Koh Tao murder suspects detained for another 12 days

[Alwyn]

Everyone knows these two guys would be incapable of the murders. Due to the corrupt useless police, they had to find some poor innocent

soul so the police dragged these two in front of the cameras and charged them with the murders. It's the police who should be charged for botching a murder case and wrongfully charging these guys. They should be set free without any charge and paid compensation for all there worry.

I have decided to leave Thailand due to the corruption, the pathetic police that don't even know basic road rules and the shocking Thai driving. It's been a good 8 years but I've had enough.I don't know why they paint pedestrian crossings when no one stops. And that is poor quality paint, only lasts 1 month if that!

Well, well, well. A Svengali hey, a mind reader. How would you or anyone else know that these two guys are incapable of murder? What does a murderer look like, please give me your expert opinion. Dragged in front of cameras, don't think so. Charged them with murder? Don't think so, no charges have been laid in that regard. What is the charge, under Thai law, that you would have the police charged with? How many police would you have charged?

Please enlighten us all what factual evidence you have to back up your spurious allegations relating to the police's actions in this matter. I am in no way saying that the investigation is not without its faults and failings, and as time goes on, it may or may not see action taken against police.

It is probably good that you have left Thailand as what you are alleging and have put into print almost borders on defamation. You must be a real police hater. Oh oops, you have certainly gone off on a tangent. From telling us that everyone knows the men are not capable of such a hideous crime; to police not knowing the road rules and last of all the painting of pedestrian crossings. Please, are you able to show the relevance of the last three rants to the subject post? I doubt it.

To leave for the reasons put forward by you suggests you're not an adult but a child and one who would look for any excuse to justify his actions. When you get to where you are going please enlighten us as to the corruption free country you have moved to. One can only wonder, if you were ever here or if you were, have you left. Why you are so bitter? Had problems have we?

Nearly all sensible expats are fully aware of how things operate and it is far from perfect but I have yet to see anyone display a bitterness such as yours. If you lived here for as long as you allege and are leaving for the reasons you state then it is obvious no matter where you go you will have trouble adapting and fitting in like most of us here have been able to do. Good luck because with your attitude I am sure you are going to need all the luck you can muster.

The thing I dislike about people like you is when you see something you don't like you start with "It's a good job you're going home" and then start with b/s nonsense. Are you the Svengali mind reader you accuse him of? How do you know it's a good thing he's gone? He knows more about this case than you know nothing about him (which is nothing) yet he offers an opinion and you accuse him of rants and tell him it's probably good he's gone as he's a police hater. So, him no opinion allowed, you opinion allowed. There have been a lot stronger rants about the police on TV and stronger rants regarding the koh Toa murders and the state of play from the very start up until now. You haven't made enough posts to criticise all of those posts so maybe you're not aware of all of the facts from the start, or have you been there in person in every interview? You ask in a previous post (shown below) "who are you to tell others to stay out of it". It's a fair question but who are you to tell chiangmaisooty it's a good thing he's gone, he's a police hater and a child not an adult? The main thing I dislike about people like you is based around the last paragraph above. "Nearly all sensible expats are fully aware of how things operate and it is far from perfect but I have yet to see anyone display a bitterness such as yours. If you lived here for as long as you allege and are leaving for the reasons you state then it is obvious no matter where you go you will have trouble adapting and fitting in like most of us here have been able to do. Good luck because with your attitude I am sure you are going to need all the luck you can muster".

Nearly all sensible expats are fully aware of how things happen here? This is nonsense. My brother is an expat and very sensible, I have hundreds of other very sensible expat friends and along with my brother are totally unaware of how things work here. But then my brother is an expat in Canada and my friends are all over the World, not just Thailand. Then this gem from you on the last line

If you lived here for as long as you allege and are leaving for the reasons you state then it is obvious no matter where you go you will have trouble adapting and fitting in like most of us here have been able to do. Good luck because with your attitude I am sure you are going to need all the luck you can muster". Is this another Svengali moment from you? You assume to know what is best for another person based on a paragraph you disagree with. I'm interest to know why it's obvious to you? In fact, no I'm not interested as you seem to have the opinion only you can have an opinion and all expats are the same as you. Here's one that isn't

As you quote below, every person is entitled to an opinion and don't arrogant know all's to butt out, right? I highlighted the last sentence as you're telling somebody else to butt out there too

Everybody (as you say but patently don't advocate) Is entitled to an opinion. If people are basing that opinion on what they've read on news articles (I'm talking mainly about the KT murders) and choose to accept the police have bungled the investigation and failed their duty regarding various locals, that's an opinion, not a fact and it's still an opinion whether you like it or don't like it.

Regards

<quote Saithea01> "Even if I had not read about this case each time a comment was posted, who are you to tell others to stay out of it. I suppose you have been present every time the two men were interviewed and also during every stage of the investigation that has been carried out since day one. If not, how come you are now the expert?

Every person is entitled to an opinion and do not need an arrogant ------- (fill in the space) know it all to tell them to butt out. I do not know one way or another and yes, the investigation leaves much to be desired but if I or any one else wants to comment then we will. But like all critics, unless others posting share you point of view, you don't want to know. A suggestion that maybe you should follow is to follow some of your own advise because what you are writing is only based on hearsay, assumptions and speculation.

Even in the end, if you are proven to be correct, or you are now able to provide direct factual evidence to back up your statement, then do so but until them, if you cannot, then maybe you should follow your own advise and stay out of it like you are suggesting others should."

[smellthecoffee]

Very much simply Torquemada needs a last chat for you to confess boys you both will receive the psychological torture of the plead deal. Comply or die is your choice.

[sambum]

There's a photo with the British ambassador with the coup leader general in today's news.

Surely by now he must have something to say on the subject.

I mean they have condemned the coup sent British police there to observe the murder of two British citizens and he's sitting down talking trade deals and it's all lovey dovey?

Absolutely absurd !

I totally agree that it is absurd for the British ambassador to send British police to observe the murder of two British citizens! (sorry - couldn't resist, and I do hope that this farce ends soon for all concerned)

Why do you think it absurd...?

