Immigration office is officially broken..

[OneZero]

The real issue here, and one that someone on the forum might have the "in" to address is: How to actually make things better?

Obviously, the folks working there are all just worker drones; they do not set policy nor do they have the power to reorganize in an attempt to streamline the system (even though doing so would ultimately make their jobs easier).

Someone from the foreigner masses needs to put the evidence together with reasonable solutions and present this to whomever is in the right power slot to actually make some changes. I don't know who that person is or how to uncover this, but I suspect someone out there does.

It is worthwhile to make complaints, but more so to outline what should be done (at least for now) to make operations better for everyone.

Who among you has the connections and commitment to take on this challenge?

Quote: ".....to outline what should be done (at least for now) to make operations better for everyone. "

Just do what has been done at Pattaya Jomtien Immigration. I can't see how they could not already know what should be done, with that shining benchmark.

CM is certainly not an example of Quality Management procedures is it. There are perhaps some procedural fixes that could ease the burden in CM while resources for a major facility, personnel and organization overhaul are provided. Bangkok certainly does not seem to sense any urgency in providing relief do they.

[LivinLOS]

Can you do 90 day report across from Promenada?

No despite a huge 90 day reporting sign.. You cant !!

I think promenada is for the migrant workers only now, with the exception of residency letters.

[LivinLOS]

No 14 days out will definitely not work. Not by mail. Not in person. You'll have to pay a fine. Sorry. Better buck up and plan to spend the time at the Immigration Office on Thursday. The "grace period" is 7 days out for in person reporting.

14 days before.. 7 days after..

[LivinLOS]

As you are planning to travel overseas urgently you would not need to do a 90 day report if within the time, 15 days before 7 days after due date?

And you can get your reentry at the airport.

Don't know if anyone has replied to this yet but there is no longer a grace period. If you're even 1 day late, they charge you.

The woman in CNX told me the exact opposite on Monday.. As the afternoon wore on I went and said I am on the day, I might not get seen today and she told me.. up to 7 days after the date no fine.. Also leaving by a border up to 7 days.. Day 8.. 2000b.

[LivinLOS]

You went yesterday, Monday?

Yes this was yesterday.. I know mondays are bad, but a changing plan meant I didnt have the luxury of choice...

Strange ! i also went yesterday for my 90 day, I got there at 1pm and was given no.638 with the current no being 574 or 584, out by 3.15pm.

Friend of mine got there at 10.30 for a 90 day report, told to come back in the afternoon and was out by approx 1.30pm.

Odd I was there a good hour before lunch and my number (from memory but posted before I think) was 679.. i was probably in the last 3 or 4 people before 4:30..

[LivinLOS]

I went to Promenada Office for Residency Letter last week. 33 Days for the "free" one.

Wow ! 33 days

Thanks for the warning. I guess if needed I will continue to

pay the exorbitant fee at my consulate

Its only 33 days to encourage you to pay the 500b next day processing fee..

The form is of course free.. next day processing is 500b

[alfieconn]

You went yesterday, Monday?

Yes this was yesterday.. I know mondays are bad, but a changing plan meant I didnt have the luxury of choice...

Strange ! i also went yesterday for my 90 day, I got there at 1pm and was given no.638 with the current no being 574 or 584, out by 3.15pm.

Friend of mine got there at 10.30 for a 90 day report, told to come back in the afternoon and was out by approx 1.30pm.

Sorry that should have been Monday !

[LivinLOS]

The seven day "grace period" for filing after your due date without a fine is for filing in person. After that, you'll have to file in person, pay a fine and get a receipt. There is no "7 day grace period" after the due date if you think you can leave the country with an overdue 90 day report or mail-in a 90 day report.

I don't really see how this is so confusing.

Because CNX immigration officer categorically told me that they allow 7 days grace leaving the country on a 90 day report.. 8th day pay 2000b..

I explained would be leaving Nan Laos border, she calculated what day I expected that to be, to see if there would be a fine or let off. This was all questioned as I didnt expect to be able to report in person with it so busy.

[Dante99]

You went yesterday, Monday?

Yes this was yesterday.. I know mondays are bad, but a changing plan meant I didnt have the luxury of choice...

Strange ! i also went yesterday for my 90 day, I got there at 1pm and was given no.638 with the current no being 574 or 584, out by 3.15pm.

Friend of mine got there at 10.30 for a 90 day report, told to come back in the afternoon and was out by approx 1.30pm.

