German man brutally attacked in Udon Thani by 'Koh Tao copycats'

[Chao Lao Beach]

Even if they are convicted, they will prob be released on bail. Sickening.

[grumbleweed]

We've all seen the regular flow of hair brained schemes eminating from TAT. The worrying thing is that it is not beyond the realms of possibility that such attacks are hushed up in the name of tourism..

Having said that, at the other end of the spctrum: in my experience the Thais I have encountered, of all ages, have been without doubt the most friendly people one could wish to meet. I encounter warmth and kindness on a daily basis. I have never felt intimidated by gangs of youths and have often been invited to sit, eat and drink with them, at their expense I hasten to add. We should be careful not label everyone the same.

Edited November 17, 2014 by grumbleweed

[impulse]

Amazing isn`t it, I have lived here for 31 years and somehow managed to survive all the coups, bird flu scares, pig flu, red shirt and yellow shirt disputes.

Attacks by thugs happen all over the world, probably much more common in Europe, the States and the UK. Thailand in my opinion is still one of the safest destinations for foreigners and like everywhere else, it can be just a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, only bad luck, as being victims of crime can happen to anyone, anywhere at any time.

For those who feel that living or visiting Thailand is a risk, than the solution is simple, live or visit other places where it is believed to be safer.

There’s that faulty “I’ve lived here for decades and I’ve never been robbed” so it must be safe.

Violent crime statistics are published in the order of incidents per 100,000 population. Even in that redneck den of violence, the USA, it’s about 380 per 100,000. That means 99.6% of the people aren’t victims of any violent crime in a given year. It also means I’d have to live there for about 150 years before I had even a 50% chance of being a victim of violent crime.

The much maligned US homicide rate is 4.7 per 100,000, meaning I’d have a 0.15% (1.5 in 1000) chance of being murdered if I lived there for your 31 years. I'd have to live there for around 500 years to have just a 3% chance of being murdered.

Just ‘cause you feel safer- doesn’t mean you are.

BTW, I am a Texas redneck- and proud of it.

Edited November 17, 2014 by impulse

[Noi657]

A park in Udon early morning I thought would be one of the safest places in Thailand, I'm beginning to feel nowhere is safe. Very sad hope this poor man recovers, no one deserves this.

A lot of poor young males hate Farangs that live here all year around as they are spoiling the women and they are to poor to complete.

Here it will be your country if old man from a foreign country to wave money at the women you want to go with

Try not to get pissed everyday! Be violent immature gambling cheating ****s and treat your women with respect from time to time, then maybe just maybe some won't stray with the nasty falang!

[Bluespunk]

Blues,

I wrote this in post #176:

For instance, had the young man been out drinking all night or had he just woken up to watch the sunrise? Knowing this can give an intelligent person insight into how well he may have been able to fend off the attackers and can provide clues into how seriously his injuries are.

----------

I was curious about alcohol and about specific time of incident because I go for morning walk ps every day and I start before sunrise. I have an enlarged prostate and have to piss early and no sense trying to get back to bed. Early morning I can go for a walk and piss every 20' if its one of those mornings.

So its useful to me to know if 5:00 in the morning is no longer safe?

There are all these new posters nowadays and there constant stalking posts have been like a bad case of piles. I am spending so much time trying to get rid of their itch that I don't have the patience I should for convos with the regular guys like you.

My apologies but it was you that read far more into my post than existed and suggested I was insinuating the German was at fault. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Last from me on this.

I did not say you said the victim deserved to be attacked nor did i insinuate as such.

My points were and still are that the violent thugs are talking BS with their self defence lie and whether the victim was drinking or not is utterly irrelevant.

He was attacked because he was there and was foreign (if the OP is correct).

Edited November 17, 2014 by Bluespunk

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Last time i posted that things will get worst, In this time the love of many has gone cold, actually it will continue no matter what they will do to be preventing this, only thing that can stop this is telling them how to love others as they love them selves, with out this, no remedy for this incident not to keep occurring. God love you all.

I am certain that will be pleasing thoughts for the German lying in ICU at the moment.

Thank you for that

[Sheryl]

A post making slurs against all Thais has been removed.

Posters are reminded of forum rule #11 "11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation."

Might also be useful to remember that "Thais" = some 67 million individuals. Among them -- as among most nationalities - there are indeed some violent punks, but they are hardly typical of the entire population.

I've lived here more than 2 decades. In that time, I have encountered prejudice certainly, but only from a minority of people. Vast majority are fine to deal with. My neighbors are friendly and cordial. And both they and other Thais -- including total strangers - have on various occasions shown concern for my well-being and safety here.

So please, let's avoid sweeping generalizations. Antipathy towards farang may have played a part in this horrible incident, but that does not mean that the populace as a whole is seething with hatred and potential violence towards us.