OK Transam- will try to make it a bit easier for you! (Just concentrate on the underlined words) It is absurd because he didn't "send British police to observe the murder of two British citizens", he sent them to "observe the investigation into the murder of two British citizens" (Actually, the ambassador didn't send them, the UK government did) Better now?

[Willy Eckerslike]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

BANGKOK: -- OUT OF more than 5,000 migrant workers living and working on Koh Tao, around 2,000 live illegally by paying police Bt500 a month to work there.

Those who own or use motorcycles on this tiny island in the Gulf of Thailand, without a rider's licence, pay another Bt500 each month.

Migrants living illegally in Thailand are sometimes issued special cards by police to indicate they pay a monthly fee (ie. bribe). Animal stickers stamped on these cards, carrying their name, photo and name of the Thai employer/s they work for, are changed monthly by the police.

The animal for September was the turtle..............not sure which animal is used this month

Careful - JDinasia could be watching, and he'll be wanting proof of the above!

No worries sambum here it is........

Source: http://www.nationmul...--30244575.html

FYI this was posted before the B2 were arrested,

Edited November 21, 2014 by Willy Eckerslike

[Krenjai]

Unless, of course it's planned to release them after the 84 day period has elapsed - but I don't hold out any hope of that.

Agreed this is unlikely, how can you release them when the case was perfect? Having said that, how can you prosecute them knowing this case will probably fall apart even further? I am sure this case will get even more media attention world wide when it goes to court and I guess that is something they really do not want.

It seems like a stalemate with no way out, nobody can move without losing face! Not prosecuting = loss of face for the many people who produced this perfect case but at the same time, releasing them = also loss of face because of the same reason: The case was perfect!

So what is next? Another 12 days + another 12 days until we reach 84 days and they will be released with a statement that there was not enough evidence to bring this case to court? No! Cannot be, it is again loss of face and it is like admitting to the cover up, framing them and more....

So it will (must) go to court, they will present their case and the verdict will be guilty! Why? Because nobody loses face and that is more important in Thailand than anything else I can tell you. Never ever make a Thai lose face in front of others, because your life is in danger!

Amazing Thailand, The Land of Smiles!

How about this for a face saver...........in the Samui Times today it was reported that..

Quote:

"During the hearing the prosecutor said that he did not oppose the accused requesting bail. Lawyers for the accused have now requested the Myanmar embassy to consider attempting to post bail for the temporary release of the accused. If bail were approved as the two men are non Thai nationals it would perhaps be likely that bail would be set at around 1,000,000 per person".

OK The Face Saver.................

Some mysterious donor pays the 2 mil to get the B2 bail..................they skip bail.............do a runner back to Myanmar with a little help..........the RTP say that they must have been guilty..............Face saved....

Big Boss..........requests their extradition.........Face Saved

B2 Lost in Myanmar cannot be traced................never to be seen again.............

No B2........ no trial..............Prosecutor.........Face saved...............

Yes, that is a face saver! LOL!

[sambum]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

BANGKOK: -- OUT OF more than 5,000 migrant workers living and working on Koh Tao, around 2,000 live illegally by paying police Bt500 a month to work there.

Those who own or use motorcycles on this tiny island in the Gulf of Thailand, without a rider's licence, pay another Bt500 each month.

Migrants living illegally in Thailand are sometimes issued special cards by police to indicate they pay a monthly fee (ie. bribe). Animal stickers stamped on these cards, carrying their name, photo and name of the Thai employer/s they work for, are changed monthly by the police.

The animal for September was the turtle..............not sure which animal is used this month

Careful - JDinasia could be watching, and he'll be wanting proof of the above!

No worries sambum here it is........

Source: http://www.nationmul...--30244575.html

FYI this was posted before the B2 were arrested,

Thai Visa must have given him the day off - he's very quiet!

[MJP]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

BANGKOK: -- OUT OF more than 5,000 migrant workers living and working on Koh Tao, around 2,000 live illegally by paying police Bt500 a month to work there.

Those who own or use motorcycles on this tiny island in the Gulf of Thailand, without a rider's licence, pay another Bt500 each month.

Migrants living illegally in Thailand are sometimes issued special cards by police to indicate they pay a monthly fee (ie. bribe). Animal stickers stamped on these cards, carrying their name, photo and name of the Thai employer/s they work for, are changed monthly by the police.

The animal for September was the turtle..............not sure which animal is used this month

Careful - JDinasia could be watching, and he'll be wanting proof of the above!

No worries sambum here it is........

Source: http://www.nationmul...--30244575.html

FYI this was posted before the B2 were arrested,

Thai Visa must have given him the day off - he's very quiet!

Just to confirm that jdinasia is not associated with Thai Visa forum management.

[Lozza]

If there was a jury trial, and I was a juror, I would have to vote not guilty, although, there is a part of me that thinks they are guilty. A person should be sure of their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. So, what is a reasonable doubt? I would rather see a murderer go free, than convict an innocent person!

Go back and have a look at David's injuries and tell me whether you think they are Hoe injuries.

The autopsy said there was no blood from David on the hoe. But went on to say he was attacked with a blunt instrument.

They then carried on a side show re-enactment using the hoe as the weapon that killed David.

I believe the police think we the general public have not been privy to David's injuries therefore carrying on with this facade.

This one issue of many should show that the entire case is flawed.

They were given directions by the general to close this case asap...maybe watching too many 'the first 48 hours'

Everyone on the Island know's who is responsible and you can be assured it's not who the police have in custody.

[Beetlejuice]

I have this terrible thought that the 2 suspects will be released in the near future and this could conclude that we will never know who the actual murderers are, whether it is the 2 suspects already in custody or anyone else.

Have the British police made any statements yet as to their findings on the Island?

[Si Thea01]

Everyone knows these two guys would be incapable of the murders. Due to the corrupt useless police, they had to find some poor innocent

soul so the police dragged these two in front of the cameras and charged them with the murders. It's the police who should be charged for botching a murder case and wrongfully charging these guys. They should be set free without any charge and paid compensation for all there worry.

