Condos as an investment proposition?

[BritManToo]

there is a cost associated with the risk, given that we can have a Thai killing fields on our hands in a couple years. And I consider this pretty much a 'jackpot' scenario, again assuming things keep up.

Are you meaning literal killing fields as in the mass graves in Cambodia? Strange thing to come up with when talking about real estate.. I mean if you are going down the disaster path I would think there are a million other scenarios which would happen before killing fields such as earth quakes. If you did have an apartment and a killing field was discovered a few kms away would it really make a difference? I must be missing something.

As far as it not being a good investment, that is yet to be seen, the truth is no one knows the future, with growing chinese middle class and cheap property prices in Chiang Mai, it could be a great time to get in.

I dont subscibe to the because it thailand its not a good investment, thats just craziness. Investment is a risk anywhere, just ask the people who lost their life savings and homes investing in property in the USA in 2008. If you had invested in property in both thailand and usa in 2005, I dare say your return would be better in thailand, ofcourse depends on location, house, etc.. my point being no one knows the future, what is considered strong and safe today could have a financial crises in a year, and what is considered risky and bad value, could be worth double what it is in 5 years.. nature of the game.

You probably would have thought buying a condo in central Beirut, Lebanon was a good idea in 1974.

Winnie is bang on, NOT NOW!

[wisemonkey]

there is a cost associated with the risk, given that we can have a Thai killing fields on our hands in a couple years. And I consider this pretty much a 'jackpot' scenario, again assuming things keep up.

Are you meaning literal killing fields as in the mass graves in Cambodia? Strange thing to come up with when talking about real estate.. I mean if you are going down the disaster path I would think there are a million other scenarios which would happen before killing fields such as earth quakes. If you did have an apartment and a killing field was discovered a few kms away would it really make a difference? I must be missing something.

As far as it not being a good investment, that is yet to be seen, the truth is no one knows the future, with growing chinese middle class and cheap property prices in Chiang Mai, it could be a great time to get in.

I dont subscibe to the because it thailand its not a good investment, thats just craziness. Investment is a risk anywhere, just ask the people who lost their life savings and homes investing in property in the USA in 2008. If you had invested in property in both thailand and usa in 2005, I dare say your return would be better in thailand, ofcourse depends on location, house, etc.. my point being no one knows the future, what is considered strong and safe today could have a financial crises in a year, and what is considered risky and bad value, could be worth double what it is in 5 years.. nature of the game.

You probably would have thought buying a condo in central Beirut, Lebanon was a good idea in 1974.

Winnie is bang on, NOT NOW!

You have a crystal ball do you? I remember all the expert economist calling 2008 to be a huge growth year for equities, and these were experts. The REALITY is that no one knows what the future is going to hold.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

there is a cost associated with the risk, given that we can have a Thai killing fields on our hands in a couple years. And I consider this pretty much a 'jackpot' scenario, again assuming things keep up.

Are you meaning literal killing fields as in the mass graves in Cambodia? Strange thing to come up with when talking about real estate.. I mean if you are going down the disaster path I would think there are a million other scenarios which would happen before killing fields such as earth quakes. If you did have an apartment and a killing field was discovered a few kms away would it really make a difference? I must be missing something.

It's a reference to potentially severe political instability in the not too distant future.

More so than the relatively innocent red and yellow kindergarten field trips we've seen to date, with the worst-case scenario being pretty much Cambodia.

Anyway any more detailed discussion would be off-topic, so the take-away point I'm submitting is that Thailand has a relatively larger risk of severe and prolonged instability than a typical Western European country.

Given that risk, the return on investment should be bigger to make it worth it. This in addition to all the usual economy-related risks; like you said those apply the world over.

Edited November 27, 2014 by WinnieTheKhwai

[beau thai]

The OP will find that there are no experts on property investment, but many people with opinions.

Typically negative opinions about investment return prospects from renters,, and more positive if they are owners.

No surprise really.

But one thing you can be certain of is that if you rent you will own nothing at the at the end of the year. But your capital will be intact- it may not be growing but you will still have it, if it's in cash at a bank, although inflation is likely to be greater than the interest earned.

All you can do, I respectfully suggest, is come to your own conclusions about the likely socio-economic conditions here in the next 2-3 years, and if you feel bullish, look for a bargain that seems worth buying.

[Beng]

^ Can't go wrong with 500K in Nimman.

Any more units there?

A lot !

Are those 20sqm studios ? How old are they ?

