Gasoline prices in Thailand not budging as in rest of World

[thailiketoo]

If you are going to compare Fuel prices in Thailand to any other country you have to take in competition or lack thereof, in securing leases, production, transport and sale of produced oil, refining charge (not to be confused with cost), transport of refined product to retail pumps, subsquent sale to consumer.

If you will look at the intials PTT, you may find they have a position in Thailand that would be the envy of many private/public oil companies. The throw in political figures who hold substantial shares in Ptt companies as well as setting oil fund legistation, tax rates and collection and you have a conflict of intrest since the system was hatched.

The addmision that several billion baht in tax revenue had been pocketed by oversight groups, at the retail pump outlets due to different tax rates on fuels (lpg, different petrol grades, etc) should be enough evidence for even the most uninformed.

Netherlands and Italy $9.40 Thailand $4.46

http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst//highest-gas-prices-countries

[SheungWan]

Thailand oil price setting info:

http://thainews.prd.go.th/centerweb/newsen/NewsDetail?NT01_NewsID=WNECO5711270010009

http://esso.listedcompany.com/faq.html

[gemguy]

The following countries have higher fuel prices than Thailand. Are they all in cahoots?

Norway Netherlands Italy Denmark Greece Belgium Portugal Germany

Turkey Finland Israel Hong Kong United Kingdom Ireland France Sweden Slovenia Malta

Cyprus Slovakia Switzerland Spain Croatia Romania Austria Hungary Luxembourg

New Zealand Latvia Czech Republic Lihuania Bulgaria Estonia Poland Souh Korea Singapore

Japan Chile Brazil Argentina Australia Souh Africa

India China Canada Philippines

http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst//highest-gas-prices-countries

You are a bit of a slooooooow learner.

Because Those countries have higher operating costs , they have higher taxes ( much, much higher in many cases ), they have higher import levies, they have no refineries in many cases, they have higher corporate taxation structures, they have higher wages and a long list of reasons why they have high prices at the pump.

Meantime that point was not the original subject matter so you have driven the whole subject matter of course...as you are now off in left field in defense of your submission.

We are talking about why is it exactly the prices of fuel in Thailand ( not other countries ) do not reflect the current prices of crude oil relative to a "said to be" free market, with no government controls or regulations or intervention that would or could keep the prices higher than they should be or could be.

Believe me I am a defender of the oil industry and never complain about the oil companies and the usual criticisms that people commonly have to say about the oil industry, as I have been involved in the industry since 1980.

Meantime I am adamant that the slow fall in the price of refined petroleum products, here in Thailand ( not other countries ) is by way of the industry and the regulators of that industry maintaining the higher prices and not allowing them to free fall as could happen if there was a truly competitive market.

That is my take on why the retail fuel prices do not reflect the current 40% drop in crude oil prices.

Cheers

You wrote, "Anyhow the prices here are not following as closely as the prices do in the North American markets and I am certain the government is intervening to keep the prices up higher than they would be if they followed the same trend in other countries."

Higher taxes mean government manipulation. Thailand's government is not manipulating prices as can be demonstrated by the number of countries above.

If you have any evidence to the contrary feel free to post it.

Nope, no evidence that would convince you, as you are totally adamant and feel certain there is nothing at all going on behind closed doors.

I think differently.

You view the situation the way you want while I have a different idea about why the prices are not declining as fast as they could relative to the 40% drop in crude oil prices.

Cheers

[gemguy]

Thailand oil price setting info:

http://thainews.prd.go.th/centerweb/newsen/NewsDetail?NT01_NewsID=WNECO5711270010009

http://esso.listedcompany.com/faq.html

Thank you for the valuable information.

Some aspects of what is said in the 2 articles is what I have been trying to explain to people for years ..but of course when it is written by a journalist and or seen in industry related periodicals then people tend to believe such publications ...but when someone tells them, person to person, they tend to think it is just more BS in defense of the oil industry that so many people love to loathe.

The first link tells me what I believe is happening...that being, the government authorities and regulators and the players in the industry do have the ability to regulate the prices ......as they see fit....and that includes slowly reducing the prices while also trying to account for the lose of revenues if the prices fall further and reflect the current crude oil prices.

This is what is said in the article:

Mr. Areepong further added that it would be a good opportunity now for Thailand to allow gas prices to fluctuate according to the market trend. The Energy Policy and Planning Office will only intervene when the fluctuation becomes too radical.

I read that as follows: They are controlling the decline in the prices rather than let the prices fall to where they may fall in a truly competitive market place.

