Thai junta crafts bill to curb street demonstrations

[lust]

Do the people forget that permission is not required when you take over a city and have a full out fire fight with the police? Do the police forget about grenades thrown directly at them lol.

Oh, but this time they will make it illegal. You must now seek permission first to burn down a shopping center now or they will write an angry letter stating how angry they are.

[ramrod711]

Under the bill organisers of political protests will now have to seek police permission for them 24 hours in advance and will no longer be able to seize government buildings or transport hubs such as airports.

In many countries there are such laws, if you want to hold a rally, a parade or a protest you must obtain a permit. The permit contains the pertinent information, such as, who, when, for how long and the type of activity. I don't suppose there are many cities that would grant a permit which would allow you to block a major intersection, move in to a self made fortress, burn tires, gasoline tankers and busses for four months. I am happy about that, it shows a certain responsibility towards the city's inhabitants, you obviously feel differently and would welcome such a mob in front of your place of business. There is nothing dangerous or new in a bill like this as long as there are the same standards for all.

[Orac]

How about a bill to stop military coups every few years?

Aren't coups already against the law?

Exactly - this is why they have to tear up the constitution every time. Without somehow disbanding the armed forces I don't think you will ever stop coups here - it is built into the DNA that they must have one every few years. Remember Thanon who had a coup to topple the government in Nov '71 when he was already PM effectively overthrowing himself.

[yellowboat]

Why do the junta need to waste time on bills or rules when they can easily hold a coup anytime they want?

They do not want people protesting against them. They do not want people calling attention to their mistakes and misdeeds

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

How about a bill to stop military coups every few years?

Aren't coups already against the law?

Coups were against the 2007 Constitution by failing to meet the prescribed methods for changing the constitution and Gen. Prayuth admitted that his coup was a crime as such. That was why the NCPO abolished the constitution and included amensty for the military in its Interim Charter that was endorsed by the King.

Coups are not expressively forbidden by the Interim Charter, but under Articles 17 and 44 the military through the NCPO doesn't need to stage a coup to alter any future political movement or change in the government - NCPO has absolute power over the government. It has the right at any time by whatever reason to issue its own laws, amend or rescind legislated laws; overtune any judicial ruling, and try citizens in a military court for which there is no appeal.

Obviously, any law that holds coups as illegal is a sham so long as the military has the power to ignore the law. There would have to be a more fundamental reform in the Thai system of governance to place restraints on miitary coups. But such reform would require a complete inversion of the Thai oligarchy in the power structure that will not and cannot happen under the Interim Charter and any NCPO approved constitution.

[whybother]

Coups were against the 2007 Constitution by failing to meet the prescribed methods for changing the constitution and Gen. Prayuth admitted that his coup was a crime as such. That was why the NCPO abolished the constitution and included amensty for the military in its Interim Charter that was endorsed by the King.

Coups are not expressively forbidden by the Interim Charter, but under Articles 17 and 44 the military through the NCPO doesn't need to stage a coup to alter any future political movement or change in the government - NCPO has absolute power over the government. It has the right at any time by whatever reason to issue its own laws, amend or rescind legislated laws; overtune any judicial ruling, and try citizens in a military court for which there is no appeal.

Obviously, any law that holds coups as illegal is a sham so long as the military has the power to ignore the law. There would have to be a more fundamental reform in the Thai system of governance to place restraints on miitary coups. But such reform would require a complete inversion of the Thai oligarchy in the power structure that will not and cannot happen under the Interim Charter and any NCPO approved constitution.

"any law that holds coups as illegal is a sham so long as the military has the power to ignore the law."

What's that supposed to mean? Every country's military has the power to ignore the law.

I really get lost for words when people suggest that there should be more laws against coups. <deleted> difference does it make? When a group commits a coup, any law against it gets thrown out the window.

[rickirs]

Democracy created by sham becomes a sham.

The Nation 2014-01-03

"The top brass disagree with the imposition of an emergency decree despite the People's Democratic Reform Committee's threat to "shut down" the capital on January 13 to force Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to step down. … The armed forces have made it clear that the soldiers assigned to deal with the protesters will carry only batons and shields, so the emergency law would not be of much help to the government, a security source said."

2014-01-07

"The army is not in the position to solve all problems and the government should avoid using "strong medicine" which is dangerous,” – Gen. Prayuth

2014-05-10

“The Army Chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha has reiterated that a coup d’etat is not the ultimate solution to the political conflict that has dragged on for more than eight years.”

