Soldiers confiscate 'Thaksin Strawberry Jam'

[jayboy]

A very dispiriting thread in which a number of people - perhapd blinded by their political prejudices - have clearly lost sight of the troubling environment for human rights in Thailand.

One person who seems to understand the issues very well is the British Ambassador, Mark Kent.It's very pleasing to have British representation of this calibre in Thailand.

http://blogs.fco.gov.uk/markkent/2014/12/12/real-rights-for-real-people/

[tbthailand]

Sorry, I missed where they're selling "shut down Bangkok" t-shirts.

Ok lets put it this way, if there was a person walking in the street wearing a "shut down BKK t-shirt and a person wearing a cartoon of a square face male t-shirt, who do you think will have the problem? Now do you see that one side of the people are being censored and the other let to do as they wish.

So it is very far from being "ZERO" isn't it.

You're right. It's not quite zero. But I've seen people wearing red shirts without being dragged away by the police, so I don't know where you're getting the "one side being censored ..." stuff. You're trying to compare people wearing "shut down ..." t-shirts with people SELLING Thaksin jam.

Brother your a challenge, but ok cool,

A person wearing a "red" T-shirt isn't making a statement unless they are at a protest or rally of some sort, so no you won't see them being arrested,

Now a person wearing a "shut down BKK" is making a political statement, but they don't have any problems do they, like I said it's far from Zero tolerance, it is quite bias to one faction, but I think you do really know this but don't care to admit it.

so let agree to disagree, The fact is the army boys should not have shut him down and confiscated his products on a persons "opinion" that the cartoon looks to much like Mr T/S, therefore a provocative statement that's why it was all returned with an apology as they didn't follow the protocol ie, proof of rank, and required document of the removal of his stall and confiscation of his products, where as the proprietor did follow the laws ie business registration and all required documents.

no problem with what you say, but a closer comparison is the fish guy in CM. He was wearing more than just a red tshirt or having square shaped cartoons on his stand. He was actually wearing a PTP tshirt.

Now in CM wearing a ptp tshirt is about the same level of political involvement as is wearing a PDRC tshirt in Surat thani - ie: it just happens to be what is at the top of the tshirt stack that morning.

The difference comes in when the military show up at one place and strip the man half naked for being political and nothing happens in the other place. This is the bias that you and I and almost any other normal observer of Thailand sees. And it extends far beyond wardrobes and fashion statements.

[aussieinthailand]

Brother your a challenge, but ok cool,

A person wearing a "red" T-shirt isn't making a statement unless they are at a protest or rally of some sort, so no you won't see them being arrested,

Now a person wearing a "shut down BKK" is making a political statement, but they don't have any problems do they, like I said it's far from Zero tolerance, it is quite bias to one faction, but I think you do really know this but don't care to admit it.

so let agree to disagree, The fact is the army boys should not have shut him down and confiscated his products on a persons "opinion" that the cartoon looks to much like Mr T/S, therefore a provocative statement that's why it was all returned with an apology as they didn't follow the protocol ie, proof of rank, and required document of the removal of his stall and confiscation of his products, where as the proprietor did follow the laws ie business registration and all required documents.

So, another example of how much control of forums and blogs is needed since the BP article mentions that some websites had stated the UDD leader was selling red shirts ?

Are you taking the p*ss? so selling t-shirts that are red in color is now a problem? Damm!!! I got one or two in my cupboard, come to think of it I have a jacket also, and some underwear, should they be banned also?

so how about banning the sale of tomatoes coz they red, and how about apples red again, and I thought you a little more clever than that as your argument,,,,,,,,

[tbthailand]

Brother your a challenge, but ok cool,

A person wearing a "red" T-shirt isn't making a statement unless they are at a protest or rally of some sort, so no you won't see them being arrested,

Now a person wearing a "shut down BKK" is making a political statement, but they don't have any problems do they, like I said it's far from Zero tolerance, it is quite bias to one faction, but I think you do really know this but don't care to admit it.

so let agree to disagree, The fact is the army boys should not have shut him down and confiscated his products on a persons "opinion" that the cartoon looks to much like Mr T/S, therefore a provocative statement that's why it was all returned with an apology as they didn't follow the protocol ie, proof of rank, and required document of the removal of his stall and confiscation of his products, where as the proprietor did follow the laws ie business registration and all required documents.