I have decided to leave Thailand due to the corruption, the pathetic police that don't even know basic road rules and the shocking Thai driving. It's been a good 8 years but I've had enough.I don't know why they paint pedestrian crossings when no one stops. And that is poor quality paint, only lasts 1 month if that!

Well, well, well. A Svengali hey, a mind reader. How would you or anyone else know that these two guys are incapable of murder? What does a murderer look like, please give me your expert opinion. Dragged in front of cameras, don't think so. Charged them with murder? Don't think so, no charges have been laid in that regard. What is the charge, under Thai law, that you would have the police charged with? How many police would you have charged?

Please enlighten us all what factual evidence you have to back up your spurious allegations relating to the police's actions in this matter. I am in no way saying that the investigation is not without its faults and failings, and as time goes on, it may or may not see action taken against police.

It is probably good that you have left Thailand as what you are alleging and have put into print almost borders on defamation. You must be a real police hater. Oh oops, you have certainly gone off on a tangent. From telling us that everyone knows the men are not capable of such a hideous crime; to police not knowing the road rules and last of all the painting of pedestrian crossings. Please, are you able to show the relevance of the last three rants to the subject post? I doubt it.

To leave for the reasons put forward by you suggests you're not an adult but a child and one who would look for any excuse to justify his actions. When you get to where you are going please enlighten us as to the corruption free country you have moved to. One can only wonder, if you were ever here or if you were, have you left. Why you are so bitter? Had problems have we?

Nearly all sensible expats are fully aware of how things operate and it is far from perfect but I have yet to see anyone display a bitterness such as yours. If you lived here for as long as you allege and are leaving for the reasons you state then it is obvious no matter where you go you will have trouble adapting and fitting in like most of us here have been able to do. Good luck because with your attitude I am sure you are going to need all the luck you can muster.

Fink you should read the case from the beginning chap........

I have, maybe you should follow you own advise.

[Card]

"The defence lawyer, Mr Nakhon Chompoochart, said he would challenge the prosecutor’s demand for further detention of the suspects because he thought further detention was unjustified as the suspects had already been detained for 48 days."

Does Mr Nakhon reckons they should be released then? Murder suspects?

48 days is a sentence to this "lawyer" it would seem.

If the police can't convince the public prosecutor that they have a case after 48 days, then why should they still be detained?

They are only 'murder suspects' because the police say they are. It doesn't prove guilt and they haven't proven guilt.

[Jai Dee]

A post lobbying for funds and link to external website has been removed in accordance with the Forum Rules.

22) Members are forbidden to ask for or accept donations, gifts or commissions from other members, any charities must contact support for approval before joining. before joining to be approved. http://www.thaivisa.com/contact

[northernjohn]

There's a photo with the British ambassador with the coup leader general in today's news.

Surely by now he must have something to say on the subject.

I mean they have condemned the coup sent British police there to observe the murder of two British citizens and he's sitting down talking trade deals and it's all lovey dovey?

Absolutely absurd !

I totally agree that it is absurd for the British ambassador to send British police to observe the murder of two British citizens! (sorry - couldn't resist, and I do hope that this farce ends soon for all concerned)

What I think is it is absurd to condemn them based on news paper reports. I mean let's get real here. Who with any commonsense believes every thing a news paper prints unless that is what they want to believe.

Where is the report from the British Police. If they are so innocent why have the British police not come out and said so?

Do any of you people have any idea of how many murders there are committed every day in the world yet because the press who you people think is a pillar of fact and honesty do not carry on about it you just glibly carry on with your well the news paper said so it has to be true about two murders out of thousands. Believe me any one who knows their arse from hole in the ground knows many of those cases when taken to a court of law not a court of news papers the case gets thrown out. Many the case winds up with a conviction.

Wait for the trial and the report from the British police. Only a fool makes a decision based on news paper reports.

[Dogmatix]

I have this terrible thought that the 2 suspects will be released in the near future and this could conclude that we will never know who the actual murderers are, whether it is the 2 suspects already in custody or anyone else.

Have the British police made any statements yet as to their findings on the Island?

There are only two ways this could end.

1) The 2B are convicted of rape based on Thai police's own DNA match alone without independent corroboration and convicted of murder based on circumstantial evidence, since there is no direct evidence linking them to the murders.

2) The 2B are either released without charge or go to trial and acquitted due to lack of evidence.

Either way the chances of the real rapist/ murderers ever facing trial are nil. Another variation on 2) would be the 2B being 'suicided' or murdered before the trial, or even given bail and allowed to escape to Burma. This variation would been convenient, if there is no likelihood of a conviction. Then it could be assumed that they were guilty and no need to look for the real rapists/ murderers.

But sooner or later those who feel they have the 007 designation will strike again and young, attractive female tourists will be their target.

[MaxLee]

yeah, and after another, another and another 12 days or so they will be discharged and have to leave Thailand....Case closed!

Yep, it smells like another 12 days, after another 12 days, which will be extended to another-nother 24-48 days and so forth...

Keep the innocent Burmese suspects as long, as there is time to save face and Thai honor.....

I have this terrible thought that the 2 suspects will be released in the near future and this could conclude that we will never know who the actual murderers are, whether it is the 2 suspects already in custody or anyone else.

Have the British police made any statements yet as to their findings on the Island?

There are only two ways this could end.

1) The 2B are convicted of rape based on Thai police's own DNA match alone without independent corroboration and convicted of murder based on circumstantial evidence, since there is no direct evidence linking them to the murders.

2) The 2B are either released without charge or go to trial and acquitted due to lack of evidence.

Either way the chances of the real rapist/ murderers ever facing trial are nil. Another variation on 2) would be the 2B being 'suicided' or murdered before the trial, or even given bail and allowed to escape to Burma. This variation would been convenient, if there is no likelihood of a conviction. Then it could be assumed that they were guilty and no need to look for the real rapists/ murderers.

