Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[JohnThailandJohn]

The report said the families back the police investigation,

which police are they talking about, the Thai or the UK's?

Use your head --- only one police department investigated the case and are involved in filing and bringing charges. The UK police just reported on and examined the Thai investigation and evidence the Thai police already collected. The statement is very clear in showing gratitude to the Thai police for letting the UK police review the case and to the UK police for doing so and reporting directly back to the parents about the strength and credibility of the case.

[StealthEnergiser]

Even Dr Pornthip saws flaws in the investigation most people want the truth and the police's handling of this has been very questionable from the first day they let people with influence onto the crime scene.

[Baerboxer]

One of the statements reproduced in full here:

http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/update/2014-12-05/the-families-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-millerback-police-investigation/

Quote from the article.

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes and want to remind both press and public that they do not have the full facts to report and make comment on at this stage. Current news reporting is causing undue distress to our family."

Please read the last sentence carefully.

Since you have been the most active poster on all the Koh Tao threads, the comment of course has nothing to do with you??

You JOC have been somewhat active too in your support for "the poor innocent B2 Burmese boys". Now it seems the evidence, all the evidence, seen by the British police and the bereaved families doesn't seem to support your particular view and theories following their comments.

Why not have the courtesy to respect the family's wish? Or do you consider your opinion to be too important?

First of all, am i the only one, who finds it strange, that the families appear to have seen the secret evidence from the RTP, when the accused and their lawyers are still in the dark??

Secondly, if you don't want to read, what is written on Thaivisa, don't log in. Simple!!

The UK police presented their report to the family. We knew that would happen. So, yes you and a few other conspiracy theorists are the only ones.

If the UK Police report had rubbished the investigation, and suggested the two accused were scapegoats, JOC and his cohorts would be crowing and shouting for apologies from all those who had not worshiped the wisdom of the conspiracy theorists and the guru CSI LA.

Now the report and evidence seems to contradict their "wisdom" they will not act as they preach. Now it will be a new conspiracy with the British government joining in, the families and anyone else who can't see that only they must be right.

[DaveE13]

i agree with jip99. Lets have respect for the famillies. most of us are familly men on here and god fobid if i ever lost a child in the same way these famllies had.this is now going to be a bloody pissing contest on here now!

[cup-O-coffee]

I just think everyone is trying to save their ass here, and that does not exclude any British involvement.

I feel badly for the families.

The Thai "experts" have shown the world what they have come up with.

When one considers this and doesn't agree with it, then one has to ask the question, "What can one do otherwise?". The answer is nothing.

Nothing.

There is absolutely nothing that anyone can do or is going to do even if deep deep down they believe that the "evidence" is genuine, Which I do not. This was going on whilst someone was stuffing away billions of bahts in his house.

But as I said, what can anyone do about it. It's like wrestling with a pig, and I seriously doubt that the British agencies want to get down in the mud and get an honest answer out of these people, when they know full well that it is impossible.

This crime happened in Thailand's playground, and by the time anyone got a chance to see ANYTHING, the events that transpired were so ludicrous that one could not write it. You couldn't make a movie out of this.

The gullible people in this thread are throwing around the word "evidence" like they are two stone tablets from God.

Evidence! Yeah right... in name only.

But, as another poster said, and I agree with, the family needs closure. I mean, when grieving, one can only take the BS so long before one realizes it is time to accept that they will never really know deep deep down inside, and that it is time to move on. I don;t know if that is what they think, but that is what I think, and I am entitled to that.

One can only take so much BS from someone, and it only stings more to know one can't do anything to the ones offering up the BS to get them to change. Sometimes it's simply better to just turn and walk away in disgust.

Anyway, that is how I feel, everyone is just covering their ass and the family has to accept that no one is going to tarnish their reputations by wrestling with the pigs, and the pigs will never change.

[terryp]

simple question then: so why are those eye witness so scared to come forward with evidence that obviously clears the fall guys and is damming to some serious people on KT

its all total Bolluks, I have no faith in any legal/police ofr government agency here the corruption is so deep and out of control

[NeverSure]

First of all, am i the only one, who finds it strange, that the families appear to have seen the secret evidence from the RTP, when the accused and their lawyers are still in the dark??

