Letter from two accused of Koh Tao murders to Daw Aung San Suu Kyi Myanmar Democracy icon

[jdinasia]

They would have been tested at the first round, no doubt in my mind about that. That's how it was possible to frame them with the initial DNA sample they had already taken from them. The phone would already have been planted at their accommodation by then. Whoever committed the murders would have seen them singing/playing on the beach and hey presto the perfect scapegoats. Take note that after they were interrogated and police said they had enough evidence to indict them, (Oct 2nd was it?) the only thing police were waiting for to 'prove' (the next day - and within 14 hours was it?) they were the guilty party were the DNA results. If the B2 had not had confessed to the murders then the police would not have announced a match. Then they forced them to humiliate themselves in front of the world by re-enacting what they had supposedly done. The puppeteers guiding hands, along with their directions - the perplexed faces of the B2. The hard hats and body vests for God's sake. Did any of the onlookers attempt to harm the B2 in anyway? No. If the RTP had have had more time before the rushed re-enactment no doubt they would have been able to pay some bystanders to chuck a few things at the B2 and scream obscenities.

Of course they were tested at the first round (see link below), as you say, they worked at the AC bar and even admitted being near the crime scene at the beach. There was NO MATCH period! Anybody that thinks different is IMO completely out their mind. Unfortunately they were the perfect scapegoats for Captain Eureka.

It has been pointed out here how easy it is to swap DNA samples and IMHO these B2 are 1000% not guilty. B3 said they were sleeping like babies around 5.00am, they didn't flee the island, just went on with their work the next day and had no bruises or scratches whatsoever. Not one microscopic bit of blood was found on them nor found at their room ever.

Anybody involved in this cover up should be locked away for a very very long time and the people responsible for this crime, I expect around 3 to 4 wannabee badboys partying with Mon & Nomsod, should be locked away for-good. Free the B2, NOW!

http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-222707-0-29886800-1418613273.jpg

Sorry to rain in your speculative parade, but you have absolutely no idea if the results of the DNA samples were completed before they were arrested, as I have pointed out over, and over again.

Second, just because you want to believe the DNA was swapped it doesn't make it true, specially because the samples taken from them didn't include semen; third, one of the accused tried to flee the island and finally you also have no idea if they had any scratches, bruises or clothing with blood.

Based on that big ball of bo**ocks you want the men to walk free without going through a trial were the actual evidence, as opposed to your make believe world of fantasy, will be presented and examined.

Same for you, if they had scratches, bruises or clothing with blood, Do you really believe the RTP would NOT have mentioned those facts if true, after all they have said in the media? Pretty naif! They should be freed because the trial is a charade, it is fixed, and a disgrace!

They were arrested 2 weeks after the murders.

[Gweiloman]

Sorry to rain in your speculative parade, but you have absolutely no idea if the results of the DNA samples were completed before they were arrested, as I have pointed out over, and over again.

Second, just because you want to believe the DNA was swapped it doesn't make it true, specially because the samples taken from them didn't include semen; third, one of the accused tried to flee the island and finally you also have no idea if they had any scratches, bruises or clothing with blood.

Based on that big ball of bo**ocks you want the men to walk free without going through a trial were the actual evidence, as opposed to your make believe world of fantasy, will be presented and examined.

Same for you, if they had scratches, bruises or clothing with blood, Do you really believe the RTP would NOT have mentioned those facts if true, after all they have said in the media? Pretty naif! They should be freed because the trial is a charade, it is fixed, and a disgrace!

They were arrested 2 weeks after the murders.

What EXACTLY are you trying to say here? (other than to up your post count?). That any scratches / bruises would have healed and that any clothing with blood would have been washed out?

[jimmybkk]

Like the families JD and I only stated we want to see them stand trial but we also believe the evidence is strong against them and don't like or believe in the nonsense conspiracy theories (apparently also like the victim's family). At this stage I do think they are responsible but never ever said they should be executed or sentenced without a trial. So, not really sure what you are going on about. In fact, I am against executing anyone regardless of their crimes.

Would you mind being specific regarding the evidence you believe is strong against them - is it the confession? The DNA results?

Lets not use the word evidence literally seeing how nothing has been presented yet in court but here are some of my thoughts on why they are likely guilty but also bare in mind I have heard NOTHING but nonsense that could be used in just about any case to cast doubt for those who simply don't want to believe.

Their Semen in the victim (this along I can't get past unless defense can explain, I need nothing else)

It would take a massive conspiracy to say it was their semen/dna if it wasn't or would take somebody very early on (first day at the scene) to have planted this evidence which means all the false accusations and loss of face and doubt in the case this brought was planned since they always knew they would set-up these two.