But sooner or later those who feel they have the 007 designation will strike again and young, attractive female tourists will be their target.

I think the last statement, made the most sense,.... you know there are many, many underground henchmen in the Koh Tao Mafia and Policeforce. The influential head man can just order THE HIT against these two, and make it look like some sort of accident, if you know what I mean...

Edited November 22, 2014 by MaxLee

[Si Thea01]

Everyone knows these two guys would be incapable of the murders. Due to the corrupt useless police, they had to find some poor innocent

soul so the police dragged these two in front of the cameras and charged them with the murders. It's the police who should be charged for botching a murder case and wrongfully charging these guys. They should be set free without any charge and paid compensation for all there worry.

I have decided to leave Thailand due to the corruption, the pathetic police that don't even know basic road rules and the shocking Thai driving. It's been a good 8 years but I've had enough. I don't know why they paint pedestrian crossings when no one stops. And that is poor quality paint, only lasts 1 month if that!

Well, well, well. A Svengali hey, a mind reader. How would you or anyone else know that these two guys are incapable of murder? What does a murderer look like, please give me your expert opinion. Dragged in front of cameras, don't think so. Charged them with murder? Don't think so, no charges have been laid in that regard. What is the charge, under Thai law, that you would have the police charged with? How many police would you have charged?

Please enlighten us all what factual evidence you have to back up your spurious allegations relating to the police's actions in this matter. I am in no way saying that the investigation is not without its faults and failings, and as time goes on, it may or may not see action taken against police.

It is probably good that you have left Thailand as what you are alleging and have put into print almost borders on defamation. You must be a real police hater. Oh oops, you have certainly gone off on a tangent. From telling us that everyone knows the men are not capable of such a hideous crime; to police not knowing the road rules and last of all the painting of pedestrian crossings. Please, are you able to show the relevance of the last three rants to the subject post? I doubt it.

To leave for the reasons put forward by you suggests you're not an adult but a child and one who would look for any excuse to justify his actions. When you get to where you are going please enlighten us as to the corruption free country you have moved to. One can only wonder, if you were ever here or if you were, have you left. Why you are so bitter? Had problems have we?

Nearly all sensible expats are fully aware of how things operate and it is far from perfect but I have yet to see anyone display a bitterness such as yours. If you lived here for as long as you allege and are leaving for the reasons you state then it is obvious no matter where you go you will have trouble adapting and fitting in like most of us here have been able to do. Good luck because with your attitude I am sure you are going to need all the luck you can muster.

The thing I dislike about people like you is when you see something you don't like you start with "It's a good job you're going home" and then start with b/s nonsense. Are you the Svengali mind reader you accuse him of? How do you know it's a good thing he's gone? He knows more about this case than you know nothing about him (which is nothing) yet he offers an opinion and you accuse him of rants and tell him it's probably good he's gone as he's a police hater. So, him no opinion allowed, you opinion allowed. There have been a lot stronger rants about the police on TV and stronger rants regarding the koh Toa murders and the state of play from the very start up until now. You haven't made enough posts to criticise all of those posts so maybe you're not aware of all of the facts from the start, or have you been there in person in every interview? You ask in a previous post (shown below) "who are you to tell others to stay out of it". It's a fair question but who are you to tell chiangmaisooty it's a good thing he's gone, he's a police hater and a child not an adult? The main thing I dislike about people like you is based around the last paragraph above. "Nearly all sensible expats are fully aware of how things operate and it is far from perfect but I have yet to see anyone display a bitterness such as yours. If you lived here for as long as you allege and are leaving for the reasons you state then it is obvious no matter where you go you will have trouble adapting and fitting in like most of us here have been able to do. Good luck because with your attitude I am sure you are going to need all the luck you can muster".

in Canada and my friends are all over the World, not just Thailand. Then this gem from you on the last lineNearly all sensible expats are fully aware of how things happen here? This is nonsense. My brother is an expat and very sensible, I have hundreds of other very sensible expat friends and along with my brother are totally unaware of how things work here. But then my brother is an expat

If you lived here for as long as you allege and are leaving for the reasons you state then it is obvious no matter where you go you will have trouble adapting and fitting in like most of us here have been able to do. Good luck because with your attitude I am sure you are going to need all the luck you can muster". Is this another Svengali moment from you? You assume to know what is best for another person based on a paragraph you disagree with. I'm interest to know why it's obvious to you? In fact, no I'm not interested as you seem to have the opinion only you can have an opinion and all expats are the same as you. Here's one that isn't

As you quote below, every person is entitled to an opinion and don't arrogant know all's to butt out, right? I highlighted the last sentence as you're telling somebody else to butt out there too

Everybody (as you say but patently don't advocate) Is entitled to an opinion. If people are basing that opinion on what they've read on news articles (I'm talking mainly about the KT murders) and choose to accept the police have bungled the investigation and failed their duty regarding various locals, that's an opinion, not a fact and it's still an opinion whether you like it or don't like it.

Regards

<quote Saithea01> "Even if I had not read about this case each time a comment was posted, who are you to tell others to stay out of it. I suppose you have been present every time the two men were interviewed and also during every stage of the investigation that has been carried out since day one. If not, how come you are now the expert?

Every person is entitled to an opinion and do not need an arrogant ------- (fill in the space) know it all to tell them to butt out. I do not know one way or another and yes, the investigation leaves much to be desired but if I or any one else wants to comment then we will. But like all critics, unless others posting share you point of view, you don't want to know. A suggestion that maybe you should follow is to follow some of your own advise because what you are writing is only based on hearsay, assumptions and speculation.

Even in the end, if you are proven to be correct, or you are now able to provide direct factual evidence to back up your statement, then do so but until them, if you cannot, then maybe you should follow your own advise and stay out of it like you are suggesting others should."

You can dislike me all you like if it makes your day. Won't be losing any sleep but I am curious as to your definition of "People like you." I suggest you brush up on your reading skills rather then criticising something that is not in the content of my post. He was not told to go home, nor was told that he was not entitled to his opinion. He posted, I posted, that was it and yes I criticised his opinion but that is all it was, criticism.

