Smoke, Smog, Dust 2015 Chiang Mai

[evenstevens]

From CM108 near 700 Stadium. More photos CM108 Google Translate (Photos by the Community Ariya Non).

Great photo-and just look at all that cr*p above the flames going into our atmosphere. Absolutely crazy.

Every year the government talks and wrings its hands and every year nothing changes.

What will it take when the wil to change doesn't exist?

The irony of it is that the Chiang Mai governor's office is very close to this.

edited due to malfunction of submitting original post

so here we go again

as i said in my last post its right on governors door step, perhaps 2../.3 ks as the crow flys, beverly hills, mae rim goverment outpost,has a better view then the governors office, the burns in this area ARE under neath their cotton picking noses

u can bet, london to brick on

that the zoo,s policy will also apply here which is .WHO GIVES A FLUFF

Edited March 11, 2015 by evenstevens

[vivid]

January last year I shopped around in CM for air purifiers. There are various price ranges of air purifiers available, from cheaper Korean brands (Samsung), or even the Chinese Hatari which I also think I saw somewhere, to more expensive stuff from Canadian Bionaire, and some European brand also if I remember correctly.

From what I read, some air purifiers give of ozone or other harmful things, so I wanted to get one that had been tested by something reputable to not do that. I'm sure I paid way over the top, but I bought Blueair, ordered from Bangkok as I could not find it locally in Chiang Mai. Phillips also had a model available in Thailand with good reviews, but the price difference was not too big compared to the comparable Blueair model I was looking at.

Basically Blueair (and IQAir, also available in Thailand I think) was in the top 3-5 of any test I found, Consumer Reports USA included, if reviewed at all. At the time I was getting very bored with spending a lot of time trying to cross-check air purifiers I could find in the various local shops here against reviews on the net, so just caved in and bought what I assumed was some of the best I could get.

After testing (with the Dylos) both 3M filtrete and the air purifier, getting an air purifier was a no-brainer for me, though that was based on efficiency only, not price. With your calculations, it looks like one of those air purifiers will be cheaper also, even in the not so long run.

The replacements for my Blueair model were 7,000B last I checked, scheduled for replacement after 180 days it says, so the calculation is a little different there.

The Blueair model I got (650) is speced for > 765m^3/hour, but even this one I have to run at the max power in the bedroom these days. Generates an awful amount of noise, which surprisingly enough does not prevent anyone from falling a sleep. Even at that setting, the Dylos reports pm2.5 readings up to 4000 now though. Still, that's a tenth of what is outside the very poorly isolated room, so it seems to be doing its job.

Hi awk,

Actually, your blueair HEPA can be replaced every 12 months or even more if you really wanna push it, even though the annual PM2.5/PM10 levels are quite high. The HEPA filter is quite a big and deep unit (3pcs total), it can certainly hold a lot of PM before noticing a drop in airflow.

The reason why blueair and some other brands recommend 6 months / 180 days is that the HEPA cleans even germ and virus sticking on aerosols in addition to pollen and mold particles. Mold particles can grow and compromise the HEPA media (just as how mold can compromise lens coatings), one compromised then secondary pollution can occur as these partculates and germs/viruses are released. But it's no a big issue, so ultimately it depends on the size of your wallet.

Wow, 650E 765m/3hr machine. Would take 2.5 units of Samsung AX40 to equal that (6200 x 2.5 = 15,500 baht).

90% cleaner than external is decent, I presume your room is at least 30 sqm and 3.5m high? Usually I get approx. 90-95% vs outside, but after 2013's PM10 of 500ug/m3 (3hrs average) and PM2.5 292 ug/m3 (24-hr), we did not get thick haze. (2014 we had haze of PM2.5 60-131 ug/m3 but lasted very long for 3 months intermittently).

Take yesterday's peak in Chiang Mai of 368 ug/m3 PM2.5 1-hr, that means you can clean it to 36 ug/m3 in your "leaky" room, which is very breatheable.

China's apolcalypse was 990 ug/m3 PM2.5, still 99 ug/m3.

In our household, I have mild allergic rhinitis but mainly my reaction to Indonesian haze = terrible headaches. I mean, I can't take paracetamol for nearly 3 months, I think my liver would be dead first.

My wife has slightly high platelet count, but still does not need any blood thining agent as she's young. But the stroke and cardiac problems risk is slightly higher than the general population. Lastly, my mother in law is on blood thinning medication called warfarin due to a cardiac issue and operation before. Hence the risk is high for her.

I have the following operating in 2 homes as my kids shutter between my parent's house and mine.

Sharp KC-840 (210 m3/hr)

Sharp -Z31 (180 m3/hr)

Sharp A28 (160 m3/hr)

Samsung AX40 (323 m3/hr)

Novita NAP501 (250 m3/hr)

LG LA-Q379SB (I think approx. 300 m3/hr)

Approx 30 pieces of replacement HEPA filters sourced from China Taobao. Cheap stuff, but still quite high in efficiency and decent airflow

5 pieces of long Velcro so that I can tape them in front of the fan, during emergency use....so that I can filter the whole house.

