columbus was apparently just referring to some local geography when he made the mosque comment. Indeed, in the Christopher Columbus's memoir "Journal of the First Voyage of Columbus", the section is translated as:

"[/size]Remarking on the position of the river and port, to which he gave the name of San Salvador, he describes its mountains as lofty and beautiful, like the Pena de las Enamoradas, and one of them has another little hill on its summit, like a graceful mosque." (my emphasis)

That is the one and only reference to a mosque in his journals. Nowhere does he say he saw a mosque of any kind.

And finally, according to one religion in particular, Muslims were indeed the first to the moon, as their prophet (allegedly) split the moon in 2 after the people of Mecca demanded a miracle.

It's easy to debunk speculative historians, but the reality is that the debunkers you reference are as easily debunked themselves Their "analysis" is cursory at best and they obviously have an axe to grind in the world of academic history and any revisionists are reviled. To claim that the use of a ghost writer invalidates the speculation is fatuous in the extreme. I wish I was young enough to revisit the places I know in the Americas where there is abundant evidence of ancient trading with China. Needless to say the debunkers only pontificate from behind their desks - not by actually going anywhere to search with an open mind.

P.S. There's very little "hard evidence" of the existence of Jesus

Edited November 17, 2014 by jpinx

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

So who did Columbus meet when he landed? Muslims or Indians?

Maybe there was a 7/11 when he landed. <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

So who did Columbus meet when he landed? Muslims or Indians?

Pakistans running a 7/11 store?

[Humberstone]

The only recognized pre-Columbian voyage of discovery and settlement in what is North America was by Vikings led by Lief Erickson from established settlements in Greenland 500 years before Columbus. And as an aside, Lief was not a pagan but had converted to Christianity prior to his expedition to what is now called Newfoundland. There are also written records of these voyages is the various Norse Sagas and it was described in other Medieval European texts later as well.

There are claims by just about everyone that they were the first to find the Americas before 1492 from trans Atlantic/Pacific voyages. However, the only one with any credible proof is that of the Vikings.

[ABCer]

 

Muslims before Columbus, Vikings before the Muslims, Phoenicians before the Vikings, Egyptians before the Phoenicians and no doubt some African kid on a log that trumped them all.

 

It is not who discovered Americas, but who 'developed' it.

There is little or no arguments that Latinos, English and French produced the most profound effect.

Without going into the morals.