Taking Thai language classes a total waste of time and money.

[kokesaat]

I would not say that taking Thai classes is a waste of time, but it is quite expensive and a lot of learning you have to do for yourself anyway.

I started to learn Thai 4 month ago. My strategy is:

1. I learn vocabularies with ANKI (available for Windows, Android and IPhone)

Even if you take classes you have to learn vocabularies by yourself.

I don’t learn the tone rules because they are very complicated and even most Thais don’t know them. I try to remember the tones together with the word. In most cases the meaning of the word will be understandable from the context.

1. I learn the Thai letters by the internet and exercise reading every day.

A teacher cannot help you with this. You need to learn and exercise by yourself.

1. I study the grammar from different websites and online books. There is not plenty of grammar in Thai and a lot grammar is without clear rules. You need to get a feeling for the language. This you can only archive by reading, and talking every day. Of cause a teacher can help you with this, but if you are living in Thailand you have everywhere native Thai speakers around you and you can talk with them. Try to find some good educated person that wants talk with you or wants a language exchange. You can ask this person if you have some questions too.

I also copied many sample sentences to ANKI and exercise them.

1. Try to listen Thai radio and TV
2. Read street and company signs

Everybody must find his own way. It is possible to learn Thai without a school if you are living in Thailand. Thai is quite difficult and it will take me probably more 2 years to speak reasonable Thai. It also depends on your age and discipline.

I wouldn't give up on the tones! I tried a variety of approaches......but couldn't break the code. Then, one day, things fell into place and began to make sense. Even with the code, learning the tone rules was difficult......but it made a world of difference in being able to read and pronounce so others could understand. Once you learn the rules and embed them in a few empty brain cells (through practice), there's little need to remember them. Sort of like there's no need to be able to recite the Thai (or English) alphabet to be able to read.

Good luck with your studies.

[krisb]

The difference between you and those stupid farangs is that when they speak others understand, while when you speak, you the only one who understands

Hang on, are you saying if you don't take Thai language class, no one will understand??

Surely you don't mean that cause that would be ridiculous.

Considering your other post, you have your answer

So spicy in Thai is prik.

Duck is bet.

How are they the same word but different tones?

เผ็ด is spicy

เป็ด is duck.

If you can read Thai you will see why they are different tones.

Was in a bar once and some guy couldnt understand why the girl wanted to know where to send the elephant to, the guy was trying to order two beer chang, to him he thought song chang was how to order.

Still don't see how those 2 words are the same word different tone like konying says?

My beer ordering skills however are fluent. I made sure of that

[bill1369]

There are 2 proven methods to speaking Thai like a native: (1) live with a Thai partner or (2) spend a couple months in a Thai jail.........

[NanLaew]

...

My Thai is pretty average but even I can order duck spicy or not.

....

Yeah, but do you know who sells chicken eggs?

[mesquite]

The things that kills older farangs with learning Thai is the pronunciation. I've met very few farangs who can pronounce Thai correctly, i.e. their Thai is not "clear."

You have to hold your mouth and tongue a certain way for some words, and only a one-on-one Thai teacher can show you how to do that and check to see that you are doing it right. The sounds that are required are not part of our normal way of speaking.

It's very hard to judge how good your own Thai is, as your Thai "friends" and acquaintances will tell you you speak good Thai, buttering you up for some money. I know people who have memorized many words and put them together correctly, but their pronunciation is so bad, it's gibberish. They will say to me, "oh, yeah, I don't always get the tones right" as if it's no big deal.

A good one on one teacher with constant practice and repetition is the only way to go, IMHO.

[Bangkokhatter]

Am guessing you can't afford lessons.

[flyingsaucersarereal]

The things that kills older farangs with learning Thai is the pronunciation. I've met very few farangs who can pronounce Thai correctly, i.e. their Thai is not "clear."

You have to hold your mouth and tongue a certain way for some words, and only a one-on-one Thai teacher can show you how to do that and check to see that you are doing it right. The sounds that are required are not part of our normal way of speaking.

It's very hard to judge how good your own Thai is, as your Thai "friends" and acquaintances will tell you you speak good Thai, buttering you up for some money. I know people who have memorized many words and put them together correctly, but their pronunciation is so bad, it's gibberish. They will say to me, "oh, yeah, I don't always get the tones right" as if it's no big deal.

A good one on one teacher with constant practice and repetition is the only way to go, IMHO.

I think finishing with Thai school is a better idea than starting with Thai school. First learn on your own get the vocabulary down and then you can go to school after years of speaking to get everything down perfect if you must.