Not really strange, there are a lot of folks posting here who have issues that most others do not encounter. Sometimes it is their bad kharma, sometimes they are just full of it.

[uptheos]

What happened to the online petition that the Chief Immigration Officer asked foreigners to petition for better working conditions for CMI staff, it must be well over a year ago, maybe nearer two.

I wonder how many actually had the balls to sign it and wonder if the head in Bangkok is up off the floor from laughing yet?

Would be nice to know whatever happened to that great scheme though.

[LivinLOS]

The real issue here, and one that someone on the forum might have the "in" to address is: How to actually make things better?

Allocate a greater amount of officers to the queue system for extensions.. The same amount of people get seen, but people have more narrow time slots waiting.

Allow 90 day reports at promenada.. Its a trivial task, a single officer can do many per day.. Theres loads of room there.. Whats not to do ?? Far less people at the current office.

Streamline the queuing system in a better way.. So many ways this could be done..

Have a stack of 100 cards in a rack put out the night before.. In the early am the early people get the first numbers.. these convert into queue positions without a scrum.. Fair is fair..

Unseen queue positions in the previous day get a take home queue card for the next morning.

Similarly people coming and getting a queue spot that will obviously not be fulfilled (any afternoon extension or re-entry these days) could get a 2nd tier version.

Rolling the queue counter overnight instead of resetting in the morning effectively.

Every bank in the country can have a little menu computer that prints queue slips.. But immigration, with all those fees and income, are still using handwritten paper numbers, ratty plastic cards, etc etc.. Its pretty basic to improve..

Overall its simply the 'too many customers, too much work, for too small a space'.. We know a newer larger place is happening in the next couple of years so start the expansion now.. The promenda section seems barely staffed and mostly empty.. Why cant they shift out (employ more) officers to process tourist extensions.. the 30 day on 30 and 60 days.. The 7 on 90s.. The simple ones that need no superior officer oversight out to there.. Re-entry permits are similarly low difficulty tasks.. Get the airport office down to working on only annual long term extensions and questions of complexity and judgement. Getting your annual B or marriage.. Sure that needs going over and an interview.. Want an extra few days on your holiday, thats take a ticket and be have the right copies.

Ohh while I am rolling on it.. Put the damn forms everyone needs outside !!! Theres a queue, to simply ask for the forms.. To fill in and queue up again.. Pure madness...

Then put up a guide for each category of what pages you need copied and what documents to back it up.. Make these large sized posters outside where the forms are. Right now theres a queue, where baffled farangs arrive and say " i need to do X" so she gives them a form, which they fill in and queue again to be told.. Go copy this this and this, with barely an explanation.. The do that and queue.. To have it all checked and either given a number, or told to go get another copy, or the photo, or whatever it is they dont know they were missing.. Put some guides on the walls.. Hell get some of those students doing work experience or volunteer immigration police to help.. But get it outside in the copy shed etc.. Get it so most people walk through the door prepared, informed, ready.. Its not that hard !!

While I am again at it.. How hard would it be for there to be a immigration website, to host the forms digitally, where you key in all your data once, and then could, at home, print your forms, all neatly filled out.. All saved, and all giving them the perfect data entry for a eventual later database and easy ID card.. Log in, tell it what form you want, and press CTRL P.. Job done..

Edited December 10, 2014 by LivinLOS

[hml367]

LivinLOS,

I sent you a PM.

[LivinLOS]

Not really strange, there are a lot of folks posting here who have issues that most others do not encounter. Sometimes it is their bad kharma, sometimes they are just full of it.

Ahh yes, obviously we either are bad people.. Or liars..

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

^^ yeah I got a chuckle out of that also.

Impeccable logic

[quidnunc]

No 14 days out will definitely not work. Not by mail. Not in person. You'll have to pay a fine. Sorry. Better buck up and plan to spend the time at the Immigration Office on Thursday. The "grace period" is 7 days out for in person reporting.

Post #75 indicates this is no longer the case. Perhaps someone can get the "official" answer and post it. This would be an important change if it is indeed a change.

I am not saying one way or the other, but this post and post #75 are directly contradicting.

No they're not conflicting. If you're past the due date for your 90 day report you're going to have to go into the office to file. There are some reports that you can "get away" with mailing it a day or two after the due date (i.e. the 90 day date), but it's not a good idea.

The seven day "grace period" for filing after your due date without a fine is for filing in person. After that, you'll have to file in person, pay a fine and get a receipt. There is no "7 day grace period" after the due date if you think you can leave the country with an overdue 90 day report or mail-in a 90 day report.