[gchurch259]

I believe those of us who are long term residents/visa extension and can pass a background check should be allowed to carry a pistol concealed. I mean, after all the Thais do with no license !!

[biplanebluey]

Thailand is becoming less of a place to put on the travel list now. I wonder when stats will be forthcoming on just how dangerous Thailand is? I don't mean for foreign travellers but in general..

The Daily Mail did a story on "that" new book yesterday it will no doubt be banned for life for the Mail...........TAT said the writer was "exaggerating"......... OH REALLY!!

Surprised they havent already arrested the writer harming Thailands "image"

WHAT BOOK------- HAVE I MISSED SOMETHING????????????????????

[Noi657]

...is it hatred, stupidity, wickedness? Maybe a combination.

It's racism pure and simple, it's always been there in Thailand, nothing new.

We're just starting to talk about it, that's all.

Racism? Yeah I love being called a good looking white and rich foreigner!

[tingtongtourist]

I believe this latest shocking event will be the straw that break the camels back for many about to travel or decide to extend a visa.

I suspect a lot of long stay foreigner has read/ heard about this negative and hatred sentiment toward us always, but then cast it away as a sensationalism or exaggearate.

That this attack was random and no understandable motive and even worse is that now other young thais with a chip on their shoulder will see this and think..well who knows what they think?

Having a memory of those koh Tao pictures of smiling Thai pictured with hoe and the other guy holding "no sex on the beach" sign.

All of this is really a worry. It must make a lot of people think again...is there something i stupidly mislooked?

Maybe even enough doubt for guys like me to cancel the plane ticket. I hope somebody provide a better argument though!

Edited November 17, 2014 by tingtongtourist

[bronzetaurus]

The present army government should make harsher laws for cold murderers like these to serve as an example. By simply sending them to prison they will not mind as they are animals and have no respect for anyone.

If for cold blooded murders a form of public execution is introduced, then the perpetrators will know forehand what they will face for their actions.

Scum like these have no right to live amongst decent people of any nationality.

The army is doing a great job in my opinion of cleaning Thailand from distortion and corruption and we hope to see more action taken in such instances.

I love Thailand , its people, and its traditions, but it is a pity to see so many crimes occurring daily against farang.

Harsher penalties and death sentence is the cure.

God bless the King.

[murphya33]

Maybe their DNA should be checked and compared to Ko Tao case. We may have serial hoe clubbers on our hands.

[Thomas33399]

This is Thailand.

If you have an honest Thai girlfriend or Thai friends you work with they will tell you there are plenty of these people around. They will only tell you this once they get to know, respect and like you for a long time.

This is a hostile country. It just so happens that people who are unaware of it manage to secrete themselves away from it by their stay at home retirement / holiday lifestyles.

[monkeycountry]

It still does not change the fact that what you wrote was actually not stated in the article and was factually wrong according to the quote I posted.

Yes, the current charge may well fit the crime, but I dare you to find any criminal code anywhere where any form of assault (not leading to death) is a more serious crime than attempted murder :-)

Further in criminal cases the prosecution will usually (if not always) go for the most severe charge, at least till a deal is struck.

MonkeyCountry, I will ask once again--Do you have any knowledge of Thai Criminal Law? Or are you attempting to apply the laws of your own country here in Thailand?

I am interested in facts--not in assumptions made by posters who rant and rave about how bad Thailand is.

Are the statements you have made based on knowledge of Thai Law and Precedent?

-----------

Now here are the points I made that disproved your claim the police had been incompetent:

Within hours the RTP have

-- identified the attackers,

-- arrested the attackers,

-- located the weapon used in the assault,

-- gotten statements of guilt from the attackers, and

-- are ready to pursue additional charges.

Each of these statements is true and clearly indicated in the article. In other words, your accusation failed at all levels. You cannot prove your claim of incompetence.

If you can then please do so now. Otherwise, you are offering a straw-man argument because you got called for your BS.

BTW, some posters could easily misinterpret your username as being a racist moniker against the Thai people, ie a country full of monkeys.

I see you managed to retype your previous post, just longer :-)

Anyway, I see several other posters have given up debating with you, I understand why, and will follow in their footsteps.

I am sure the other readers can decide for themselves who is right and wrong. You and I will never agree on anything anyway.

Have a nice evening :-)

Btw, feel free to interpret my username any way you like :-)

Edited November 17, 2014 by monkeycountry

[ClutchClark]

Attention MonkeyCountry:

Here is a well written post from another thread which defines "murder":

"For it to be murder there has to be the premeditation of killing not just harming the victim. The 'murderers' hit the victim once, observed her stand back up, then they walked off. They did not think she would die and did not want her to die or they would have continued to hit her until she was certainly dead, therefore not murder. "

If we accept this as the definition of murder then wouldn't these same requirements be necessary to show "attempted murder" except for the actual completion of the act?