[flyingsaucersarereal]

Am guessing you can't afford lessons.

You guessed wrong!

[mgjackson69]

Whatever works, for someone who is learning the language.

Someone who is ”in school” for many years is probably here on an ED visa, not necessarily wanting to learn Thai.

[konying]

The difference between you and those stupid farangs is that when they speak others understand, while when you speak, you the only one who understands

Hang on, are you saying if you don't take Thai language class, no one will understand??

Surely you don't mean that cause that would be ridiculous.

Considering your other post, you have your answer

So spicy in Thai is prik.

Duck is bet.

How are they the same word but different tones?

Spicy and duck is pedt but with different tones.

No idea what bet is

Also your "prik" means chilli not spicy

[krisb]

The difference between you and those stupid farangs is that when they speak others understand, while when you speak, you the only one who understands

Hang on, are you saying if you don't take Thai language class, no one will understand??

Surely you don't mean that cause that would be ridiculous.

Considering your other post, you have your answer

So spicy in Thai is prik.

Duck is bet.

How are they the same word but different tones?

Spicy and duck is pedt but with different tones.

No idea what bet is

Also your "prik" means chilli not spicy

Fair enough.

I thought the word spicey was more of a pedt, but duck was more of a bedt. Por and bor no?

I must be wrong.

[krisb]

The difference between you and those stupid farangs is that when they speak others understand, while when you speak, you the only one who understands

Hang on, are you saying if you don't take Thai language class, no one will understand??

Surely you don't mean that cause that would be ridiculous.

Considering your other post, you have your answer

So spicy in Thai is prik.

Duck is bet.

How are they the same word but different tones?

Spicy and duck is pedt but with different tones.

No idea what bet is

Also your "prik" means chilli not spicy

Lol.

Just asked my wife and she said your teacher is wrong.

The tones are the same, the words are different.

I must know more Thai than I think cause I knew you were wrong, but you sounded like you knew what you were talking about.

Anyway, no big deal, we all probably need to learn more.

I'd love the time to attend a school. Sadly right now I can't.

[konying]

Ha ha, now it's pretty clear how good your thai is.

Duck and spicy is the same word in thai , only different tones

and spelled differently

Yes genius, and if you did not go to school and can not read Thai it sounds the same, only the tonal difference as i said previously.

Duck-Pĕd

Hot/Spicy-P̄hĕd

[konying]

Lol.

Just asked my wife and she said your teacher is wrong.

The tones are the same, the words are different.

I must know more Thai than I think cause I knew you were wrong, but you sounded like you knew what you were talking about.

Anyway, no big deal, we all probably need to learn more.

I'd love the time to attend a school. Sadly right now I can't.

Yes i am sure educated teacher is wrong, but a cleaner is correct

The words are spelt different, but sounds are the same, without the knowledge as i said originally, people would not know if you wanted a duck or spicy.

Just as words news and white and nine and glue, just as words horse and dog,

Just as words eleven and eighteen

The point is making silly claims like going to school is useless is simply silly.

If one wanted to be taken serious by normal Thai, not hookers and taxi drivers, one needs to learn proper Thai.

Self education is natural, just as with any language, you learn more from practice and speaking than in the classroom, but classroom gives you basics to know at least the correct sounds.

Take Australia for example, your home country, have thousands of people who migrated from non english speaking countries and 30 years later they will always have an accent, sometimes hard to understand accent.

For OP to claim he speaks good Thai, shows he is a complete Troll without a single clue.

On your next visit to Thailand, visit Friendship supermarket and spend some time in there.

NO shortage of fluent speakers, who in a sentence of 10 words know 1 Thai word, and then abuse the staff for not understanding them.

[thaichalina]

It's not a waste of time by any means.Actually it's so rewarding because so little foreigners can actually speak proper thai and use tones correctly.It's not like german,italian etc. when most of foreigners can learn language much quicker.

The difficult truth is that it's very hard language and most of the people give up after some time(gods knows there have been many times when i was fed up with learning).Some keep learning thai but stop learning tones.Some never actually learn tones thus make almost impossible for someone to understand them.99% of foreigners that i see never use tones correctly,never use long/short vowels/โ/อ correctly,i've seen maybe dozen of farangs who actually have some knowledge and can speak.

But i don't blame them,it's definitely not easy to remember correct tone for each and every word you know and not forget to pronounce it correctly whilst using it in conversation.

School isn't enough to be able to speak good,MUCH more homework and self learning is needed.