You can see such things on youtube (DIY HEPA) and China households. The airflow is pretty low, but it definitely works according to my wind meter + laser particle counter.

Bonus pic : Peatland fires of Indonesia. If I am not wrong,it's number 1 for smoke particles and CO2 emission per kg burned. You can have a small fire but heckloads of emission.

Within 10-20km downwind of the hotspots, you get anything from 1000 to 4000ug/m3 of PM10 depending on the size and intensity of the fire. Yes you read that correctly, 1000 to 4000 ug/m3 PM10.

It is estimated that in 1997, peat and forest fires in Indonesia released between 0.81 and 2.57 Gt of carbon; equivalent to 13–40 percent of the amount released by global fossil fuel burning

Edited March 11, 2015 by vivid

[T_Dog]

Could this be our chance?

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2015/03/11/junta-sets-24-hour-complaint-hotline-foreigners

[beau thai]

The golf courses are suddenly down from 200 players daily to less than 50. For the ease of round number maths, that's about 1000 fewer every day across 6-10 courses, with each round over 2000 baht, plus food/drink/buggies/caddy fees etc

A drop in income of over 2million baht a day for so long as this cr*p air quality continues.

But somehow I doubt that any course owners have called the Governor of CM to ask <deleted> he is doing about the burn-offs. Because they know the answer-SFA.

I have never felt so tired as after my 4 hour golf walk on Tuesday- too little oxygen. Like climbing at altitude.

[vivid]

Excellent post and worth quoting.

It is important to understand the difference between PM<10 and PM<2.5 standards because it is PM<2.5 pollution that has the really serious effect on health. The difference in impacts on short and long-term exposure on health are actively researched. That can be Googled.

Standards do vary from country to country as to the different effects on health. Some prefer American EPA, EU, WHO standards, and some prefer some easier standards, which are a perverse reflection as to what is achievable, given national circumstances, in targets for reduction.

Looking locally, one discomfiting result of research on burning rice straw is that the concentration of PM<2.5 is higher than the "norm" of 40 - 60% of PM<10. You won't be pleased with comparing the two standards as reported at Site 36T, Chiang Mai, where data for PM<2.5 is reported, an innovation this year.

To the governor: Think globally, ACT locally!

WHO has a PM10 recommendation of no more than 50 ug/m3 for 24-hr mean. Annual mean no more than 40 ug/m3.

WHO has a PM2.5 recommendation of no more than 25 ug/m3 for 24-hr mean. Annual mean of no more than 10 ug/m3.

Western Australia DER has a PM2.5 recommendation of no more than 25 ug/m3 for 24-hr mean. Annual mean of no more than PM2.5 8 ug/m3. That's crazy strict!

I just checked aqmthai, other than 36t, there are like 10 other stations that are reporting PM2.5 also. Just check the even number stations. 36t is the worst affected. I can't read Thai, but I think I read that it's located in the city centre of Chiang Mai in a school compound or something (don't take my word as 100% though).

Yes, it really depends on what is being burned, and also the distance from the hotspot. When you are nearer to the hotspots, the PM10 figure really spikes way up. I mentioned before, 10-20km downwind from a hotspot, it could spike to 4000ug/m3 PM10. 2013 Singapore haze, Riau province hotspots 200km away, PM10 levels were way higher than PM2.5. 2014 Singapore haze, South Sumatra + Kalimantan province hotspots are 700-1400km away, PM2.5 levels are elevated while PM10 didn't get registered much.

In China, Shanghai, they are now even researching into the PM0.1 group called Ultra Fine Particles. No thanks to NO2 and SO2 (cars, heavy industries in China) photochemical reaction with the sun that creates photochemical smog. Together with an inversion layer, that could be quite devastating. The toxicity of those particles are waaaaayyyyyyy worse than biomass or forest/grass burning.

That 1st March 2015 "Under the Dome" video on youtube is really telling of the lives of people in China really getting screwed up.

[vivid]

I have never felt so tired as after my 4 hour golf walk on Tuesday- too little oxygen. Like climbing at altitude.

Sir, I salute you. 4 hours walk on Tue with PM2.5 ranging from 200+ to 300+ ug/m3.

[vivid]

China does censor, but not for this.

A few years ago the Chinese government made a fuss because the US Embassy had their own monitoring equipment and was warning the US citizens of the danger. Perhaps the Chinese government has decided to come clean now.

Great, so you have read about this too.

>> The same thing happened between Beijing environment ministry vs US Embassy before Beijing authorities adopted the PM2.5 standard. The 2 health advisories were always like a day and night difference.

You can read about it all here :

https://www.chinadia...rder=old&page=2

http://www.ebeijing....te/t1212024.htm

What I could google is that Thailand also has PM2.5 figures, they recorded it but never published it. However, I cannot vouch for the authenticity of this report.

