Am I being paranoid? Or does this deal smell extremely fishy?

[NamKAheng]

When it smell fishy it's because there is a fish somewhere in that deal.

[rak sa_ngop]

Even if you get the Chanote 'in your own name' how will you know that all the paperwork filed in the Land Office is in your name i.e. passport copy etc.

Because the name on the Chanote will be in Thai and transliterated to sound like your name, but maybe actually be somebody else. My condo Chanote has a very strange Thai version of my name, and there is no passport number listed. I assume that my file in the Land Office contains copies of my (out of date) passport etc.

I have been in my condo 9 years so I THINK I am ok!

[dean008]

Some good advice here, and I wish you good luck and hope all turns out well. I contacted a lawyer with some queries a while back, the first email I had from them confirmed they had no dealings with the other party, so there was no conflict of interest and they where able to handle my case. I do not see it unreasonable to ask the lawyers what they were discussing with the seller, and if the seller is a client how they can be representing both of you, I certainly think it is unethical and perhaps not strictly legal (logic would say so , but.....)

once again good luck

[rayongchelsea]

If you can identify a trustworthy lawyer, it might be advisable to pay for a second opinion for your peace of mind.

If you can identify a trustworthy lawyer in Thailand, catch him and take a DNA sample and have him cloned as he is surely the only one of his species.

I don't think that anyone involved with property sales in Thailand is to be trusted.

I have found Kuhn Somsak from ask the lawyer segment in this forum to be as close as you

can get to a strait shooter old school, once you talk to him, you get the feeling that he can

get the job done and you don't have to sell blood to pay his fees...

Our committee voted unanimously not to use him after initial discussions, we lost our deposit ( fair enough).

Edited November 18, 2014 by rayongchelsea

[dman]

Az sl Roa

[Crossy]

Off topic posts removed.

[jpinx]

If the OP needs any evidence of his need to be worried that the Land Office might do him over, he needs to read this

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/777573-thai-bureaucracy-land-offices-most-corrupt-police-ranks-2nd-worst-in-survey/?utm_source=newsletter-20141119-0734&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

[Robert24]

I agree with Britmantoo. It's unusual having to pay a deposit of 10% for a straight purchase of an existing condo. Go to the land office, transfer ownership of chanot, pay 100% at land office with a cashier's cheque. And definitely go yourself to the land office, usually straight forward. Whilst the whole process may take maybe 2 hours or so, it's still better to go there in person.

Nothing against lawyers though, it's good that they do some basic checks on the chanot and property. I've always done that. Maybe not necessary if you are very experienced, but since this is a foreign country and you may only have done 2-3 property trx, I think it's still better to have them there.

[Globalist]

Another question:

One more issue came up during the meeting today and now that I think of it, maybe it's relevant:

Another document I presented today was the Foreign Exchange Transaction form. The point of this document, is to prove that the funds for the condominium purchase originated offshore. I got the document from Bangkok Bank and it was stamped and signed at the bank. The document shows the "Sender" and the "Recipient". I am the recipient, of course. But the sender is my (personal) corporate entity in the USA -- which does not bear my name. The lawyers said this was unacceptable, and it needed to show my name -- despite the fact that the forms were clearly signed and stamped by the bank to confirm that the funds had in fact originated offshore.

My understanding is that the sole requirement under the Condominium Act is that the funds originated offshore. I have never heard of a requirement that says the funds originated from one's own personal account bearing the same name offshore. Is this right?

Thanks again everyone for the great advice.

I seem to remember this precise question asked at this forum, at the "Ask the lawyer" section. I believe the response was that provided that the money originates abroad and is sent in foreign currency to you as a recipient in Thailand, then the originator does not matter. You could search the forum for that one.

[Robert2006]

If you have an intuition something is not right it would be wise for you to take some additional steps to provide some added protection for yourself. Now that you have released your deposit and signed the contract obviously you have more liability and it is more difficult to unwind out of the situation but it’s not that hard to unwind. Don’t forget and let it be known you still have control of 90% of your money, you are still the one with the power you have not lost your supremacy in this negotiation.

Here is a possible plan of action for you: relieve your legal team on this transaction, hire a new Attorney. Unless you have given the deposit directly to the seller have your new Attorney draft a release and arrange for your deposit to be assigned to their account for dispersal to the Seller at closing. If they will not release the deposit then the old Attorney can act as an escrow agent, a third party holding the funds until closing. Have your new team review your contract for irregularities and confirm the tile is clean. Explain to your new Attorney you will be present at the Land Office were you will oversee with your Attorney’s assistance the recording of your evidence of ownership.

You will have to pay your old Attorney for their services but better safe than sorry. If anything is out of order you cannot be bound to contract that was obtained fraudulently, the contract becomes null and void. Personally I wish you would have done that immediately when you realized they were meeting without you in the room but I think anyone would be a little blindsided by that situation. I don’t know if it is illegal but it certainly is inappropriate and it would make me suspicions as well.

[Kasset Tak]

I have heard so many good lawyer jokes but they all escape me now. I have had so many bad experiences with lawyers I have lost count the worst lawyers in the world are in Latin America Mexico to be specific. My last bad experience was paying some jerk lawyer $300 an hour while waiting in divorce court. We waited 5 hrs. to see a judge and he twiddled his thumbs and billed me $1500. The courts were so backed up and he was like a taxi with the meter running. The government could not keep the court system on track and I paid. Of course if I had missed my court date I would have paid more.

