Navy's submarine acquisition plan can wait

[Lite Beer]

EDITORIAL
Navy's submarine acquisition plan can wait
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- While security planners need to look ahead, the current crisis is not the right time to push through a big-budget item

Here we go again. The talk of purchasing submarines has effectively resurfaced now after the plan to purchase two second-hand submarines during the Yingluck Shinawatra government did not materialise.

Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan has given the Navy the green light to conduct a new study of submarine types and prices, according to Navy chief Admiral Kraisorn Chansuwanich.

During the previous administration, the then Defence Minister Air Chief Marshal Sukampol Suwannathat had thrown the ball in the court of the Royal Thai Navy and asked them to explain to the Yingluck Cabinet and the public why the procurement of the submarines was necessary.

For the past two decades or so, the Navy has been trying to procure submarines. The closest it ever came was in 1995 when the government approved the proposal to purchase three submarines for US$800 million. Sweden's Kockums Gotland Class was to be selected. But then came the so-called Tom Yam Kung crisis, and that was that.

A plan to purchase about 300 armoured personnel carriers also met the same fate. The financial crisis took its toll on everybody, including the country's top security brass who were looking to modernise their inventory with new toys but do virtually nothing in terms of downsizing troops to make it leaner and meaner - more professional with superior military capability.

Most of the military budget is going towards dead-end items - pension, retirement, salary, etc. While these are important, none of it really improves the country's defence capability.

More money needs to be spent on training and enhancing their capacity with new equipment. But for that something has to give. And that would mean having fewer 'star' generals.From a military point of view and outlook, one has to look decades ahead and predict what kind of security environment and challenges the country will be facing. Of course, unlike the Cold War era when the "enemies" were clearly defined, in today's world where everybody is supposed to be friends with each other, one has to be more subtle about defining security challenges.

In this respect, the Navy is seeking submarines for several reasons. One is to maintain the balance of power in the region where significant submarine procurement activities have taken place in recent years. Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia have been making moves in this area.

Of course, there is the need to protect the natural resources in the Gulf of Thailand. The development of a new deep-sea port in Dawei in Myanmar is also another point of interest. Security on the Andaman Sea will also have to be beefed up.

But one has to wonder if this is the right time to be talking about more procurement of military hardware when the country is going through a major political crisis that seems to have no end in sight.

The Tom Yam Kung crisis led to the shelving of a number of projects because there was not enough money to spend.

The current crisis may not be financial. Nevertheless, the military can't just look at it from the financial point of view. The feelings of the people also count.

If anything, this move will send a wrong signal to the general Thai public. Thai security planners are currently running the country with little in terms of checks and balances. Do they want to be seen as taking advantage of the situation by going on a spending spree? Or perhaps they don't really care what the people think?

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Navys-submarine-acquisition-plan-can-wait-30248361.html

-- The Nation 2014-11-23

[HeijoshinCool]

I still have my sub from when I was a kid. I'll let it go for half what I paid for it.

.

[chooka]

I still have my sub from when I was a kid. I'll let it go for half what I paid for it.

.

They want an aircraft carrier as well, can you do a 2 for 1

[Thailand]

I still have my sub from when I was a kid. I'll let it go for half what I paid for it.

.

They want an aircraft carrier as well, can you do a 2 for 1

They would need the subs to protect the aircraft carrier whilst developing the space mission to Uranus.

[BSJ]

Once upon a time I used to measure stupidity in 2 or 3 degrees of stupid. Stupid, really stupid and totally stupid. Now I live in Thailand I measure stupidity in minutes and degrees!

[chainarong]

I am for a leaner military , this idea the country needs an over bloated toad as its fighting force tend to loose all meaning when you have conscripts doing jack all and National service interfering with any UNI education aims they may have, this old Idea of service to the country is old hat, the military could cut half it's size and still be over loaded with nothingness, Submarines would be an integrated active part of a lean mean fighting machine but as it stands at present, would be just another over bloated item , as with reforms , the military wont give ground on their present status and for anyone to think that any real effort toward a modern Democratic Thailand is on the cards , dream on brother.

