konisaan Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Is there an existing thread that deals with what it means to 'work' in Thailand? Perhaps with some examples of what is defined as work and what is not. If not, I'll post my questions in the legal section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trembly Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 According to Thai labor law, the definition of work is "exerting effort" and "employing knowledge", "whether or not for wages or other benefits" . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RolandRat Posted December 2, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2014 It means whatever the Official wants it to mean on the day at that moment in time, anything else is total guesswork. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telstrareg Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 It means whatever the Official wants it to mean on the day at that moment in time, anything else is total guesswork. Yes' that's always a variable in Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Here you go: http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1329 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwdrwdrwd Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 According to Thai labor law, the definition of work is "exerting effort" and "employing knowledge", "whether or not for wages or other benefits" . . . Is this part of the new drive to attract quality Zombie tourists? Since it basically says being anything other than brain dead requires a Work Permit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATF Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Another digital pikey thread. If it involves getting paid it's work. If you don't get paid it's voluntary work which also requires a work permit unless you are a volunteer police officer. Only exceptions are stock market trading or being a non working director/shareholder of a company. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwdrwdrwd Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Only exceptions are stock market trading or being a non working director/shareholder of a company. Never saw that law, can you show us it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtoad Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Quite possible this thread is about Digital Pikery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWorldwide Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Only exceptions are stock market trading or being a non working director/shareholder of a company. Never saw that law, can you show us it? Ditto - I'm eagerly awaiting a link on that. This issue has been hashed out in excruciating detail with the classic 'even if you send one email to your boss from Swampy, you're still working in Thailand'. To say that it's reached 'ludicrous speed' is an understatement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Only exceptions are stock market trading or being a non working director/shareholder of a company. Never saw that law, can you show us it? There we go again: http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0366.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJP Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Does this mean it's illegal for me to take the bins out even on bin day? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jspill Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 On the one hand you have dozens of anecdotal reports that no one is concerned if you generate an income for yourself but are not employed in Thailand selling to Thai customers, earning in Thai Baht, doing something that takes jobs from Thais, etc. One such post - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/749038-with-a-thai-elite-visa-can-a-person-work-legally-as-a-digital-nomad/page-7#entry8314920 Then you have the alien labor act mentioning several times e.g. Section 18 having an 'employer' and 'wages' here, fee 'contributions' taken from the 'employees' wages, makes references to 'craftsmen' etc. - seems it's about manual work. The same kind of physical work taking jobs from Thais that would make one persona non grata - http://www.thaivisa.com/392-0.html '3. Those who, having entered the Kingdom to take up employment as laborers or practice other forms of manual work that require no special skill or training' When applying for successive Ed visas sometimes students are asked to provide proof of income sourced from offshore as 'proof they aren't working'. Then you have zero historical arrests of digital nomads too. So if you are intending to do remote telecommuting here and can show it's paid from an offshore source, you shouldn't be a problem. But yes the definition of work is whatever the IO in front of you wants it to be. Luckily that's not as bad as having the usual suspects in this thread be your judge, jury and executioner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MJP Posted December 2, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2014 Imagine this . . . No more painting and decorating, no more mowing the lawn, no more taking the bins out, putting up shelves, mending the roof, even changing nappies is out of the question. Get your local friendly BIB round to brief the missus on the law. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siampolee Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 jspill Well as an aside as you appear to generate according to your comments vast amounts of money and have a luxurious lifestyle would it be possible for you to tell us how many Thai people you actually employ and how well you pay them or is that a question you cannot or will not answer? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jspill Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 jspill Well as an aside as you appear to generate according to your comments vast amounts of money and have a luxurious lifestyle would it be possible for you to tell us how many Thai people you actually employ and how well you pay them or is that a question you cannot or will not answer? That's a strange aside, I never commented on my income here or lifestyle. Why would I? The amount people earn doesn't give them any more or less right to live here. I only post about it being not 100% illegal to work remotely online, it's a grey area up to the interpretation of IOs. I don't employ anyone. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Definition of working is ANYTHING THEY SAY IT IS. forget any rules laws or otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siampolee Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 jspill post # 16 That's a strange aside, I never commented on my income here or lifestyle. Why would I? The amount people earn doesn't give them any more or less right to live here. I only post about it being not 100% illegal to work remotely online, it's a grey area up to the interpretation of IOs. I don't employ anyone. Why? You might do well to look back at s a number of your earlier posts and the comments you made regarding your lifestyle(s) A good memory is an advantage when conducting an on line campaign you know, as is a good memory for other types too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jspill Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) jspill post # 16 That's a strange aside, I never commented on my income here or lifestyle. Why would I? The amount people earn doesn't give them any more or less right to live here. I only post about it being not 100% illegal to work remotely online, it's a grey area up to the interpretation of IOs. I don't employ anyone. Why? You might do well to look back at s a number of your earlier posts and the comments you made regarding your lifestyle(s) A good memory is an advantage when conducting an on line campaign you know, as is a good memory for other types too. I only have 400 posts I'm sure I'd remember or you can link me. Ask me in the pub? This is off topic for this thread. Then let me know how the googling of me to find out my identity and report me for working online from an old thread is going. Edited December 3, 2014 by jspill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATF Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Only exceptions are stock market trading or being a non working director/shareholder of a company. Never saw that law, can you show us it? Both are well documented on Thai Visa just go to the business forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptheos Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Does this mean it's illegal for me to take the bins out even on bin day? Wear a balaclava Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveAustin Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Are you looking to become a mod, op, and worried whether you'll be legal or not. I'd be worried. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtoad Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 jspill post # 16 That's a strange aside, I never commented on my income here or lifestyle. Why would I? The amount people earn doesn't give them any more or less right to live here. I only post about it being not 100% illegal to work remotely online, it's a grey area up to the interpretation of IOs. I don't employ anyone. Why? You might do well to look back at s a number of your earlier posts and the comments you made regarding your lifestyle(s)A good memory is an advantage when conducting an on line campaign you know, as is a good memory for other types too. I only have 400 posts I'm sure I'd remember or you can link me. Ask me in the pub? This is off topic for this thread. Then let me know how the googling of me to find out my identity and report me for working online from an old thread is going. What's your thoughts on a possible ED visa clamp down, considering you have openly admitted that you abuse said visa? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jspill Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) What's your thoughts on a possible ED visa clamp down, considering you have openly admitted that you abuse said visa? Wait for the wind to change direction tomorrow? There were possible clampdown threads on these boards in 2009, 2011, 2013... I lose count. The word 'abuse' is your opinion, but I don't attend lessons, no. I pay for tuition and have learnt Thai. If attendance were to be enforced (currently planned) it would be in order to prevent students working illegally in Thai based fields, as real estate brokers, personal trainers, tour guides, etc. I know I'm not doing what they want to prevent. That's what matters, not whether I was present in class. In the unlikely event my school - which tells me not to bother attending as I can read and write already - told me I have to come as they need to submit attendance records and won't risk being inspected, then I'd switch to getting 3-4 double entry tourist visas in a row from Vientiane then a triple entry from Bali to break it up. That's the default recommendation at the mo. Edited December 3, 2014 by jspill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeijoshinCool Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 According to the ThaiVisa lawyer, K. Somsak, sitting in your own house, on your on couch, with notebook paper and pencils, is illegal. That is, if you are writing a novel on the paper. Yes, even if the novel has nothing to do with Thailand. Illegal. Criminal. Evil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwdrwdrwd Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) Only exceptions are stock market trading or being a non working director/shareholder of a company. Never saw that law, can you show us it? There we go again: http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0366.pdf Where does that mention stock market trading or being a non working director being perfectly fine? It includes anyone who exerts energy or knowledge, regardless of whether is is renumerated or not. Whilst that law you refer to makes no mention of stock market traders or silent directorships and shareholdings whatsoever, and is consequently entirely irrelevant in this context aside from highlighting that there is, in fact, no such law... as I already pointed out to you, to take the letter of that text you point to 100% literally, as you are, inevitably means that one is acting illegally by hailing a taxi without a work permit. Obviously, in practice, hailing a taxi without a Work Permit is not considered to be illegal by those that have any right to apply the law. Logically, therefore, one must conclude that the law is written in such a manner that it is up to the authorities to determine on a case by case basis. So, since we're in the realm of spirit of the law vs letter of the law - can you point to a single case of a prosecution of a remote worker that deals exclusively with non Thai clients and is renumerated offshore under Visa and Labour laws anywhere in the history of Thailand, or indeed any other country in the world? Edited December 3, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siampolee Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 jspill post # 19. I only have 400 posts I'm sure I'd remember or you can link me. Ask me in the pub? This is off topic for this thread. Then let me know how the googling of me to find out my identity and report me for working online from an old thread is going. A wonderful attempt to divert from the truth, however we do not need to search as we are all well aware of what you stand for and the posts you make that are indeed on a par with the works of the Grimm brothers of years gone by In essence you appear to consider yourself above the laws of Thailand and we therefore must presume other countries too, would that prevailing attitude of yours to the laws of a land be part of the reason you are here perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazygreg44 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) Does this mean it's illegal for me to take the bins out even on bin day? It can be very simple. Just apply a rule of the thumb : You are not allowed to work in anything, that a Thai person can do as well. Which means, if you empty the ashtrays into the bin, in the restaurant of your thai wife, you are already, definitely and absolutely breaking the law You can be the cook's instructor on how to cook farang food properly, or be the cook yourself, as per definition a thai person does not have the knowledge needed to cook up farang receipes. But this must be officially secured by a work permit issued from the relevant government institution and even then, once you step outside of your kitchen, you are not allowed to empty the bins !!! Because that's not covered by your work permit Edited December 3, 2014 by crazygreg44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jspill Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 jspill post # 19. I only have 400 posts I'm sure I'd remember or you can link me. Ask me in the pub? This is off topic for this thread. Then let me know how the googling of me to find out my identity and report me for working online from an old thread is going. A wonderful attempt to divert from the truth, however we do not need to search as we are all well aware of what you stand for and the posts you make that are indeed on a par with the works of the Grimm brothers of years gone by In essence you appear to consider yourself above the laws of Thailand and we therefore must presume other countries too, would that prevailing attitude of yours to the laws of a land be part of the reason you are here perhaps? I once replied to neverdie I live in a 10k condo when he said all digital nomads must be in box flats with a fan? Can't recall anything else. I just joined TV to challenge the assertion that working online is some dastardly illegal migration scheme. That and rustle the jimmies of some 69 year olds in the internet who can't link specific laws against telecommuting here as much as they'd like to. And no I don't have a criminal record back home. Happy father's day for tomorrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtoad Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 So the usual come back Jspill, old, criminals, bitter etc I recall another post where you said working on a tourist visa is ok. I guess, if you like to lurk in the shadows no problem, but don't complain about how unfair the regs are when you feel you don't need to comply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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