Also,for some who said before that learning tones rules isn't important.IT IS.And it's not that hard to remember,just read some books and in matter of weeks tone rules will stay in your brain.Everytime you see a new word you will know how to pronounce it.

Difference between เผ็ด เป็ด is P sound,not tone

เป็ด (P) is pronounced like (P) in pizza

เผ็ด (PH) is like (PH) Phork(pork)

just like โ and อ

(both are falling tones but O is different)

โ โทษ

/อ ทอด

[manarak]

Thread belongs rather into the pub than the Thai language forum !
LOL

Everyone has a preference for one of the many ways to learn Thai - I've found that being able to "hear" the correct pronounciation in my head helps a lot. I'll miss the right tone if I can't do the correct playback in my imagination first.

Personally, I've found central Thai from Bangkok much easier to understand and imitate, because their pronounciation is much clearer.

[Satcommlee]

Most of these language schools are simply Visa factories now, and of course standards will drop with the inattentive students they will obviously attract.

A two tier system may be a good idea...

1. Language school for sole purpose of Visa

2. Language school for people who actually want to learn thai.

In some ways they could combine the two into one... perhaps call it a standard or intensive courses..

That way the people paying the extra money (proper students) for intensive courses will get a high standard of education.

The rest, can sleep their way through the mandatory hours required to maintain their visa status.

[konying]

It's not a waste of time by any means.Actually it's so rewarding because so little foreigners can actually speak proper thai and use tones correctly.It's not like german,italian etc. when most of foreigners can learn language much quicker.

The difficult truth is that it's very hard language and most of the people give up after some time(gods knows there have been many times when i was fed up with learning).Some keep learning thai but stop learning tones.Some never actually learn tones thus make almost impossible for someone to understand them.99% of foreigners that i see never use tones correctly,never use long/short vowels/โ/อ correctly,i've seen maybe dozen of farangs who actually have some knowledge and can speak.

But i don't blame them,it's definitely not easy to remember correct tone for each and every word you know and not forget to pronounce it correctly whilst using it in conversation.

School isn't enough to be able to speak good,MUCH more homework and self learning is needed.

Also,for some who said before that learning tones rules isn't important.IT IS.And it's not that hard to remember,just read some books and in matter of weeks tone rules will stay in your brain.Everytime you see a new word you will know how to pronounce it.

Difference between เผ็ด เป็ด is P sound,not tone

เป็ด (P) is pronounced like (P) in pizza

เผ็ด (PH) is like (PH) Phork(pork)

just like โ and อ

(both are falling tones but O is different)

โ โทษ

/อ ทอด

Sound/Tone= potato/potato

[Baa_Mango]

Street smarts life and language wise will always go farther and be more useful then purely academic engagement.

I think most people who do not apply their Thai language skills/abilities in various circles or scenarios will end up having mediocre abilities.

I think spewing out the unforgiving and glaringly ignorant generalization "taking Thai language classes a total waste of time and money" seems to already handicap your credibility and probably your Thai skills as well.

The nerd who studies hard but doesn't apply it in real situations will not be very good at Thai, and yes there are TONS of people like this. There are also tons of people who don't read or write, yet have large and impressive vocabularies but than appear to suffer from many Thais not understanding. Often these people may have been in Thailand long term but have learned or practiced with maybe a few people (Thai gf/wife ?) who understand what their partner is saying but don't bother to fix the mistakes especially with pronunciation of certain words, sounds, tons, and vowels.

I don't think it is debatable that learning to read and write will have a positive impact on speaking and understanding. I know some gifted readers and writers of Thai, who actually don't have a great spoken command - possibly due to their introverted nature, or them trying to constantly listen rather than actively engage.

Personally I did 2 months at a BKK language center ( piam mitr?) way back in the day, and I considered it helpful, but had learned reading and writing, mostly solo and with old uni friends. I think structured learning can be helpful but at the end of the day its up to the learner to apply it.

A nice way to look at it may be like this : look at Thai learners of English, many people spent loads of cash on schools, there are language schools all over the place, yet mediocre English is the norm with many of these learners, the people who seem to get decent are the ones who are out talking and interacting with people, rather than trying to memorize grammar rules. blah blah blah

[Baa_Mango]

It's not a waste of time by any means.Actually it's so rewarding because so little foreigners can actually speak proper thai and use tones correctly.It's not like german,italian etc. when most of foreigners can learn language much quicker.

