Myanmar men plead not guilty to murder of British tourists on Koh Tao

[Gonzo the Face]

Thailand knows Burma cannot fight back diplomatically, that's why they are pushing case rapidly. Only solution is all Burmese labors should leave Thailand immediately for 3 months, so that all resorts and hotels should close down during the high season.

Very good idea. If they only did this

Couple of great , well thought out ideas,,, (not)..... Put forth by people that apparently have no problems providing dinner for their families tonight.

Poster , you suggest that all Burmese worker leave for 3 months..... and that would fix Thailand good..... Have you ever thought that without them being here just perhaps they and or their families would not be eating tonight or for the foreseeable future??? These people have to fight and go thru extreme hoops to be able to get and/or stay here. they go thru that because back home they have nothing...... and you say they should just leave Thailand for 3 months>>>> well at least you got a up in the post count...

[Peung]

The two poor boys are from Rakhine State in NW Myanmar and so can be called Myanmar workers, as they are Myanmar nationals.

Ethnically they are Arakanese. (They do not look like Bengalis) and they speak Arakanese.

Myanmar is now the correct name of this country as it reflects the breadth of ethnic diversity more than the name Burmese, (representing a single tribe; Burman) does. One day the Brits and the US will have to accept this.

A common misuse of the word Myanmar is using it as the name for the national language. i.e. I speak Myanmar. Thats like saying, 'I speak Thailand'. The national language of Myanmar is Burmese.

KOH SAMUI: -- Two Myanmar workers……

I know that people from Burma are Burmese and that Burma is now Myanmar. But I don’t like the phrase Two Myanmar workers that continually appears in the press. So what can they be? Does Myanmarese work? Or Myanmarian? Myanmarish?

Anything else work?

Two Myanmar workers – don’t like it – am over it.

What?

Two Brits; two British men; Two Americans; two Yanks, Two frogs; Two French men; and so forth.

What is wrong with two Myanmar workers? You prefer Myanmese workers, or Burmese workers?

Myanmarian? Myanmarish? Jeez, you must go through some kebabs, or smoke them.

[manutoo]

http://time.com/3617617/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-indictment/

Scotland Yard spent only two hours on Koh Tao and did not meet with either the accused or their legal team.....Wow!! Great job Sherlock, then again what else could you have done? You were only there to observe the powerful and convincing evidence of the RTP. No wonder the family statement says the evidence APPEARS to be powerful and convincing.

I say it one more time, I will never believe in a million years the B2 are guilty unless I have seen independently (non-thai) verified DNA (if that is/was still possible). Nothing can change my mind, and definitively not a million posts from JD praising the RTP.

This case stinks too high heaven! So Sherlock, to end all this show the world your DNA findings! Just say you did independently verify the DNA from the repatriated bodies against fresh B2 samples and you will publish the result in due time. The fact that you didn't even meet them says it all.........you did not check the DNA, you accepted the RTP results. The B2 deserve better and so do their families!

.

Thanks to have posted this link.

This answered a question I had in the past days :

Under Thai law, the 900-page police report, upon which the prosecutors will base their case, will not be disclosed to the defense team until the trial commences

This means they had to plead guilty or not guilty, and thus take the risk of the death penalty, without knowing what the prosecutors really have against them. When we recall the several claims we read in the past days of the "solid evidences" in the case, without forgetting the timely UK family statements, all of this feels a lot more like a poker game than Justice...

Can't believe we have in these forums a few RTP fanboys supporting at length all this sore excuse for Justice.

[lildragon]

I want to spit out that humble pie I ate. I cannot fathom that these two, acting alone, killed David and Hannah. They may of had some involvement (well, being ordered to be involved) and told that they would be protected.

Evidence tampered with to make it look that way. Let's see how it unfolds in court.

[Sviss Geez]

It's really too bad that foreigners being held on crimes they allegedly committed in Thailand cannot be held in a facility for foreigners only, and away from the native population. Furthermore, it would be a requirement that the prison personnel would also be foreigners looking over them with Thai supervision, in order to ensure their incarceration time is represented according to the International human rights code. It is really too bad, because it is not a stretch of the imagination to understand that as long as foreigners are going to be anywhere near the Thai prison population that their lives are forfeit, and for a very small price, and at any whim. I believe this with absolute conviction.

