Advice on Home Electric Problems

[Vogele123]

While you are working on getting a photo, take a look at the wiring also. Guessing it is exposed and stapled vs. conduit or inside the walls? Look for staples that may be cutting into the insulation. Are any of those terrible extension cord wheels being used to power anything? Can you determine the wire size and if the same size is used throughout?

The electric to the place is an absolute nightmare, all of the internal cables are plastered into the walls (No staples) there are various cables hooked to extensions that run into the garden, running to pumps, running to a house next door, there is the usual exposed wires and crap. I have disconnected everything other than the house wiring itself, so I guess it is something internal. I mentioned in another post that there is a definite problem with water / damp - the ceilings in parts of the house have been cut away where pipes upstairs have leaked.

I have spent two days repairing water leaks but I think that this job is just too big for me (I am not a spark or a plumber - but this old woman is pretty stuck, no one seems to want to help, she is quite poor and may not be able to pay, I have been fixing the pipes etc. at my expense as I don't think she has any money to buy any bits needed - I have a lot of odds and ends from when I built my place that I don't need so it is not a problem)

Thanks for your help all the same.

[Crossy]

With just a multimeter you are in for a long slog Any chance you could borrow or buy an insulation tester?

As someone else noted checking the resistance from every circuit to ground (a big screwdriver in the lawn) is the way to get started.

All breakers open, all neutrals disconnected, look for low resistances (less than a meg or so) to ground.

Photos would really help.

[Vogele123]

With just a multimeter you are in for a long slog Any chance you could borrow or buy an insulation tester?

As someone else noted checking the resistance from every circuit to ground (a big screwdriver in the lawn) is the way to get started.

All breakers open, all neutrals disconnected, look for low resistances (less than a meg or so) to ground.

Photos would really help.

Thanks, understand it is a bit of a long shot. I only have a multimeter, it cannot measure currents as I cannot get a replacement fuse here, and now it has packed up measuring DC! It still measures resistance and AC but I no longer really trust it 100%.

There is no way on earth I can get hold of a Megga, there just isn't any of that stuff around where I am.

I will try and get a photo, I will borrow a phone with a camera.

I really wish I had never gotten involved but I really felt sorry for the old girl. Her son and daughter are all either in Bangkok or Korea working and cannot seem to help.

The bloody house wiring is a nightmare, most of the switches for the lighting are on dimmer switches, they have rotary dimmers that when you switch them to the off position have illuminated LED or Neon type of backlights - so these are obviously drawing power even when the light switches are turned off.

The screwdriver thing sounds like it might be worth a go, however the box I need to test is about 100M from any soil and the only spare cables we have are just 1.5mm lighting cable - do you think they would work? I guess I could measure the resistance of the cable first then subtract from the measured value?

Edited December 21, 2014 by Vogele123

[scotty92]

Hello,I was just browsing and come across this maybe I can help!

Due to the fact you aren't trained I wouldn't go into testing and finding particular faults.

First of all if possible isolate(switch off) the circuit you think could be causing the problems....the circuit nearest the damp problems.

And carry on doing this individually until hopefully the circuit causing the problem is found.

If some of the as mentioned spare circuits have spare circuit breakers try swapping this for the circuit that could possibly causing the problem.

If needed change the cable feeding the circuit and leave it surface mounted inside plastic tray and of course use the relevant RCD

If the lighting used is the fluorescent tubes that are readily available these can cause problems when aged!!

Hopefully this helps and doesn't repeat anything already written

Regards

[scotty92]

Sorry I forgot to mention..as for testing the cables the best you could do with a basic resistance meter is too disconnect at all devices, connect the two ends of the cables together and resistance test them.

if all the cables are good then this could isolate the problem device for you.

[Vogele123]

Hello,I was just browsing and come across this maybe I can help!

Due to the fact you aren't trained I wouldn't go into testing and finding particular faults.

First of all if possible isolate(switch off) the circuit you think could be causing the problems....the circuit nearest the damp problems.

And carry on doing this individually until hopefully the circuit causing the problem is found.

If some of the as mentioned spare circuits have spare circuit breakers try swapping this for the circuit that could possibly causing the problem.

If needed change the cable feeding the circuit and leave it surface mounted inside plastic tray and of course use the relevant RCD

If the lighting used is the fluorescent tubes that are readily available these can cause problems when aged!!

Hopefully this helps and doesn't repeat anything already written

Regards

Thanks! I appreciate the advice!