[ratcatcher]

I still have my sub from when I was a kid. I'll let it go for half what I paid for it.

.

They want an aircraft carrier as well, can you do a 2 for 1

They have the carrier but no aircraft, apparently.

[Thailand]

I still have my sub from when I was a kid. I'll let it go for half what I paid for it.

.

They want an aircraft carrier as well, can you do a 2 for 1

They have the carrier but no aircraft, apparently.

They could use it to safely launch the huge surplus of illegal lanterns at sea.

[Hobiecat]

I still have my sub from when I was a kid. I'll let it go for half what I paid for it.

.

They want an aircraft carrier as well, can you do a 2 for 1

They in fact have one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTMS_Chakri_Naruebet

[Commerce]

Who would want to invade Thailand anyway? I can only think of Hugh Hefner, and he aint exactly going to come in underwater.

[MJP]

I still have my sub from when I was a kid. I'll let it go for half what I paid for it.

.

D'oh! You beat me to it!

[worgeordie]

But Thailand has to have Subs, as Malaysia and Singapore have them,

and the Navy needs its toys,if they ever get them,an accident waiting to

happen i would think.

regards Worgeordie

[jaltsc]

"...The talk of purchasing submarines has effectively resurfaced now after the plan to purchase two second-hand submarines ..."

Considering the skills of the technical school graduates, let's just hope they never get their hands on second hand nuclear subs and have to rebuild them .

Edited November 23, 2014 by jaltsc

[RKASA]

If Thailand was really ready for a sub fleet they would know how to build their own. It should be the law for Naval gear - if you can't built it - you can't have it. They built some fine little patrol boats and that is a good start. Maybe they can become the hub of small sub building at the centra of the Asian market. You can make trade schools to provide cheap labour with tons of interns that have no hope of fining a real job once pay is required for their service.

[HeijoshinCool]

I still have my sub from when I was a kid. I'll let it go for half what I paid for it.

.

They want an aircraft carrier as well, can you do a 2 for 1

.

Oh, yeah.

Not only can I do 2 for 1, I can do 2 in 1.

Thainess, yes?

.

[ezzra]

Submarines you want to buy? your ancient helicopters are falling of the sky like autumn leafs

killing dozens of your solders and you want to buy what???

[Somtamnication]

This worries me. We know they can go down, but but but, can they come back up? What if they're eating at the time?

[Langsuan Man]

The submarine procurement is going to happen. This is a military government and the only thing that is guaranteed is that the military is going to take care of itself and to be perfectly honest who is going to stop them ?

Everyone from the top on down has said that this project is irrational, even he who cannot be named, has stated that it is a folly. When they allowed them to fund and open a training "simulator" it was pretty obvious that they were eventually going to get what they wanted, the public be damned

[MisterTee]

Good decision to put the project on hold.

It should be scrapped entirely as totally unnecessary.

[MisterTee]

The submarine procurement is going to happen. This is a military government and the only thing that is guaranteed is that the military is going to take care of itself and to be perfectly honest who is going to stop them ?

Everyone from the top on down has said that this project is irrational, even he who cannot be named, has stated that it is a folly. When they allowed them to fund and open a training "simulator" it was pretty obvious that they were eventually going to get what they wanted, the public be damned

What you say about the military is generally true, but this isn't a done deal... not yet.

Time will tell. Wait and see..

[phutoie2]

I still have my sub from when I was a kid. I'll let it go for half what I paid for it.

.

They want an aircraft carrier as well, can you do a 2 for 1

They have the carrier but no aircraft, apparently.

Same as the Royal Navy.

[FangFerang]

"And that would mean having fewer 'star' generals."