I don't really see how this is so confusing.

I can't see how it's confusing either. I showed up one day late at the CM immigration office. I thought it was okay because of the presumed 7 grace period. An immigration officer informed that the there was no longer a 7 day grace period. I had to pay a fine for 1 day. I did get an offical receipt for this. So I doubt there was any chicanery involved.

[LivinLOS]

I can't see how it's confusing either. I showed up one day late at the CM immigration office. I thought it was okay because of the presumed 7 grace period. An immigration officer informed that the there was no longer a 7 day grace period. I had to pay a fine for 1 day. I did get an offical receipt for this. So I doubt there was any chicanery involved.

And on Monday I was told different.. Both border and self reporting 7 days OK..

We have to accept that officer discretion (or ignorance of the actual rule !!) means someone isnt right or wrong when they give these reports.. Its just the officers dont play from the same rulebook.

I firmly believe the rule to be as stated.. 14(or 15??) days before.. 7 days after.. At self reporting and borders. If you get a rogue officer who doesnt stick to that, not much you can do.

[alfieconn]

The real issue here, and one that someone on the forum might have the "in" to address is: How to actually make things better?

While I am again at it.. How hard would it be for there to be a immigration website, to host the forms digitally, where you key in all your data once, and then could, at home, print your forms, all neatly filled out.. All saved, and all giving them the perfect data entry for a eventual later database and easy ID card.. Log in, tell it what form you want, and press CTRL P.. Job done..

There is ! http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=download just fill out all the details the first time and then from then on just change the date, unless something has changed obviously !

Scan the pages in your passport that need to be produced, save them and bobs your uncle.

Edited December 10, 2014 by alfieconn

[LivinLOS]

Yes those sort of work.. In a kind of basic way..

I was more visioning a system that centralized this for immigration.. Getting us to the point where in a few years we can just show them our smartcard or they look up our Immigration number and the data is on the screen in front of them.. Upload a fresh photo per year, etc etc..

The data fields remain in the database and simply get re-arranged for each forms output.. But ultimately we stop needing to output the forms. After all it is the data they need.

But yes.. Your right.. Those are a step that way.

[alfieconn]

Yes those sort of work.. In a kind of basic way..

I was more visioning a system that centralized this for immigration.. Getting us to the point where in a few years we can just show them our smartcard or they look up our Immigration number and the data is on the screen in front of them.. Upload a fresh photo per year, etc etc..

The data fields remain in the database and simply get re-arranged for each forms output.. But ultimately we stop needing to output the forms. After all it is the data they need.

But yes.. Your right.. Those are a step that way.

mistake

Edited December 10, 2014 by alfieconn

[BritManToo]

The real issue here, and one that someone on the forum might have the "in" to address is: How to actually make things better?

Allocate a greater amount of officers to the queue system for extensions.. The same amount of people get seen, but people have more narrow time slots waiting.

Allow 90 day reports at promenada.. Its a trivial task, a single officer can do many per day.. Theres loads of room there.. Whats not to do ?? Far less people at the current office.

Streamline the queuing system in a better way.. So many ways this could be done..

Have a stack of 100 cards in a rack put out the night before.. In the early am the early people get the first numbers.. these convert into queue positions without a scrum.. Fair is fair..

Unseen queue positions in the previous day get a take home queue card for the next morning.

Similarly people coming and getting a queue spot that will obviously not be fulfilled (any afternoon extension or re-entry these days) could get a 2nd tier version.

Rolling the queue counter overnight instead of resetting in the morning effectively.

Every bank in the country can have a little menu computer that prints queue slips.. But immigration, with all those fees and income, are still using handwritten paper numbers, ratty plastic cards, etc etc.. Its pretty basic to improve..

Overall its simply the 'too many customers, too much work, for too small a space'.. We know a newer larger place is happening in the next couple of years so start the expansion now.. The promenda section seems barely staffed and mostly empty.. Why cant they shift out (employ more) officers to process tourist extensions.. the 30 day on 30 and 60 days.. The 7 on 90s.. The simple ones that need no superior officer oversight out to there.. Re-entry permits are similarly low difficulty tasks.. Get the airport office down to working on only annual long term extensions and questions of complexity and judgement. Getting your annual B or marriage.. Sure that needs going over and an interview.. Want an extra few days on your holiday, thats take a ticket and be have the right copies.