-snip-

For the moment, this is it for me and I'm throwing the BS flag.

I do not believe that the families have been shown substantial evidence that no one else has been allowed to see.

I'm taking a wait and see attitude about whether the families even wrote this verbatim because it does seem to be from the moon.

If it proves to be true, so be it. To have Scotland Yard show these people "substantial" evidence while they are keeping what they know from the rest of the world would be most unusual to say the least.

What do you expect - a personal briefing from the British Police followed by a discussion with both families? Do you think you should have been invited to see all the evidence before the trail for some reason?

We aren't relevant. But the families are and these formal statements have been made, by the families after the British police presented everything to them and to their family support officers.

Read there statements carefully. Oh, that won't help because you seem to think it was written for them. That the thing with conspiracy theories, you can always add a new one to the web.

"....these formal statements have been made, by the families after the British police presented everything to them and to their family support officers."

It is simply very hard for me to believe that Scotland Yard shared all of that evidence with the families when they won't share it with the rest of the world. I don't believe that Scotland Yard would put themselves in a position where the families are their spokespersons.

If it proves to be true, so be it. In the meantime it seems incredibly odd to me.

[Thomas33399]

Finally a bit of balance to the argument. After all The Thai bashing that is so favoured by the derelicts on this site, the 'human rights' groups and by the international media (none of whom had the slightest notion of what the police had actually done).

Amazing how people can become so completely absorbed in their own negative gossip and innuendo.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Even Dr Pornthip saws flaws in the investigation most people want the truth and the police's handling of this has been very questionable from the first day they let people with influence onto the crime scene.

Did she suspect somebody planted the suspect's semen in the victim? Let me answer, no. She expressed concern over the police not involving another group to collect evidence and handle the crime scene. Police are human and in every case they screw up but it usually doesn't mean the suspects goes free and it may come as a shock to you but in less developed nations, police are less trained, underpaid and screw up more. But the fact remains, no credible person has come up with any plausible scenario of how the suspects semen got into the victim ... anyone thinking this through and the timeline of the case and how it unfolded and those involved with testing and when the semen was collected will know it would be extremely implausible and one of the best carried out conspiracies and plans ever for them to plant the semen in the victim ... of course this would have been done by the same police people claim are clueless.

[Mooner]

The idea that two little Burmese guys could subdue, and then drag David Miller into the sea and drown him while Hannah sat on the beach and waited to be raped and murdered stretches my imagination to breaking point.

This is the main thing that gets me. Im wondering the scenario where this could happen. We have heard from the official statement that he was hit from behind when on Hannah.

Then what happened? Hannah screams? Why has he got hand injuries indicating a fight? How did he get the facial injuries?

I will feel more at ease when the trial reveals this.

[DaveE13]

@johnthailandjohn. agree with you Dr. Pornthip was concerned with the evidence at the crime scene. hopefuly RTP can learn from this and change procedures at major crime scene in the future.

[JohnThailandJohn]

johnt thailand john. the familly need some respect. they have asked this. you should resoect there wishes mate

I have always been supportive of the family and seeing these two suspects brought to justice and allowing the rest of the facts to come out. Never have tried to put out conspiracy theories or perpetuated BS and have actually tried to enlighten people that were doing these things that the family says have been hurtful and have also slowed the justice process and hurt an innocent university kid simply because he was born to an island headsman.

I wouldn't expect many who have been so hurtful and purposely obtuse with the facts to do anything but distort the families wishes as they have the entire case but much respect to those who have reconsidered their stance in being so sure these two suspects where innocent and fell victim to the nonsense being spread by so many online.

[Anthony5]

First of all, am i the only one, who finds it strange, that the families appear to have seen the secret evidence from the RTP, when the accused and their lawyers are still in the dark??

-snip-

For the moment, this is it for me and I'm throwing the BS flag.

