Will Pattaya Be Bereft Of Russians?

[KittenKong]

I presume that many Russians who might have bought a condo will be having second thoughts if the price is double. Expect to see many develoments unfinished.

Those who completed purchases last year when the Ruble was more or less at parity with the Baht will be very pleased with themselves now, I imagine.

Hope they don't have a bank loan in Thailand. My wife and I have a house loan from a Thai bank and I help with the payments. The currency that my money is paid in is very important.

I would imagine most people get a mortgage from a bank for living quarters. Except for the walking ATMs.

I dont think that many foreigners buying in Thailand would need a loan to do so. Especially people coming from a country that many of the residents are keen to get cash/tainted money out of.

[prk888]

As at around 11.00a.m. today 3rd Dec for the first time in some while both MAKRO & Tesco heaving with Russians and families

[Anthony5]

one the big downshot is that your assumption is wrong. Russian travel agencies have secured the same prices in Rubles with Pattaya hotels, the charter airlines still charge the same amount of Rubles for airfare and the only loss for Russian visitors is caused by more expensive sundry expenses (which most of them can still afford).

summary: your obvious wishful thinking won't become reality

Is aviation gas available for Rubles in Thailand? Is Pattaya using Rubles now instead of baht for payment?

You sure you don't want to change your statement?

-yes, aviation jet fuel is available in Russia (the biggest crude producer on this planet) for Rubles,

-yes, Pattaya money changers will change Rubles for Baht and hotels grant (as stated) reduced prices to Russian travel agencies because it is more profitable for them to sell rooms for $15/night then asking $25/night and have no occupants.

-my statement stays because i discussed only a couple of weeks ago the situation with Russian friends who run a travel agency.

- I get such a feeling that the planes will have to refill in Thailand for their return trip, which is charged in Thai Baht or more likely in US$, but for sure not in Rubles.

Also if they charge the passengers still the same Rubles for their flight, I guess they are digging a very deep hole for themselves.

- I see a lot of moneychangers in Pattaya that have a sign NO RUBLES, i bet that doesn't mean they ran out of Rubles.

[balo]

Well, maybe we will see the result of this next year, so far Russians are coming in big numbers to Pattaya now, especially Jomtien is packed with Russians and we just started the high season.

[Jingthing]

Well, maybe we will see the result of this next year, so far Russians are coming in big numbers to Pattaya now, especially Jomtien is packed with Russians and we just started the high season.

It is not nearly as Russkie-packed as this time LAST year, comrade.

[balo]

Well, maybe we will see the result of this next year, so far Russians are coming in big numbers to Pattaya now, especially Jomtien is packed with Russians and we just started the high season.

It is not nearly as Russkie-packed as this time LAST year, comrade.

Well it feels like it if you walk between soi 5 and all the way up Jomtien beach rd.

[thaibeachlovers]

I'll be happy if the prices on Naklua beach return to "normal". I was there a month ago and ridiculously high.

[azaazo9]

. It has been refreshing to see families (including blond hair, blue eye attractive Russian women) visit Pattaya--not just an overweight, over 60 year old farang coming to Pattaya only to pick up a Thai bar girl.

That's true!

I personally don't have a problem with Russian tourists..

[thailiketoo]

I presume that many Russians who might have bought a condo will be having second thoughts if the price is double. Expect to see many develoments unfinished.

Those who completed purchases last year when the Ruble was more or less at parity with the Baht will be very pleased with themselves now, I imagine.

Hope they don't have a bank loan in Thailand. My wife and I have a house loan from a Thai bank and I help with the payments. The currency that my money is paid in is very important.

I would imagine most people get a mortgage from a bank for living quarters. Except for the walking ATMs.

I dont think that many foreigners buying in Thailand would need a loan to do so. Especially people coming from a country that many of the residents are keen to get cash/tainted money out of.