“He personally believes that a coup d’etat wouldn't end the years-long conflict between the two major political camps and whatever decision the military made, there would always be unfair criticism,”

“Therefore, General Prayuth urged everyone involved to seek a solution that is in accordance with the rule of law and warned that the law should not be used as a weapon to attack political opponents.”

[whatawonderfulday]

Why do the junta need to waste time on bills or rules when they can easily hold a coup anytime they want?

Leave things as they are and it might not be so easy the next time. The masses from the North are not going to keep on copping this Yellow shirt shit. If they are not carefull Thailand just might split in two. Yellow to the South and Red to the north, and guess who will be the strongest.

That is an excellent question to ask. Now here is another one for you.

Excluding the South of Thailand 80% of the nations natural water supply comes from the North, North West and North Eastern regions of Thailand due to reservoirs / rainfall. Boreholes in Bangkok and extensively throughout central regions are becoming progressively saline, water table is dropping due to intense extraction and hence the increased dependence upon those natural resources.

If the current self appointed government, even though it is seen by outsiders as economically illiterate and less credible then any of recent years which is saying something, are fully aware of the energy requirements for the future. Even today the importation costs for natural gas are a significant chunk out of the national budget and with exports declining and possibly with full ASEAN working from next year, declining further, then there are huge budget shortfalls approaching that will accelerate the economic decline. Why does that matter, well you can fool some of the people all of the time but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.

The decline in predominately gas from the Gulf of Thailand is the reason for the recent push to award a further 6 offshore and 19 onshore exploration sites early next year. Even then Gulf gas will deplete based on current reservoir assessment 2024, yes 10 years time. Why does that exploration matter ? well the Korat basin ( yes folks unfortunately for all the elite/yellow lovers that is Issan !!) contains an estimated shale gas potential that would maintain the countries current and growing energy demand for around 50 years if it could be produced economically, a matter that the US are leading the game on. Thailand is actually 19th in the league table of potential world shale gas deposits.

All the above is in the public domain either from the Thai MoE or elsewhere so just google it.

So what does that mean when I said above here is another question for you ?

Well you stated "Yellow to the South and Red to the north, and guess who will be the strongest" . So my question with the future natural energy and water supplies being in the North and north Eastern parts of Thailand , yes I will say it again - Issan, guess who really will be the strongest ?

In this world you generally find "what goes round comes round" it may take years, it may take decades and in some cases perhaps centuries, ask the Israelis. Now the exploitation last century of the poor folk from the North/North East generally by the families of the current elite / well connected that has still drifted into the current century. A century prior to that the forcible relocation of 3 areas of what is now LAOS/Cambodia ( to break up the remaining troublesome Kymers) and forcing them into what become known as Issan, (don't believe ? it then spend some time checking up on Thai history in 1700's ) and then perhaps you can perhaps understand why many important families are really worried about the future. Something that even the General and his men's current attempt to reintroduce the feudal system will be unable to alter.

Only time will tell.

[pookiki]

How about a bill to stop military coups every few years?

And which should be applied retroactively as are all other matters - e.g. impeachments.

Edited November 19, 2014 by pookiki

[mike324]

Under the bill organisers of political protests will now have to seek police permission for them 24 hours in advance and will no longer be able to seize government buildings or transport hubs such as airports.

In many countries there are such laws, if you want to hold a rally, a parade or a protest you must obtain a permit. The permit contains the pertinent information, such as, who, when, for how long and the type of activity. I don't suppose there are many cities that would grant a permit which would allow you to block a major intersection, move in to a self made fortress, burn tires, gasoline tankers and busses for four months. I am happy about that, it shows a certain responsibility towards the city's inhabitants, you obviously feel differently and would welcome such a mob in front of your place of business. There is nothing dangerous or new in a bill like this as long as there are the same standards for all.

There is already a bill, perhaps not bill maybe a law or whatever they call it in in Thailand that says you must obtain a permit, have an ambulance present if you have more than X amount of people gathering, etc. Most normal folks go through that process, I agree this bill be be good to enforce the laws for folks who think they can stomp over any law that gets in their way.

Or we can just have police enforce the laws, but we know they can't do that.

Edited November 19, 2014 by mike324

[fab4]

Mmmm, the man in charge of the military's crackdown on protesters in 2010 whose urban protest clearance tactics included the use of snipers marksmen and live fire zones, states that his handpicked NLA are to promulgate a law that will dictate "how authorities can deal with protesters"......................