I can understand why they would want to do that as there are a lot of considerations to be taken into account rather than just appeasing the consumers with the most competitive price.

We are talking about the loss of very large and significant revenues that the government can ill afford to lose...certainly in a relatively fast amount of time in the last 6 months of the 40% decline in the prices of crude oil.

Cheers

Edited December 10, 2014 by gemguy

[thailiketoo]

[chiang mai]

+1

[Soutpeel]

Thailand oil price setting info:

http://thainews.prd.go.th/centerweb/newsen/NewsDetail?NT01_NewsID=WNECO5711270010009

http://esso.listedcompany.com/faq.html

Thank you for the valuable information.

Some aspects of what is said in the 2 articles is what I have been trying to explain to people for years ..but of course when it is written by a journalist and or seen in industry related periodicals then people tend to believe such publications ...but when someone tells them, person to person, they tend to think it is just more BS in defense of the oil industry that so many people love to loathe.

The first link tells me what I believe is happening...that being, the government authorities and regulators and the players in the industry do have the ability to regulate the prices ......as they see fit....and that includes slowly reducing the prices while also trying to account for the lose of revenues if the prices fall further and reflect the current crude oil prices.

This is what is said in the article:

Mr. Areepong further added that it would be a good opportunity now for Thailand to allow gas prices to fluctuate according to the market trend. The Energy Policy and Planning Office will only intervene when the fluctuation becomes too radical.

I read that as follows: They are controlling the decline in the prices rather than let the prices fall to where they may fall in a truly competitive market place.

I can understand why they would want to do that as there are a lot of considerations to be taken into account rather than just appeasing the consumers with the most competitive price.

We are talking about the loss of very large and significant revenues that the government can ill afford to lose...certainly in a relatively fast amount of time in the last 6 months of the 40% decline in the prices of crude oil.

Cheers

Why are you still banging on about this ? Your trying to prove something, which is already proven - key words , oil fund, replenish , slow reduction in prices, sound fiscal policy

Why you keep writing dissertations ?

[meand]

I remember when gas skyrocketed the price of gas in thailand was relatively stable. If u ask me everything in thailand is the same. A group of Thais get together, set the price of things and that is it for all intents and purposes. They have set their obscene profit margins and there is nothing the outside world could ever do about it. <deleted>

[thailiketoo]

I remember when gas skyrocketed the price of gas in thailand was relatively stable. If u ask me everything in thailand is the same. A group of Thais get together, set the price of things and that is it for all intents and purposes. They have set their obscene profit margins and there is nothing the outside world could ever do about it. Not bad for a bunch of banana gabbing monkeys.

Thailand is 47th country from the top in expensive petrol prices. The price of petrol in Thailand http://thainews.prd.go.th/centerweb/newsen/NewsDetail?NT01_NewsID=WNECO5711270010009

The price of fuel in Thailand has been completely done in this thread. I suggest reading the complete thread with special attention paid to the posts dealing with the Thai Oil Replenishment Fund.

I don't know who you mean with your reference of, "banana gabbing monkeys." Surly not Thai people. Maybe some obscure reference to wildlife that escapes me.

[PPEist]

Instead of subsiding oil prices the govt should float the price - as they should for all the other price controls they're currently doing - and subsidise electric cars and hybrids instead. It will achieve the same effect of spending govt money to reduce household consumption but it will punish those companies and persons who do not conserve fuel. Price controls are pretty archaic because they create bad incentives and they don't fix the problem at the root.

[thailiketoo]

Instead of subsiding oil prices the govt should float the price - as they should for all the other price controls they're currently doing - and subsidise electric cars and hybrids instead. It will achieve the same effect of spending govt money to reduce household consumption but it will punish those companies and persons who do not conserve fuel. Price controls are pretty archaic because they create bad incentives and they don't fix the problem at the root.

I don't think subsiding is the right word. Stabilization would be more appropriate. Perhaps you could read the paper below and point out where it is subsidizing because I couldn't find it.

http://rc.nida.ac.th/th/attachments/article/177/oil%20fund_final_thiraphong.pdf

[DaffyDuck]

Gas and oil are scarce commodities which are rapidly running out. They are also full of harmful pollutants which are destroying the Earth's ecology and human health. Double the tax on fuel for private vehicles, pro rata, across the globe and tell the able bodied to walk, get a bicycle. We'd save the planet, countless lives and billions in health costs.