So, another example of how much control of forums and blogs is needed since the BP article mentions that some websites had stated the UDD leader was selling red shirts ?

Are you taking the p*ss? so selling t-shirts that are red in color is now a problem? Damm!!! I got one or two in my cupboard, come to think of it I have a jacket also, and some underwear, should they be banned also?

so how about banning the sale of tomatoes coz they red, and how about apples red again, and I thought you a little more clever than that as your argument,,,,,,,,

dang, you hit on it, the strawberry jam was confiscated not because of a square headed cartoon, but because it's RED

[JimmyFT]

Did you miss the story of the army unit apologizing to the seller and returning the confiscated goods ?

It seems you are beating a dead horse here.

Agreed.

It seems like quite a few posters have missed that and continue to instead run off-topic with reports of t-shirts in the south and further off-topic sojourns of t-shirt sales in the north coupled with off-topic retorts of foreign ambassador musings on other topics.

These Thaksin defenders really do seem to enjoy to keep flogging this dead horse thread.

[tbthailand]

A very dispiriting thread in which a number of people - perhapd blinded by their political prejudices - have clearly lost sight of the troubling environment for human rights in Thailand.

One person who seems to understand the issues very well is the British Ambassador, Mark Kent.It's very pleasing to have British representation of this calibre in Thailand.

http://blogs.fco.gov.uk/markkent/2014/12/12/real-rights-for-real-people/

he had a good interview with prachatai.

very diplomatic. Too diplomatic for my taste.

[whybother]

So ?

Did you miss the story of the army unit apologizing to the seller and returning the confiscated goods ?

It seems you are beating a dead horse here.

I must say, you sure are a great coup defender.

Actually, I did miss it. Do you have a link to it? Not that it's relevant to what I said.

Where have I defended the coup?

Bangkok Post, so cannot post link. You have been justifying this action by referring to Martial law.

No, I am pointing out that martial law is in place and politics is basically against the law. Pointing out the reality of the law is not defending it.

[rubl]

Brother your a challenge, but ok cool,

A person wearing a "red" T-shirt isn't making a statement unless they are at a protest or rally of some sort, so no you won't see them being arrested,

Now a person wearing a "shut down BKK" is making a political statement, but they don't have any problems do they, like I said it's far from Zero tolerance, it is quite bias to one faction, but I think you do really know this but don't care to admit it.

so let agree to disagree, The fact is the army boys should not have shut him down and confiscated his products on a persons "opinion" that the cartoon looks to much like Mr T/S, therefore a provocative statement that's why it was all returned with an apology as they didn't follow the protocol ie, proof of rank, and required document of the removal of his stall and confiscation of his products, where as the proprietor did follow the laws ie business registration and all required documents.

So, another example of how much control of forums and blogs is needed since the BP article mentions that some websites had stated the UDD leader was selling red shirts ?

Are you taking the p*ss? so selling t-shirts that are red in color is now a problem? Damm!!! I got one or two in my cupboard, come to think of it I have a jacket also, and some underwear, should they be banned also?

so how about banning the sale of tomatoes coz they red, and how about apples red again, and I thought you a little more clever than that as your argument,,,,,,,,

Read again. I'm only wondering if there should be more control over social media as some websites seemed to have posted incorrect information which caused the government to act. Had there been better surveillance surely this whole incident could have been avoided.

[rubl]

Brother your a challenge, but ok cool,

A person wearing a "red" T-shirt isn't making a statement unless they are at a protest or rally of some sort, so no you won't see them being arrested,

Now a person wearing a "shut down BKK" is making a political statement, but they don't have any problems do they, like I said it's far from Zero tolerance, it is quite bias to one faction, but I think you do really know this but don't care to admit it.

so let agree to disagree, The fact is the army boys should not have shut him down and confiscated his products on a persons "opinion" that the cartoon looks to much like Mr T/S, therefore a provocative statement that's why it was all returned with an apology as they didn't follow the protocol ie, proof of rank, and required document of the removal of his stall and confiscation of his products, where as the proprietor did follow the laws ie business registration and all required documents.