Can you show me where I stated that I am entitled to my opinion, yet he is not? Also, why are you using quotes from another post to highlight your criticism of me in relation to the post you are currently attacking me over. Again, like in this matter it is clear to me that you do not read or if you do, you do not understand. That poster initially told other posters to butt out if they had no knowledge of the matter, so he was told that unless he had evidence to the contrary, then he should also follow his own advise and stay out of it.

If you criticise, fine but do so without taking out of context what has been written. B/S nonsense? He is not a mind reader and cannot get into the brain of the alleged offenders so would not know what they are capable or incapable of? Then he was asked for his opinion of what a murderer looks like. May be you can tell me? It appears he may not be able to otherwise he would have answered instead of you.

He then made statements that are not factual. Police had to find some innocent soul and "drag then in front of cameras. No one knows if they are guilty or innocent at this time; they were not dragged, they were paraded, a big difference and they have not been charged with "Murder." Left this out of your opinion? No criticism, didn't read or just being selective?

Knows more about the matter then I do. Have never professed to but after 30 years in law enforcement, I have learnt to read, fully, the content of a document, analyse that content and reach a conclusion. I think this allows me to write an unbiased opinion based on what he had to say. To state, unequivocally, that the two men are incapable of murder; that they are innocent, has no purpose in law.

What I referred to as rants relate to his obvious disdain toward police in the murder case, corrupt, useless and pathetic are the quotes. He then goes off on a tangent, totally irrelevant to the original post. His comments not mine; leaving because of corruption; pathetic police not knowing road rules; shocking Thai drivers and the best one: he does not know why they paint pedestrian crossings as no one stops and the paint only lasts a month. So because of all this he's had enough and left.

Give me a break, what in the hell has this to do with the original post relating to the Koh Tao murders. No adult with any common sense would act in this manner and one might suspect there may be more to his leaving then meets the eye. But then again, what would I know. He, according to you, knows more about this case then I. Don't forget, I have never professed to know anything of the case so why have you omitted to comment about the relevancy of these points that he raised.

You want to know why I stated that is good he has left. He clearly stated that he is leaving because of corruption and that he has had enough. Are these the words of someone who is happy being here? Don't think so, therefore, to stay would be bad, to leave would good. He may find another place where there is no corruption and be happy forever. It was not said that it was good he left because he is a police hater. Again changing the context to suit you opinion?

Then we have: Gee, you haven't made enough posts to criticise. Does not making enough posts make one any less able to form an opinion and criticise someone else. Don't think so. It might show you that I have other things to do with my time then post everyday. It is clear that I do not have all the facts and neither does any other TVF poster and, if you care to read the posts, you would see that I am quite open about not having knowledge one way or another of their guilt or innocence.

This is also a forum relating to Thailand and I was referring to expats here, not your brother in Canada or all your friends elsewhere in the world. Are you suggesting that they are the only sensible ones and that the expats residing in Thailand are not and do not have a clue how things work here. Good wording. Bit of an insult and could easily be construed that many of the expats in Thailand aren't sensible and do not know how things work here. It is obvious you do not have a clue to what I was referring to but then again, your the bright one, figure it out.

And if you are ignorant and cannot see that everyone is entitled to their opinion, such as you, and all others who post here, then I suggest you do a refresher course in reading because it is clear that you do not read the total content or maybe not understand and for reasons known only to you take comments out of context and are selective in what you write about. I suggest you read everything precisely and then maybe some one will take you seriously.

One last suggestion. If you must refer to separate posts that I wrote relating to the same incident, please do not mix them up, show them separately. It is very hard to follow what you are on about and by writing in this manner one could easily feel that I have written the entire piece relating to the man from Chiang Mai.

Oh, I almost forgot. Seeing that you are so critical of my posts, are either of the posters that I responded to by any chance related to you or friends of yours. You have certainly gone out of your way to show your disdain toward me if they are aren't and are total strangers. I was just wondering why you elected to respond and neither of them did? Please if you want to criticise get your facts right before you do. If that occurs then I will accept your criticism but not the B/S you have written here.

Regards to you.

[Digitalnomade]

the real murder is still on the loose, if you come to Thailand, young lady, think twice....!!

[Alwyn]

Everyone knows these two guys would be incapable of the murders. Due to the corrupt useless police, they had to find some poor innocent

soul so the police dragged these two in front of the cameras and charged them with the murders. It's the police who should be charged for botching a murder case and wrongfully charging these guys. They should be set free without any charge and paid compensation for all there worry.

I have decided to leave Thailand due to the corruption, the pathetic police that don't even know basic road rules and the shocking Thai driving. It's been a good 8 years but I've had enough. I don't know why they paint pedestrian crossings when no one stops. And that is poor quality paint, only lasts 1 month if that!

Well, well, well. A Svengali hey, a mind reader. How would you or anyone else know that these two guys are incapable of murder? What does a murderer look like, please give me your expert opinion. Dragged in front of cameras, don't think so. Charged them with murder? Don't think so, no charges have been laid in that regard. What is the charge, under Thai law, that you would have the police charged with? How many police would you have charged?

Please enlighten us all what factual evidence you have to back up your spurious allegations relating to the police's actions in this matter. I am in no way saying that the investigation is not without its faults and failings, and as time goes on, it may or may not see action taken against police.

It is probably good that you have left Thailand as what you are alleging and have put into print almost borders on defamation. You must be a real police hater. Oh oops, you have certainly gone off on a tangent. From telling us that everyone knows the men are not capable of such a hideous crime; to police not knowing the road rules and last of all the painting of pedestrian crossings. Please, are you able to show the relevance of the last three rants to the subject post? I doubt it.

To leave for the reasons put forward by you suggests you're not an adult but a child and one who would look for any excuse to justify his actions. When you get to where you are going please enlighten us as to the corruption free country you have moved to. One can only wonder, if you were ever here or if you were, have you left. Why you are so bitter? Had problems have we?