Did the 3 attackers think they had killed the German? Did they continue to hit the German until they thought he was dead? Or did they walk off while the German was still crawling or writhing around or screaming in pain? If they did then by the posters definition above, they could not have been intent on causing murder. The article did not provide those details. The police would have been more likely to be aware of such details from their investigation and considered such when they filed charges, correct?

Its interesting that the poster whom I quoted above argued for a lesser charge against the two men who attacked the Dutchman and his wife but is now arguing for a more serious charge against these three attackers. BTW, the quote can be attributed to MonkeyCountry.

Cheers

Edited November 17, 2014 by ClutchClark

[Alwyn]

Here's an article from the DM on Saturday. As a useful little tip, if you're blocked from the DM online, google chrome has a free app called 'Hola' which works similar to a VPN and confuses the local server to think you're in the UK. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2833369/Thailand-one-dangerous-tourist-destinations-Earth-Ex-pat-investigation-lifts-lid-dark-Land-Smiles.html

regards

[Emster23]

Clearly the victim's fault: If he not come to Thailand, he probably not get attacked by Thai teenagers with big arse hoe. That is sort of logic prevalent here.

[ClutchClark]

It still does not change the fact that what you wrote was actually not stated in the article and was factually wrong according to the quote I posted.

Yes, the current charge may well fit the crime, but I dare you to find any criminal code anywhere where any form of assault (not leading to death) is a more serious crime than attempted murder :-)

Further in criminal cases the prosecution will usually (if not always) go for the most severe charge, at least till a deal is struck.

MonkeyCountry, I will ask once again--Do you have any knowledge of Thai Criminal Law? Or are you attempting to apply the laws of your own country here in Thailand?

I am interested in facts--not in assumptions made by posters who rant and rave about how bad Thailand is.

Are the statements you have made based on knowledge of Thai Law and Precedent?

-----------

Now here are the points I made that disproved your claim the police had been incompetent:

Within hours the RTP have

-- identified the attackers,

-- arrested the attackers,

-- located the weapon used in the assault,

-- gotten statements of guilt from the attackers, and

-- are ready to pursue additional charges.

Each of these statements is true and clearly indicated in the article. In other words, your accusation failed at all levels. You cannot prove your claim of incompetence.

If you can then please do so now. Otherwise, you are offering a straw-man argument because you got called for your BS.

BTW, some posters could easily misinterpret your username as being a racist moniker against the Thai people, ie a country full of monkeys.

I see you managed to retype your previous post, just longer :-)

Anyway, I see several other posters have given up debating with you, I understand why, and will follow in their footsteps.

I am sure the other readers can decide for themselves who is right and wrong. You and I will never agree anyway on anything anyway.

Have a nice evening :-)

I was concerned my previous post had been to abbreviated and possibly was not easy to understand so I tried to make it more readable. Apparently it was readable and you simply were exposed and without defense of your earlier claim of incompetence, you are choosing to throw in the towel. But please don't smokescreen your inability to respond as being because of other posters.

Enjoy your evening.

[ClutchClark]

Clearly the victim's fault: If he not come to Thailand, he probably not get attacked by Thai teenagers with big arse hoe. That is sort of logic prevalent here.

In this entire thread, no one has made the suggestion the German victim was at fault.

[charmonman]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Wow! Incredible.
A nasty and vicious attack from the sounds of this and totally unprovoked.
I really do hope the German guy does survive with his faculties and abilities intact.

These 3 need some severe punishment to prevent more copycat attacks.

Thank god it doesn't happen in the west...unprovoked attacks by young thugs on defenceless victims. Almost unheard of eh?

So .. that makes it acceptable for it to happen in Thailand then? What is your point?

I don't know about you, but I came to Thailand because I thought it was better than "the west". Now, over the past several years or more, it seems to have sunk to the same level or worse ... a damned shame.

[greenchair]

My friend just got wacked on the head with a weapon. Trouble is the sentencing of these crime does not get enough coverage.

I really wish the rtp would clear up this kt thing.

[Briggsy]

Attack occurred at 4 am.

Youths were well-known to police and had been in trouble before.

Victim's name is Michael Nuser (transliteration).

[zydeco]

I've been casually looking at walking sticks (Canes) for quite awhile but just can't seem to find the right one. The other day while sitting down and eating dinner at a restaurant in walks this older man with his wife. He was using what appeared to be a Cane. As he walked passed my table and upon closer examination the Cane that he was using wasn't a Cane at all... He was using a Golf Club for his Cane.