Foreigners paying cash for homes are first class silly. A condo for cash is silly second class . A mortgage is much more like renting with a prize after 20 or 30 years. The other stuff that you don't know anything about we can't talk about anyway.

[KittenKong]

Hope they don't have a bank loan in Thailand. My wife and I have a house loan from a Thai bank and I help with the payments. The currency that my money is paid in is very important.

I would imagine most people get a mortgage from a bank for living quarters. Except for the walking ATMs.

I dont think that many foreigners buying in Thailand would need a loan to do so. Especially people coming from a country that many of the residents are keen to get cash/tainted money out of.

Foreigners paying cash for homes are first class silly. A condo for cash is silly second class . A mortgage is much more like renting with a prize after 20 or 30 years. The other stuff that you don't know anything about we can't talk about anyway.

Maybe you just dont know anyone who has any cash to their name?

No one I know has a mortgage on their condo here. But I do know a lot of people who have cash in the bank and used a small part of it to buy their condo, as I did myself.

As for the Russian condo owners, a lot of them will have bought with cash that they wanted to get out of Russia, for whatever reason.

[Jingthing]

Most foreigners who buy condos here are cash sales. Duh!

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Naam]

Maybe you just dont know anyone who has any cash to their name?

[thailiketoo]

Smart people in Thailand including Russians lease instead of buy. There are better and safer investments for cash than real estate in Thailand especially for a Russian with the fluctuations in the Ruble.

Thousands of Russians stranded abroad, as fifth tour operator goes bankrupt

It is the fifth Russian tour operator to go bankrupt this summer. Five hundred IntAer clients are now stranded abroad mostly in Greece, and another 1,300 booked to travel will not be able to do so.

When the Labirint travel company collapsed on Saturday leaving over 27,000 Russian tourists abroad, it also cited a “negative political and economic situation” as a reason for its failure.

http://rt.com/business/178092-thousands-russians-stranded-abroad/

Myself I wouldn't pay any money or give any credence to a Russian Travel agency right now.

I have heard that there are some people because of credit problems can't get loans in Thailand but a good indicator of financial stability is a credit score and the ability to get money from a bank.

I think most people would agree, especially in Thailand using someone else's money is preferable to using one's own.

Edited December 3, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Anthony5]

Hope they don't have a bank loan in Thailand. My wife and I have a house loan from a Thai bank and I help with the payments. The currency that my money is paid in is very important.

I would imagine most people get a mortgage from a bank for living quarters. Except for the walking ATMs.

I dont think that many foreigners buying in Thailand would need a loan to do so. Especially people coming from a country that many of the residents are keen to get cash/tainted money out of.

Foreigners paying cash for homes are first class silly. A condo for cash is silly second class . A mortgage is much more like renting with a prize after 20 or 30 years. The other stuff that you don't know anything about we can't talk about anyway.

Maybe you just dont know anyone who has any cash to their name?

No one I know has a mortgage on their condo here. But I do know a lot of people who have cash in the bank and used a small part of it to buy their condo, as I did myself.

As for the Russian condo owners, a lot of them will have bought with cash that they wanted to get out of Russia, for whatever reason.

I know from people involved that before the crisis in Russia the condo developers sold more than 100 condo's a day to the Russians on the Pegas tours and alike.

You think they came all over on a budget tour with their pockets full of cash?

[NeverSure]

Smart people in Thailand including Russians lease instead of buy. There are better and safer investments for cash than real estate in Thailand especially for a Russian with the fluctuations in the Ruble.

Thousands of Russians stranded abroad, as fifth tour operator goes bankrupt

It is the fifth Russian tour operator to go bankrupt this summer. Five hundred IntAer clients are now stranded abroad mostly in Greece, and another 1,300 booked to travel will not be able to do so.

When the Labirint travel company collapsed on Saturday leaving over 27,000 Russian tourists abroad, it also cited a “negative political and economic situation” as a reason for its failure.

http://rt.com/business/178092-thousands-russians-stranded-abroad/

Myself I wouldn't pay any money or give any credence to a Russian Travel agency right now.