The same thingy happened to Singapore too before the govt agency published hourly PM2.5 concentration ug/m3 from 1st April 2014 and subsumed it into the PSI index figure (it was reported separately but not factored into the PSI figure, hence does not affect it even if PM2.5 is crazy high).

2009 wikileak

https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09CHIANGMAI38_a.html

9. Doctors are also urging the RTG's Pollution Control Department (PCD) to release data on an additional measuring stick of hazardous air: PM2.5. The PCD currently records but does not release these figure. Recent studies show that inhaling PM2.5 (fine particulate matter sized 2.5 microns and smaller, a subset of PM10) carries higher and longer-term risks than PM10. As a result, activists are calling on the PCD to publicize PM2.5 measurements along with PM10. At Chiang Mai's three air quality monitoring stations, PM2.5 measurements are collected and transmitted to the PCD in Bangkok. However, due to RTG regulations, the data cannot be released without approval from the PCD's board. Because of increasing pressure from environmentalists and civil society groups, the PCD expects to get approval to release the PM2.5 data, but did not say when and for what period of time.

Edited March 11, 2015 by vivid

[beau thai]

I have never felt so tired as after my 4 hour golf walk on Tuesday- too little oxygen. Like climbing at altitude.

Sir, I salute you. 4 hours walk on Tue with PM2.5 ranging from 200+ to 300+ ug/m3.

Probably stupidity. The day before, my tennis coach used a mask , as did my golf partner but I dont feel the need, although I guess it would be more sensible.

[vivid]

Perhaps pictures would best illustrate it :

Ok, maybe posting this picture would make it all look much clearer. PM2.5 and PM10 graphs

[evenstevens]

The golf courses are suddenly down from 200 players daily to less than 50. For the ease of round number maths, that's about 1000 fewer every day across 6-10 courses, with each round over 2000 baht, plus food/drink/buggies/caddy fees etc

A drop in income of over 2million baht a day for so long as this cr*p air quality continues.

But somehow I doubt that any course owners have called the Governor of CM to ask <deleted> he is doing about the burn-offs. Because they know the answer-SFA.

I have never felt so tired as after my 4 hour golf walk on Tuesday- too little oxygen. Like climbing at altitude.

strike me pink B/T

that is indeed a commendable staying acheivement,18 holes in this ????

rekindles my champion racing days, all heart

tell u something cobber, beverly hills has been that been so bad, that my beerlao dark turns flat within minutes of lifting the top

i gonna take that up with the govenor, fluff the rest.

beverly hills maerim smog report at 5.30 pm..smog residing to be best for 2 days..a light breeeze has kicked in

[beau thai]

Hope I am not breaching any TV protocols, but if you care to google CityLife Chiang Mai you can read an interview with the governor published today about smoke and other issues. From which it is clear that 2016 will be no different.

[T_Dog]

Hope I am not breaching any TV protocols, but if you care to google CityLife Chiang Mai you can read an interview with the governor published today about smoke and other issues. From which it is clear that 2016 will be no different.

Good article. The forests all around Chiang Mai are scorched and they have only arrested one person? The fire starters are easy to find if you are out there looking for them, but that is not the government's motivation. (The locals starting the fires do not use sophisticated techniques whatsoever from what I have seen.) The government would rather blame it on neighboring countries until the rains and winds do come. Pathetic response to an easily solved problem, but you are right, it will likely be the same for decades to come.

Edited March 11, 2015 by T_Dog

[beau thai]

The golf courses are suddenly down from 200 players daily to less than 50. For the ease of round number maths, that's about 1000 fewer every day across 6-10 courses, with each round over 2000 baht, plus food/drink/buggies/caddy fees etc

A drop in income of over 2million baht a day for so long as this cr*p air quality continues.

But somehow I doubt that any course owners have called the Governor of CM to ask <deleted> he is doing about the burn-offs. Because they know the answer-SFA.

I have never felt so tired as after my 4 hour golf walk on Tuesday- too little oxygen. Like climbing at altitude.

strike me pink B/T

that is indeed a commendable staying acheivement,18 holes in this ????

rekindles my champion racing days, all heart

tell u something cobber, beverly hills has been that been so bad, that my beerlao dark turns flat within minutes of lifting the top

i gonna take that up with the govenor, fluff the rest.

beverly hills maerim smog report at 5.30 pm..smog residing to be best for 2 days..a light breeeze has kicked in

'my beerlao dark turns flat within minutes of lifting the top' Evens mate, you are just drinking way too slow. You know they say slow drinkers live longer? That's no good is it!

[vivid]

11 March 2015.

[vivid]

The ASMC image is probably the same as the interactive tool on GFWF with high confidence fires ticked. I use this for tracking Indonesian hotspots in Sumatra and Kalimantan.

http://fires.globalforestwatch.org/#v=map&x=102.69&y=0.99&l=14&lyrs=Active_Fires%3ALandSat_8%3ADigital_Globe&dirty=true

Check on the Imagery tab on the left and uncheck "Latest Landsat 8 imagery" checkbox.