Nearly all sensible expats are fully aware of how things operate and it is far from perfect but I have yet to see anyone display a bitterness such as yours. If you lived here for as long as you allege and are leaving for the reasons you state then it is obvious no matter where you go you will have trouble adapting and fitting in like most of us here have been able to do. Good luck because with your attitude I am sure you are going to need all the luck you can muster.

The thing I dislike about people like you is when you see something you don't like you start with "It's a good job you're going home" and then start with b/s nonsense. Are you the Svengali mind reader you accuse him of? How do you know it's a good thing he's gone? He knows more about this case than you know nothing about him (which is nothing) yet he offers an opinion and you accuse him of rants and tell him it's probably good he's gone as he's a police hater. So, him no opinion allowed, you opinion allowed. There have been a lot stronger rants about the police on TV and stronger rants regarding the koh Toa murders and the state of play from the very start up until now. You haven't made enough posts to criticise all of those posts so maybe you're not aware of all of the facts from the start, or have you been there in person in every interview? You ask in a previous post (shown below) "who are you to tell others to stay out of it". It's a fair question but who are you to tell chiangmaisooty it's a good thing he's gone, he's a police hater and a child not an adult? The main thing I dislike about people like you is based around the last paragraph above. "Nearly all sensible expats are fully aware of how things operate and it is far from perfect but I have yet to see anyone display a bitterness such as yours. If you lived here for as long as you allege and are leaving for the reasons you state then it is obvious no matter where you go you will have trouble adapting and fitting in like most of us here have been able to do. Good luck because with your attitude I am sure you are going to need all the luck you can muster".

in Canada and my friends are all over the World, not just Thailand. Then this gem from you on the last lineNearly all sensible expats are fully aware of how things happen here? This is nonsense. My brother is an expat and very sensible, I have hundreds of other very sensible expat friends and along with my brother are totally unaware of how things work here. But then my brother is an expat

If you lived here for as long as you allege and are leaving for the reasons you state then it is obvious no matter where you go you will have trouble adapting and fitting in like most of us here have been able to do. Good luck because with your attitude I am sure you are going to need all the luck you can muster". Is this another Svengali moment from you? You assume to know what is best for another person based on a paragraph you disagree with. I'm interest to know why it's obvious to you? In fact, no I'm not interested as you seem to have the opinion only you can have an opinion and all expats are the same as you. Here's one that isn't

As you quote below, every person is entitled to an opinion and don't arrogant know all's to butt out, right? I highlighted the last sentence as you're telling somebody else to butt out there too

Everybody (as you say but patently don't advocate) Is entitled to an opinion. If people are basing that opinion on what they've read on news articles (I'm talking mainly about the KT murders) and choose to accept the police have bungled the investigation and failed their duty regarding various locals, that's an opinion, not a fact and it's still an opinion whether you like it or don't like it.

Regards

<quote Saithea01> "Even if I had not read about this case each time a comment was posted, who are you to tell others to stay out of it. I suppose you have been present every time the two men were interviewed and also during every stage of the investigation that has been carried out since day one. If not, how come you are now the expert?

Every person is entitled to an opinion and do not need an arrogant ------- (fill in the space) know it all to tell them to butt out. I do not know one way or another and yes, the investigation leaves much to be desired but if I or any one else wants to comment then we will. But like all critics, unless others posting share you point of view, you don't want to know. A suggestion that maybe you should follow is to follow some of your own advise because what you are writing is only based on hearsay, assumptions and speculation.

Even in the end, if you are proven to be correct, or you are now able to provide direct factual evidence to back up your statement, then do so but until them, if you cannot, then maybe you should follow your own advise and stay out of it like you are suggesting others should."

You can dislike me all you like if it makes your day. Won't be losing any sleep but I am curious as to your definition of "People like you." I suggest you brush up on your reading skills rather then criticising something that is not in the content of my post. He was not told to go home, nor was told that he was not entitled to his opinion. He posted, I posted, that was it and yes I criticised his opinion but that is all it was, criticism.

Can you show me where I stated that I am entitled to my opinion, yet he is not? Also, why are you using quotes from another post to highlight your criticism of me in relation to the post you are currently attacking me over. Again, like in this matter it is clear to me that you do not read or if you do, you do not understand. That poster initially told other posters to butt out if they had no knowledge of the matter, so he was told that unless he had evidence to the contrary, then he should also follow his own advise and stay out of it.

If you criticise, fine but do so without taking out of context what has been written. B/S nonsense? He is not a mind reader and cannot get into the brain of the alleged offenders so would not know what they are capable or incapable of? Then he was asked for his opinion of what a murderer looks like. May be you can tell me? It appears he may not be able to otherwise he would have answered instead of you.

He then made statements that are not factual. Police had to find some innocent soul and "drag then in front of cameras. No one knows if they are guilty or innocent at this time; they were not dragged, they were paraded, a big difference and they have not been charged with "Murder." Left this out of your opinion? No criticism, didn't read or just being selective?

Knows more about the matter then I do. Have never professed to but after 30 years in law enforcement, I have learnt to read, fully, the content of a document, analyse that content and reach a conclusion. I think this allows me to write an unbiased opinion based on what he had to say. To state, unequivocally, that the two men are incapable of murder; that they are innocent, has no purpose in law.

What I referred to as rants relate to his obvious disdain toward police in the murder case, corrupt, useless and pathetic are the quotes. He then goes off on a tangent, totally irrelevant to the original post. His comments not mine; leaving because of corruption; pathetic police not knowing road rules; shocking Thai drivers and the best one: he does not know why they paint pedestrian crossings as no one stops and the paint only lasts a month. So because of all this he's had enough and left.

Give me a break, what in the hell has this to do with the original post relating to the Koh Tao murders. No adult with any common sense would act in this manner and one might suspect there may be more to his leaving then meets the eye. But then again, what would I know. He, according to you, knows more about this case then I. Don't forget, I have never professed to know anything of the case so why have you omitted to comment about the relevancy of these points that he raised.

