Thai "rip-off" bank charges for family maintenance from UK?

[cliveshep]

I send 32000 every month to my wife's sister to help them out. In the UK this costs me £10 to send and until last month it cost them about the same from their bank, 500 baht.to receive it.

This month the theivin' so and so's took 2300 baht to receive the money for them. So their budget of 31500 in their account suddenly dropped to 29700 instead.

So - can anyone please advise in what way I should send them money and what Thai bank doesn't practice grand larceny? I bank in the UK with Lloyds, I usually specify 32000 baht to send via swift transfer on-line but I could send as sterling I think if that attracted a better rate in Thailand, but would they be better off leaving Siam Commercial Bank and opening an account in another bank altogether?

Next year my wife and I are wanting to move to Thailand and I'll be moving large sums across from the UK to pay for a new home for us all so I have a vested interest in not being ripped off at the same %-rate in any bank we try to open an account with.

Can anyone offer informed help please? Thanks to all and a Happy Christmas.

[MartinBangkok]

Forget about the banks. But most importantly forget about your girlfriend and family. Sending your wifes sister 32.000 baht a month? Do you really think they see you as anything but a stupid white buffalo and a walking ATM? That big chunk of money you're thinking of bringing over will diminish quickly, on par with you're wifeys affection towards you.

[SheungWan]

Actually the charges you were previously incurring seem rather low. However, now that the commission rates are comparatively higher, there are two options you might explore. The first is to try using an FX company such as Moneycorp for an alternative quote. The second is to transfer say a quarterly amount to your own Thai bank account assuming you have one and then making the monthly transfers to your wife's family account from there.

[wooloomooloo]

So their budget of 31500 in their account suddenly dropped to 29700 instead.

Jeez. They must be living in dire poverty.

As SheungWan informs, get an FX account, or transfer from Bangkok Bank, London to a Bangkok Bank LOS branch account. Swift payment charge of about £20.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Send them a Kalixa Pay Prepaid Mastercard. Top it up with a nominal amount, say £10. Once they receive it, you can then add the funds.

This card passes on the full Mastercard rate. On Friday; 51.23 baht. The only charge is to £2.25(115 baht)to withdraw via the ATM. Unfortunately the max you can draw per day is £300(15400 baht). So each ATM withdrawal will cost up to 295 baht(£5.75). So to withdraw 30800 baht over two days costs £11.50(590 baht) in total. Less than you were paying before and a lot less than you are currently paying.

Unfortunately, she won't be able to use the card over the counter to avoid the ATM withdrawal fee, as the card will not be in her name.

[theoldgit]

Most Thai banks seem to charge .25% to receive funds from overseas, they normally have a minimum charge of 200 Baht with a maximum of 500.

That's for receiving foreign currency, you may be paying more as you're sending Baht, you will certainly be getting a poorer rate buying Baht in the UK.

Lloyds may use an intermediary bank who will also take a cut.

I have to agree with other comments that sending 32,000 Baht to relatives is a slippery slope, it's your business but it's higher than the average salary and really isn't a good idea. Do they have their own salary?

[apetley]

I use HSBC to Kasikorn.

Hsbc charges 4 pounds per transfer, Kasikorn between 200 and 500 bht.

I always send sterling as I get a better exchange rate from Thai banks.

[meatboy]

how many times have it been posted in this forum? DO NOT SEND BAHT FROM THE UK. as its been suggested send a sum every 3-4months [sTERLING] and does the op.know how much the others sending her money pay.

[topt]

how many times have it been posted in this forum? DO NOT SEND BAHT FROM THE UK. as its been suggested send a sum every 3-4months [sTERLING] and does the op.know how much the others sending her money pay.

Agree with meatboy and OP, suggest you check what exchange rate you were getting with Lloyds compared to the SCB TT rates which you can find online here - http://www.scb.co.th/scb_api/index.jsp

I would also double check with your bank as if suddenly an extra charge it sounds like a correspondent/intermediary bank fee as theoldgit mentioned. 32,000baht or around £600 is too small a sum to be sending to be economical.

[AyG]

Why not send, say, a whole year's money to a Thai bank under your control, then use Internet banking once a month to transfer the requisite amount to the family? This will dramatically cut charges, whilst keeping you in control.

[cliveshep]

Some of the comments are a bit unkind so to clarify -I support my WIFE'S family in Bangkok, which means maintaining 3 of them none of whom work. One is unfit to work, one has a broken back and cannot do much of anything, and the other is a child at school. I pay for their upkeep gladly including the family home, the car, sending one of them to school. My WIFE (UNI student and not ever a bar-girl type thank you) is with me in the UK. They are the most kind, moral and considerate family you could wish to find and my wife is not only my best friend but partner in everything.