Else you'd be shown satellite real land surface imagery and it's very difficult to see.

The brightness indicates the size/intensity of the fire at the hotspot. The Indonesian hotspots go up to as high as 400 levels.

Edited March 11, 2015 by vivid

[vivid]

Chiang Mai is surrounded by hotspot clusters both east and west. Some are in the 350+ brightness range, quite sizeable hotspots. Being surround by mountains + if an inversion layer happens = no fun.

[Awk]

January last year I shopped around in CM for air purifiers. There are various price ranges of air purifiers available, from cheaper Korean brands (Samsung), or even the Chinese Hatari which I also think I saw somewhere, to more expensive stuff from Canadian Bionaire, and some European brand also if I remember correctly.

From what I read, some air purifiers give of ozone or other harmful things, so I wanted to get one that had been tested by something reputable to not do that. I'm sure I paid way over the top, but I bought Blueair, ordered from Bangkok as I could not find it locally in Chiang Mai. Phillips also had a model available in Thailand with good reviews, but the price difference was not too big compared to the comparable Blueair model I was looking at.

Basically Blueair (and IQAir, also available in Thailand I think) was in the top 3-5 of any test I found, Consumer Reports USA included, if reviewed at all. At the time I was getting very bored with spending a lot of time trying to cross-check air purifiers I could find in the various local shops here against reviews on the net, so just caved in and bought what I assumed was some of the best I could get.

After testing (with the Dylos) both 3M filtrete and the air purifier, getting an air purifier was a no-brainer for me, though that was based on efficiency only, not price. With your calculations, it looks like one of those air purifiers will be cheaper also, even in the not so long run.

The replacements for my Blueair model were 7,000B last I checked, scheduled for replacement after 180 days it says, so the calculation is a little different there.

The Blueair model I got (650) is speced for > 765m^3/hour, but even this one I have to run at the max power in the bedroom these days. Generates an awful amount of noise, which surprisingly enough does not prevent anyone from falling a sleep. Even at that setting, the Dylos reports pm2.5 readings up to 4000 now though. Still, that's a tenth of what is outside the very poorly isolated room, so it seems to be doing its job.

Hi awk,

Actually, your blueair HEPA can be replaced every 12 months or even more if you really wanna push it, even though the annual PM2.5/PM10 levels are quite high. The HEPA filter is quite a big and deep unit (3pcs total), it can certainly hold a lot of PM before noticing a drop in airflow.

The reason why blueair and some other brands recommend 6 months / 180 days is that the HEPA cleans even germ and virus sticking on aerosols in addition to pollen and mold particles. Mold particles can grow and compromise the HEPA media (just as how mold can compromise lens coatings), one compromised then secondary pollution can occur as these partculates and germs/viruses are released. But it's no a big issue, so ultimately it depends on the size of your wallet.

Wow, 650E 765m/3hr machine. Would take 2.5 units of Samsung AX40 to equal that (6200 x 2.5 = 15,500 baht).

90% cleaner than external is decent, I presume your room is at least 30 sqm and 3.5m high? Usually I get approx. 90-95% vs outside, but after 2013's PM10 of 500ug/m3 (3hrs average) and PM2.5 292 ug/m3 (24-hr), we did not get thick haze. (2014 we had haze of PM2.5 60-131 ug/m3 but lasted very long for 3 months intermittently).

Take yesterday's peak in Chiang Mai of 368 ug/m3 PM2.5 1-hr, that means you can clean it to 36 ug/m3 in your "leaky" room, which is very breatheable.

China's apolcalypse was 990 ug/m3 PM2.5, still 99 ug/m3.

In our household, I have mild allergic rhinitis but mainly my reaction to Indonesian haze = terrible headaches. I mean, I can't take paracetamol for nearly 3 months, I think my liver would be dead first.

My wife has slightly high platelet count, but still does not need any blood thining agent as she's young. But the stroke and cardiac problems risk is slightly higher than the general population. Lastly, my mother in law is on blood thinning medication called warfarin due to a cardiac issue and operation before. Hence the risk is high for her.

I have the following operating in 2 homes as my kids shutter between my parent's house and mine.

Sharp KC-840 (210 m3/hr)

Sharp -Z31 (180 m3/hr)

Sharp A28 (160 m3/hr)

Samsung AX40 (323 m3/hr)

Novita NAP501 (250 m3/hr)

LG LA-Q379SB (I think approx. 300 m3/hr)

Approx 30 pieces of replacement HEPA filters sourced from China Taobao. Cheap stuff, but still quite high in efficiency and decent airflow

5 pieces of long Velcro so that I can tape them in front of the fan, during emergency use....so that I can filter the whole house.

You can see such things on youtube (DIY HEPA) and China households. The airflow is pretty low, but it definitely works according to my wind meter + laser particle counter.