Were this true, that these men could be held in a foreigner's only prison block, then I would be interested to see if they would be more apt to name names and things that were said to them, which... to all intents and purposes, I am absolutely convinced if they utter this information they are as good as dead.

I could only surmise this as the only answer to my question, "If these boys know something (and I am certain they do) then why on Earth aren't they telling us what they know?".

Answer: If they speak out of turn, they are as good as dead, and their untimely demise will be buried under the same load of malarkey that the two murdered kids were.

Thailand has tourist police... so why can't they demonstrate their sense of fairness and have tourist prisons and tourist guards?

Answer: Don;t need to answer. It is all too clear.

"It's really too bad that foreigners being held on crimes they allegedly committed in Thailand cannot be held in a facility for foreigners only, and away from the native population. Furthermore, it would be a requirement that the prison personnel would also be foreigners looking over them..."

"...why can't they demonstrate their sense of fairness and have tourist prisons and tourist guards?"

You mean just like every other country does for foreign prisoners?

[Sviss Geez]

The two poor boys are from Rakhine State in NW Myanmar and so can be called Myanmar workers, as they are Myanmar nationals.

There are no "poor boys" involved in this case, there are two adult men who have been charged with murder.

[jacky54]

That move is equivalent to signing their death warrants. The evidence against them is overwhelming. Their lawyers play with their lives.

That's right they were in the general area and are Burmese who passed the first DNA test, clearly 'overwhelming'.Unless somebody has taken up the cops offer of 13k again to lie as a witness the evidence is circumstantial at best.

[yellowboat]

That move is equivalent to signing their death warrants. The evidence against them is overwhelming. Their lawyers play with their lives.

Everything about this case is questionable; missing security camera files, not sealing off the crime scene, the prosecutor rejecting the file two times and the unelected PM's statement how this sort of crime could not be perpetrated by a Thai . How is the case overwhelming ? Not saying they did not do it. Saying there is nothing but uncertainty.

Edited December 8, 2014 by yellowboat

[jdinasia]

Good on them, this puts the onus firmly on the prosecution to show all their evidence and to support it (in theory of course)

With all the uncertainty surrounding the case it is good to see that the Burmese chaps will get to put across their side of the story and that their team of lawyers can put some skillful defence / scrutiny on it.

Also with the Burmese embassy / government behind their citizens they have some extra clout. I hope ths pushes the case towards a fair and just conclusion. Face hasn't won yet.. A huge plus

I very much agree with everything you wrote except the Burmese embassy having any relevance to the trial.

[jdinasia]

It's really too bad that foreigners being held on crimes they allegedly committed in Thailand cannot be held in a facility for foreigners only, and away from the native population. Furthermore, it would be a requirement that the prison personnel would also be foreigners looking over them with Thai supervision, in order to ensure their incarceration time is represented according to the International human rights code. It is really too bad, because it is not a stretch of the imagination to understand that as long as foreigners are going to be anywhere near the Thai prison population that their lives are forfeit, and for a very small price, and at any whim. I believe this with absolute conviction.

Were this true, that these men could be held in a foreigner's only prison block, then I would be interested to see if they would be more apt to name names and things that were said to them, which... to all intents and purposes, I am absolutely convinced if they utter this information they are as good as dead.

I could only surmise this as the only answer to my question, "If these boys know something (and I am certain they do) then why on Earth aren't they telling us what they know?".

Answer: If they speak out of turn, they are as good as dead, and their untimely demise will be buried under the same load of malarkey that the two murdered kids were.

Thailand has tourist police... so why can't they demonstrate their sense of fairness and have tourist prisons and tourist guards?

Answer: Don;t need to answer. It is all too clear.

That has to be the strangest post I have read on TVF.

What country in the world has prisons (for criminal not immigration charges) only for foreigners? What country employs foreigners to guard foreigners?

[sweatalot]

Myanmar migrant workers deny murdering Brits at Thai resort

Bangkok, Thailand | AFP |

KOH SAMUI: -- Two Myanmar migrant workers on Monday pleaded not guilty to murdering a pair of British holidaymakers at a Thai diving resort, their lawyer told AFP.

Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun are on trial for the murder of 24-year-old David Miller and the rape and murder of Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the island of Koh Tao in September.