You want to know why I stated that is good he has left. He clearly stated that he is leaving because of corruption and that he has had enough. Are these the words of someone who is happy being here? Don't think so, therefore, to stay would be bad, to leave would good. He may find another place where there is no corruption and be happy forever. It was not said that it was good he left because he is a police hater. Again changing the context to suit you opinion?

Then we have: Gee, you haven't made enough posts to criticise. Does not making enough posts make one any less able to form an opinion and criticise someone else. Don't think so. It might show you that I have other things to do with my time then post everyday. It is clear that I do not have all the facts and neither does any other TVF poster and, if you care to read the posts, you would see that I am quite open about not having knowledge one way or another of their guilt or innocence.

This is also a forum relating to Thailand and I was referring to expats here, not your brother in Canada or all your friends elsewhere in the world. Are you suggesting that they are the only sensible ones and that the expats residing in Thailand are not and do not have a clue how things work here. Good wording. Bit of an insult and could easily be construed that many of the expats in Thailand aren't sensible and do not know how things work here. It is obvious you do not have a clue to what I was referring to but then again, your the bright one, figure it out.

And if you are ignorant and cannot see that everyone is entitled to their opinion, such as you, and all others who post here, then I suggest you do a refresher course in reading because it is clear that you do not read the total content or maybe not understand and for reasons known only to you take comments out of context and are selective in what you write about. I suggest you read everything precisely and then maybe some one will take you seriously.

One last suggestion. If you must refer to separate posts that I wrote relating to the same incident, please do not mix them up, show them separately. It is very hard to follow what you are on about and by writing in this manner one could easily feel that I have written the entire piece relating to the man from Chiang Mai.

Oh, I almost forgot. Seeing that you are so critical of my posts, are either of the posters that I responded to by any chance related to you or friends of yours. You have certainly gone out of your way to show your disdain toward me if they are aren't and are total strangers. I was just wondering why you elected to respond and neither of them did? Please if you want to criticise get your facts right before you do. If that occurs then I will accept your criticism but not the B/S you have written here.

Regards to you.

I' haven't bothered reading all of your post as I have a life to get on with. I'll just answer your last paranoid question. Neither of the posters I was referring to are not friends of mine (at least I don't think so as, like you, they prefer not to use their own name). So the idea of an election to reply to you is mute. Get my facts right before I criticise you? Sure. You do the same then. How does that sound? The other guy gave an opinion, probably based on what he's read in news articles etc. You called him on it saying he's not got the facts - that's an opinion of yours but you don't know either do you? The opinion he gave might be spot on. You then revert to a child-like version of name calling and suggesting he'd be better out of Thailand etc. Very cool and credible.... I do have a question for you though as you so kindly fronted a question regarding friends to me; Are you friends with or in the employ of the locals in Koh Tao by any chance?

[SLESQ]

Andy Hall, well know human rights advocate https://www.facebook.com/andy.hall.3110, International Affairs Advisor at State Enterprise Workers Relations Confederation of Thailand and Advisor at Migrant Worker Rights Union wrote to me late last night: “<Name>, I would personally assume/understand from discussions with lawyers that bail would only be considered should the Myanmar embassy guarantee in some way that the guys would not run away. Strict conditions would surely be imposed such as detention inside the embassy or something perhaps. Andy”

And in response to my request, and as part of my own due diligence inquiry into the “Fund”, Andy wrote for attribution ad quote: “This is Andy Hall. The fund is being managed properly ad all use of funds will be transparent. Regards, Andy. The TVA managers won’t allow me to post the website to make doations but all who are interested can find it with a quick Google or Face Book search. The website reports before my donation today that the fund stands at US$ 6,255 but Andy updates that amount to over US$ 9,000. “MWRN fundraiser Koh Tao case accused justice fund (website + bank AC donations) now exceeded 300,000 baht. Thanks! <website censored>”

When you find the website, you can see a list of supporters who agree to have their names published: <URL censored>

Please, find the web site and add your name to the growing list, even if only 33 THB (US$ 1.00) donated by a local ATM at the mall, or by credit card or Pay Pal. Please support this most worthwhile cause that can only help the 2 youths and this ailing if not failing State. Good luck to us all. chock-dee

-------------------

Andy Hall just responded to my question, “Can i assure my donors that their donations to the fund will be specifically and exclusively earmarked for the 2 boys? Or must the donors state that when they contribute?”

Andy’s good advice is: “<name>, the fund is for all costs relating to the boys access to justice. It's quite a mix of things we are using the money for now. 100% related to the case though, and their fight for justice. Andy Hall

[Awk]

And in response to my request, and as part of my own due diligence inquiry into the “Fund”, Andy wrote for attribution ad quote: “This is Andy Hall. The fund is being managed properly ad all use of funds will be transparent. Regards, Andy. The TVA managers won’t allow me to post the website to make doations but all who are interested can find it with a quick Google or Face Book search. The website reports before my donation today that the fund stands at US$ 6,255 but Andy updates that amount to over US$ 9,000. “MWRN fundraiser Koh Tao case accused justice fund (website + bank AC donations) now exceeded 300,000 baht. Thanks! <website censored>”

When you find the website, you can see a list of supporters who agree to have their names published: <URL censored>

Please, find the web site and add your name to the growing list, even if only 33 THB (US$ 1.00) donated by a local ATM at the mall, or by credit card or Pay Pal. Please support this most worthwhile cause that can only help the 2 youths and this ailing if not failing State. Good luck to us all. chock-dee

-------------------

Andy Hall just responded to my question, “Can i assure my donors that their donations to the fund will be specifically and exclusively earmarked for the 2 boys? Or must the donors state that when they contribute?”

Andy’s good advice is: “<name>, the fund is for all costs relating to the boys access to justice. It's quite a mix of things we are using the money for now. 100% related to the case though, and their fight for justice. Andy Hall

Searching for this in google brings up the correct page as the first link: justice-koh-tao-murder-case site:youcaring.com

Not sure why the page displays in a non-English language when I use Google Chrome (but in English when using Firefox), but clicking on the button above the

"Share on Facebook" button brings you to a page where you can enter the amount you want to donate. Then click on the button down on the right (still non-English in Google Chrome). Then on the next page, fill in name and other details (will not be shown on the public donator page), and click the button down on the right.