They are not running out ,finding more all the time ,as for walking or taking your bike ,i used to work 20 miles from where i worked ,what do you suggest ,walking or cycling to work every day ? i think my lycra shorts would have worn out quickly . i just love people like you ,what planet do you live on ,and do you live in a yurt" by the way when you came to Thailand did you walk or cycle here?

I love these treehuggers, and how easy their arguments go down in flames. Yeah, I bet he swam across the pond to Thailand. ;-)

[DaffyDuck]

Instead of subsiding oil prices the govt should float the price - as they should for all the other price controls they're currently doing - and subsidise electric cars and hybrids instead.

Electric cars and hybrids? In Thailand?? Hold on, let me stop laughing.

Seriously, maybe you should make a trip to Thailand, or two, before you continue.

[chiang mai]

Instead of subsiding oil prices the govt should float the price - as they should for all the other price controls they're currently doing - and subsidise electric cars and hybrids instead.

Electric cars and hybrids? In Thailand?? Hold on, let me stop laughing.

Seriously, maybe you should make a trip to Thailand, or two, before you continue.

Or perhaps you should since there are loads of hybrids on the roads in Thailand.

[chiang mai]

Instead of subsiding oil prices the govt should float the price - as they should for all the other price controls they're currently doing - and subsidise electric cars and hybrids instead. It will achieve the same effect of spending govt money to reduce household consumption but it will punish those companies and persons who do not conserve fuel. Price controls are pretty archaic because they create bad incentives and they don't fix the problem at the root.

I don't think subsiding is the right word. Stabilization would be more appropriate. Perhaps you could read the paper below and point out where it is subsidizing because I couldn't find it.

http://rc.nida.ac.th/th/attachments/article/177/oil%20fund_final_thiraphong.pdf

Exactly! The fact that the Thai government provides pump price stability over the longer term should not be confused with subsidies.

[thailiketoo]

Instead of subsiding oil prices the govt should float the price - as they should for all the other price controls they're currently doing - and subsidise electric cars and hybrids instead.

Electric cars and hybrids? In Thailand?? Hold on, let me stop laughing.

Seriously, maybe you should make a trip to Thailand, or two, before you continue.

19,000 2012. 20,000 plus 2013. 2014 I don't know.

[DaffyDuck]

Out of how many total cars sold?

Which brand?

Context matters.

[DaffyDuck]

Oh never mind:

http://www.autocarpro.in/opinion-column/hybrid-vehicles-bumpy-road-thailand-4187

...expect sales to surpass 20,000 units. Despite such strong and stable growth, this volume is miniscule in a country where 1.2 million light vehicles are projected to be sold this year. The hybrid vehicle sector thus accounts for only 1 percent share of the entire domestic market (or 3 percent of passenger vehicle volumes)

So, I will continue my smirk and my laughter.

Hybrid vehicles face a bumpy road in Thailand

Since Toyota began producing and selling the first hybrid model in Thailand – the Camry – three years earlier, sales of hybrid cars in the kingdom have reached close to 19,000 in 2012. Sales have been growing at an average rate of almost 60 percent over this span, and there are at least four hybrid models being sold in the market today.

This year, we expect sales to surpass 20,000 units. Despite such strong and stable growth, this volume is miniscule in a country where 1.2 million light vehicles are projected to be sold this year. The hybrid vehicle sector thus accounts for only 1 percent share of the entire domestic market (or 3 percent of passenger vehicle volumes).

This is nothing compared to 18 percent share of hybrids in Japan, the home market of key OEMs in Thailand. To be fair, the ratio in Malaysia, a key competitor for regional production of hybrid vehicles, was at 2 percent on sales of 15,000 last year. At the moment, we expect sales of hybrid cars in Thailand (although they will gradually expand) to be under 5 percent of passenger vehicle sales in the foreseeable future. Our projection for sales in 2020 is slightly over 30,000.

In comparison, hybrid vehicle sales in Malaysia are likely to touch just below 50,000 by 2020, accounting for almost 10 percent of its passenger vehicle market. To be sure, Thailand faces a few challenges to expand the market for hybrid vehicles. One obstacle relates to the structure of the market: pickup trucks still form a majority of the sales, but hybrid technology is mostly adopted in passenger vehicles – which made up of less than half the market versus more than 65 percent in Malaysia.

Thus without structural change arising from government policies, it would be very difficult for Thailand’s automotive market to vastly adopt hybrids or electric vehicles. Another limitation to the growth of hybrids in Thailand comes from pricing. It is in fact more economical to use traditional cars than hybrids.