"They both denied all charges," the head of their legal team, Nakhon Chomphuchat, told AFP after the first hearing in their trial at a court on nearby Koh Samui.

The pair face several charges including murder, rape and robbery, he added.

Last week Nakhon said defence witnesses had refused to come forward because they were too scared to speak up on behalf of low-status migrant workers in a case which has garnered global attention.

The defendants, both aged 21, confessed to the crimes after their arrest in October but later retracted the admission of guilt, alleging it had been extracted under duress.

Rights groups have accused Thai authorities of using the men as scapegoats.

In November British detectives travelled to Thailand to review the police investigation into the murders after widespread criticism of blunders including allowing reporters to trample over the crime scene.

On Saturday the victims' families said they had seen strong evidence against the suspects and expressed confidence in the case.

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us," Witheridge's family said in a statement released through Britain's Foreign Office.

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

Miller's family meanwhile urged restraint from rights groups and the media while the court case unfolds.

"The support for the Myanmar suspects has been strong and vocal, but please do not jump to conclusions until you have considered the evidence from both sides in full," Miller's family said in its statement.

The brutal murders further damaged Thailand's image as a tourist haven after months of political protests led to an army coup in May and the imposition of martial law.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2014-12-08

"The brutal murders further damaged Thailand's image as a tourist haven after months of political protests led to an army coup in May and the imposition of martial law."

I am sick and tired of this last nonsensical sentence.

Why don'tthe write

.... damaged Thailand's image ... after the corruption and incapabilty of the former government led to a situation which made a coupe appear the only solution...

Edited December 8, 2014 by sweatalot

[jdinasia]

I want to spit out that humble pie I ate. I cannot fathom that these two, acting alone, killed David and Hannah. They may of had some involvement (well, being ordered to be involved) and told that they would be protected.

Evidence tampered with to make it look that way. Let's see how it unfolds in court.

So, back to the conspiracy theories, I see.

[StealthEnergiser]

Men accused of Koh Tao murders plead not guilty

KOH SAMUI: -- Koh Tao murder defendants Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo (Win) have plead not guilty to all charges against them including conspiracy to commit murder, rape and illegal entry to Thailand. A report in Reuters states “Thanu Akekachote, a lawyer representing the pair, told Reuters. “It is my understanding that the court wants to speed this up given its impact on tourism and international relations.”

It has also been reported that the court are now awaiting documents from the UK government to see if the parents of the victims will jointly enter the prosecution or not. The Samui court also made a preliminary appointment for considering evidence Koh Tao case documents on 25th February 2015.

-- Samui Times 2014-12-08

@atomicalandy

IMPORTANT: Koh Samui court PM session suddenly changes preliminary appointment for considering Koh Tao case evidence 25th Feb to 26th Dec.

[lildragon]

I want to spit out that humble pie I ate. I cannot fathom that these two, acting alone, killed David and Hannah. They may of had some involvement (well, being ordered to be involved) and told that they would be protected.

Evidence tampered with to make it look that way. Let's see how it unfolds in court.

So, back to the conspiracy theories, I see.

Even if you're not a 'conspiracy theorist' you'd know that in most places in the world that this would be a mistrial. People trampling all over the crime scene, peices of evidence being planted, suspects beaten... it's a farce.

[Monkeysee]

Justice is hard to come by in any developing country.

[sweatalot]

That move is equivalent to signing their death warrants. The evidence against them is overwhelming. Their lawyers play with their lives.

So how do you know the evidence against them is overwhelming?

And if so - how do you know it's evidence and not fairy tale?

[siampolee]

"They pleaded not guilty to all the charges today," Thanu Akekachote, a lawyer representing the pair, told Reuters. "It is my understanding that the court wants to speed this up given its impact on tourism and international relations."

There above in that statement we see the true facts, money and face to hell with justice on the the part ot the prosecution

[sweatalot]

I can see Thailand is in deep dodo regardless of the result.

guilty=shame on Thailand, shame on the police and their justice.

not guilty= everybody laugh at Thailand.

And given those two choices, which one do you think Thailand will choose?

Do you think Thailand understands the choices?

[mojorison]

Thailand knows Burma cannot fight back diplomatically, that's why they are pushing case rapidly. Only solution is all Burmese labors should leave Thailand immediately for 3 months, so that all resorts and hotels should close down during the high season.