Hmm, more like 25m^3 x 3m I guess. Unfortunately, most middle-class houses in CM are of fairly poor quality, especially what concerns isolation, and we can't even shut all the 8 windows in the bedroom properly. And those that we can shut properly still leak around the edges, so no easy task for any air purifier. Probably the improvement is a little better than 90%, but almost 4,000 for the particle count inside and 40,000+ outside is the worst I can remember seeing. E.g., this morning it was around 25,000 outside, and around 1500-1600 inside, which is closer to a 95% improvement.

The Blueair is quite expensive unfortunately. If your calculation regarding your Samsung units are correct, The Blueair is more than twice as expensive for the same CADR, or at least was when I bought our units last year. If you are happy with your units, they seem to be a much better choice to recommend for most. If I need to buy additional units, I will perhaps try to find something cheaper, though I am happy with the Blueair units and it does give me some peace of mind.

I did some measurements (posted on the thread for 2014 here I think) with a similar contraption to the fan you show last year myself, using one of the 3M Filtrete variants though, and not a hepa-filter. Yes, that worked too, and if I could afford neither AC nor Air purifier, I would use it. Otherwise, too noisy.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Awk

[vivid]

Hmm, more like 25m^3 x 3m I guess. Unfortunately, most middle-class houses in CM are of fairly poor quality, especially what concerns isolation, and we can't even shut all the 8 windows in the bedroom properly. And those that we can shut properly still leak around the edges, so no easy task for any air purifier. Probably the improvement is a little better than 90%, but almost 4,000 for the particle count inside and 40,000+ outside is the worst I can remember seeing. E.g., this morning it was around 25,000 outside, and around 1500-1600 inside, which is closer to a 95% improvement.

That's like 10 ACH/Air Changes per Hour in your room with Blueair 650E when operating at high speed. It's already more than enough, 4-5 is already excellent. I guess the room is pretty leaky esp if there are winds.

In an ISO cleanroom, air changes ranges from 10 ACH to several hundreds of times. Our local govt hospital burns unit spec at 20 ACHs. ICUs don't need that much ACH though.

My current room with 2 air purifiers has only 30-90 particles per litre @ 0.5 microns. (you are looking at your 0.5 microns number right?)

Externally, since 5PM, its been 3-8 ug/m3 for PM2.5 on the govt agency's website. Excellent night after the showers. Last night it got as low as 1 ug/m3.

Edited March 11, 2015 by vivid

[mviolin]

Hi Vivid,

We have been trying to bring some awareness to the problem at our kids' school and it seems that people are becoming more receptive to the issue.

From what I understand you do have a reader. Does it show 2.5micron reading ? Could you tell me where you bought it, its brand and costs ?

I was wondering if maybe you'd consider coming to our school to take some measurements (we're close to the airport)? Sorry for the direct question, but I fear that until we get the reader, pollution might be gone or down to a more acceptable level...

Some Filtrete filters have been installed on some A/C units in some classrooms for lack of a better solution. But now parents are mentioning using air purifiers, DYI Hepa system, and it'd be great to be able to see if it does make a difference.

From your comments, I see that you did the testing at your place, but some parents need to see it to believe it...

Thanks in advance !

Hmm, more like 25m^3 x 3m I guess. Unfortunately, most middle-class houses in CM are of fairly poor quality, especially what concerns isolation, and we can't even shut all the 8 windows in the bedroom properly. And those that we can shut properly still leak around the edges, so no easy task for any air purifier. Probably the improvement is a little better than 90%, but almost 4,000 for the particle count inside and 40,000+ outside is the worst I can remember seeing. E.g., this morning it was around 25,000 outside, and around 1500-1600 inside, which is closer to a 95% improvement.

That's like 10 ACH/Air Changes per Hour in your room with Blueair 650E when operating at high speed. It's already more than enough, 4-5 is already excellent. I guess the room is pretty leaky esp if there are winds.

In an ISO cleanroom, air changes ranges from 10 ACH to several hundreds of times. Our local govt hospital burns unit spec at 20 ACHs. ICUs don't need that much ACH though.

My current room with 2 air purifiers has only 30-90 particles per litre @ 0.5 microns. (you are looking at your 0.5 microns number right?)

Externally, since 5PM, its been 3-8 ug/m3 for PM2.5 on the govt agency's website. Excellent night after the showers. Last night it got as low as 1 ug/m3.

[uptheos]

Great interview by Pim in City Life.

As usual it's everyone elses fault.

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/citynews/

[blueyeshk]

Hey you numbers loving guys out there why not tell us what the numbers under EU air quality standards really mean to health instead of using this asian Mickey Mouse standards

[evenstevens]

Great interview by Pim in City Life.

As usual it's everyone elses fault.

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/citynews/

yes totally agreed

at least she fired from the hip,deserves a lot of credit for doing so

perhaps the CMEC can learn from pim. s experience on how to approach their next meeting (if any)with the zoo

as the real hard questions were not delivered, at their fancy do at the le merdian last october

another first for me,was the governor bay of bengal comment, gosh what next

10 am smog report, beverly hills , mae rim. just a tad better then previous days

[vivid]

Hi Vivid,

We have been trying to bring some awareness to the problem at our kids' school and it seems that people are becoming more receptive to the issue.