Ohh while I am rolling on it.. Put the damn forms everyone needs outside !!! Theres a queue, to simply ask for the forms.. To fill in and queue up again.. Pure madness...

Then put up a guide for each category of what pages you need copied and what documents to back it up.. Make these large sized posters outside where the forms are. Right now theres a queue, where baffled farangs arrive and say " i need to do X" so she gives them a form, which they fill in and queue again to be told.. Go copy this this and this, with barely an explanation.. The do that and queue.. To have it all checked and either given a number, or told to go get another copy, or the photo, or whatever it is they dont know they were missing.. Put some guides on the walls.. Hell get some of those students doing work experience or volunteer immigration police to help.. But get it outside in the copy shed etc.. Get it so most people walk through the door prepared, informed, ready.. Its not that hard !!

While I am again at it.. How hard would it be for there to be a immigration website, to host the forms digitally, where you key in all your data once, and then could, at home, print your forms, all neatly filled out.. All saved, and all giving them the perfect data entry for a eventual later database and easy ID card.. Log in, tell it what form you want, and press CTRL P.. Job done..

All good ideas, except for cards left out, visa agents would take them and sell them.

Part of the problem is immigration want the backhanders from the visa agents, so do all they can to make personal callers unwelcome.

[northernjohn]

There is not really a lot they can do to improve they system here in Chiang Mai. It all has to come from Bangkok. There are a few changes such as making the forms available outside so people coming early can get one and have it filled out. All so on the outside clearly demonstrate what is needed to go along with the form so people can have that ready when they come in. Stop helping people to fill them out. This would greatly increase the amount they could handle. There are forms available on line for those with access to a computer.

In general until Bangkok lets them build a new building and hire adequate staff things are about as good as they are going to get. As I say stop filling in the forms for people would be a great help.

[northernjohn]

The real issue here, and one that someone on the forum might have the "in" to address is: How to actually make things better?

Allocate a greater amount of officers to the queue system for extensions.. The same amount of people get seen, but people have more narrow time slots waiting.

Allow 90 day reports at promenada.. Its a trivial task, a single officer can do many per day.. Theres loads of room there.. Whats not to do ?? Far less people at the current office.

Streamline the queuing system in a better way.. So many ways this could be done..

Have a stack of 100 cards in a rack put out the night before.. In the early am the early people get the first numbers.. these convert into queue positions without a scrum.. Fair is fair..

Unseen queue positions in the previous day get a take home queue card for the next morning.

Similarly people coming and getting a queue spot that will obviously not be fulfilled (any afternoon extension or re-entry these days) could get a 2nd tier version.

Rolling the queue counter overnight instead of resetting in the morning effectively.

Every bank in the country can have a little menu computer that prints queue slips.. But immigration, with all those fees and income, are still using handwritten paper numbers, ratty plastic cards, etc etc.. Its pretty basic to improve..

Overall its simply the 'too many customers, too much work, for too small a space'.. We know a newer larger place is happening in the next couple of years so start the expansion now.. The promenda section seems barely staffed and mostly empty.. Why cant they shift out (employ more) officers to process tourist extensions.. the 30 day on 30 and 60 days.. The 7 on 90s.. The simple ones that need no superior officer oversight out to there.. Re-entry permits are similarly low difficulty tasks.. Get the airport office down to working on only annual long term extensions and questions of complexity and judgement. Getting your annual B or marriage.. Sure that needs going over and an interview.. Want an extra few days on your holiday, thats take a ticket and be have the right copies.

Ohh while I am rolling on it.. Put the damn forms everyone needs outside !!! Theres a queue, to simply ask for the forms.. To fill in and queue up again.. Pure madness...

Then put up a guide for each category of what pages you need copied and what documents to back it up.. Make these large sized posters outside where the forms are. Right now theres a queue, where baffled farangs arrive and say " i need to do X" so she gives them a form, which they fill in and queue again to be told.. Go copy this this and this, with barely an explanation.. The do that and queue.. To have it all checked and either given a number, or told to go get another copy, or the photo, or whatever it is they dont know they were missing.. Put some guides on the walls.. Hell get some of those students doing work experience or volunteer immigration police to help.. But get it outside in the copy shed etc.. Get it so most people walk through the door prepared, informed, ready.. Its not that hard !!

While I am again at it.. How hard would it be for there to be a immigration website, to host the forms digitally, where you key in all your data once, and then could, at home, print your forms, all neatly filled out.. All saved, and all giving them the perfect data entry for a eventual later database and easy ID card.. Log in, tell it what form you want, and press CTRL P.. Job done..