Well, that says it all because Thailand has over 5000 Generals, and no one seems to know how many Admirals there are because the only one listed is the Fleet Admiral........and we all know there is quite probably more than 1000, That is not even counting the Air Force or Special Teams (and I am unsure if the Marines are a department of the Navy). The CIA says there are 35 million Thais in the military service. Breakdowns by ARMY/ AIRFORCE etc. are unavailable at a glance.

That is one Top Heavy structure! Amazing it can even stay upright.

Edited November 23, 2014 by FangFerang

[SoFarAndNear]

none of it really improves the country's defence capability

Defence against who? The japanese? The own citizens?!

[EyesWideOpen]

Funny stuff. As I pointed out in a previous thread, if you take the sub they want to

buy and stick it vertically on the ocean bottom, 50 feet of the sub will be sticking

out in the air.....The King has already stated a sub is a bad idea, am amazed the

military keeps trying to buy one.

How about this. The standard corruption rake off here is about 30 %. So I propose

the generals simply write themselves a check for the 30%, and not actually buy

the sub. This would be a win win, as the government would save 70%, and there

would be no useless sub to embarrass the government in the future like the

aircraft carrier does. Plus this would elimamate the potential of the sub sinking. :-)

Edited November 23, 2014 by EyesWideOpen

[NongKhaiKid]

The submarine procurement is going to happen. This is a military government and the only thing that is guaranteed is that the military is going to take care of itself and to be perfectly honest who is going to stop them ?

Everyone from the top on down has said that this project is irrational, even he who cannot be named, has stated that it is a folly. When they allowed them to fund and open a training "simulator" it was pretty obvious that they were eventually going to get what they wanted, the public be damned

In all my years of involvement with LoS the military have nearly always been given the toys they want as politicians made sure to keep them happy and onside.

Now it's a military govt !

[BoristheBlade]

Maybe a good idea to buy some new helicopters first.

Edited November 23, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[NeverSure]

The US has a treaty to defend Thailand. It also has nuclear subs in the water at all times due to China and NK.

Diego Garcia is right there if needed.

However that doesn't leave room for fat envelopes nor does it take into account that Thailand's new best friend China is sure to overrun defend Thailand.

(Someone said the UK doesn't have subs? They have 11 nuclear powered subs. 4 have ICBMs making the UK a member of "the club of 5" and 7 are hunter-killers.) LINK

[jpeg]

I am for a leaner military , this idea the country needs an over bloated toad as its fighting force tend to loose all meaning when you have conscripts doing jack all and National service interfering with any UNI education aims they may have, this old Idea of service to the country is old hat, the military could cut half it's size and still be over loaded with nothingness, Submarines would be an integrated active part of a lean mean fighting machine but as it stands at present, would be just another over bloated item , as with reforms , the military wont give ground on their present status and for anyone to think that any real effort toward a modern Democratic Thailand is on the cards , dream on brother.

They should follow Costa Rica's example and get rid of the military. What do they do other than keep the inmates in this asylum meek and obedient anyway? Added plus would be one less massive snout out of the trough.

[heybruce]

"And that would mean having fewer 'star' generals."

Well, that says it all because Thailand has over 5000 Generals, and no one seems to know how many Admirals there are because the only one listed is the Fleet Admiral........and we all know there is quite probably more than 1000, That is not even counting the Air Force or Special Teams (and I am unsure if the Marines are a department of the Navy). The CIA says there are 35 million Thais in the military service. Breakdowns by ARMY/ AIRFORCE etc. are unavailable at a glance.

That is one Top Heavy structure! Amazing it can even stay upright.

I think you misread something, 35 million would be about half the Thai population.

It's difficult to get an exact, credible number, but according to at least one news source Thailand has approximately 2000 flag officers (generals and admirals) as opposed to less than a thousand for the US, which has a military three times the size of Thailand.

[chrisrazz]

'Navy's submarine acquisition plan can wait'..... until the sea level rises to the appropriate depth in which the sub is capable of operating.