32000 might be a big salary in Thailand but for 3 and including home and car it is barely enough and when we visit we do have somewhere to stay with our loving family. That is not the issue I posted about. I cannot afford to send large sums of money twice a year so I send the £600 or so monthly. What I don't want is to see it whittled down like this and later next year when I retire it will be more crucial as funds will be limited.

The pre-paid credit card is a good short-term solution that is worth looking at - thanks for that Jiu-jitsu,

apetley - that is the sort of answer I need - thanks. I do so much with Lloyds, we have between us including Business accounts some 7 accounts so moving to HSBC will need careful thought first but it actually looks like a cheaper long-term answer. The family could presumably get an account with Kasikorn.

Meatboy - NO-ONE else sends money to the family??? But I get the point about choosing to send sterling with the on-line swift transfer to get the better rate. Lloyds are rip-off artists with their rates anyway - I didn't realise the option to sidestep their exchange rate was available until I read something on here last night.

Just a thought - HSBC have branches all over Thailand, and at least two near the family home in Pathum Thani. Does anyone know if one transfers from a UK HSBC account to a Thai HSBC account one can save even more?

Thank you for your responses.

[theoldgit]

HSBC have closed their personal and business banking arm in Thailand.

They only have one branch now, and that's just for corporate customers.

They are still about the cheapest for sending money.

Don't think anybody was criticising your decision to send cash to the extended family, as I said, it's none of our business.

[Hornell]

I've been sending over 800 quid from the UK via Moneycorp for about 8 years by DD from my bank (Lloyds); it works like a dream, never had a problem and the BAY charges 100 baht on each receipt.

[cliveshep]

I've been sending over 800 quid from the UK via Moneycorp for about 8 years by DD from my bank (Lloyds); it works like a dream, never had a problem and the BAY charges 100 baht on each receipt.

Whooooa.............tell me more please. Do I have to send by DD or can I simply on-line transfer varying amounts? What is the BAY? I don't understand that.

[Pib]

Yea, sure sounds like the Thai bank (SCB) is "still" charging their 0.25% (Bt300 min, Bt500max) currency receipt/conversion fee (this applies where the funds arrive already converted to baht or arrive in foreign currency) but OP's Sending bank increased their fees and/or their exchange rate got worst...probably the later. Never let the Sending bank convert to baht as you will get a lower rate than the TT Buying Rate provided by Thai banks---this has been pointed out on ThaiVisa about a zillion times.

Plus, the GBP has depreciated against the baht over last few months...back around July it was around 55....now it's down to a little over 51, which means less baht into the Thai bank account if sending the same amount of GBP....or to send the same amount of baht you have to spend more GBP.

A lot of times the Sending bank will charge a lower direct/upfront fee if you allow them to convert the currency for you, but their lower exchange rate extracts a high indirect fee. A person always needs to price it out but "not" letting your Sending bank convert the funds and accepting the higher upfront/direct fee will most likely put less money into your bank's pocket (i.e., combined direct and indirect fees) and keep more in yours.

[jacky54]

I was charged over 1200 baht by Tanachart- the same amount Nationwide charged to send it at the time. This was due to me not checking debit charges from receiving bank, as it was debit from sending bank Tanachart helped themselves to 25 pounds as well. Mind you that was not as bad as being swindled on exchange rate to the sum of 40k baht.

[skatewash]

I've been sending over 800 quid from the UK via Moneycorp for about 8 years by DD from my bank (Lloyds); it works like a dream, never had a problem and the BAY charges 100 baht on each receipt.

Whooooa.............tell me more please. Do I have to send by DD or can I simply on-line transfer varying amounts? What is the BAY? I don't understand that.

BAY is Bank of Ayudhya, commonly called Krungsri: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_Ayudhya

Also, I think you'll find that BAY imposes the same fees on foreign remittances as other Thai banks (I think the fee structure must be established by the Bank of Thailand):

http://www.krungsri.com/bank/en/PersonalBanking/BankingServices/InternationalRemittanceServices/InwardRemittance.html

The minimum would seem to be 200 Baht per transfer.

Edited December 6, 2014 by skatewash

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I've been sending over 800 quid from the UK via Moneycorp for about 8 years by DD from my bank (Lloyds); it works like a dream, never had a problem and the BAY charges 100 baht on each receipt.

Whooooa.............tell me more please. Do I have to send by DD or can I simply on-line transfer varying amounts? What is the BAY? I don't understand that.