The difficult truth is that it's very hard language and most of the people give up after some time(gods knows there have been many times when i was fed up with learning).Some keep learning thai but stop learning tones.Some never actually learn tones thus make almost impossible for someone to understand them.99% of foreigners that i see never use tones correctly,never use long/short vowels/โ/อ correctly,i've seen maybe dozen of farangs who actually have some knowledge and can speak.

But i don't blame them,it's definitely not easy to remember correct tone for each and every word you know and not forget to pronounce it correctly whilst using it in conversation.

School isn't enough to be able to speak good,MUCH more homework and self learning is needed.

Also,for some who said before that learning tones rules isn't important.IT IS.And it's not that hard to remember,just read some books and in matter of weeks tone rules will stay in your brain.Everytime you see a new word you will know how to pronounce it.

Difference between เผ็ด เป็ด is P sound,not tone

เป็ด (P) is pronounced like (P) in pizza

เผ็ด (PH) is like (PH) Phork(pork)

just like โ and อ

(both are falling tones but O is different)

โ โทษ

/อ ทอด

Sound/Tone= potato/potato

those are different vowels and sounds. what the hell

[konying]

It's not a waste of time by any means.Actually it's so rewarding because so little foreigners can actually speak proper thai and use tones correctly.It's not like german,italian etc. when most of foreigners can learn language much quicker.

The difficult truth is that it's very hard language and most of the people give up after some time(gods knows there have been many times when i was fed up with learning).Some keep learning thai but stop learning tones.Some never actually learn tones thus make almost impossible for someone to understand them.99% of foreigners that i see never use tones correctly,never use long/short vowels/โ/อ correctly,i've seen maybe dozen of farangs who actually have some knowledge and can speak.

But i don't blame them,it's definitely not easy to remember correct tone for each and every word you know and not forget to pronounce it correctly whilst using it in conversation.

School isn't enough to be able to speak good,MUCH more homework and self learning is needed.

Also,for some who said before that learning tones rules isn't important.IT IS.And it's not that hard to remember,just read some books and in matter of weeks tone rules will stay in your brain.Everytime you see a new word you will know how to pronounce it.

Difference between เผ็ด เป็ด is P sound,not tone

เป็ด (P) is pronounced like (P) in pizza

เผ็ด (PH) is like (PH) Phork(pork)

just like โ and อ

(both are falling tones but O is different)

โ โทษ

/อ ทอด

Sound/Tone= potato/potato

those are different vowels and sounds. what the hell

vowels/sounds/tones=potato/potato/potato

vowel (plural vowels)

1. (phonetics) A sound produced by the vocal cords with relatively little restriction of the oral cavity, forming the prominent sound of a syllable.
2. A letter representing the sound of vowel; in English, the vowels are a, e, i, o and u, and sometimes y.

[Ponti001]

Possible to get Ed visa by Muay thai lessons?

Sent from mobile device

[tgeezer]

I think that it is revealing that we can say "same word different tone".

One poster had the right idea; learn the word completely and don't bother with the tone rules. Learn: initial consonent +vowel, duration of vowel, tone, and final sound on live words, know what the word does, and when you need it always say it the way. When it is firmly established in you parlance it will be modified by circumstances.

Always say เขา and sometimes you will find yourself saying เค้า but the context says that you don't mean เค้า.

.

[krisb]

Lol.

Just asked my wife and she said your teacher is wrong.

The tones are the same, the words are different.

I must know more Thai than I think cause I knew you were wrong, but you sounded like you knew what you were talking about.

Anyway, no big deal, we all probably need to learn more.

I'd love the time to attend a school. Sadly right now I can't.

Yes i am sure educated teacher is wrong, but a cleaner is correct

The words are spelt different, but sounds are the same, without the knowledge as i said originally, people would not know if you wanted a duck or spicy.

Just as words news and white and nine and glue, just as words horse and dog,

Just as words eleven and eighteen

The point is making silly claims like going to school is useless is simply silly.

If one wanted to be taken serious by normal Thai, not hookers and taxi drivers, one needs to learn proper Thai.

Self education is natural, just as with any language, you learn more from practice and speaking than in the classroom, but classroom gives you basics to know at least the correct sounds.

Take Australia for example, your home country, have thousands of people who migrated from non english speaking countries and 30 years later they will always have an accent, sometimes hard to understand accent.

For OP to claim he speaks good Thai, shows he is a complete Troll without a single clue.

On your next visit to Thailand, visit Friendship supermarket and spend some time in there.

NO shortage of fluent speakers, who in a sentence of 10 words know 1 Thai word, and then abuse the staff for not understanding them.

You really are a complete and utter douche bag.