I have heard that there are some people because of credit problems can't get loans in Thailand but a good indicator of financial stability is a credit score and the ability to get money from a bank.

I think most people would agree, especially in Thailand using someone else's money is preferable to using one's own.

There are two ways to look at this. The reason that Japan started building cars in different countries including the US where wages are high compared to, say Thailand, was to protect itself from currency fluctuations. It had been burned. Now it tries to build in the currency it's going to sell in, bypassing currency risks.

While I see the point you are making, I won't follow it because I can't foresee currency values. I'm not going borrow a lot of baht to buy a condo when I have no idea what the baht will cost me in USD in a few years.

If I wanted to buy a condo in Thailand and didn't have the cash liquid, I would borrow against my brokerage account in the US, convert to baht and pay cash for the condo. That's actually borrowing my own money in my own currency.

That said, I don't borrow money to buy anything beyond my monthly Visa bill (for convenience) but that's another topic.

Edit: Imagine the plight of any Russians who might have bought condos and now have to pay in baht, converting from Rubles. They would be screwed.

Edited December 3, 2014 by NeverSure

[KittenKong]

Smart people in Thailand including Russians lease instead of buy. There are better and safer investments for cash than real estate in Thailand especially for a Russian with the fluctuations in the Ruble.

Leasing is uncommon in Pattaya, though it seems to be more common in Phuket. I'm not sure why. But even so I dont see anything very smart about buying a 30-year lease, which is the longest type that is legally available in Thailand.

Russians (and the Chinese) have put lots of money into property elsewhere, but a couple of million Baht doesnt go very far in places like London and so one can see the attraction for them of Thai condos.

[CarlTyson]

Foreigners paying cash for homes are first class silly. A condo for cash is silly second class . A mortgage is much more like renting with a prize after 20 or 30 years. The other stuff that you don't know anything about we can't talk about anyway.

Foreigners in Thailand can buy a home & get a mortgage? I didn't know that.

[Naam]

thailiketoo:

Smart people in Thailand including Russians lease instead of buy.

thailiketoo:

My wife and I have a house loan from a Thai bank and I help with the payments.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Naam

[KittenKong]

Maybe you just dont know anyone who has any cash to their name?

No one I know has a mortgage on their condo here. But I do know a lot of people who have cash in the bank and used a small part of it to buy their condo, as I did myself.

As for the Russian condo owners, a lot of them will have bought with cash that they wanted to get out of Russia, for whatever reason.

I know from people involved that before the crisis in Russia the condo developers sold more than 100 condo's a day to the Russians on the Pegas tours and alike.

You think they came all over on a budget tour with their pockets full of cash?

I was using the word cash figuratively, in the sense of "not credit". Though I dare say that some Russians did indeed come with banknotes in their luggage and arranged with some friendly forex merchant or bank manager to export it and import it again, to get the FET form. Or just bought in company name.

Also I was thinking about re-sales. Off-plan sales such as the ones you describe are generally made for very little down anyway, with the balance payable in stages over several years. So to sign a contract you may only need a few thousand Baht. Those who signed a contract when 1 Ruble was worth 1 Baht may now be wondering whether they would be better off by letting the contract lapse and losing what they have paid.

[KittenKong]

Foreigners paying cash for homes are first class silly. A condo for cash is silly second class . A mortgage is much more like renting with a prize after 20 or 30 years. The other stuff that you don't know anything about we can't talk about anyway.

Foreigners in Thailand can buy a home & get a mortgage? I didn't know that.

I see some condo advertising posters around Pattaya reading "foreigner finance available", but I doubt that the interest rates are very attractive. And, as mentioned, to buy like that would involve huge exposure to unknown future currency movements. I dont think it's common practice.