[heybruce]

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Location is the most important.
I recommend Nimmanhemin area as it is constantly growing and improving with modern shops and restaurant. You will always find tenants to live there. Another option is near Maya or Central Festival.

My suggestion is to buy cheap studios in old buildings and spend some money to renovate it. New condos are too expensive.

You should think about minimum 10% yearly return.

For example:

I have bought studio room near Nimmanhemin 4 months ago for 500,000 baht in old building. Spent 200,000 baht for total renovation and furniture. I am renting this out for 7000 baht per month now, which gives me about 11% yearly return.

Of course if you get a good deal you can do better than 10%.

"I am renting this out for 7000 baht per month now, which gives me about 11% yearly return."

11% assuming it stays rented, and you don't get the tenant from h*ll who trashes the place. The risk of bad tenants and long periods of vacancy are part of the risk assessment.

That's right. But nicely renovated and furnished condo, with kitchen and separated bedroom, for 7000 baht per month, is not waiting for tenant long in Nimman area. I was waiting only 4 days to have it occupied from the moment when I posted ad.

The risk is always, and if you are afraid or risk, you should stay away of any business.

In you original post you referred to a studio, not a condo with a separate bedroom and kitchen. Did you really find a one bedroom condo with kitchen in the Nimmanhamin area for 500k baht four months ago?

[baywatch82]

In you original post you referred to a studio, not a condo with a separate bedroom and kitchen. Did you really find a one bedroom condo with kitchen in the Nimmanhamin area for 500k baht four months ago?

Yes that's right. I bought 30sq.m. studio and made it to be a 1 bedroom room with separated kitchen and bathroom. There is no living room. Photos attached.

[BritManToo]

I pal of mine bought 2 condos in CM 3 months ago (85m2 and 70m2).

Hasn't managed to rent either, they're still vacant.

Lots of empty condos (and houses) in CM. Very few renters.

Baan Wan Taan near the airport, very popular foreigner enclave, more empty houses for rent than I have seen in the past 5 years.

About 3x or 4x the number of empty houses I have ever seen last week. I was quite shocked.

Most of the tourists are here now are short time and stay in guest houses and hotels.

Edited November 28, 2014 by BritManToo

[baywatch82]

Are those 20sqm studios ? How old are they ?

No, 30sq.m.

I am aware of about 5 available similar units. I'm sure there is more.

One condo is Impress Town condo (location attached). There is few units for sale on the 3rd and 4th floor. Price will be between 500-600k.

This is very old and ugly looking condo from outside, but will be repainted in February or March. They had meeting last week and all people agreed to pay for repainting 5000 baht per room. So this is good investment opportunity, because after repainting, the price will go up.

Another condo is 103 condo on Nimman (don't remember what soi). They are selling studios between 500-600k there.

[evenstevens]

Yes that's right. I bought 30sq.m. studio and made it to be a 1 bedroom room with separated kitchen and bathroom. There is no living room. Photos attached.

thks for the very nice pics

@ around 23 thou a sq metre, your pad comes up trumps in all aspects

baywatch,well done

[heybruce]

In you original post you referred to a studio, not a condo with a separate bedroom and kitchen. Did you really find a one bedroom condo with kitchen in the Nimmanhamin area for 500k baht four months ago?

Yes that's right. I bought 30sq.m. studio and made it to be a 1 bedroom room with separated kitchen and bathroom. There is no living room. Photos attached.

It looks like you did well, but I'm still skeptical about keeping a 30 sq meter condo rented at 7000 baht a month for 12 months a year, or even 10 or 11 months a year. I'm also wary of investing in an old, decrepit building. However I agree that less than one million sunk into an old studio is a better bet than millions invested in one of the new studios in one of the condos springing up like mushrooms around Chiang Mai.

[beau thai]

I pal of mine bought 2 condos in CM 3 months ago (85m2 and 70m2).

Hasn't managed to rent either, they're still vacant.

Lots of empty condos (and houses) in CM. Very few renters.

Baan Wan Taan near the airport, very popular foreigner enclave, more empty houses for rent than I have seen in the past 5 years.

About 3x or 4x the number of empty houses I have ever seen last week. I was quite shocked.

Most of the tourists are here now are short time and stay in guest houses and hotels.

What you say is true of tourists, and I was amazed to see how many are in the Old City just now when I ventured in to meet some overseas friends this week.

But there is a very active renter market- I wonder if your pal with vacant condos has the prices, presentation and marketing right? They are both larger, and therefore probably more expensive, than what I perceive to be the most buoyant market at between 6k and 12k a month for 6/12 month terms.