The friend/witness who states they gave them the victim's phone to destroy

The phone being recovered at their place

Their admitting to being on the beach that night

Their comment after admitting being the ones ones on the beach playing guitar that night (but never coming forward when they were looking to identify them from the first days)

Their saying they were too drunk to have done this, they could barely walk (very typical and self serving because it also could relate to their being too drunk to remember as well as minimize their responsibility.

Although I believe in court (actual evidence) any confession where there is a claim of threats or abuse should be thrown out (regardless of proof) I find it odd they met with embassy staff and human rights workers privately and admitted they did it but didn't intend to kill while also saying yes the police did threatened them ... before later retracting the confession after getting a lawyer who is using the notoriety of the case and the disbelievers to try to win this case through public and outside government pressure but best I can tell never ever addressing their semen in the victim.

I trust that the parents are telling the truth that there is more evidence we don't know about and their confidence in the case and also trust their statements were based largely on the UK Investigators findings. And this would mean the UK investigators believe in the case against these two and didn't find reason to believe their was a cover up.

After police accused numerous people and admitting they had the info wrong against them, there has been nothing coming out that they made a mistake or had bad info on this one.

Not going to convict without a trial but I think the kids are guilty baring any future unknown evidence coming out and sadly if this is true I think their lawyer is going to get them killed in the way he is trying to leverage public outcry and this letter writing nonsense to people who cannot help but can get on the anti-Thai or conspiracy train to try to win the case through pressure which will never work. If these two are guilty, and I am confident at this point they are, they need to fire this guy, confess and make a deal to take the death penalty off the table. This would almost guarantee they will be out of prison at an age where they can still be a productive member of society. But at this rate if found guilty they will be executed for their lack or remorse and cooperation and their going out to their way to blame Thai authorities and the legal system for what they did.

"Let's not use the word evidence literally..."??? Why not...? The word evidence is not only applicable to something presented in a courtroom. Furthermore, it is a word that can only be used literally and to suggest it can be used non-literally is complete nonsense - to do so means that whatever is being referred to can no longer be described as evidence, it becomes something else - theory, supposition, assumption... In this case you have attempted to switch from being asked to show what evidence was strong against the accused (factual), to offering your own thoughts as to why they are likely guilty (theories).

So, to anyone who has read the above statements written by JohnThailandJohn, please do not for one moment assume that there is any truth to these assertions, despite how convincing they may sound. As JohnThailandJohn has stated, these assertions are simply his thoughts and are not based on any evidence whatsoever.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Like the families JD and I only stated we want to see them stand trial but we also believe the evidence is strong against them and don't like or believe in the nonsense conspiracy theories (apparently also like the victim's family). At this stage I do think they are responsible but never ever said they should be executed or sentenced without a trial. So, not really sure what you are going on about. In fact, I am against executing anyone regardless of their crimes.

Would you mind being specific regarding the evidence you believe is strong against them - is it the confession? The DNA results?

Lets not use the word evidence literally seeing how nothing has been presented yet in court but here are some of my thoughts on why they are likely guilty but also bare in mind I have heard NOTHING but nonsense that could be used in just about any case to cast doubt for those who simply don't want to believe.

Their Semen in the victim (this along I can't get past unless defense can explain, I need nothing else)

It would take a massive conspiracy to say it was their semen/dna if it wasn't or would take somebody very early on (first day at the scene) to have planted this evidence which means all the false accusations and loss of face and doubt in the case this brought was planned since they always knew they would set-up these two.

The friend/witness who states they gave them the victim's phone to destroy

The phone being recovered at their place

Their admitting to being on the beach that night

Their comment after admitting being the ones ones on the beach playing guitar that night (but never coming forward when they were looking to identify them from the first days)

Their saying they were too drunk to have done this, they could barely walk (very typical and self serving because it also could relate to their being too drunk to remember as well as minimize their responsibility.

Although I believe in court (actual evidence) any confession where there is a claim of threats or abuse should be thrown out (regardless of proof) I find it odd they met with embassy staff and human rights workers privately and admitted they did it but didn't intend to kill while also saying yes the police did threatened them ... before later retracting the confession after getting a lawyer who is using the notoriety of the case and the disbelievers to try to win this case through public and outside government pressure but best I can tell never ever addressing their semen in the victim.

I trust that the parents are telling the truth that there is more evidence we don't know about and their confidence in the case and also trust their statements were based largely on the UK Investigators findings. And this would mean the UK investigators believe in the case against these two and didn't find reason to believe their was a cover up.