This was explained in a recent study by King Mongkut’s University of Technology Thonburi: it estimated in the current market mechanism, it is Bt52,000-133,000 (about Rs 1.08-2.44 lakh) cheaper to use an internal combustion engine for eight years than using any electric car.

Yet another calculation by Bangkok Post’s motoring news editor Richard Leu suggested that the benefits of fuel efficiency of the newly launched Honda Civic Hybrid only “come after 140,000km of driving”.

A further investigation shows prices of hybrids in Thailand are also comparatively higher than prices in other countries. For example, while the Jazz Hybrid sold in Japan costs only $19,000 (Rs 10.3 lakh), it is priced around $26,000 (Rs 14.11 lakh) in Thailand. In Malaysia, although the price is higher than that of Thailand at around $29,000 (Rs 15.73 lakh), it is cheaper than the normal Jazz by 10 percent. In other words, hybrids are being sold in Thailand based on their ‘premium’ image, rather than their economic value.

The newly approved ‘CO2 emission-based automotive taxation’ scheduled to become effective from 2016 is likely to further compound the problem. Under the plan, three out of four key hybrid models will be taxed more at 20 percent – doubling from the existing preferential 10 percent tax rate.

Taking current prices as a base, the price of Toyota Camry Hybrid should rise by a minimum Bt200,000 ($7,000/Rs 3.8 lakh). Premium hybrid cars with larger than 3.0-litre engines will, of course, continue to pay 50 percent excise tax.

Meanwhile, the bracket for pickup trucks remains at the lowest 3 percent. We therefore believe the hybrid road in Thailand is filled with potholes and speed bumps. For hybrid and electric vehicles to have any decent market share, these potholes would have to be filled and speed bumps removed.

[thailiketoo]

The above poster wrote, "Electric cars and hybrids? In Thailand?? Hold on, let me stop laughing.

Seriously, maybe you should make a trip to Thailand, or two, before you continue."

There are 4 hybrids on my soi out of about 30 autos. I live in Thailand. I don't see a lot of electric or hybrids because the price of fuel is not taxed much or controlled by the government but I see a few.

[mitsubishi]

Everything in Thailand is overpriced compared with America.

Indices Difference Consumer Prices in Thailand are 39.26% lower than in United States

Consumer Prices Including Rent in Thailand are 43.21% lower than in United States

Rent Prices in Thailand are 51.90% lower than in United States

Restaurant Prices in Thailand are 63.62% lower than in United States

Groceries Prices in Thailand are 36.31% lower than in United States

Rent Per Month Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre US 1,026.82 $ TH 414.97 $ -59.59 %

Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre US 774.32 $ TH 220.69 $ -71.50 %

Apartment (3 bedrooms) in City Centre US 1,735.29 $ TH 1,131.83 $ -34.78 %

Apartment (3 bedrooms) Outside of Centre US 1,306.38 $ TH 561.94 $ -56.98 %

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=Thailand

This is the problem with someone trying to develop a website to compare any city in the world versus any other city in the world. They never visit, they never price items, they select a formula that they think may be close, or not. I have seen similar sites stating they can tell you what a 3 bedroom home costs in each city in the US. Having worked in Real Estate for 12 years, this can not be done by any measure of accuracy. The numbers posted for Pattaya, or even Thailand for that matter, are totally wrong in every aspect. They haven't a clue on prices here, unless you live in a small village without running water. Certainly if you live here, you can walk around, look at prices here, and come to the same conclusion that this is hogwash.

I lived in the USA for 50 years and Thailand for 20 years. The numbers above are correct.

I've lived in both countries and apart from eating out and sometimes rent, the numbers are way off. Once you enter the fly-over states Thailand is often similar in price, especially with all it's taxes on top.

[thailiketoo]

I lived in the USA for 50 years and Thailand for 20 years. The numbers above are correct.

I've lived in both countries and apart from eating out and sometimes rent, the numbers are way off. Once you enter the fly-over states Thailand is often similar in price, especially with all it's taxes on top.

The biggest number is always housing. Thailand has cheaper housing when comparing like locations USA and Thailand. Bangkok to NYC. We always go through the same discussions. First you disagree then when actual comparisons are made it comes down to quality and the quality is always better in the USA. However this topic is gas prices. Thailand has more expensive fuel because the price is leveled out over time. I can only speak from personal experience and say my taxi fares have stayed the same for 5 years and my motor scooter gets 120 miles to the gal so I don't really use much gas. There are many comparison sites on the web and I've never one that said Thailand is more expensive than the USA.

Edited December 18, 2014 by thailiketoo