If you attempted to put my wife down like that, spit in your face you pathetic waste of space.

[Richard W]

Always say เขา and sometimes you will find yourself saying เค้า but the context says that you don't mean เค้า.

The pronoun เขา is usually pronounced as though it were written เค้า. (It's one of the tone exceptions - several common words with a role in grammar usually have the high tone despite being written with the rising tone. Apparently they once used the now reportedly phonemically extinct 6th tone of Bangkok Thai, a steady high tone.) I presume Tgeezer means that context will distinguish it from the separate word เค้า, which itself has a broad range of meanings.

[David48]

Lol.

Just asked my wife and she said your teacher is wrong.

The tones are the same, the words are different.

I must know more Thai than I think cause I knew you were wrong, but you sounded like you knew what you were talking about.

Anyway, no big deal, we all probably need to learn more.

I'd love the time to attend a school. Sadly right now I can't.

Yes i am sure educated teacher is wrong, but a cleaner is correct

You really are a complete and utter douche bag.

If you attempted to put my wife down like that, spit in your face you pathetic waste of space.

konying ... calling a spade, a spade.

We are all men here ... discussion is robust, nothing wrong with that.

But ... our partners are off limits.

Kris made an even handed comment.

Your reply is snaky ... out of line.

A man of note IMHO, with a concious, would take a step back, apologise.

Argue the facts ... but please leave our partners out of it.

konying ... if someone had a shot at your offsider and I clocked it, I'd step and defend her/him also.

Over to you to show your mettle.

.

[WitawatWatawit]

Given that the "educated teacher" probably does not have a creative bone in his/her pampered body, I'll go with the honest, hard-working cleaner . You're on detention, konying, for being a bore.

[farangdude84]

This is an interesting topic, apart from the personal insults. A couple observations -

1). เผ็ด vs.เป็ด

Not only is the tone different, the consonant is as well. The ป is non-plosive, whereas the ผ is plosive.

2).I have been in Thailand for a tad over 5.5 years and have never once taken Thai class. Now, while it's true that Thais tend to be complimentary of one's language abilities - if you're way off base, they simply won't understand. For myself, language is a way to communicate with people - I'm not running for office here nor do I have any intention to give some sort of speech in Thai. I learn as I go - and most times Thais just speak to me normally, without comment. I can also read and write Thai, having taught myself how to do so. Thus, based on my own personal experience, I could say that shelling out dough for formal Thai lessons isn't necessary. However, I'm not so sure I'd call it a waste of money. Some things that a language school could give students a leg up in:

-various registers

-polite vs. impolite words (i.e. words to avoid using)

-firm grounding in consonant class and tone rules

-a person qualified to answer specific questions pertaining to the Thai language

3). The notion that speaking a language is enough is simple preposterous. I suppose if you enjoy being I-L-L-I-T-E-R-A-T-E, feel free to ignore a vital part to any language. There are so many things that are missed when one cannot read Thai. Chances are - if you can't read Thai you have been paying extra money when there's no need to do so, have gotten lost before, have gone the long way, have run straight into construction instead of avoiding it (something knowing how to read would have let you do), etc. etc. etc. There are actually some decent books written in Thai - but of course, if you can't read Thai, you are missing out on that. Even something as simple as going to a Thai language forum and reading what Thai people write and learning how Thais think - people who can't read Thai miss out on all that. In a country where people do not just ไว้ใจ (waijai) anyone, it is particularly disconcerting that so many foreigners are happy to sign legally binding contracts without the ability to read them.

เรียนวิธีการเขียนภาษาไทยมันไม่ยากเลย

[tgeezer]

This is an interesting topic, apart from the personal insults. A couple observations -

1). เผ็ด vs.เป็ด

Not only is the tone different, the consonant is as well. The ป is non-plosive, whereas the ผ is plosive.

เรียนวิธีการเขียนภาษาไทยมันไม่ยากเลย

From their first appearance เผ็ด เป็ด have been said to have different tones, it's making me doubt myself. It is possible that there is a different understanding of what a tone is, I am thinking of เสียงวรรณยุกต์ of which there are five. These words are both dead words and are low tone are they not?

[SlyAnimal]

This is an interesting topic, apart from the personal insults. A couple observations -

1). เผ็ด vs.เป็ด

Not only is the tone different, the consonant is as well. The ป is non-plosive, whereas the ผ is plosive.

They're the same tone.

Unless you meant เพชร? Which is pronounced the same but with a high tone.

I don't know about plosive and non-plosive, but the words are definitely pronounced quite differently.