After police accused numerous people and admitting they had the info wrong against them, there has been nothing coming out that they made a mistake or had bad info on this one.

Not going to convict without a trial but I think the kids are guilty baring any future unknown evidence coming out and sadly if this is true I think their lawyer is going to get them killed in the way he is trying to leverage public outcry and this letter writing nonsense to people who cannot help but can get on the anti-Thai or conspiracy train to try to win the case through pressure which will never work. If these two are guilty, and I am confident at this point they are, they need to fire this guy, confess and make a deal to take the death penalty off the table. This would almost guarantee they will be out of prison at an age where they can still be a productive member of society. But at this rate if found guilty they will be executed for their lack or remorse and cooperation and their going out to their way to blame Thai authorities and the legal system for what they did.

"Let's not use the word evidence literally..."??? Why not...? The word evidence is not only applicable to something presented in a courtroom. Furthermore, it is a word that can only be used literally and to suggest it can be used non-literally is complete nonsense - to do so means that whatever is being referred to can no longer be described as evidence, it becomes something else - theory, supposition, assumption... In this case you have attempted to switch from being asked to show what evidence was strong against the accused (factual), to offering your own thoughts as to why they are likely guilty (theories).

So, to anyone who has read the above statements written by JohnThailandJohn, please do not for one moment assume that there is any truth to these assertions, despite how convincing they may sound. As JohnThailandJohn has stated, these assertions are simply his thoughts and are not based on any evidence whatsoever.

I apologize for mistakenly believing your question showed you as a reasonable person one could debate with about what we believe may be actual evidence in the case.

And the answer to your question is answered in the "..." you used above to delete the answer in your response.

Edited December 15, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[JohnThailandJohn]

That is what I am saying. It's hearsay at the moment. Why do you believe in a statement?

If previous statement said they are clear, and now they are not, then they should explain how they goofed up. And two seemingly correct procedure ended in two different result? Sure they are human and prime to making mistakes. If they explain why they made the mistake, then we have more over sight during the second round of testing. Which should have been by a third independent party. This now becomes the issue of credibility. So do you know why there it's a difference in test result?

Outside of the police statement and family statement, what other solid proof do you have that these two are the murderer? One thing police in Thailand knows too darn well is that most Thais are gullible. Because they are all taught to respect elders without taking back. Critical thinking piece it's not encouraged.

My only fear is that the statement by the police and the family will find these two guilty by the public. And without public support, These two will never get a fair trial.

"If previous statement said they are clear, and now they are not"

There is no statement from anyone but people peddling conspiracies in social media claiming that. See post #421 for an example.

They made it up (they being the conspiracy theory peddlers), they took one statement saying that a group of Burmese men were cleared in a DNA test, another statement saying that the police had a DNA match after the current accused were arrested and from that they conflated things into "(in a)previous statement said they are clear, and now they are not" without a shred of an indication that the Burmese men cleared by DNA testing are the same that later were arrested.

Please look up in the thread who is making that claim, and their complete inability to substantiate it with an actual citation.

It has got to the point that these conspiracies theories are an embarrassment for these people but what is sad is they don't even grasp how far removed from any sense of logic and reality they have become.

Many of the conspiracies start or are jumped from actual lies or distortion of information released. The police stated early on their was huge back log in the labs since they collected hundred of DNA samples. MANY were not run but as they zeroed in on and questioned certain suspects they would expedite their DNA testing pushing them to the front of the testing queue. So, conspiracy theorists hear this then go on a tear saying how they 2 in custody whose semen was found in the victim where previously cleared.

[JohnThailandJohn]

They would have been tested at the first round, no doubt in my mind about that. That's how it was possible to frame them with the initial DNA sample they had already taken from them. The phone would already have been planted at their accommodation by then. Whoever committed the murders would have seen them singing/playing on the beach and hey presto the perfect scapegoats. Take note that after they were interrogated and police said they had enough evidence to indict them, (Oct 2nd was it?) the only thing police were waiting for to 'prove' (the next day - and within 14 hours was it?) they were the guilty party were the DNA results. If the B2 had not had confessed to the murders then the police would not have announced a match. Then they forced them to humiliate themselves in front of the world by re-enacting what they had supposedly done. The puppeteers guiding hands, along with their directions - the perplexed faces of the B2. The hard hats and body vests for God's sake. Did any of the onlookers attempt to harm the B2 in anyway? No. If the RTP had have had more time before the rushed re-enactment no doubt they would have been able to pay some bystanders to chuck a few things at the B2 and scream obscenities.