[bankruatsteve]

So, just to try and get things straight: She has a 60a Safe-T-Cut RCBO front end (?) then it feeds to a Schneider Square-D Box (?). The D-box has a 45a RCBO (with a test switch?) and some MCB's four of which are 5a and one of which is tripping intermittently. (?) Then you set the Safe-T-Cut to 'direct'. Then, the RCBO in the D-box will trip. (?) Good so far?

First, this is a strange setup (and if the above is correct): having Safe-T-Cut RCBO in front of Schneider RCBO. FWI: The Schneider RCBO most likely has RCD set to 30ma (nonadjustable). If that is the one now tripping instantly, then there is probably some N-E or L-E fault somewhere. You can determine that by setting all the 5a etc. breakers in the D-box OFF. Then, the main breakers should not trip. One by one, turn on the 5a breakers. When the main RCBO trips, that will be your problem circuit if it is ground fault related.

If the 5a was tripping by itself, that would indicate over-current like a short or maybe somebody hooking up a welder. (?)

Insulation and resistance testing are good tests - but all they can do is tell you have a problem - which you already know that. They can't tell you where the problem is so the best you can do without a professional or re-wiring everything is to look for something obvious in the wiring and/or what is connected to the circuits.

[Vogele123]

So, just to try and get things straight: She has a 60a Safe-T-Cut RCBO front end (?) then it feeds to a Schneider Square-D Box (?). The D-box has a 45a RCBO (with a test switch?) and some MCB's four of which are 5a and one of which is tripping intermittently. (?) Then you set the Safe-T-Cut to 'direct'. Then, the RCBO in the D-box will trip. (?) Good so far?

First, this is a strange setup (and if the above is correct): having Safe-T-Cut RCBO in front of Schneider RCBO. FWI: The Schneider RCBO most likely has RCD set to 30ma (nonadjustable). If that is the one now tripping instantly, then there is probably some N-E or L-E fault somewhere. You can determine that by setting all the 5a etc. breakers in the D-box OFF. Then, the main breakers should not trip. One by one, turn on the 5a breakers. When the main RCBO trips, that will be your problem circuit if it is ground fault related.

If the 5a was tripping by itself, that would indicate over-current like a short or maybe somebody hooking up a welder. (?)

Insulation and resistance testing are good tests - but all they can do is tell you have a problem - which you already know that. They can't tell you where the problem is so the best you can do without a professional or re-wiring everything is to look for something obvious in the wiring and/or what is connected to the circuits.

Yep!

This is the way it is set up, it is their idea of "double safety". the 5A breaker for the lights was tripping when everything was all connected. The Schneider is now tripping the main 45A before the 5 A breakers. (yes, the 45A is non adjustable)

Edited December 21, 2014 by Crossy
flame removed

[wayned]

Wet/damp wiring is a real head scratcer sometimes and the answer in the end is just installing a new wiring run on the outside of the walls in plastic wire channels with pop off covers Can be painted the same as the walls but does cost.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Crossy
response to deleted post removed

[bankruatsteve]

One fairly easy task, although a bit time consuming depending on the number, is to remove the plate from all receptacles and switches (maybe start with the light switches since that seems to be the problem circuit) and check for built up dust/dirt, gecko scat, bug nests, etc. That by itself can easily trip an RCD and when wet or damp can trigger over-current - in which case there will usually be evidence of charring. If you do this, be sure to turn off the main breaker before you start. If you have a vacuum cleaner, that's the easiest way to suck out whatever might be accumulated in the box. Except you would have to turn power on to the receptacles long enough to use the vac.

Edited December 22, 2014 by bankruatsteve

[Vogele123]

One fairly easy task, although a bit time consuming depending on the number, is to remove the plate from all receptacles and switches (maybe start with the light switches since that seems to be the problem circuit) and check for built up dust/dirt, gecko scat, bug nests, etc. That by itself can easily trip an RCD and when wet or damp can trigger over-current - in which case there will usually be evidence of charring. If you do this, be sure to turn off the main breaker before you start. If you have a vacuum cleaner, that's the easiest way to suck out whatever might be accumulated in the box. Except you would have to turn power on to the receptacles long enough to use the vac.

I pulled all the cable from her upstairs light circuit and found absolutely nothing wrong. The cable was fine no nicks nothing. To be honest, I think I am as deep into this as I want to go, if she wants it sorted, then she needs a sparky!

[Vogele123]

Hello,I was just browsing and come across this maybe I can help!

Due to the fact you aren't trained I wouldn't go into testing and finding particular faults.

First of all if possible isolate(switch off) the circuit you think could be causing the problems....the circuit nearest the damp problems.

And carry on doing this individually until hopefully the circuit causing the problem is found.