From what I understand you do have a reader. Does it show 2.5micron reading ? Could you tell me where you bought it, its brand and costs ?

I was wondering if maybe you'd consider coming to our school to take some measurements (we're close to the airport)? Sorry for the direct question, but I fear that until we get the reader, pollution might be gone or down to a more acceptable level...

Some Filtrete filters have been installed on some A/C units in some classrooms for lack of a better solution. But now parents are mentioning using air purifiers, DYI Hepa system, and it'd be great to be able to see if it does make a difference.

From your comments, I see that you did the testing at your place, but some parents need to see it to believe it...

Thanks in advance !

Hi mviolin,

I live in Singapore which is "between" Peninsula Malaysia and Indonesia, so it'd be impossible for me to volunteer my services.

Doing 1 x air purifier test in a room is going to take time (some 20-30 mins video to really see results) and i think the parents at your kids' school aren't going to hang around for so long to watch the whole vid.

No worries, youtube to the rescue. This is a 10 min video, the 8 x air purifiers are switched on at the 3:00min mark and by 9:00 you already can see the left side 1300 number drop to single digits ie 99.x% clean. This is done in a regular sized room. What does this 99.x% clean mean? It means that an absolutely crazy foul air of 368ug/m3 PM2.5 peak at City Hall Chiang Mai on 10th March morning is going to be cleaned to a mountain fresh kind of air at 3 ug/m3 within 6 minutes with 8 air purifiers in a regular sized room.

Of course you are not going to buy 8 x APs, but 1 or 2 APs correct sized for the room would work within say 30 mins time.

10 min video, action starts from 3 minute mark to 9th minute mark :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBAdXLTAdQ8

This is a Sharp air purifier removing extremely dense smoke (probably hundreds of thousands of ug/m3), but it's done in a small box so as to enhance and fast forward the process. This is a fast "visual" demo to prove that it works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnsInYoHEOs

Since it's going to be operating in a school compound, do remember to source for something in which you can stock up on the replacement filters. You probably would need to change 1 x HEPA filter for every haze season from end Jan to maybe end March.

Additional info : an air purifier would only work if the room's doors and windows are closed. It can be a bit "leaky" when the wind blows, but it's still alright. That means air conditioning is a must.

However, if the air conditioning is centralised, that means it would not work as well. In that case, you may need to ask your building's facility management to upgrade the filters in AHU or air handling unit. F7 to F9 grade filters would already do wonders, especially F9. Using H10-H12 grade "HEPA" filters would not be cost effective for centralised air conditioning.

Depending on your budget, it is always good to over-spec the air purifier a little bit. Eg, if your classroom is 80 sqm, then get 2 x 50 sqm rated air purifers

Still, any air purifier is better than no air purifier.

3M Filtrete aircon filter works less effectively, and at your current haze levels, it tends to clog within 3-4 days probably. The replacement filter costs aren't going to be cheap in this sense for 2 months.

N95 masks don't work for such long periods and are very uncomfortable, hence the kids will just rip them off. Besides, even the smaller sizes don't really fit less than 12 year-olds or so.

It's really not recommended as it may introduce more issues esp for those with asthma, the recommendation is to let them stay indoors + reduce exertion so they breathe less.

I got my laser particle counter from Taobao, a China online website. Unfortunately it's quite impossible for them to ship to Chiang Mai, or even BKK for that matter.

[Puwa]

Here's the progression of the Governor's replies:

1. It's the wind

2. We've done everything we can

3. It's getting better

4. We've banned burning, so it's improving

5. The peasants are crafty and uncontrollable

6. Let's not rock the boat

7. It's those primitive Karen peasants from Myanmar

8. Even Singapore struggles

9. (Other issues) No, yes, not my job, not my job, I don't know anything

10. Do the government's job for us

11. Go away

[vivid]

Hey you numbers loving guys out there why not tell us what the numbers under EU air quality standards really mean to health instead of using this asian Mickey Mouse standards

You can use http://aqmthai.com/public_report.php stations 35t (PM10 only) and 36t (PM2.5 and PM10 available) for Chiang Mai i believe.

These are 1-hr figures, but you can choose a 24-hr range eg 0000h to 0000h 1 day, or 0600h-0600h etc.

In a nutshell :

WHO's recommendation for the general healthy population :

PM2.5. 24-hr averaged. Not more than 25 ug/m3.

PM10. 24-hr averaged. Not more than 50 ug/m3.

1-hr figures can be useful too. Pls do not go jogging or play golf for 4 hours if it says PM2.5 > 100 ug/m3.

Everybody's health condition is different. Elderly, pregnant ladies, infants/toddlers are much more susceptible than healthy teens or adults.

US EPA.