Of course they were tested at the first round (see link below), as you say, they worked at the AC bar and even admitted being near the crime scene at the beach. There was NO MATCH period! Anybody that thinks different is IMO completely out their mind. Unfortunately they were the perfect scapegoats for Captain Eureka.

It has been pointed out here how easy it is to swap DNA samples and IMHO these B2 are 1000% not guilty. B3 said they were sleeping like babies around 5.00am, they didn't flee the island, just went on with their work the next day and had no bruises or scratches whatsoever. Not one microscopic bit of blood was found on them nor found at their room ever.

Anybody involved in this cover up should be locked away for a very very long time and the people responsible for this crime, I expect around 3 to 4 wannabee badboys partying with Mon & Nomsod, should be locked away for-good. Free the B2, NOW!

http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-222707-0-29886800-1418613273.jpg

Sorry to rain in your speculative parade, but you have absolutely no idea if the results of the DNA samples were completed before they were arrested, as I have pointed out over, and over again.

Second, just because you want to believe the DNA was swapped it doesn't make it true, specially because the samples taken from them didn't include semen; third, one of the accused tried to flee the island and finally you also have no idea if they had any scratches, bruises or clothing with blood.

Based on that big ball of bo**ocks you want the men to walk free without going through a trial were the actual evidence, as opposed to your make believe world of fantasy, will be presented and examined.

Same for you, if they had scratches, bruises or clothing with blood, Do you really believe the RTP would NOT have mentioned those facts if true, after all they have said in the media? Pretty naif! They should be freed because the trial is a charade, it is fixed, and a disgrace!

As the parents stated, after being informed by UK Investigators, there is a lot of evidence we don't know.

[siampolee]

JohnThailandJohn post # 547.

As the parents stated, after being informed by UK Investigators, there is a lot of evidence we don't know.

If that is the case why do you keep on making spurious statements?

Are you privy to the facts that the U.K. investigators may or may not have?

Perhaps. In fact you would be better advised to follow your own comments and refrain from rumour mongering and the support of a flawed investigation

[maxme]

That is what I am saying. It's hearsay at the moment. Why do you believe in a statement?

If previous statement said they are clear, and now they are not, then they should explain how they goofed up. And two seemingly correct procedure ended in two different result? Sure they are human and prime to making mistakes. If they explain why they made the mistake, then we have more over sight during the second round of testing. Which should have been by a third independent party. This now becomes the issue of credibility. So do you know why there it's a difference in test result?

Outside of the police statement and family statement, what other solid proof do you have that these two are the murderer? One thing police in Thailand knows too darn well is that most Thais are gullible. Because they are all taught to respect elders without taking back. Critical thinking piece it's not encouraged.

My only fear is that the statement by the police and the family will find these two guilty by the public. And without public support, These two will never get a fair trial.

"If previous statement said they are clear, and now they are not"

There is no statement from anyone but people peddling conspiracies in social media claiming that. See post #421 for an example.

They made it up (they being the conspiracy theory peddlers), they took one statement saying that a group of Burmese men were cleared in a DNA test, another statement saying that the police had a DNA match after the current accused were arrested and from that they conflated things into "(in a)previous statement said they are clear, and now they are not" without a shred of an indication that the Burmese men cleared by DNA testing are the same that later were arrested.

Please look up in the thread who is making that claim, and their complete inability to substantiate it with an actual citation.

It has got to the point that these conspiracies theories are an embarrassment for these people but what is sad is they don't even grasp how far removed from any sense of logic and reality they have become.

Many of the conspiracies start or are jumped from actual lies or distortion of information released. The police stated early on their was huge back log in the labs since they collected hundred of DNA samples. MANY were not run but as they zeroed in on and questioned certain suspects they would expedite their DNA testing pushing them to the front of the testing queue. So, conspiracy theorists hear this then go on a tear saying how they 2 in custody whose semen was found in the victim where previously cleared.

Coming from one who posts more than any other poster on the subject. Either you are a very dedicated PR guy trying to bring back something that was never there, a reputation, or just lonely. Who on earth responds to every post with an opinion if they don't have a vested interest in the matter?

[BoristheBlade]

All this talk of DNA is fine, but I have my doubts any of the DNA samples taken in the early days of the investigation were ever sent for testing by the RTP.

Correct DNA testing is very time consuming and expensive, and I don't believe the RTP had the budget or the will to do numerous tests.

But this investigation should be far more than DNA, there is simply no evidence from what I can see that shows the Burmese were the killers.

[BoristheBlade]

The RTP have said the Burmese raped because they became aroused when they witnessed the British couple been intimate on the beach.