So, another example of how much control of forums and blogs is needed since the BP article mentions that some websites had stated the UDD leader was selling red shirts ?

Are you taking the p*ss? so selling t-shirts that are red in color is now a problem? Damm!!! I got one or two in my cupboard, come to think of it I have a jacket also, and some underwear, should they be banned also?

so how about banning the sale of tomatoes coz they red, and how about apples red again, and I thought you a little more clever than that as your argument,,,,,,,,

dang, you hit on it, the strawberry jam was confiscated not because of a square headed cartoon, but because it's RED

Actually the confiscation was part of the cleanup of what was incorrectly reported as being an UDD leader activist provoking the government while being under Martial Law.

BTW had the strawberry jam been yellow or green I assume it would also have been confiscated, out of health reasons

[rubl]

Brother your a challenge, but ok cool,

A person wearing a "red" T-shirt isn't making a statement unless they are at a protest or rally of some sort, so no you won't see them being arrested,

Now a person wearing a "shut down BKK" is making a political statement, but they don't have any problems do they, like I said it's far from Zero tolerance, it is quite bias to one faction, but I think you do really know this but don't care to admit it.

so let agree to disagree, The fact is the army boys should not have shut him down and confiscated his products on a persons "opinion" that the cartoon looks to much like Mr T/S, therefore a provocative statement that's why it was all returned with an apology as they didn't follow the protocol ie, proof of rank, and required document of the removal of his stall and confiscation of his products, where as the proprietor did follow the laws ie business registration and all required documents.

no problem with what you say, but a closer comparison is the fish guy in CM. He was wearing more than just a red tshirt or having square shaped cartoons on his stand. He was actually wearing a PTP tshirt.

Now in CM wearing a ptp tshirt is about the same level of political involvement as is wearing a PDRC tshirt in Surat thani - ie: it just happens to be what is at the top of the tshirt stack that morning.

The difference comes in when the military show up at one place and strip the man half naked for being political and nothing happens in the other place. This is the bias that you and I and almost any other normal observer of Thailand sees. And it extends far beyond wardrobes and fashion statements.

The 'strip half naked' hasn't been proven yet. Somehow we only have a photo with soldiers and a man pointing to the door where some goods may be laying behind.

Anyway, strawberry jam, some websites with provoking information and why doesn't the government do a better surveillance on the internet ?

[sjaak327]

So ?

Did you miss the story of the army unit apologizing to the seller and returning the confiscated goods ?

It seems you are beating a dead horse here.

I must say, you sure are a great coup defender.

Actually, I did miss it. Do you have a link to it? Not that it's relevant to what I said.

Where have I defended the coup?

Bangkok Post, so cannot post link. You have been justifying this action by referring to Martial law.

No, I am pointing out that martial law is in place and politics is basically against the law. Pointing out the reality of the law is not defending it.

fair enough, of course the question would be is politics in general against the law, or is it merely political gatherings of over 5 people, in which case maybe the over 5 jars has been the problem

Anyway, the military has apologized and has returned the confiscated goods.

So it is safe to say that this particular case was not against martial law.

[casualbiker]

So ?

Did you miss the story of the army unit apologizing to the seller and returning the confiscated goods ?

It seems you are beating a dead horse here.

I must say, you sure are a great coup defender.

Actually, I did miss it. Do you have a link to it? Not that it's relevant to what I said.

Where have I defended the coup?

Bangkok Post, so cannot post link. You have been justifying this action by referring to Martial law.

No, I am pointing out that martial law is in place and politics is basically against the law. Pointing out the reality of the law is not defending it.

fair enough, of course the question would be is politics in general against the law, or is it merely political gatherings of over 5 people, in which case maybe the over 5 jars has been the problem

Anyway, the military has apologized and has returned the confiscated goods.