I do not believe that the families have been shown substantial evidence that no one else has been allowed to see.

I'm taking a wait and see attitude about whether the families even wrote this verbatim because it does seem to be from the moon.

If it proves to be true, so be it. To have Scotland Yard show these people "substantial" evidence while they are keeping what they know from the rest of the world would be most unusual to say the least.

What do you expect - a personal briefing from the British Police followed by a discussion with both families? Do you think you should have been invited to see all the evidence before the trail for some reason?

We aren't relevant. But the families are and these formal statements have been made, by the families after the British police presented everything to them and to their family support officers.

Read there statements carefully. Oh, that won't help because you seem to think it was written for them. That the thing with conspiracy theories, you can always add a new one to the web.

"....these formal statements have been made, by the families after the British police presented everything to them and to their family support officers."

It is simply very hard for me to believe that Scotland Yard shared all of that evidence with the families when they won't share it with the rest of the world. I don't believe that Scotland Yard would put themselves in a position where the families are their spokespersons.

If it proves to be true, so be it. In the meantime it seems incredibly odd to me.

The statement also doesn't say that Scotland Yard shared ALL the evidence with them, as your new conspiracy theory tries to claim, it clearly says that it shared SOME of the evidence and that this was enough to convince them that all is above water.

There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us.

We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes and want to remind both press and public that they do not have the full facts to report and make comment on at this stage. Current news reporting is causing undue distress to our family.

[DaveE13]

i agree with you JohnTJohn. Dr Pornthip was concerned with the handling of the evidence at the crime scene and hopefully RTP can learn from the mistakes made at the start of this case and start treating major crime scenes in a more proffesional way.

[jdinasia]

The idea that two little Burmese guys could subdue, and then drag David Miller into the sea and drown him while Hannah sat on the beach and waited to be raped and murdered stretches my imagination to breaking point.

This is the main thing that gets me. Im wondering the scenario where this could happen. We have heard from the official statement that he was hit from behind when on Hannah.

Then what happened? Hannah screams? Why has he got hand injuries indicating a fight? How did he get the facial injuries?

I will feel more at ease when the trial reveals this.

No respect. Still speculating wildly.

[jdinasia]

i agree with you JohnTJohn. Dr Pornthip was concerned with the handling of the evidence at the crime scene and hopefully RTP can learn from the mistakes made at the start of this case and start treating major crime scenes in a more proffesional way.

On a tiny island with only 7 cops, you will get what you get, until there is better training at lower ranks.

[JohnThailandJohn]

"....these formal statements have been made, by the families after the British police presented everything to them and to their family support officers."

It is simply very hard for me to believe that Scotland Yard shared all of that evidence with the families when they won't share it with the rest of the world. I don't believe that Scotland Yard would put themselves in a position where the families are their spokespersons.

If it proves to be true, so be it. In the meantime it seems incredibly odd to me.

The statement also doesn't say that Scotland Yard shared ALL the evidence with them, as your new conspiracy theory tries to claim, it clearly says that it shared SOME of the evidence and that this was enough to convince them that all is above water.

UK Police don't even have all the evidence -- they got everything they needed in terms of if the case was real and being handled properly and then left before the final case was presented to prosecutors. And do some people really think it is uncommon for police and prosecutors to share information with families that is not released to the public?

[DaveE13]

i have john as the case has gone on i have said all along we need to wait for all the facts to come out in court.

[DaveE13]

jd. yes i agree there needs to be better trainning. and hooefully it will. it will be a good legacy to the victims if a complete review of all basic trainning is changed.

[catweazle]

Well, this superficially researched OP is the cream on top of a despicable travesty that screams "Wrong, wrooong, something is wrong here!!!" from any direction right into the face of any person who has a minimum of sanity left. I'm lost for words...

[Krataiboy]

I am not very familiar with Thai criminal law, but in the UK, once somebody has been charged with an offence there are very strict limitations on what can be published.

The grieving families, for whom one has the deepest sympathy, are not privy to all the material which will be presented in court (particularly from the defence) and clearly have no wish unfairly to influence the court hearing.