Actually if Burma was that way inclined they could cause serious economic mayhem in Thailand by f#kcing with Thailand's gas supply, so Burma can fight Thailand if so inclined, not that this will happen

Agreed, Burma holds many cards over Thailand. Energy is one, perception is another. Thailand only stands to go further into the mire with this one.

[fish fingers]

well, either there's a substantial piece of evidence to show these two did it, which i doubt

or the Families have been suckered into believing the police version somehow

But my view is too much points to involvement of others in this case. The only way we will find out is either friends of the couple coming forward or other people being allowed to testify i.e. the students who witnessed scratches on the body or face of the son of the mafia family etc

Lets just wait until the 'full facts' come out

[sweatalot]

The two poor boys are from Rakhine State in NW Myanmar and so can be called Myanmar workers, as they are Myanmar nationals.

There are no "poor boys" involved in this case, there are two adult men who have been charged with murder.

... while it seems very unlikely that they are.

[greenchair]

How can they possibly plead not guilty to the charge of illegal entry? They are ILLEGAL migrant workers, aren't they? Is their lawyer on yaba too?

I thought that was strange too.

[oldsailor35]

Myanmar men accused of killing British tourists deny charges

By Digital Content

SURAT THANI, Dec 8 -- Both suspects in the case of the murdered British tourists on Ko Tao deny charges in court here today.

Judge Sunawin Suriyaphan, deputy chief of the Ko Samui Court in Surat Thani province, read the charges against the two Myanmar men accused of killing two British tourists on Surat Thani's Ko Tao island Sept 15.

Public prosecutors from Ko Samui pressed charges against Wai Phyo and Zaw Lin, both 21.

Wai Phyo was also charged with stealing a cell phone and sunglasses from one of the dead.

After hearing the charges, the defendants consulted with their lawyer and then denied all charges.

The judge set Feb 25, 2015 for examination of evidence and witnesses.

Tun Aye, Myanmar charge d’affaires to Thailand, said the Myanmar embassy sought the temporary release of both men and promised to keep them in Thailand. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2014-12-08

Did they find the Myanmar's fingerprints all over the phone, i have heard nothing of this yet ?

[johnnytuc]

i felt Krehjat post was a blast of fresh air, and that JDN asia has just got to be a plant........ I have been there albeit on a much smaller trumped up charge but was still facing a custodial sentence from lawyers to prosecutors it was just a money making scam, indeed the thai making the accusations against me had several cases going through the courts against falangs at the same time!! After over a year of trying to get justice on the advice of thais and falangs I paid the money to the prosecutor thrrough the lawyer, the police, accuser , prosecutor all got a share. Why do I stay in Thailand you will ask, well this is my home, and the support I got from a few Thais and my falangs friends both financially was heart warming.

But the saddest thing is though the B2 may well be guilty and would therefor deserve their fate, I will never be convinced that in this sick corrupt society that the baht will ever be second place to justice.

All I can say that at this time my thoughts are with the families of David and Hannah as this terrible ordeal continues for them, God bless them.

[chotthee]

Of course they plead not guilty.

But they are, and Thai court will nail them.

[DaveE13]

Chottee. you seen the evidence already?? <deleted>!

[canuckamuck]

At least they didn't just roll over and take it. Good for them. Hope the trial is fair.

[oldsailor35]

I want to spit out that humble pie I ate. I cannot fathom that these two, acting alone, killed David and Hannah. They may of had some involvement (well, being ordered to be involved) and told that they would be protected.

Evidence tampered with to make it look that way. Let's see how it unfolds in court.

So, back to the conspiracy theories, I see.

Exactly who's fingerprints were on the murder weapon, because somebody had to have held it ?

[LuckyLew]

Thailand knows Burma cannot fight back diplomatically, that's why they are pushing case rapidly. Only solution is all Burmese labors should leave Thailand immediately for 3 months, so that all resorts and hotels should close down during the high season.

That is actually a god idea, would leave a lot of Thai organizations in a spot of trouble, but what would the Burmese do for three months with no income?

Think being charged with illegal entry is a little over the top.

If they are innocent, sure hope it gets proven and they get released with a full apology and compensation

[oldsailor35]

With a bit of luck and a few milliom Bht., they might get a few hours community work like the rich little lady who killed 9 people in a mini bus last year !