So it is safe to say that this particular case was not against martial law.

It was reported that he was selling red shirt paraphernalia from the stall previously. Hence the Army going there!

[Wombat6]

This country never ceases to amaze.

Maybe the TAT could use that as a slogan?

It may have been an illegal "Wanted" 'poster

[rubl]

With all the complaints of the near brutal, authoritarian, biased and whatever way the soldiers were performing in this case, let's put things in perspective.

How does the police in other, democratic countries behave ?

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/12/cops-use-taser-on-woman-while-she-recorded-arrest-of-another-man/

I guess the people making the photo's of the soldiers removing the roadstall were lucky

Edited December 14, 2014 by rubl

[tbthailand]

With all the complaints of the near brutal, authoritarian, biased and whatever way the soldiers were performing in this case, let's put things in perspective.

How does the police in other, democratic countries behave ?

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/12/cops-use-taser-on-woman-while-she-recorded-arrest-of-another-man/

I guess the people making the photo's of the soldiers removing the roadstall were lucky

yes, the ever useful, other countries have problems, so it's not so bad here comparison

good use of deflection.

except, 'other democratic countries' ... Thailand is not democratic, but under martial law

police behaviour, yes, police behavior in the usa is being examined and questioned in their use of force and racial bias. It's a problem and the country has to deal with it.

But that country deals with it in an open society, with a free press, and recourse in courts. More importantly, the incidents differ since the issue in Thailand is about what you think, believe and which side of the political debate you are on.

But keep trying to defend the indefensible.

[rubl]

With all the complaints of the near brutal, authoritarian, biased and whatever way the soldiers were performing in this case, let's put things in perspective.

How does the police in other, democratic countries behave ?

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/12/cops-use-taser-on-woman-while-she-recorded-arrest-of-another-man/

I guess the people making the photo's of the soldiers removing the roadstall were lucky

yes, the ever useful, other countries have problems, so it's not so bad here comparison

good use of deflection.

except, 'other democratic countries' ... Thailand is not democratic, but under martial law

police behaviour, yes, police behavior in the usa is being examined and questioned in their use of force and racial bias. It's a problem and the country has to deal with it.

But that country deals with it in an open society, with a free press, and recourse in courts. More importantly, the incidents differ since the issue in Thailand is about what you think, believe and which side of the political debate you are on.

But keep trying to defend the indefensible.

.. and that's why you're here in Thailand as taking your luck with the Army seems a better choice than arguing with the police back home in the States?

In the States is 'being' dealt with suing the government for 7m and here the soldiers apologised, returned confiscated goods and didn't even apply Martial Law on all who complaints, something they could have done.

As to the issue in Thailand being about what you think, believe, etc., seems to suggest that pure facts are unimportant. The mind boggles.

Edited December 14, 2014 by rubl

[asmodeus]

Thailand is Pathetic

[The manic]

Oh it is Mr T but why not? He and his party and supporters the red shirts won elections until the unelected opposition hijacked the airport and caused untold damage to the reputation of Thailand. The world really looked at the politics of Thailand for the first time.They then won another election. And will win another one. He has mass support and is an astute political leader. He got votes when his influential and rich opponents could not. So if his image on a jar of jam causes so much panic, and reading 1984 causes distress and using a three fingered salute is banned then the authorities lack credibility. A jar of jam! Sorry: it's pathetic and hats off to those brave'jam dealers' who lifted the lid, with a sense of humour, on the inequities of the situation. I have been aware of the power of cartoons as a political tool for years but to put a cartoon on a jam jar is priceless. Bravo!

Why not? Maybe because of martial law.

Martial law is illegal. The actions of the army were illegal. As an apologist for martial law and the coup you are shameful

[trainman34014]

11 pages about a few pots of strawberry jam that were taken and then given back ! What next; maybe a thread about Kit Kat's being in a red packet which runs for 20 pages plus. Get a life people !

[The manic]

11 pages about a few pots of strawberry jam that were taken and then given back ! What next; maybe a thread about Kit Kat's being in a red packet which runs for 20 pages plus. Get a life people !