What could possibly go wrong?.................................

the police won't enforce them, maybe?

Not that old chestnut, I suggest you do a bit more research and take the apocryphal tales you read on here with a bushel of salt...............................

An old chestnut that happens to be factual. The police failed to do their duty - as per usual.

What research to the contrary have you been able to find then Fabs ?

Demonstrators clash with police in Bangkok. Photograph: ROSLAN RAHMAN/AFP/Getty Images (10th April)

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/4/10/1270932523709/thailand-riot-001.jpg

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/47698000/jpg/_47698155_009161799-1.jpg (23rd April 2010)

Several images showing police on the streets (20th May 2010)

http://www.ctvnews.ca/bangkok-cleans-up-but-are-the-red-shirts-done-1.514533

Edited November 19, 2014 by fab4

[jacky54]

will it still be 'land of the free'?

[MobileContent]

Strange - Last time when Suthep's thugs went into government buildings several courts issued statements that it is ok.

Any way it doesn't really matter. Thailand might want to evaluate the situation in Malaysia. Even if the police give no permission the reformasi movement still goes to the streets.

[ramrod711]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBDm-jA3N80

The police couldn't detect truck loads of bamboo and used tires, or maybe they didn't care. Open the link and see what a good job they did. How do Fab 4s photos compare to this video. Remember when he posted about the Shins not being perfect? me neither.

[than]

This kind of law exists in many Western countries. In western countries protests are closely supervised by Authorize

In France, the demonstrations on public roads are subject to the requirement of a prior statement of the purpose of the event, place, date and time of the meeting and the proposed route. The authorities may ask the organizers of route changes or schedule. They can ban a demonstration if they consider it likely to disturb public order or if his motives are contrary to the law.

Also, under Article 431-3 of the Penal Code, "any gathering of people on the street or in a public place likely to undermine public order can be dissipated by the public force "after the customary warning. Call in an unauthorized demonstration is considered as a crime.

In United Kingdom, under the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 and the Terrorism Act 2006, there are areas designated as 'protected sites' where people are not allowed to protest. Previously, trespasser to these areas could not be arrested if they had not committed another crime and agreed to be escorted out, but this will change following amendments to the law.

Edited November 19, 2014 by than

[jpeg]

otherwise their constitutional rights to rally would be violated

I'm not a supporter of either colour, Green (Independent) would've got my vote, if I were allowed, but the Reds did not RALLY they RIOTED. I know, I was caught right up in the middle of them with their bloody petrol bombs and launching rockets at the skytrain, all egged on by that megalomaniac Taksin from his safe hidey hole in the desert, after he'd airlifted the rest of his parasitical family out. You may be not particularly happy with the current lot as am I, but please posters, do not confuse the rabble that were the majority of Taksin's army with this one.

[mike324]

Used to be a big fan of Thaksin in the late 90s, as a matter of fact almost 50% of supporters in Bangkok, or the "elites" many like to call it support and welcome Thaksin. He brought changed to the poor, not only that, he had many policies that also benefited the industrial sector and put Thailand on the international spot light. But throughout the better part of the decade where TRT and PTP was in office, people could see they are just a greedy family enriching themselves and misleading the poor for their own gain. Hence I'm willing to give the Dems another chance, even Prayuth. Abhisit was a rising star and squeaky clean figure, to bad he was pulled into the mess that tarnished his image. It is changes like this that will improve the society. We need to be able to switch and support the opposition when we feel like the other party is not performing their duties properly.

I mean it goes without saying corruption is rife and it will take time, but without change everything is stagnant. It if weren't for Thaksin, the low income will be neglected, no 30 baht heathcare. If it weren't for the Dems 2007 Charter change, we will still have laws stating that PM can revoke media licenses if they are displeased with whats reported. If it weren't for Prayuth, police and politicians won't clean up their acts. Its time for Prayuth to leave and move on with the next changes and improvements, thats the next challenge ahead.

The most useless PM in this past decade would probably be Yingluck, not a single improvement, they were solely focused on winning support and giving amnesty to all convicted politicians. I guess I'll give the PTP credit for raising the minimum wage, that was long overdue.

I do feel that Thailand is changing for the better, there are some setbacks but you can't expect Thailand to be like a first world nation over night, it'll take at least another 20 or so years to reach that level. Once Thailand reaches that level, you old farts will probably be in the grave or in Cambodia or Laos complaining about the same issues.