PM2.5 24-hr averaged. > 35 ug/m3 = Unhealthy for Sensitive Groups

> 55.5 ug/m3 = Unhealthy

> 150 ug/m3 = Very Unhealthy

> 250 ug/m3 = Hazardous

In Singapore, 3-hrs rolling average PSI (the index used here is called PSI or Pollutants Standard Index), if PM2.5 is the main pollutant and it's > 56 ug/m3, it can already be considered as Unhealthy.

> 150 ug/m3, it can be considered Very Unhealthy.

> 250 ug/m3, it can be considered Hazardous.

1 hour concentration readings are also published so that the public can better plan for their immediate activities.

Again, may i stress that everyone's health condition is different. A very susceptible asthmatic can have his asthma triggered within 45 mins of just 150 ug/m3 (happened to my colleague). This actually happened to some Singaproeans during February 1 week before chinese new year.

Edited March 12, 2015 by vivid

[mviolin]

Vivid,

Wouhaou, wasn't asking for so much ! Thanks for such thorough info.

Oups, had not seen you were in Singapore. Coming over definitely not an option.

Do you mind telling me which brand model you bought on Taobao ?

I can find a way to get it shipped over to me afterwards. That's no pbm.

Thanks again !

Hi Vivid,

We have been trying to bring some awareness to the problem at our kids' school and it seems that people are becoming more receptive to the issue.

From what I understand you do have a reader. Does it show 2.5micron reading ? Could you tell me where you bought it, its brand and costs ?

I was wondering if maybe you'd consider coming to our school to take some measurements (we're close to the airport)? Sorry for the direct question, but I fear that until we get the reader, pollution might be gone or down to a more acceptable level...

Some Filtrete filters have been installed on some A/C units in some classrooms for lack of a better solution. But now parents are mentioning using air purifiers, DYI Hepa system, and it'd be great to be able to see if it does make a difference.

From your comments, I see that you did the testing at your place, but some parents need to see it to believe it...

Thanks in advance !

Hi mviolin,

I live in Singapore which is "between" Peninsula Malaysia and Indonesia, so it'd be impossible for me to volunteer my services.

Doing 1 x air purifier test in a room is going to take time (some 20-30 mins video to really see results) and i think the parents at your kids' school aren't going to hang around for so long to watch the whole vid.

No worries, youtube to the rescue. This is a 10 min video, the 8 x air purifiers are switched on at the 3:00min mark and by 9:00 you already can see the left side 1300 number drop to single digits ie 99.x% clean. This is done in a regular sized room. What does this 99.x% clean mean? It means that an absolutely crazy foul air of 368ug/m3 PM2.5 peak at City Hall Chiang Mai on 10th March morning is going to be cleaned to a mountain fresh kind of air at 3 ug/m3 within 6 minutes with 8 air purifiers in a regular sized room.

Of course you are not going to buy 8 x APs, but 1 or 2 APs correct sized for the room would work within say 30 mins time.

10 min video, action starts from 3 minute mark to 9th minute mark :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBAdXLTAdQ8

This is a Sharp air purifier removing extremely dense smoke (probably hundreds of thousands of ug/m3), but it's done in a small box so as to enhance and fast forward the process. This is a fast "visual" demo to prove that it works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnsInYoHEOs

Since it's going to be operating in a school compound, do remember to source for something in which you can stock up on the replacement filters. You probably would need to change 1 x HEPA filter for every haze season from end Jan to maybe end March.

Additional info : an air purifier would only work if the room's doors and windows are closed. It can be a bit "leaky" when the wind blows, but it's still alright. That means air conditioning is a must.

However, if the air conditioning is centralised, that means it would not work as well. In that case, you may need to ask your building's facility management to upgrade the filters in AHU or air handling unit. F7 to F9 grade filters would already do wonders, especially F9. Using H10-H12 grade "HEPA" filters would not be cost effective for centralised air conditioning.

Depending on your budget, it is always good to over-spec the air purifier a little bit. Eg, if your classroom is 80 sqm, then get 2 x 50 sqm rated air purifers

Still, any air purifier is better than no air purifier.

3M Filtrete aircon filter works less effectively, and at your current haze levels, it tends to clog within 3-4 days probably. The replacement filter costs aren't going to be cheap in this sense for 2 months.

N95 masks don't work for such long periods and are very uncomfortable, hence the kids will just rip them off. Besides, even the smaller sizes don't really fit less than 12 year-olds or so.

It's really not recommended as it may introduce more issues esp for those with asthma, the recommendation is to let them stay indoors + reduce exertion so they breathe less.

I got my laser particle counter from Taobao, a China online website. Unfortunately it's quite impossible for them to ship to Chiang Mai, or even BKK for that matter.

[vivid]

Vivid,

Wouhaou, wasn't asking for so much ! Thanks for such thorough info.

Oups, had not seen you were in Singapore. Coming over definitely not an option.

Do you mind telling me which brand model you bought on Taobao ?

I can find a way to get it shipped over to me afterwards. That's no pbm.

Thanks again

I will send you PM, watch out for it. Think there are restrictions regarding sales links here.