Knowing this, for the Foreign Office to release information to the Press which they must be aware could have a considerable bearing on the proceedings is absolutely outrageous. Equally concerning at a Thai domestic level is the freedom of their media to publish such potentially damning material at such a late stage.

When a contingent of UK police was sent to Thailand to "observe" rather than participate in the murder investigation, there was a suspicion that the UK government was simply window dressing, concerned more with preserving good diplomatic relations than with helping to prevent a possible miscarriage of justice.

None of the ambiguous statements made by UK government sources since have done anything to disabuse this interpretation. Indeed, it has been reinforced by the untimely Foreign Office intervention - which one assumes must have been approved in advance at the highest level.

In contrast to this surprise spanner tossed egregiously into the legal works, we have yet to hear the findings of the UK police observers assigned to monitor the conduct of the murder investigation by their Thai equivalents. In the light of the Foreign Office's remarkably uninhibited behavior, the reason surely cannot be because the contents might be considered prejudicial to the imminent murder trial.

The circumstances of this dreadful crime are already murky enough to require no further muddying by outside forces. With the accused men have been formally charged and remanded, any further public discussion on their culpability should be considered sub judice and any violators charged with contempt of court.

This should apply to not only to professional commentators in the media but also to contributors to public opinion forums such as Thai Visa. While posters' motivations may well be admirable, limited access to the detailed facts of the case means any conclusions drawn may well be unreliable and any opinions therefore irrelevant. In the interests of justice, silence should, from now on, be golden.

[JohnThailandJohn]

i agree with you JohnTJohn. Dr Pornthip was concerned with the handling of the evidence at the crime scene and hopefully RTP can learn from the mistakes made at the start of this case and start treating major crime scenes in a more proffesional way.

On a tiny island with only 7 cops, you will get what you get, until there is better training at lower ranks.

Agree -- just important to keep in mind there have been valid criminal cases tried and valid convictions going on well before there was even electricity ... at least the Thai police did have the ability to collect DNA and even if not under the right circumstances, contamination from the scene wouldn't put the semen of a suspect in the victim let along two related suspects.

[anon7867763]

The familly want closure which is fully understandable.I never beleived that the UK detectives would get to the root of this , after all they were just observing and not investigating.Either it´s a question of extremely shoddy communication on behalf ogf the RTP or it´s a deal done between the 2 Governments for business and trade reasons beyond our boundries.Still a lot of unanswered questions and until or if they are ever answered we will never know.

[Willy Eckerslike]

I knew it. See, even the victims families agreed that those muslim workers illegal foreigners from the poor countries next door are the murders.

[jdinasia]

jd. yes i agree there needs to be better trainning. and hooefully it will. it will be a good legacy to the victims if a complete review of all basic trainning is changed.

I know a little about the basic education of officers in the RTP. I have no idea what "enlisted" police learn, nor do I know what the officers learn regarding how to handle a crime scene. I am hoping to spend some time at the RTP Academy next year.

[thailandchilli]

Better to print the whole statement not the edited and spun version from the newspapers, if people still continue to bicker after reading this then shame on you, from either side of the fence

Date: 6 December 2014 06:34:17 GMT+9

Subject: Family statements: Issued on behalf of the families of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

Family statements: Issued on behalf of the families of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

Statement from the family of Hannah Witheridge

UK detectives travelled to Thailand last month to �gobserve and review�h the murder case of our precious Daughter Hannah, and also that of David Miller. We would like to thank the officers who travelled to Thailand to review the case and the Royal Thai Police for facilitating their visit.

Since their return we have been able to meet with these officers together with our family liaison officers to learn about the investigation. There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us. We respect the need for such detail not to be shared publically before Royal Thai Police start their trial process.

We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes and want to remind both press and public that they do not have the full facts to report and make comment on at this stage. Current news reporting is causing undue distress to our family.

We ask as a family, as we have throughout, that we are afforded privacy and that Hannah and David are afforded their dignity during this time of immense pain and difficulty.