Yes I remember when I was running a market stall in the UK when a bunch of squaddies smashed the stall and confiscated all the Tony Blair mugs. Soldiers do that kind of thing to fellow citizens every day. I wasn't surprised because they had taken my vote away a few months ago and taken my right to protest as well, oh and banned my salutes and banned books from my school course list. It' great having a standing army ready to control my thoughts words and deeds.

[whybother]

Oh it is Mr T but why not? He and his party and supporters the red shirts won elections until the unelected opposition hijacked the airport and caused untold damage to the reputation of Thailand. The world really looked at the politics of Thailand for the first time.They then won another election. And will win another one. He has mass support and is an astute political leader. He got votes when his influential and rich opponents could not. So if his image on a jar of jam causes so much panic, and reading 1984 causes distress and using a three fingered salute is banned then the authorities lack credibility. A jar of jam! Sorry: it's pathetic and hats off to those brave'jam dealers' who lifted the lid, with a sense of humour, on the inequities of the situation. I have been aware of the power of cartoons as a political tool for years but to put a cartoon on a jam jar is priceless. Bravo!

Why not? Maybe because of martial law.

Martial law is illegal. The actions of the army were illegal. As an apologist for martial law and the coup you are shameful

Martial law apologist? Not at all. Just stating the facts.

Martial law is in effect. It is legal.

The actions of the army were apparently incorrect. That doesn't make them illegal.

[rubl]

11 pages about a few pots of strawberry jam that were taken and then given back ! What next; maybe a thread about Kit Kat's being in a red packet which runs for 20 pages plus. Get a life people !

Yes I remember when I was running a market stall in the UK when a bunch of squaddies smashed the stall and confiscated all the Tony Blair mugs. Soldiers do that kind of thing to fellow citizens every day. I wasn't surprised because they had taken my vote away a few months ago and taken my right to protest as well, oh and banned my salutes and banned books from my school course list. It' great having a standing army ready to control my thoughts words and deeds.

I understand David Cameron was democratically elected, so why complain?

PS take care, in the UK the internet is heavily surveilled and anything you write can and will be used against you. Allegedly only of course.

[sjaak327]

11 pages about a few pots of strawberry jam that were taken and then given back ! What next; maybe a thread about Kit Kat's being in a red packet which runs for 20 pages plus. Get a life people !

Yes I remember when I was running a market stall in the UK when a bunch of squaddies smashed the stall and confiscated all the Tony Blair mugs. Soldiers do that kind of thing to fellow citizens every day. I wasn't surprised because they had taken my vote away a few months ago and taken my right to protest as well, oh and banned my salutes and banned books from my school course list. It' great having a standing army ready to control my thoughts words and deeds.

I understand David Cameron was democratically elected, so why complain?

PS take care, in the UK the internet is heavily surveilled and anything you write can and will be used against you. Allegedly only of course.

I am quite certain internet monitoring and banning of sites deemed inappropriate is alive and well in Thailand as well, come to think of it, I believe it is far worse compared to the UK.

[tbthailand]

With all the complaints of the near brutal, authoritarian, biased and whatever way the soldiers were performing in this case, let's put things in perspective.

How does the police in other, democratic countries behave ?

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/12/cops-use-taser-on-woman-while-she-recorded-arrest-of-another-man/

I guess the people making the photo's of the soldiers removing the roadstall were lucky

yes, the ever useful, other countries have problems, so it's not so bad here comparison

good use of deflection.

except, 'other democratic countries' ... Thailand is not democratic, but under martial law

police behaviour, yes, police behavior in the usa is being examined and questioned in their use of force and racial bias. It's a problem and the country has to deal with it.

But that country deals with it in an open society, with a free press, and recourse in courts. More importantly, the incidents differ since the issue in Thailand is about what you think, believe and which side of the political debate you are on.

But keep trying to defend the indefensible.

.. and that's why you're here in Thailand as taking your luck with the Army seems a better choice than arguing with the police back home in the States?