All good ideas, except for cards left out, visa agents would take them and sell them.

Part of the problem is immigration want the backhanders from the visa agents, so do all they can to make personal callers unwelcome.

Have you ever really been to immigration?

[Ianatlarge]

My professional opinion is that the Thai immig system is totally <deleted>. It jumbles along more by luck and by the fact that the staff usually don't implement the rules. As annoying as they sometimes are, mostly the staff I (we) deal with try and get the job done.

[uptheos]

There is not really a lot they can do to improve they system here in Chiang Mai. It all has to come from Bangkok. There are a few changes such as making the forms available outside so people coming early can get one and have it filled out. All so on the outside clearly demonstrate what is needed to go along with the form so people can have that ready when they come in. Stop helping people to fill them out. This would greatly increase the amount they could handle. There are forms available on line for those with access to a computer.

In general until Bangkok lets them build a new building and hire adequate staff things are about as good as they are going to get. As I say stop filling in the forms for people would be a great help.

1. Forms in Mandarin, Cantonese, Korean, Japanese, Urdu, Khmer, Myanmar, Malay, Indonesian, Filipino, Swahili, Afrikaans et al might also help in that case.

2. Can you change the record?

[onthedarkside]

2 off topic transport posts - removed.

[evenstevens]

. We know a newer larger place is happening in the next couple of years

i certainly don.t

greatly appreciate a heads up , on the above

many thks in advance

[Albertnobgammer]

I now use the postal service for 90 day reports - I use EMS as suggested by immigration at CM. Not had a problem it is back within a week. (EMS to send - 4 x 3 baht stamps for the return envelope) I started using this as it was becoming intolerable at the immigration office, what used to take 15-20 minutes was getting more like a half day.

The Queue Online is also clogged up and almost impossible to get a slot - 100 DAYS IN ADVANCE!

I must admit though, I would have to say that in all my times visiting CM immigration, 90 day reports, re entry permits and 1 year extensions I have never really found the staff to be rude or unpleasant, well maybe just not pleasant, they are incompetent and cannot seem to just complete one task at a time. They are constantly trying to do more than one thing at the same time and to be honest, they are barely able to process the task in hand let alone "multi tasking".

I cannot comment on the boss at immigration, don't know the guy, but I would say that the staff are overloaded, not enough of them, the office is too small and has been for years.

Why this place hasn't been overhauled may well be due to what some of the posters are saying about the head guy.

It also does not seem to be anything to do with the Burmese workers either, they are usually penned off like cattle outside in herds and treated even worse than the tourists.

The place needs a complete teardown and a big rethink. In the years I have been going all that has been done is to wall in what used to be an open area, add some flat screen TV's (They removed the old tube TV that was in a cage above the counter) They never repaired the ticket machine and they have banned smoking!

You used to be able to just turn up on a day you fancied to get a yearly extension, no queue, and they even sat and waited for you to go outside and get all of the things you forgot to get photocopied. I even got given one of the Immigration officers business card so I could by new tyres for my truck with a 15% discount from her hubby! (And I got it too!)

[SinCityGr8One]

I went this morning to get a wrong stamp changed. Still took an hour. I had to go thru three underlyngs who insisted it was right before it got kicked up to a guy with a desk and he spotted it right away and changed. Place was packed. Is tomorrow Constitution day? and Immigration holiday? The nearby holidays might have figured in the crowding. I wanted to do a tourist visa extension also but a number I got meant afternoon so will go on another day for my last ever visit to Immigration!!!!! Yay. Palm Springs California will be my new home after nearly 10 years here. Loved living here but it's time to move on and Immigration issues definitely did figure in my decision.

enjoy Palm Springs....hotter than hell....was a very nice place about 25 years ago. like everywhere else, it's over-grown, over-populated, over-built, and lost its charm. but California is nice indeed. hope to be visiting Calif. soon myself.

You forgot to add the most important fact. Palm Springs and the rest of California is over priced.

[mania]

What would be a nice addition @ immigration albeit a small one?

A drop box where we can drop off an envelope with our 90 day forms & return envelope included

I guess the drawback being no delivery receipt ?

But if it was a slot right at the counter or the outside wall that drops into a box

behind the counter I would happily use it.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

It's not really that expensive. I guess it depends on your budget constraints.

Wrong thread to discuss but you might want to look a bit closer at the prices in the Coachella valley.

They aren't really that high. There is a lot affordable stuff post real estate bust.