[candide]

One aspect of the problem they have to solve: the different branches of the old elite, including the judicial branch as shown before, have set a kind of legal precedent. In particular, it has been allowed to occupy government building, to prevent assembly and government from meeting, and to block elections.

So the red shirts should be allowed to do the same, otherwise it is a case of "double standards"

So they need to change the law if they don't want this to happen.

[billd766]

Mmmm, the man in charge of the military's crackdown on protesters in 2010 whose urban protest clearance tactics included the use of snipers marksmen and live fire zones, states that his handpicked NLA are to promulgate a law that will dictate "how authorities can deal with protesters"......................

What could possibly go wrong?.................................

the police won't enforce them, maybe?

Not that old chestnut, I suggest you do a bit more research and take the apocryphal tales you read on here with a bushel of salt...............................

I saw the police around in 2014 playing at enforcing the law quite unsuccessfully but at least they turned up.

So where were the police in 2010 when they should have been enforcing the law?

[billd766]

"Protests by royalist anti-Thaksin forces helped prod the army into a coup in 2006 to topple him"

Why do AFP repeatedly trot this lie out.

• do they believe the Shin propaganda that Thaksin parties are really some kind of left wing power to the people socialists?
• Are the fooled by the Shin lobbyists and PR machine into believing there "economical with the truth versions" of history?
• are they too unprofessional or lazy to do some research and report the facts?
• do they just cut and paste?

Maybe they ought to do a tad of research on the circumstances. They might even find out he's a criminal fugitive.

AFP - piss poor even by French standards.

All of the above.

[billd766]

Paranoia is really setting in. The spin is not working.

Dangerous times. If you start to see the military presence more prominent on the streets in the near future again then you will know just how twitchy they are.

I haven't seen any military presencewhere I live in Khampaeng Phet province.

[fab4]

I saw the police around in 2014 playing at enforcing the law quite unsuccessfully but at least they turned up.

So where were the police in 2010 when they should have been enforcing the law?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/777522-thai-junta-crafts-bill-to-curb-street-demonstrations/page-2#entry8691486

[gemini81]

Paranoia is really setting in. The spin is not working.

Dangerous times. If you start to see the military presence more prominent on the streets in the near future again then you will know just how twitchy they are.

I haven't seen any military presencewhere I live in Khampaeng Phet province.

Quite considerably more rural than Bangkok there buddy! No wonder...

[kaobang]

so now the hunger games is banned in thailand...

[whybother]

so now the hunger games is banned in thailand...

No.

[kaobang]

so now the hunger games is banned in thailand...

No.

https://time.com/3596616/thailand-prayuth-chan-ocha-cinemas-students-arrested/

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30110280

"A cinema chain in Thailand's capital has cancelled all screenings of the latest The Hunger Games movie"

and if its not a ban,what is it?

Edited November 20, 2014 by kaobang

[whybother]

so now the hunger games is banned in thailand...

No.

https://time.com/3596616/thailand-prayuth-chan-ocha-cinemas-students-arrested/

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30110280

Where does it say it's banned?

[kaobang]

so now the hunger games is banned in thailand...

No.

https://time.com/3596616/thailand-prayuth-chan-ocha-cinemas-students-arrested/

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30110280

Where does it say it's banned?

you know...lets call things with their name

"A cinema chain in Thailand's capital has cancelled all screenings of the latest The Hunger Games movie"

how do u call it?a cinema chain..there are 2 main cinema chains in Bangkok lol that means about 30% of the theaters at least

just heard one of the arrest was at Paragon cineplex.Major cineplex is the largest operator in Thailand

Edited November 20, 2014 by kaobang

[whybother]

you know...lets call things with their name

"A cinema chain in Thailand's capital has cancelled all screenings of the latest The Hunger Games movie"

how do u call it?a cinema chain..there are 2 main cinema chains in Bangkok lol that means about 30% of the theaters at least

just heard one of the arrest was at Paragon cineplex.Major cineplex is the largest operator in Thailand

Firstly, a cinema cancelling their screenings is not "banned". Banning is when someone else (ie the government) stops them from showing the movies.

Secondly, their are 2 major cinema chains - SF Cinemas and Major Cineplex. The "chain" that cancelled their screenings is the Apex cinema chain. It appears that they have 4 theatres.

There was an arrest at Paragon, but they are still showing the movie. That would indicate that the movie is NOT banned, wouldn't it?