Insulting lies, Hanna and David were never an item, indeed all the evidence shown by the RTP ie cctv and released photo in the AC bar show quite the opposite. At no time were David and Hanna shown to be together.

The truth is David was walking near his accommodation and heard Hanna in distress, because he was a conscientious gentleman he went to her aid and was brutally murdered.

[englishoak]

Yea they also cleared the lads on the first round of the alleged DNA testing along with half the island. I believe theres a photo of one or more of them in line on the first round.

How come they didnt pick them up right then as they were clearing people before it was possible to get back tests from the labs that fast ?

Because they didnt do any DNA testing in the beginning rd just touted a show about while they had all this bs going on about they dont have the tech in Thailand and theirs can only tell the difference between a monkey and a banana or something stupid. id link it if i could remember the headlines paired with the pictures at that time, but im sure a photo does exist of that first line up parade.

Edited December 16, 2014 by englishoak

[ubonjoe]

A post quoting an unknown new source has been removed.

A post and replies to it that quotes a Bangkok Post news article and a link to it has been removed (forum rule).

[JohnThailandJohn]

Now we have gone beyond the bizarre ... DNA testing too expensive and not done in the early days

Within 3 days of the bodies being discovered they already cleared people based on DNA.

Basic DNA match testing is easily done within 24 hours and can even be done in a few hours. What causes delays in most cases is the backlog at labs. A DNA test (retail) costs a few thousands baht.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/learning-from-news/432493/tourists-murdered-on-koh-tao

But when you get bizarre it makes it is easy to say there is no evidence including the suspects semen in victim, witnesses putting them near the murder scene around time of the murder, a witness who states they gave them David's phone after the murders...

Rather bizarre then for the Chief of the RTP to state the Thai's DNA labs can only distinguish between male and female, hence he then went on to say he was going to seek the help of the FBI! If you want to call something bizarre then thats it. Oh yes your next reply will be that he was mistaken......of course he was, the Chief of Police who should have expert knowledge on this was mistaken

Again we must go to fairly tale land to continue with conspiracies -- never was it said that they could only tell male or female, what they said was they didn't have the ability to tell race and that is why they said they would be sending samples to Singapore and then a day or two later came back and said the DNA was from somebody of Asian decent.

Which btw was a total pile of rubbish, no DNA test on the planet is that limited ,,,

Clearly you should do some research on DNA testing types because you have no idea what you are talking about .... there are all sorts of testing types of available including very cheap tests to check for match or paternity to more complex that can check ethnicity and within these groups are different types of tests that can be done.

It really is getting more and more bizarre here with folks just saying anything they want to say without any factual basis or thought to reality but trying to state these things as fact that are clearly not.

Edited December 16, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[thailandchilli]

No this is the only BIZARRE thing. The Thai Chief of Police making this rather incredible statement:

Police will request help from the United States' Federation Bureau of Investigation to test semen found in the body of a female British backpacker brutally murdered on the resort island of Koh Tao this week.

DNA testing technology in Thailand could only identify whether human secretions came from a male or female, said deputy police chief General Somyot Pumpunmuang, while the FBI had "sophisticated technology".

"We will ask the FBI to help identify the DNA in the semen we found - whether it belonged to an Asian or European," he said yesterday.

So please tell me, what do we now believe, that the technology suddenly became available overnight, the RTP chief was mistaken even though as chief of police and someone who should be well versed in these matters made a mistake and actually has no clue what he's talking about?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-seek-help-from-FBI-on-DNA-30243708.html

[englishoak]

ummm you dont need a DNA test to determine sex thats on the form sticker on the samples sent in but anyway. Heres the kicker that'll fry your noodle even mentioning male or female bs etc.

They already knew the victim was assaulted by a male or males due to seamen found as the DNA match sample hence why the tested of interest were far as I know all male.

[JohnThailandJohn]

No this is the only BIZARRE thing. The Thai Chief of Police making this rather incredible statement:

Police will request help from the United States' Federation Bureau of Investigation to test semen found in the body of a female British backpacker brutally murdered on the resort island of Koh Tao this week.

DNA testing technology in Thailand could only identify whether human secretions came from a male or female, said deputy police chief General Somyot Pumpunmuang, while the FBI had "sophisticated technology".

"We will ask the FBI to help identify the DNA in the semen we found - whether it belonged to an Asian or European," he said yesterday.

So please tell me, what do we now believe, that the technology suddenly became available overnight, the RTP chief was mistaken even though as chief of police and someone who should be well versed in these matters made a mistake and actually has no clue what he's talking about?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-seek-help-from-FBI-on-DNA-30243708.html

Well seeing how they said they instead were sending the samples to Singapore and then within a day or two had the results that it was from an Asian, doesn't seem at all bizarre unless one is desperately looking to cling onto fantasy to continue to promote conspiracy theories.