[Langsuan Man]

Seriously, how in the world could anyone buy in the farang quota if they borrowed the money in Thailand, the law specifically states that the funds must come from overseas, so that is the reason 99% of foreigners buy with "cash"

[KittenKong]

Seriously, how in the world could anyone buy in the farang quota if they borrowed the money in Thailand, the law specifically states that the funds must come from overseas, so that is the reason 99% of foreigners buy with "cash"

Presumably those getting credit here would be buying via a company structure anyway? It is feasible to raise a loan abroad and use this to finance a farang-name condo purchase though, as mentioned.

[doggie888888]

Foreigners paying cash for homes are first class silly. A condo for cash is silly second class . A mortgage is much more like renting with a prize after 20 or 30 years. The other stuff that you don't know anything about we can't talk about anyway.

Foreigners in Thailand can buy a home & get a mortgage? I didn't know that.

I see some condo advertising posters around Pattaya reading "foreigner finance available", but I doubt that the interest rates are very attractive. And, as mentioned, to buy like that would involve huge exposure to unknown future currency movements. I dont think it's common practice.

The Big plus of fewer Russians is that some of these conmen who masquerade as "developers" will have their income steam disrupted and hopefully the more dodgy ones will go under first. Good riddance.

[murga]

Would have been much more impressed if you said the ruble-baht prices were all locked in via a complex set of financial hedging wizardry and derivatives, rather than the old I heard it from a “friend” routine…

Now, not to get all Pecksniffian on you, but avgas does exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_fuel

Avgas (aviation gasoline) is used in spark-ignited internal-combustion engines in aircraft. Its formulation is distinct from mogas (motor gasoline) used in cars. Avgas is formulated for stability, safety, and predictable performance under a wide range of environments, and is typically used in aircraft that use reciprocating or Wankel engines.

Jet fuel is a clear to straw-colored fuel, based on either an unleaded kerosene (Jet A-1), or a naphtha-kerosene blend (Jet . It is similar to diesel fuel, and can be used in either compression ignition engines or turbine engines.

……..be careful what you wish for!

one the big downshot is that your assumption is wrong. Russian travel agencies have secured the same prices in Rubles with Pattaya hotels, the charter airlines still charge the same amount of Rubles for airfare and the only loss for Russian visitors is caused by more expensive sundry expenses (which most of them can still afford).

summary: your obvious wishful thinking won't become reality

Is aviation gas available for Rubles in Thailand? Is Pattaya using Rubles now instead of baht for payment?

You sure you don't want to change your statement?

-yes, aviation jet fuel is available in Russia (the biggest crude producer on this planet) for Rubles,

-yes, Pattaya money changers will change Rubles for Baht and hotels grant (as stated) reduced prices to Russian travel agencies because it is more profitable for them to sell rooms for $15/night then asking $25/night and have no occupants.

-my statement stays because i discussed only a couple of weeks ago the situation with Russian friends who run a travel agency.

[thailiketoo]

Seriously, how in the world could anyone buy in the farang quota if they borrowed the money in Thailand, the law specifically states that the funds must come from overseas, so that is the reason 99% of foreigners buy with "cash"

I would think one would have their Thai partner buy whatever with a mortgage and then lease from the partner.

In the case of Russians I doubt this is much of a factor as I don't think they associate with Thai people very much.

From what I've seen not many Russian people live in Thailand full time and I can't see why they would want to buy.

They can open a bank account and get a fixed amount of appreciation if they want to put money someplace. Why risk real estate?

I would imagine the current failure of travel agencies in Russia to be more of a negative factor in Pattaya being slow than the Ruble alone.

If you add up all three A. Financial incentives to vacation in Russia and B. Ruble plummeting and C. Failure of Travel agencies it simply adds up to less Russian tourism to Thailand.

[thailiketoo]

Speaking at the PBTA’s Oct. 29 meeting at the Grand Bella Hotel, association President Sinchai Wattanasartsathorn said the biggest hit has come from the marked decline in tourists from China and Russia.