If he doesnt use an agent, (I am not one!!!) better in my view to pay a 'finders fee' than have voids - but up to him! Hope he gets lucky soon,as its depressing to have long voids on new investments

[JulieM]

FYI - the condo referred to above (103 Condo) is on Soi Sukkasem, which is between Soi's 2 and 4. New York Cafe is at the corner of Nimmanhaemin and Soi Sukkasem.

Are there really studios there going for 500k? I have no idea. It is an old building but it looks perfectly fine.

Right across the street is the new N Condo (not finished yet but getting very, very close) and the cheapest unit there is 4.5 million. I don't know the sq. meters of the units (they are all about the same size I have been told) but they are larger than a studio and a bit smaller than a genuine 1 bedroom. I've seen the display room. It's nice, but 4.5 million for a glorified bedroom is a bit much for me.

[BritManToo]

I pal of mine bought 2 condos in CM 3 months ago (85m2 and 70m2).

Hasn't managed to rent either, they're still vacant.

Lots of empty condos (and houses) in CM. Very few renters.

Baan Wan Taan near the airport, very popular foreigner enclave, more empty houses for rent than I have seen in the past 5 years.

About 3x or 4x the number of empty houses I have ever seen last week. I was quite shocked.

Most of the tourists are here now are short time and stay in guest houses and hotels.

What you say is true of tourists, and I was amazed to see how many are in the Old City just now when I ventured in to meet some overseas friends this week.

But there is a very active renter market- I wonder if your pal with vacant condos has the prices, presentation and marketing right? They are both larger, and therefore probably more expensive, than what I perceive to be the most buoyant market at between 6k and 12k a month for 6/12 month terms.

If he doesnt use an agent, (I am not one!!!) better in my view to pay a 'finders fee' than have voids - but up to him! Hope he gets lucky soon,as its depressing to have long voids on new investments

He wants 6-7K for the small one (two rooms), essentially 2 condos with a connecting door in the wall.

And 10-12k for the larger one, Large bedroom, large living room, separate kitchen (2 condos joined together by original developer in a corner).

No viewers!

[baywatch82]

I pal of mine bought 2 condos in CM 3 months ago (85m2 and 70m2).

Hasn't managed to rent either, they're still vacant.

I just rented out 80sqm condo in nimman area for 20k per month 1 year contract. No agency involved and not much advertising. You can not go wrong with good location.

[kingalfred]

Please let me know where i can rent a 20k condo 80sq metres in bangkok. Not too far from bts or mrt

[heybruce]

I pal of mine bought 2 condos in CM 3 months ago (85m2 and 70m2).

Hasn't managed to rent either, they're still vacant.

Lots of empty condos (and houses) in CM. Very few renters.

Baan Wan Taan near the airport, very popular foreigner enclave, more empty houses for rent than I have seen in the past 5 years.

About 3x or 4x the number of empty houses I have ever seen last week. I was quite shocked.

Most of the tourists are here now are short time and stay in guest houses and hotels.

What you say is true of tourists, and I was amazed to see how many are in the Old City just now when I ventured in to meet some overseas friends this week.

But there is a very active renter market- I wonder if your pal with vacant condos has the prices, presentation and marketing right? They are both larger, and therefore probably more expensive, than what I perceive to be the most buoyant market at between 6k and 12k a month for 6/12 month terms.

If he doesnt use an agent, (I am not one!!!) better in my view to pay a 'finders fee' than have voids - but up to him! Hope he gets lucky soon,as its depressing to have long voids on new investments

He wants 6-7K for the small one (two rooms), essentially 2 condos with a connecting door in the wall.

And 10-12k for the larger one, Large bedroom, large living room, separate kitchen (2 condos joined together by original developer in a corner).

No viewers!

Location?

[BritManToo]

Location?

Pink condo half way between Tesco superhighway and the river.

[heybruce]

Location?

Pink condo half way between Tesco superhighway and the river.

That probably has something to do with it. Most expats who want to live in a condo want one in walking distance of their preferred recreational activities.

[NigelKennedy]

I suppose everyone has their favorite condo for investment and mine is JC Hill Place , close to canal road, huey kaew road, Maya etc. Old building good management., new lifts coming, Will be painted and huge pool coming...good location and can be bought for 800k will and many rented for 8k...not everybodies cup of tea..but is mine.

[beau thai]

I suppose everyone has their favorite condo for investment and mine is JC Hill Place , close to canal road, huey kaew road, Maya etc. Old building good management., new lifts coming, Will be painted and huge pool coming...good location and can be bought for 800k will and many rented for 8k...not everybodies cup of tea..but is mine.