You still have to pay Moneycorp for the transfer and to accept a lower exchange rate. I'm sure they don't offer 51.23 today.

[Pib]

The inward remittance fee is 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) for the majority of Thai banks, but some like SCB charge 0.25% (Bt300 min, Bt500 max), some a flat fee like Bt330, Bt500, etc. Since the fees vary they are not set by the Bank of Thailand (BOT) but I expect BOT try to keep the fees within a certain boundary.

At this BOT webpage a person can see the inward remittance fees for a lot of Thai banks....but all banks apparently don't keep BOT updated on their fees and a person must go to the individual bank's web site, call them, or visit a branch to find out the fees. You won't find Siam Commerical Bank (SCB) inward remittance fee on the BOT webpage...SCB is one of those banks you have to dig a little more to get their fee schedules.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

The inward remittance fee is not the issue for the OP(useful link nonetheless). It's whether he is sending in Pounds or Baht and/or whether an Intermediary bank has been introduced to the equation.

The upside of using the Prepaid card, is that if they can use the card to pay a bill directly, they will access the full Mastercard rate without fees. The downside, as aforementioned, is that if they need cash, they can only take the equivalent of £300 per time at a cost of 295 baht(115 + 180 baht). Whilst that is still relatively good value, it's perhaps the inconvenience of needing to go to the ATM more than once for the month. But perhaps that is not an imposition for the family.

[djhotsox]

Definitely request to have the money changed to Baht by the Thai bank you use in Thailand, not an intermediary bank (if there is one) and not your UK bank. Definitely get a much better rate in Thailand. You actually may be shocked at the difference!

[meatboy]

I've been sending over 800 quid from the UK via Moneycorp for about 8 years by DD from my bank (Lloyds); it works like a dream, never had a problem and the BAY charges 100 baht on each receipt.

Whooooa.............tell me more please. Do I have to send by DD or can I simply on-line transfer varying amounts? What is the BAY? I don't understand that.

You still have to pay Moneycorp for the transfer and to accept a lower exchange rate. I'm sure they don't offer 51.23 today.

you do not pay moneycorpe for the trans,their cut will come from the exchange rate they give you.

they used to be favourable with the tt.rates but now they cannot match the onshore rates.

the only way you can benefit is by buying in advance,then you must be happy with what you think is a favourable rate you are happy with,but there again if you are keeping someones family its them that are happy with any rate.

when you are hopeing for a good rate[arent we all] never set your sights toooooooooooo high dont be greedy or you will pay the price.

before 2009 i used to but bhts.at moneycorpe in large amounts 2mill.bht plus.which was in the range of 72 [2005]

to 67 in 2008,but i set my target at 44-46 because in over 30yrs i have seen it at 38-97bht.

[SheungWan]

I've been sending over 800 quid from the UK via Moneycorp for about 8 years by DD from my bank (Lloyds); it works like a dream, never had a problem and the BAY charges 100 baht on each receipt.

Whooooa.............tell me more please. Do I have to send by DD or can I simply on-line transfer varying amounts? What is the BAY? I don't understand that.

You still have to pay Moneycorp for the transfer and to accept a lower exchange rate. I'm sure they don't offer 51.23 today.

you do not pay moneycorpe for the trans,their cut will come from the exchange rate they give you.

they used to be favourable with the tt.rates but now they cannot match the onshore rates.

the only way you can benefit is by buying in advance,then you must be happy with what you think is a favourable rate you are happy with,but there again if you are keeping someones family its them that are happy with any rate.

when you are hopeing for a good rate[arent we all] never set your sights toooooooooooo high dont be greedy or you will pay the price.

before 2009 i used to but bhts.at moneycorpe in large amounts 2mill.bht plus.which was in the range of 72 [2005]

to 67 in 2008,but i set my target at 44-46 because in over 30yrs i have seen it at 38-97bht.

In my experience Moneycorp have been better than my bank in the rate offered for conversion in other currencies. And better converting the currency UK side than in the other country. But not Thailand. Always better converting it at destination.

[mikebell]

Moneycorp charge 8 UKP per transfer. I change 5K and they give me 4992s worth of baht.

[meatboy]

Moneycorp charge 8 UKP per transfer. I change 5K and they give me 4992s worth of baht.

i think you mean 49.92 for 1gbp.

you will find moneycorpe will beat any uk.bank on the exchange and they are easy to deal with once you have set up an account.if the rate is good you can always buy in advance,yes you can lose as well as winning.

but if you are going to send say a large amount for a property[for the wife] you wont beat the onshore rate,and like we did on the last transfer got a better rate than TT.