As for Russians, domestic problems at home are keeping many from traveling, a slowdown expected to last into next year. The ruble has been crushed by sanctions leveled against Russia for its incursion into Ukraine. Russians, as a result, don’t have the economic power to travel as they did in recent years. - See more at: http://www.pattayamail.com/business/tourism-down-20-in-2014-high-season-looking-disappointing-pbta-says-42565#sthash.FdTzeN0B.dpuf

Edited December 4, 2014 by thailiketoo

[KittenKong]

I would think one would have their Thai partner buy whatever with a mortgage and then lease from the partner.

In the case of Russians I doubt this is much of a factor as I don't think they associate with Thai people very much.

It's not just Russians who may not have a Thai partner. I dont and many of my condo-owning friends dont either.

From what I've seen not many Russian people live in Thailand full time and I can't see why they would want to buy.

They can open a bank account and get a fixed amount of appreciation if they want to put money someplace. Why risk real estate?

My building has many units owned by Russians, and many other Pattaya/Jomtien buildings do also.

I suppose that an attraction of a Thai condo over a bank account is that you can live in it permanently (and there are plenty of Russians working here - or at least there used to be), or use it for your holiday accommodation, or rent it out and possibly even make a capital gain from it. These attractions are heavily plugged by developers here, unlike bank accounts, and marketing does work on the unwary.

[thailiketoo]

I would think one would have their Thai partner buy whatever with a mortgage and then lease from the partner.

In the case of Russians I doubt this is much of a factor as I don't think they associate with Thai people very much.

It's not just Russians who may not have a Thai partner. I dont and many of my condo-owning friends dont either.

From what I've seen not many Russian people live in Thailand full time and I can't see why they would want to buy.

They can open a bank account and get a fixed amount of appreciation if they want to put money someplace. Why risk real estate?

My building has many units owned by Russians, and many other Pattaya/Jomtien buildings do also.

I suppose that an attraction of a Thai condo over a bank account is that you can live in it permanently (and there are plenty of Russians working here - or at least there used to be), or use it for your holiday accommodation, or rent it out and possibly even make a capital gain from it. These attractions are heavily plugged by developers here, unlike bank accounts, and marketing does work on the unwary.

I of course understand what you are saying. For my part I want assets that are easily liquidated and I've seen too many condo's that are not. I think the Russian owners are now finding out the same thing that the Western owners found out when the dollar went from 45 to 29.

[thaibeachlovers]

I would think one would have their Thai partner buy whatever with a mortgage and then lease from the partner.

In the case of Russians I doubt this is much of a factor as I don't think they associate with Thai people very much.

It's not just Russians who may not have a Thai partner. I dont and many of my condo-owning friends dont either.

From what I've seen not many Russian people live in Thailand full time and I can't see why they would want to buy.

They can open a bank account and get a fixed amount of appreciation if they want to put money someplace. Why risk real estate?

My building has many units owned by Russians, and many other Pattaya/Jomtien buildings do also.

I suppose that an attraction of a Thai condo over a bank account is that you can live in it permanently (and there are plenty of Russians working here - or at least there used to be), or use it for your holiday accommodation, or rent it out and possibly even make a capital gain from it. These attractions are heavily plugged by developers here, unlike bank accounts, and marketing does work on the unwary.

I of course understand what you are saying. For my part I want assets that are easily liquidated and I've seen too many condo's that are not. I think the Russian owners are now finding out the same thing that the Western owners found out when the dollar went from 45 to 29.

the dollar went from 45 to 29.

People just never learn from history .

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

For the first time in months, I went to Central Festivaskaya Mall. Heard Russian everywhere and saw Russians everywhere. Was in JayMart. Only heard Russians speaking. Felt like I was the only farang in the mall. It was blonde hair as far as the eye could see. But it is that time of year when the winds and snows come a howling in their homeland.