- What is a thousand lawyers on the bottom of the ocean?

- A good start.

[NCC1701A]

your attorney is in secret meetings?

with the people?

you hired him to protect you from?

your body guard was in secret meetings?

in the worst country in the world?

walk away and get to a safe house.

only the paranoid survive in Thailand.

Edited November 20, 2014 by NCC1701A

[marcusd]

LEAVE THIS DEAL ALONE. You are going to get stung. Why not go to the land office? There is something wrong. If it smells then there is something stinky right?

[marney]

You need to be very careful have you been to a translater with all your paper work that has nothing to do with this purchase i have a friend in koh samui who is a laywor they do alot of translation for this same issue it costs around 700-1000 baht per page but its well worth it.

[fey]

enters room and smiles. helps himself to some cookie crumbs and water. sits down and asks what they were discussing in his absence and asks to see related documents.

you only get one chance to find out the truth on their faces.

[A1Str8]

Well if you have major red flags then DON'T do it! It's that simple.

Always trust your feelings.

[fey]

Well if you have major red flags then DON'T do it! It's that simple.

Always trust your feelings.

that only work is your feelings are accurate and your not mis-interpreting things.

[mjcmjc]

Senechal,

Please can you update us about your suspicions with your lawyer? I hope you were wrong, did the purchase go ahead?

With regard to translations, I would remove addresses and contact numbers first, just in case of collaboration between the lawyer, seller and translator.

[ExPratt]

I think I would have asked them straight out what was going on, As mentioned by other posters, there are some really Moody Briefs in Thailand. I met several of them when attaining My kids Custody

[thaipod]

Smells fishy to me I would of asked why they are having a meeting with them and then pulled the plug. Tell them you will find someone else.

Edited February 25, 2015 by thaipod

[fey]

could have been an airhead secretary who asked you to wait while she checked with them when in fact they arrived early and were conducting small talk until you arrived.

its common for meetings to just start if your at all late

[cheeryble]

What you call an LOI should be a purchase agreement.

Yes it may have a deposit involved....it's all up to what you agree to.

A purchase agreement is a contract and legally binding.

You may lose your deposit for no performance but there should also be a clause binding the other person to a penalty usually based on your deposit e.g. return the deposit and pay an equal sum in recompense for failure to complete (although they can in fact be forced to complete in court or pay appropriate compensation but who needs it)

Don't see how your lawyer can profit if you already agreed the deal particulars.

This may be a storm in a teacup.

[Langsuan Man]

I can sort of understand why they don't want you at the Land Office, because if you are there then they will have to be there also, instead of sending a low wage clerk and billing you for a "lawyer"

The " pre meeting " in my opinion is the biggest red flag. Any lawyers really representing your interests would have told the seller that they should wait until you arrived

Legally it is referred to as ex parte conversation, and is not only unethical , but in many jurisdictions illegal

[Thongkorn]

What do you mean "Was it clean"? The lawyers have assured me there is no debt or encumbrance on the unit. I have all the paperwork, although I'm not able to understand it - so I'm relying on my laywers' advice.

Any Money borrowed on the building or land is writes on the back of the chanut, also it does not take long at the Ampher, We got the wife's Chanut name changed in about

two hours, I think they take 2% of value of property/land, also seller pays that. have you actually seen the chanut.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Thongkorn

[swissie]

Your not going to the LO, sort of suggests they won't be registering the property in your name.

Can't think of any other reason.

The other reason agents don't want buyer and seller meeting, is skimming.

Seller sells for 2M, buyer buys for 3M, agent pockets 1M

But you say you negotiated the price yourself ...... unless the person you think is the seller is an agent impersonating the real seller.

Then you get a few fantasy ideas,

Real owner dead, they're stealing from the real owners estate.

Real owner doesn't know his property is being sold.

Quote from above:

"The other reason agents don't want buyer and seller meeting, is skimming.

Seller sells for 2M, buyer buys for 3M, agent pockets 1M

But you say you negotiated the price yourself ...... unless the person you think is the seller is an agent impersonating the real seller. "

-----------------------------------------------

Probably the most relevant post ever written in this "real estate" TVF sub-forum. As far as the purchase price of a condominium is concerned.

The "real-estate-cowboys" (Farang or Thai) have discovered, that a regular commission of 3.5 to 5% is slim pickings in a declining market (fewer sales) compared to above described proceedings.

Fairly common procedure in "Tourist-Hub's" these days. If you don't believe it, consult an expensive Thai-Lawer in combination with the advice of Thai-Wife/GF. Can't go wrong !

Cheers.

[Hopho]

So.... OP.... did you survive it? or was he clipped as he left the Land Office?

[fey]

Your not going to the LO, sort of suggests they won't be registering the property in your name.

Can't think of any other reason.

The other reason agents don't want buyer and seller meeting, is skimming.

Seller sells for 2M, buyer buys for 3M, agent pockets 1M

how is that possible when both parties are signing the contract and each gets a copy?