[cliveshep]

Moneycorp charge 8 UKP per transfer. I change 5K and they give me 4992s worth of baht.

i think you mean 49.92 for 1gbp.

you will find moneycorpe will beat any uk.bank on the exchange and they are easy to deal with once you have set up an account.if the rate is good you can always buy in advance,yes you can lose as well as winning.

but if you are going to send say a large amount for a property[for the wife] you wont beat the onshore rate,and like we did on the last transfer got a better rate than TT.

So for the ignorant and inexperienced one here - how do I get the "on-shore" rate you spoke about? By transferring in sterling from my UK bank to a Thai bank? Or is that by some other means?

[Pib]

Yes, transfer in sterling. DO NOT let your sending bank convert for you. Sending banks love to convert funds as they make a nice little exchange rate profit at your expense via the lower exchange rate they provide..call it a hidden/indirect fee. The Thai bank TT Buying Rate used for incoming wire transfers will be significantly better than a rate offered outside of Thailand because the Thai baht is not a major world currency and pretty much only used within Thailand.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Moneycorp charge 8 UKP per transfer. I change 5K and they give me 4992s worth of baht.

i think you mean 49.92 for 1gbp.

you will find moneycorpe will beat any uk.bank on the exchange and they are easy to deal with once you have set up an account.if the rate is good you can always buy in advance,yes you can lose as well as winning.

but if you are going to send say a large amount for a property[for the wife] you wont beat the onshore rate,and like we did on the last transfer got a better rate than TT.

So for the ignorant and inexperienced one here - how do I get the "on-shore" rate you spoke about? By transferring in sterling from my UK bank to a Thai bank? Or is that by some other means?

The way to receive the 'on-shore' rate should be much as what you were doing before. £10 to £20 to send it and £4 to £6 to receive it. Halifax Bank charges £9.50. HSBC on some occasion can charge £4. Though you'll need to check on which account and the criteria.

The Prepaid card is still superior, as you obtain the 'on-shore rate', but with a lesser overall charge of £11.50 or so. Sending Sterling via a bank can cost £13.50 to £26 on average, as illustrated.

[meatboy]

Moneycorp charge 8 UKP per transfer. I change 5K and they give me 4992s worth of baht.

i think you mean 49.92 for 1gbp.

you will find moneycorpe will beat any uk.bank on the exchange and they are easy to deal with once you have set up an account.if the rate is good you can always buy in advance,yes you can lose as well as winning.

but if you are going to send say a large amount for a property[for the wife] you wont beat the onshore rate,and like we did on the last transfer got a better rate than TT.

So for the ignorant and inexperienced one here - how do I get the "on-shore" rate you spoke about? By transferring in sterling from my UK bank to a Thai bank? Or is that by some other means?

The way to receive the 'on-shore' rate should be much as what you were doing before. £10 to £20 to send it and £4 to £6 to receive it. Halifax Bank charges £9.50. HSBC on some occasion can charge £4. Though you'll need to check on which account and the criteria.

The Prepaid card is still superior, as you obtain the 'on-shore rate', but with a lesser overall charge of £11.50 or so. Sending Sterling via a bank can cost £13.50 to £26 on average, as illustrated.

first of all,to send a large amount to the receivers bank you need to stipulate what its for otherwise it will be refused.

so if its for a house purchase,try to say where it is.as for the onshore rate that is the receiving bank.[thailand]

as i said the receiver will get a call from could be central bank in thailand,if for example the TT rate is 50 they will offer you a bit more[in our case the wife got 12satang extra,so if you are say trans 100,000 uk.pounds that works out

12,000bht.not to be sniffed at.our exs.cost uk.and thai bank 2,000bht.swift express so we were still 10,000bht.better off.

there are cheaper banks in the uk.that will do a swift trans.cheaper but as it might take 2-3days you could get more or less.mine i contact the bank uk.say 10am.uk time 4-5pm.thai time and its in the thai acc by 9am.next day.

[cliveshep]

That's really helpful Jiu Jitsu and Meatboy, thank you. So far I've not had to make any decisions in Thailand, my beloved and the family just take care of everything but I know that this sort of thing is outside of their expertise and of mine. Net year if I've done my homework right, reading Thai Visa and CoolThaiHouse for example, we should avoid at least many basic farang mistakes.

Looks like for years I've blithely lost money by stipulating how many baht to send each month because I know what they need, rather than do a calculation and sending the sterling. So I'm grateful to you all for that.