If they should be guilty and judged so, one can hopefully have some faith in that verdict if they have been provided with competent lawyers and assistance, which should be in the interest of everybody. The mentioned fundraiser tries to do that, so hope both those who think they are guilty and those who think they are innocent provide a contribution.

Skip the beers for a couple of evenings and spend the money on something better.

[kaobang]

Democracy and the rule of law must be restored to Thailand

The murders of two Britons have focused international attention on a broken justice system with which Thais are all too familiar

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/21/democracy-rule-law-thailand-murders-britons

[greenchair]

They must be indicated or out before Christmas.

Anything can happen at this point.

Keep up the posts. I think it does help keep this in the media.

Not that jdasia though. He's not helping at all.

[SLESQ]

This morning, MWRN's international affairs advisor Andy Hall, accompanied by HRDF's Mahachai project coordinator Aye Mar Cho and also Heidi Anna, visited Koh Tao case defendants Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo at Koh Samui prison.

This visit was MWRN's first since 12th January during which past time MWRN however continued to organise, supported by MWRN's Justice: Koh Tao case fundraiser, for 3 visits a week to the guys by our Koh Samui network.

Today we met Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo primarily as a humanitarian visit to check their health and welfare, so as to give them a chance to engage outsiders and provide them emotional support. But we could also update them on the ongoing and extensive work of the Koh Tao defence team lawyers in Bangkok and the situations of their families, especially Wei Phyo's father, in Myanmar. We informed Wei Phyo that his father and mother were being provided a lot of support and all operation costs for his sick father, who is now conscious, eating and speaking, were covered. We could also inform both guys of how the Rakhine migrant community in Thailand is currently supporting both of their families with money every month to make up for the temporary loss of a child breadwinner.

After the visit, MWRN was able to deposit some donated books, Facebook support messages and letters for the guys. In addition, we could show the guys all the Facebook letters and donated books during the visit. MWRN also deposited funds into the guys prison bank accounts, one of which was running quite low in cash, and we purchased for them water, mama and canned fish.

During today's visit, both guys looks visibly healthy and strong. Both smiled and laughed throughout. In contrast to the other prisoners around, both wore new matching Lanna style clean and smart looking shirts they said they purchased inside the prison recently for 120 baht each. Wei Phyo had sown on the left side of his new t-shirt a beautiful dove, and when asked about it, said it was a symbol of hope and also joked with smiles that it was too a symbol that he wanted to fly away from his existing situation. Zaw Lin had sown on the left hand side of his shirt only his name.

Today we had a good chance to chat and exchange with both of the accused on their feelings and reflections.

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo have now been incarcerated for almost 150 days in Koh Samui prison and, although they said they remained strong and healthy in body and mind and they said prison is not a big deal for men like them, they both said they still find the incarceration challenging at times and they want to be out of the prison as soon as possible, particularly as both insist that even though they were not perfect sons, they were not involved in any way in the heinous Koh Tao murders. Both said being in prison was the worst experience in their lives.

However, both guys said that because of all the support and regular visits they have received since their initial incarceration from so many different people, and all the letters, drawings, pictures and Facebook print outs they received, as well as Myanmar reading books and learning English language books, stationary and note pads, they had managed to avoid too much depression or stress inside the prison and keep up hope and strength for a future with their families back in Myanmar.

Both Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo said today they would never give up hope of freedom, truth and justice and would indeed fight both for the dignity especially of their parents but also their country. Both said that if not for the support they had received, they would surely have already lost hope in ever returning to see their families and country again. Both insisted they are sure they will soon be free of this existing nightmare when justice is achieved in their case.

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo today talked about poor translators during their arrest and interrogation by police as well as physical abuse as being the main cause of their wrongful detention and prosecution. However, both insisted it was their karma to be in this poor position and they importantly did not want to blame any particular individual for the wrong that has already befallen them.

Both Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo said they longed for the day to be able to tell the truth and speak up by themselves, as for now they have been wrongfully silenced. They said they are dedicated to find justice from this case and their recent challenging experiences.

Both guys said that whilst some people strongly believed in their innocence and some may think they were actually guilty, they were both certain that a greater being knows for certain they were not involved in the killings.

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo said that in jail, they had also met and spoke to people, including many from Myanmar, who were not bad people and heard stories from prisoners who alleged it was actually bad people outside of prison that resulted in them being incarcerated and unable to speak out for truth and justice too. Both guys said they received as much important support from people inside the prison as they did from people outside.

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo both stressed how grateful they both were for all the support and understanding they have in the past and still now received from others.=

[greenchair]

Well that was lovely to read.

All should be reminded pay day is coming up.

And you know what that means ???????

Would love to see them out before end of year.

[greenchair]

I wonder if any of the posters have a plan to go to the trial in July?

[lahgon29]

Was that outburst really necessary?

Man, he was just having a whinge.

Also, he's right about the crossings.

They do fade quickly.

[greenchair]

Was that outburst really necessary?

Man, he was just having a whinge.

Also, he's right about the crossings.

They do fade quickly.

What are you talking about?

The mind boggles.

[loonodingle]

Well a new meeting point perhaps... Our discussions will be hampered if we don't be careful what Is said.

[jdinasia]

They have been indicted. They are facing trial.

The topic here was continued detention prior to indictment.

[FangFerang]

This relentlessly evolving story has a strange effect on me.

Every time I read about this police case, for some crazy reason my mind plays the theme to the Benny Hill show, and I see Benny and his dad zipping around Koh Tao on a motorized tricycle in fast motion, being chased by eleven RTPs stuffed in a brown MiniCooper, hanging out the sides and back like sardines bursting from a squeezed tin.

Kazoo: Uh-reh-reh reh-reh-reh-reh reh-reh reh-reh-reh-reh-reh reh-reh reh/reh reh/reh........