There is always the risk of making yourself look foolish or worse dishonest by quoting old news when many updated news items on the topic are available. Seems either very deceptive or just plain ignorant of the information about the case. I really can't see any other alternative to why you and others do this when NOBODY hasn't accepted reporting has been bad on this and there has been much information reported and incorrect or premature statements that were later updated.

Edited December 16, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[JohnThailandJohn]

ummm you dont need a DNA test to determine sex thats on the form sticker on the samples sent in but anyway.

So you think they knew the sex of the dna swabs on the cigarettes or even that they'd recover DNA when they sent it in? Or are you referring to the samples collected from suspects which would not have had any identifying information on the label but a control number since these test are done in a blind fashion.

Edited December 16, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[thailandchilli]

amateur deflection and even accusing me of dishonesty with a quote from the RTP chief, well done keep it up

Edited December 16, 2014 by thailandchilli

[boomerangutang]

The hard hats and body vests for God's sake. Did any of the onlookers attempt to harm the B2 in anyway? No.

Actually, I can side with the RTP, in regard to providing protective helmets and body vests on the day of that farcical reenactment. It's often happened, in prior reenactiments of Thai crimes, where onlookers are livid, and thereby try to harm the suspects. Police naturally assumed, with the heinous crime just committed, that locals would be livid and bent on harming the suspects. Cops also expected, at the least, cuss words and threats would be hurled at the suspects. Surprise! Nothing of the sort happened. Onlookers merely looked. Why? Because onlookers knew (like most of us here posting, and most Thais who are following the case know) that the little Burmese guys were complete scapegoats. If there had been some farang in the on-looking crowd, they might have shouted, "Hey police, why don't you arrest the men who really should be prime suspects!" ....except to do so, might get the shouter a hard knock to the head, either by police or one of the Headman's friends or family.

After all, if the case is half as full of holes as the conspiracy theorists insist it should be a piece of cake for the defense to get an acquittal, so why so nervous about it?

Why so nervous? Well, I'm not nervous (my pulse and blood pressure is fine, thank you), but I am concerned. Why? Because the combined force of Army (nearly all top politicians are military), Police and the all the Headman's friends and family, and possibly also the judiciary, is marching in lockstep to convict the scapegoats. Perhaps I shouldn't care about two little guys with no money, no social standing, no connections to important people, .....but I do.

[boomerangutang]

Yea they also cleared the lads on the first round of the alleged DNA testing along with half the island. I believe theres a photo of one or more of them in line on the first round.

How come they didnt pick them up right then as they were clearing people before it was possible to get back tests from the labs that fast ? Because they didnt do any DNA testing in the beginning rd just touted a show about while they had all this bs going on about they dont have the tech in Thailand and theirs can only tell the difference between a monkey and a banana or something stupid. id link it if i could remember the headlines paired with the pictures at that time, but im sure a photo does exist of that first line up parade.

Don't knock bananas. We share 17% of our DNA with bananas. As for monkeys, it's around 95%, no offense to monkeys.

[AleG]

The RTP have said the Burmese raped because they became aroused when they witnessed the British couple been intimate on the beach.

Insulting lies, Hanna and David were never an item, indeed all the evidence shown by the RTP ie cctv and released photo in the AC bar show quite the opposite. At no time were David and Hanna shown to be together.

The truth is David was walking near his accommodation and heard Hanna in distress, because he was a conscientious gentleman he went to her aid and was brutally murdered.

"The truth is David was walking near his accommodation and heard Hanna in distress, because he was a conscientious gentleman he went to her aid and was brutally murdered."

Your speculation is not "the truth", unless you were there and saw that you are simply making things up. If you were there and saw that, have already contacted the Burmese lawyers to give your testimony?

[boomerangutang]

The RTP have said the Burmese raped because they became aroused when they witnessed the British couple been intimate on the beach.

Insulting lies, Hanna and David were never an item, indeed all the evidence shown by the RTP ie cctv and released photo in the AC bar show quite the opposite. At no time were David and Hanna shown to be together.

The truth is David was walking near his accommodation and heard Hanna in distress, because he was a conscientious gentleman he went to her aid and was brutally murdered.

"The truth is David was walking near his accommodation and heard Hanna in distress, because he was a conscientious gentleman he went to her aid and was brutally murdered."

Your speculation is not "the truth", unless you were there and saw that you are simply making things up. If you were there and saw that, have already contacted the Burmese lawyers to give your testimony?