One more graph (PM10 and PM2.5) from aqmthai.com run by your Thai PCD i think.

[Awk]

I have the following operating in 2 homes as my kids shutter between my parent's house and mine.

Sharp KC-840 (210 m3/hr)

Sharp -Z31 (180 m3/hr)

Sharp A28 (160 m3/hr)

Samsung AX40 (323 m3/hr)

Novita NAP501 (250 m3/hr)

LG LA-Q379SB (I think approx. 300 m3/hr)

Do you btw know if any of these have been tested regarding releasing ozone, as a by product or otherwise? I was reminded of ozone this evening when Mrs. Awk told me that perhaps it was better to just run the air purifier for half an hour or so before going to bed. The neighbour had apparently seen some program on TV that involved an air purifier, some gas (Mrs. Awk thought "ozone" sounded familiar), and a dead cat.

I comforted her by saying that I had also heard about that (ozone, not the dead cat), and that the air purifiers we had bought had been checked to not release any ozone into the room (in fact, Blueair claim it removes ozone from the room), and thus it was better to just leave them on all night.

I couldn't immediately find any reference to ozone and dead cats, but it's easy to find many references to harmful effects, including increased risk of death from very small levels of ozone, and that some air purifiers produce them. I think that might have been my main reason for buying Blueair last year; I couldn't find anything indicating that the other (and mostly, much cheaper) air purifiers availably locally had been tested with regards to releasing ozone as a by product. I think on the 2014 thread here last year somebody mentioned he had an air purifier that produced ozone intentionally (yes, that also happens), but it had a switch to enable or disable it.

[vivid]

I have the following operating in 2 homes as my kids shutter between my parent's house and mine.

Sharp KC-840 (210 m3/hr)

Sharp -Z31 (180 m3/hr)

Sharp A28 (160 m3/hr)

Samsung AX40 (323 m3/hr)

Novita NAP501 (250 m3/hr)

LG LA-Q379SB (I think approx. 300 m3/hr)

Do you btw know if any of these have been tested regarding releasing ozone, as a by product or otherwise? I was reminded of ozone this evening when Mrs. Awk told me that perhaps it was better to just run the air purifier for half an hour or so before going to bed. The neighbour had apparently seen some program on TV that involved an air purifier, some gas (Mrs. Awk thought "ozone" sounded familiar), and a dead cat.

I comforted her by saying that I had also heard about that (ozone, not the dead cat), and that the air purifiers we had bought had been checked to not release any ozone into the room (in fact, Blueair claim it removes ozone from the room), and thus it was better to just leave them on all night.

I couldn't immediately find any reference to ozone and dead cats, but it's easy to find many references to harmful effects, including increased risk of death from very small levels of ozone, and that some air purifiers produce them. I think that might have been my main reason for buying Blueair last year; I couldn't find anything indicating that the other (and mostly, much cheaper) air purifiers availably locally had been tested with regards to releasing ozone as a by product. I think on the 2014 thread here last year somebody mentioned he had an air purifier that produced ozone intentionally (yes, that also happens), but it had a switch to enable or disable it.

Oh, no worries. Samsung and Sharp ionisers do not emit appreciable ozone. Many other products don't as well. I know exactly what you are talking about and I have been asked several times as well. Anyway, I usually don't switch the ionising function on unless there's a weird smell, which is pretty rare.

You can see your Blueair 650E in the list, with a Type = 'Other', ie they recognise that it has an ioniser in it.

Please do not switch on your air purifier and then switch it off when you go to sleep. That is probably the worst way to use it, I have done several tests myself and the AP needs to maintain at least 2 ACHs after scrubbing the air clean ie decent airflow needs to be maintained after scrubbing. The PM2.5 levels have been inching up since 1800h from 80 ug/m3 to 109 ug/m3 at 2100h.

Source :

http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/indoor/aircleaners/certified.htm

The list below shows air cleaning devices certified for sale in California. We will update the list as devices are certified. Air cleaners that are listed as "Mechanical" are air cleaners that use physical filtration only and do not typically generate ozone. Air cleaners that are listed as "Other" may emit ozone, but they have been tested and found to produce an ozone emission concentration less than 0.050 parts per million. This category includes ionizers, electrostatic precipitators, other electronic filtration devices, and other air cleaners using new technologies.

Edited March 12, 2015 by vivid

[vivid]

The lowest PM2.5 concentration today was 72 ug/m3 @ 1600h. 2100h = PM2.5 109ug/m3.

Please do not for any instant think that 72 ug/m3 of PM2.5 is clean healthy air. It is not.

Over here in Singapore, 72 ug/m3 PM2.5 is still considered Unhealthy hazy air. 109 ug/m3 PM2.5 is definitely considered to be quite hazy. My colleagues/parents/regular joe on the street start to notice that it's hazy when it hits about 50-60 ug/m3 and start to dig for news and be mindful. Only the hardcore joggers go jogging when it's above 60ug/m3. Just to give you people another frame of reference.