I've now stopped looking and I know exactly what type of multi purpose Cane I'll start using.

A graphite shaft won't bend and is stronger against breakage. Steel shafts are thin walled and bend or break easily unless you fill them with concrete.

Oh, heck. Just carry a hockey stick. One with a Bobby Hull type curve in the blade.

[charmonman]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

This is Thailand.

If you have an honest Thai girlfriend or Thai friends you work with they will tell you there are plenty of these people around. They will only tell you this once they get to know, respect and like you for a long time.

This is a hostile country. It just so happens that people who are unaware of it manage to secrete themselves away from it by their stay at home retirement / holiday lifestyles.

If this is Thailand now, and you may be right, it was not in the past. In the early to mid nineties, I worked for an all Thai company as the only farang, I had many close Thai friends, lived in an ordinary Thai neighborhood, and only on rare occasions did I encounter even minor hostility from Thai people. At that time I considered the Thais to be among the most kind and decent on earth.

I still generally find it to be a relatively pleasant place, but there has definitely been a change in the culture over the years, and not for the better. If these three little punks are any indication of a trend, I fear for the future of Thailand.

[ClutchClark]

Attack occurred at 4 am.

Youths were well-known to police and had been in trouble before.

Victim's name is Michael Nuser (transliteration).

Thanks for the details Briggsy.

Much appreciated. I go for early morning walks and theres a big difference in the amount of scum on the street at 0400 compared to 0500 in my neighborhood.

[atyclb]

Indeed. The mind boggles. Was it totally random? Is the victim a decent looking fellow, or a tattooed meat-head. Can't help wondering that there is more to this story, and may well come to light in the near future.

Please don't try and blame the victim. Even if it makes you feel safer that it could never happen to you. These guys were carrying a hoe around. You think they didn't intend to do anything bad and just stumbled across the hoe at the same time as they saw the foreigner in the park? Clearly a case of a premeditated attack.

I really hope the German recovers without permanent disability and the courts lock these guys up for a very long time. I fear the punishment will depend on whether the foreign press get hold of this.

The article clearly stated they were carrying the hoe for protection against rival groups (gangs).

The question asked by Techikall was a reasonable one and gave no indication of blaming the victim.

I am curious if the victim had been drinking with his two friends.

Carrying a hoe for protection, yeah right.

That's what every well hard teenager does. Nothing looks cooler than a hoe in your hand.

Don't think that story carries any truth whatsoever, in fact I'd say its just BS.

As for whether the German was drinking or not, why is that relevant?

He wants to drink he can, it's not a crime, whereas unprovoked, premeditated, violent assault with a deadly weapon is.

It would seem many expats also travel with hoes, or is that mispelled ?

Edited November 17, 2014 by atyclb

[Scully]

Attention MonkeyCountry:

Here is a well written post from another thread which defines "murder":

"For it to be murder there has to be the premeditation of killing not just harming the victim. The 'murderers' hit the victim once, observed her stand back up, then they walked off. They did not think she would die and did not want her to die or they would have continued to hit her until she was certainly dead, therefore not murder. "

If we accept this as the definition of murder then wouldn't these same requirements be necessary to show "attempted murder" except for the actual completion of the act?

Did the 3 attackers think they had killed the German? Did they continue to hit the German until they thought he was dead? Or did they walk off while the German was still crawling or writhing around or screaming in pain? If they did then by the posters definition above, they could not have been intent on causing murder. The article did not provide those details. The police would have been more likely to be aware of such details from their investigation and considered such when they filed charges, correct?

Its interesting that the poster whom I quoted above argued for a lesser charge against the two men who attacked the Dutchman and his wife but is now arguing for a more serious charge against these three attackers. BTW, the quote can be attributed to MonkeyCountry.

Cheers

What are you chuntering on about cc?. These Thai lads went armed with the intention of a copy cat murder and I really hope they don't succeed. Hitting a man in the head with a hoe in anybody's book will likely cause death, attempted murder is a charge in Thailand and should be used.

[ableguy]

What was a farang doing in a park with two Thais early in the morning, by early was it one or two am ? Was this a homo phobic crime ? Just playing the Devils advocate.

Whatever the case I hope the man survives and this scum gets punishment they deserve suspect though the minor will get off with a smack on the hand.

[Carrerakiss]

An interesting extrapolation to this sad case is that the Ministeress of Tourism is proposing to promote secondary, more rural destinations within Thailand. Petchabun, Lampang etc, for tourism.

But I wonder, if indeed the campaign is successful, are these less developed more rural areas ready for tourism and the farang that it might bring into their area?

It's a bit of a rhetorical question because the probability of farang "flocking" to these areas in any great numbers is almost laughable. But I could imagine if it were successful, it might end up as a two edged sword.