Shrill again, AleG? We all admit we weren't at the scene. We're assessing all the evidence and claims which have come forth (some of which are contrived by authorities), and we're putting forth plausible scenarios. You're welcome to do the same, if you choose. We're not in a court of law.

[AleG]

The RTP have said the Burmese raped because they became aroused when they witnessed the British couple been intimate on the beach.

Insulting lies, Hanna and David were never an item, indeed all the evidence shown by the RTP ie cctv and released photo in the AC bar show quite the opposite. At no time were David and Hanna shown to be together.

The truth is David was walking near his accommodation and heard Hanna in distress, because he was a conscientious gentleman he went to her aid and was brutally murdered.

"The truth is David was walking near his accommodation and heard Hanna in distress, because he was a conscientious gentleman he went to her aid and was brutally murdered."

Your speculation is not "the truth", unless you were there and saw that you are simply making things up. If you were there and saw that, have already contacted the Burmese lawyers to give your testimony?

Shrill again, AleG? We all admit we weren't at the scene. We're assessing all the evidence and claims which have come forth (some of which are contrived by authorities), and we're putting forth plausible scenarios. You're welcome to do the same, if you choose. We're not in a court of law.

Is this The Truth, yes or no?

"The truth is David was walking near his accommodation and heard Hanna in distress, because he was a conscientious gentleman he went to her aid and was brutally murdered."

I fully expect you to dodge the question.

[DM07]

Of course they were tested at the first round (see link below), as you say, they worked at the AC bar and even admitted being near the crime scene at the beach. There was NO MATCH period! Anybody that thinks different is IMO completely out their mind. Unfortunately they were the perfect scapegoats for Captain Eureka.

It has been pointed out here how easy it is to swap DNA samples and IMHO these B2 are 1000% not guilty. B3 said they were sleeping like babies around 5.00am, they didn't flee the island, just went on with their work the next day and had no bruises or scratches whatsoever. Not one microscopic bit of blood was found on them nor found at their room ever.

Anybody involved in this cover up should be locked away for a very very long time and the people responsible for this crime, I expect around 3 to 4 wannabee badboys partying with Mon & Nomsod, should be locked away for-good. Free the B2, NOW!

http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-222707-0-29886800-1418613273.jpg

I think that we can safely say that no blood (from either of the victims) were found on them (presumably, they would have had showers / baths from the time of the crime till their arrest) but we do not know for sure that the RTP did not "discover" blood in their rooms.

This could well be another piece of "evidence" that "appears strong and convincing"

p/s: note that use of apostrophes (hope I got the spelling right) and make of them whatever you will

Deleted...because I was too late!

Edited December 16, 2014 by DM07

[Willy Eckerslike]

The RTP have said the Burmese raped because they became aroused when they witnessed the British couple been intimate on the beach.

Insulting lies, Hanna and David were never an item, indeed all the evidence shown by the RTP ie cctv and released photo in the AC bar show quite the opposite. At no time were David and Hanna shown to be together.

The truth is David was walking near his accommodation and heard Hanna in distress, because he was a conscientious gentleman he went to her aid and was brutally murdered.

"The truth is David was walking near his accommodation and heard Hanna in distress, because he was a conscientious gentleman he went to her aid and was brutally murdered."

Your speculation is not "the truth", unless you were there and saw that you are simply making things up. If you were there and saw that, have already contacted the Burmese lawyers to give your testimony?

Shrill again, AleG? We all admit we weren't at the scene. We're assessing all the evidence and claims which have come forth (some of which are contrived by authorities), and we're putting forth plausible scenarios. You're welcome to do the same, if you choose. We're not in a court of law.

Is this The Truth, yes or no?

"The truth is David was walking near his accommodation and heard Hanna in distress, because he was a conscientious gentleman he went to her aid and was brutally murdered."

I fully expect you to dodge the question.

I think and, I will repeat that, I think, what BoristheBlade said is closer to the truth than....................two small Burmese men sitting on a log +/- 35 meters from the so called murder scene became aroused by something they probably couldn't see due to it being dark, decided to return the guitar to the AC bar because they didn't want to return it later as they would be / might be, covered in blood and wouldn't want to raise suspicions.............. then went ahead and did what some people said they did, after which they toddled off to bed and slept to be awoken by their friend at circa 05:00 and asked where the guitar was, got up got dressed and went to work as normal not displaying any signs of being in a fracas...........................Yea Right................

Edited December 16, 2014 by Willy Eckerslike

[boomerangutang]

The RTP have said the Burmese raped because they became aroused when they witnessed the British couple been intimate on the beach.