You surprise me. I had a good look around there (and at some units) a few months back and it seemed to me a depressing, edgy place, surrounded by other close-by 3rd/4th rate buildings. Maybe I didnt spend enough time there but there didnt seem to be anything in strolling distance, so transport essential.

Bit like PP condo but higher cost in my view, but I think you know better. I just couldnt imagine wanting to live there at the rents asked.

Interesting that a 'huge pool' is coming. The condo has cash then, but will doubtless increase monthly fees, and surely it will use precious parking space?

[NigelKennedy]

Hello Beau...agree not the prettiest but side units have good mountain view.Pool is existing above car park needs renovating..talk was/is may be done privately with privacy roof and planting with an entrance fee...think many places easy to walk to...zoo road..The harbour..Maya etc..Nimman area...think PP is way out from any action.

[beau thai]

Hello Beau...agree not the prettiest but side units have good mountain view.Pool is existing above car park needs renovating..talk was/is may be done privately with privacy roof and planting with an entrance fee...think many places easy to walk to...zoo road..The harbour..Maya etc..Nimman area...think PP is way out from any action.

Ok Thanks - didnt realise there was an existing defunct pool. Hope they fix it faster than all the promises at SR condo!!!

Maya is just over 1km walk -maybe I am lazy but 2km out and back is more than enough in the heat!

From memory the units I looked at were twice the cost of PP and wouldnt make twice the rental. but I agree, PP is a bit out and transport is vital there. And would be for me at JC too...

[NigelKennedy]

Agree, I would not live there but seem easy to rent , I see PP selling at 650k now...asking 690k.

[beau thai]

Agree, I would not live there but seem easy to rent , I see PP selling at 650k now...asking 690k.

interesting- thanks very much.

[baywatch82]

Interesting condo - Chiangmai Condominium - Nimmanhemin Soi 11.

Old building quite ugly looking from outside.

Excellent location and neighbourhood - top restaurants and bars, new and renovated townhouses, Salad Concept, Daily, Beer Republic on the same soi.

Quite big undercovered car park.

I just bought 2 connected rooms - 107 and 108 (2 chanote titles) for 900,000 baht total. Total rooms area 49 sq.m.

I am assuming 300,000 baht for total renovation and furnishing (including good soundproof windows).

Total cost for very nicely renovated 1 bedroom, 1 bathroom, 1 living room apartment in top location will be 1.2 mln baht.

That equals 25,000 baht per sq.m. New developments in the Nimman area minimum 80,000 sq.m.

I am assuming to rent it out for about 10,000-12,000 baht per month with no problem (fully renovated and furnished). That will give me over 10% yearly investment return.

Can this go any wrong ?

I am writing this because I know there is couple of rooms available in that building if anyone is interested. I would love to see more foreigner ownership in that building.

[bangmai]

That's a pretty good deal.....and one of the better sois......saw a gal selling 2 rooms there on Facespook for 1.5 million a month ago.

[baywatch82]

That's a pretty good deal.....and one of the better sois......saw a gal selling 2 rooms there on Facespook for 1.5 million a month ago.

Yeah I inspected to see that one and actually she would accept 1.35 mln. It is slighty bigger (52sq.m.) and with outside terrace. Not bad deal also.

[bangmai]

I actually like that side of Nimman better....more Thainess. I'm just about convinced that a lot of stuff right on Nimman is exclusively for tourists, including the overpriced pharmacies. The lady with the soap store told me she is paying 20K per month...that's a lot of soap. If Dodgey Monster is paying the same; I really can't see them lasting that long.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Interesting condo - Chiangmai Condominium - Nimmanhemin Soi 11.

Old building quite ugly looking from outside.

Excellent location and neighbourhood - top restaurants and bars, new and renovated townhouses, Salad Concept, Daily, Beer Republic on the same soi.

Quite big undercovered car park.

I just bought 2 connected rooms - 107 and 108 (2 chanote titles) for 900,000 baht total. Total rooms area 49 sq.m.

I am assuming 300,000 baht for total renovation and furnishing (including good soundproof windows).

Total cost for very nicely renovated 1 bedroom, 1 bathroom, 1 living room apartment in top location will be 1.2 mln baht.

That equals 25,000 baht per sq.m. New developments in the Nimman area minimum 80,000 sq.m.

I am assuming to rent it out for about 10,000-12,000 baht per month with no problem (fully renovated and furnished). That will give me over 10% yearly investment return.

Can this go any wrong ?

Only if there are no tenants.

Which is entirely possible.