In the States is 'being' dealt with suing the government for 7m and here the soldiers apologised, returned confiscated goods and didn't even apply Martial Law on all who complaints, something they could have done.

As to the issue in Thailand being about what you think, believe, etc., seems to suggest that pure facts are unimportant. The mind boggles.

good morning rubl.

once again you understand nothing of what is written but that doesn't stop you from responding. It clear that your mind is, indeed, boggled.

Have a good day.

[The manic]

Oh it is Mr T but why not? He and his party and supporters the red shirts won elections until the unelected opposition hijacked the airport and caused untold damage to the reputation of Thailand. The world really looked at the politics of Thailand for the first time.They then won another election. And will win another one. He has mass support and is an astute political leader. He got votes when his influential and rich opponents could not. So if his image on a jar of jam causes so much panic, and reading 1984 causes distress and using a three fingered salute is banned then the authorities lack credibility. A jar of jam! Sorry: it's pathetic and hats off to those brave'jam dealers' who lifted the lid, with a sense of humour, on the inequities of the situation. I have been aware of the power of cartoons as a political tool for years but to put a cartoon on a jam jar is priceless. Bravo!

Why not? Maybe because of martial law.

Martial law is illegal. The actions of the army were illegal. As an apologist for martial law and the coup you are shameful

Martial law apologist? Not at all. Just stating the facts.

Martial law is in effect. It is legal.

The actions of the army were apparently incorrect. That doesn't make them illegal.

Er, no. It is not legal, moral or just when the military seize power and such actions always lead to abuse of power. As for the soldiers actions? How many were prosecuted? Or were they given a pardon? Oh no, there were not brought to trial or court martial because they attacked government supporters. To you that seems OK but in fact 'those who may not be criticised' have the morals of Putin and the concern for the people of Mugabe. The foreign apologists for 'those who must not be disobeyed' are shameful.

[whybother]

Er, no. It is not legal, moral or just when the military seize power and such actions always lead to abuse of power. As for the soldiers actions? How many were prosecuted? Or were they given a pardon? Oh no, there were not brought to trial or court martial because they attacked government supporters. To you that seems OK but in fact 'those who may not be criticised' have the morals of Putin and the concern for the people of Mugabe. The foreign apologists for 'those who must not be disobeyed' are shameful.

It wasn't legal, moral or just for the military to seize power. But the PM has been endorsed by the King, so that makes martial law legal.

"As for the soldiers actions? How many were prosecuted? Or were they given a pardon? Oh no, there were not brought to trial or court martial because they attacked government supporters."

I'm not sure what you're saying here. The soldiers weren't prosecuted or given a pardon. They didn't attack any government supporters. What they did was legal.

The stall owner wasn't prosecuted or given a pardon. As far as I know he didn't attack any government supporters.

I am not saying it is "OK" for this to happen. I am just stating that it's legal.

Comparing the government to Putin and Mugabe is hyperbole.

[The manic]

I regard this reply as inflammatory because of its reference to higher personages and the replies it might invoke so I am reporting it. You are a disgrace to hide behind other people's symbol of reverence as though it were your own. What next? Invoking the Koran? You scored a cheap shot by supressing argument and dissent. Why am I not suprised?

Edited December 15, 2014 by The manic

[whybother]

I regard this reply as inflammatory because of its reference to higher personages and the replies it might invoke so I am reporting it. You are a disgrace to hide behind other people's point of reverence as though it were your own. What next? Invoking the Koran? You scored a cheap shot by superseding argument

Why would I invoke the koran?

I pointed out why martial law was legal. You may not like it, but that doesn't change whether it is legal or not.

[The manic]

Because you are cheap by making references knowing that people cannot argue back. You are hiding your argument behind other people's piety similar to quoting the Koran at me in a situation where I could not argue back. Disgusting and exploitative

[whybother]

Because you are cheap by making references knowing that people cannot argue back. You are hiding your argument behind other people's piety similar to quoting the Koran at me in a situation where I could not argue back. Disgusting and exploitative

Can you explain to me why it's not legal?