Insulting lies, Hanna and David were never an item, indeed all the evidence shown by the RTP ie cctv and released photo in the AC bar show quite the opposite. At no time were David and Hanna shown to be together.

The truth is David was walking near his accommodation and heard Hanna in distress, because he was a conscientious gentleman he went to her aid and was brutally murdered.

"The truth is David was walking near his accommodation and heard Hanna in distress, because he was a conscientious gentleman he went to her aid and was brutally murdered."

Your speculation is not "the truth", unless you were there and saw that you are simply making things up. If you were there and saw that, have already contacted the Burmese lawyers to give your testimony?

Shrill again, AleG? We all admit we weren't at the scene. We're assessing all the evidence and claims which have come forth (some of which are contrived by authorities), and we're putting forth plausible scenarios. You're welcome to do the same, if you choose. We're not in a court of law.

Is this The Truth, yes or no?

"The truth is David was walking near his accommodation and heard Hanna in distress, because he was a conscientious gentleman he went to her aid and was brutally murdered."

I fully expect you to dodge the question.

I didn't write that sentence you quoted, but it's not far from the truth. The scenario I picture is as follows:

David and Hannah were walking along the beach. Some of AC bar punks were with them (one or more of the following: Nomsod, Mon, the Stingray man, the cop who threatened Sean). David was probably not walking directly alongside Hannah. (Note: men bent on rape will want to separate their target from anyone who may want to defend her). I think one of the culprits, probably the Stingray man, diverted David's attention and tried to gently steer him away from Hannah. Meanwhile the gaggle of horny drunk men globbed around Hannah. They initially tried to get her to comply (it's probable she was plied with date-rape drug earlier). When she didn't comply, they used force. David heard her cries, started to go to her aid, and was attacked (possibly from behind) and punctured in the neck several times with a sharp shallow blade. There's more I could add, but that addresses AleG's Q to Boris.

[AleG]

Is this The Truth, yes or no?

"The truth is David was walking near his accommodation and heard Hanna in distress, because he was a conscientious gentleman he went to her aid and was brutally murdered."

I fully expect you to dodge the question.

I didn't write that sentence you quoted, but it's not far from the truth. The scenario I picture is as follows:

David and Hannah were walking along the beach. Some of AC bar punks were with them (one or more of the following: Nomsod, Mon, the Stingray man, the cop who threatened Sean). David was probably not walking directly alongside Hannah. (Note: men bent on rape will want to separate their target from anyone who may want to defend her). I think one of the culprits, probably the Stingray man, diverted David's attention and tried to gently steer him away from Hannah. Meanwhile the gaggle of horny drunk men globbed around Hannah. They initially tried to get her to comply (it's probable she was plied with date-rape drug earlier). When she didn't comply, they used force. David heard her cries, started to go to her aid, and was attacked (possibly from behind) and punctured in the neck several times with a sharp shallow blade. There's more I could add, but that addresses AleG's Q to Boris.

Surprise surprise, you dodged the question... and then run back into your fantasy world.

[siampolee]

AlecG post # 567

Surprise surprise, you dodged the question... and then run back into your fantasy world.

Truth be known that fact is that the person you accuse of being on a fantasy world is probably a darn sight nearer the truth that you will or can accept and admit to.

Now you run back to your fantasy world.

[jdinasia]

The RTP have said the Burmese raped because they became aroused when they witnessed the British couple been intimate on the beach.

Insulting lies, Hanna and David were never an item, indeed all the evidence shown by the RTP ie cctv and released photo in the AC bar show quite the opposite. At no time were David and Hanna shown to be together.

The truth is David was walking near his accommodation and heard Hanna in distress, because he was a conscientious gentleman he went to her aid and was brutally murdered.

"the truth is.."

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

[stephen terry]

These are the known facts: the victims were found murdered on the beach. There is a RTP premise that marks in the sand indicate that the female victim was dragged some distance. The 3rd Burmese man is a witness that the B2 were on that beach c. <50 metres from the murder scene. The B2 admit that.

?? questionable facts: there is a report (above post) from a source that the victims were seen partying with about 6 people on that beach - but that source has not been substantiated. It is a feasible scenario, though, given the nature of the island's reputation. All other posts on here relating to the beach scenario are guesses, albeit possible, e.g. Sean stated that David would come to the aid of Hannah, or similar.

If the above police premise is factual, and there is evidence of the body being moved and being placed in an extreme position, why would either of the B2 do that? Or be capable of doing that? Isn't that someone who wants revenge/or to humiliate? I hope the defence can use that in their quest to prove innocence. Lust and robbery are not a motivation for brutal killing.