Our thoughts, as always, are with the Miller family. Together we stand united and focused on seeing a fair and transparent trial process to bring about justice for our beautiful children.

Statement from the family of David Miller

We would like to express our relief that progress is being made in Thailand and this case is finally coming to court.

We would like to reiterate our gratitude to the UK Metropolitan Police, who received the co-operation of the Royal Thai Police in undertaking an independent review into the investigation.

The evidence collected by the Royal Thai police will be presented at court and we hope the suspects are granted a fair and transparent trial. We are thankful of the over-sight of pressure groups such as Reprieve and Amnesty.

In the meantime however, we ask that the speculative theories circulating on social media are not taken as fact. These interpretations are based on incomplete evidence and substantial conjecture.

The increasing sensationalism of this story in the media is emotionally hurtful to us and appears to be wide of the mark.

The support for the Myanmar suspects has been strong and vocal, but please do not jump to conclusions until you have considered the evidence from both sides in full.

From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.

Please remember that this is above all a story of two wonderful young people, David and Hannah, killed in the prime of their lives in a senseless and brutal way.

Further speculation should be put aside until all the evidence is made public and appropriate conclusions can be drawn.

We remain united with the Witheridge family in our shared grief.

Ian Sue and Michael Miller

Note to Editors

1. The family request privacy and no direct contact from the media at this time.

Newsdesk

Media Office l Foreign and Commonwealth Office

Do you have a link to this original release? Seems like the news sites picked this up from a press release ... "Newsdesk - Media Office l Foreign and Commonwealth Office "

its from Andy Hall but do not have original from FCO https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10152642326445677&id=675065676&ref=bookmark

[anon7867763]

I knew it. See, even the victims families agreed that those muslim workers illegal foreigners from the poor countries next door are the murders.

Dislike.jpg

I´m not sure that these workers are Muslim ???

[Mooner]

The idea that two little Burmese guys could subdue, and then drag David Miller into the sea and drown him while Hannah sat on the beach and waited to be raped and murdered stretches my imagination to breaking point.

This is the main thing that gets me. Im wondering the scenario where this could happen. We have heard from the official statement that he was hit from behind when on Hannah.

Then what happened? Hannah screams? Why has he got hand injuries indicating a fight? How did he get the facial injuries?

I will feel more at ease when the trial reveals this.

No respect. Still speculating wildly.

Not speculating!! Speculating is putting forward a theory. Open a dictionary!

Just asking questions....democracy allows me this privilege!!

[loonodingle]

Well if the parents are happy with the compelling evidence then we must respect that. Its easy to get washed along in the wave of conspiracy theories.

But i did see in one of the statements from the burmese men that they said they where drinking on the beach a day couldn't remember anything. That concerned me. It's a poss cop out. We where so drunk we know nothing.

Anyway the parents are the people who want justice to be done so let'srespect their comments.

[Globeman]

I just hope the families haven't been reading the absolute crap that went on for thousands of posts from the conspiracy theorists on here and if not grizzly photos then the description of the crime scene in graphic detail.

I said it before and I will say again shame on all of you that know as much about this case as me and that's f&$K all.

Bloody disgraceful!

What exactly is disgraceful besides the bumbling and biased police investigation? Are you suggesting that nobody should speculate on a case that has obviously been mishandled and that appears to be a fit up job? Are we just to sit quietly while the "proper authorities" (or so-called "experts") do what they like and not question because we know as little as you claim to not know?

If information isn't shared, people will always try to unearth it, or, unfortunately in some cases, just make it up. And it can be surprising what an intelligent "layman" can find and/or hypothesise.

As an example the "grisly" photos (not "grizzly" - those would be pictures of a very large and ferocious brown bear) were very telling for those who could stomach them. Among other things, they showed that the alleged "bludgeoning" of David Miller bore an alarming resemblance to a multiple stabbing. I'm sorry if they make the family feel bad (as if they could feel worse than they already do), but they were not easy to find (at least when I looked for them two months ago) - family members were unlikely to stumble across them by accident.