If some of the as mentioned spare circuits have spare circuit breakers try swapping this for the circuit that could possibly causing the problem.

If needed change the cable feeding the circuit and leave it surface mounted inside plastic tray and of course use the relevant RCD

If the lighting used is the fluorescent tubes that are readily available these can cause problems when aged!!

Hopefully this helps and doesn't repeat anything already written

Regards

Thanks! appreciated!

[Vogele123]

One fairly easy task, although a bit time consuming depending on the number, is to remove the plate from all receptacles and switches (maybe start with the light switches since that seems to be the problem circuit) and check for built up dust/dirt, gecko scat, bug nests, etc. That by itself can easily trip an RCD and when wet or damp can trigger over-current - in which case there will usually be evidence of charring. If you do this, be sure to turn off the main breaker before you start. If you have a vacuum cleaner, that's the easiest way to suck out whatever might be accumulated in the box. Except you would have to turn power on to the receptacles long enough to use the vac.

Thanks for your help, but to be honest, I think I will just give up before I am accused of murdering her and she can probably sell her kids and chickens to pay for a sprarky.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Crossy
flame removed

[Crossy]

OK chaps, one last warning before the holidays are handed out, let's pack in the mud slinging. You know who you are.

Use the Report function if you find an objectionable post.

[sipi]

One fairly easy task, although a bit time consuming depending on the number, is to remove the plate from all receptacles and switches (maybe start with the light switches since that seems to be the problem circuit) and check for built up dust/dirt, gecko scat, bug nests, etc. That by itself can easily trip an RCD and when wet or damp can trigger over-current - in which case there will usually be evidence of charring. If you do this, be sure to turn off the main breaker before you start. If you have a vacuum cleaner, that's the easiest way to suck out whatever might be accumulated in the box. Except you would have to turn power on to the receptacles long enough to use the vac.

Thanks for your help, but to be honest, I think I will just give up before I am accused of murdering her and she can probably sell her kids and chickens to pay for a sprarky.

Hey Mate, you are a true Gentleman for even offering to help. Get a sparky to do the fault-finding, and do the repairs yourself. Might cost a few hundred baht and a bottle of Lao Khao. If I was closer I'd offer to come and give a hand. I have had no problems dealing with local tradesmen, unlike some of the "horror Stories" you read on this forum.

[Crossy]

Hey Mate, you are a true Gentleman for even offering to help. Get a sparky to do the fault-finding, and do the repairs yourself. Might cost a few hundred baht and a bottle of Lao Khao. If I was closer I'd offer to come and give a hand. I have had no problems dealing with local tradesmen, unlike some of the "horror Stories" you read on this forum.

This is what Thaivisa is all about, we try to assist one-another, if we were closer I too would be happy to go and help sort the problem.

Having the correct kit makes a massive difference when you have awkward issues.

[Vogele123]

One fairly easy task, although a bit time consuming depending on the number, is to remove the plate from all receptacles and switches (maybe start with the light switches since that seems to be the problem circuit) and check for built up dust/dirt, gecko scat, bug nests, etc. That by itself can easily trip an RCD and when wet or damp can trigger over-current - in which case there will usually be evidence of charring. If you do this, be sure to turn off the main breaker before you start. If you have a vacuum cleaner, that's the easiest way to suck out whatever might be accumulated in the box. Except you would have to turn power on to the receptacles long enough to use the vac.

Thanks for your help, but to be honest, I think I will just give up before I am accused of murdering her and she can probably sell her kids and chickens to pay for a sprarky.

Hey Mate, you are a true Gentleman for even offering to help. Get a sparky to do the fault-finding, and do the repairs yourself. Might cost a few hundred baht and a bottle of Lao Khao. If I was closer I'd offer to come and give a hand. I have had no problems dealing with local tradesmen, unlike some of the "horror Stories" you read on this forum.

Thank you, I never said I was an Spark, I never intended to cause anyone any problems, least of all some old girl in the sticks. I will get a Spark, I am sitting here with 20 Baht in my wallet (bad timing) after shelling out for school crap and motorbike helmets, nice to see how much Diesel my last 1000 Baht got me though, but I will go to the bank tomorrow, buy a new multimeter, a chicken for Christmas, a box of Chang Beer, and pay for a Sparky! Not worth the hassle eh! I need a new set of Pirellis for my bike too....Mate, thanks for your offer of help, it is appreciated most graciously, I understand the sentiment, believe me. If it was my mother stuck out in the sticks in this freezing weather I would love to think that someone may have taken a look and tried to help out.

All the best, hope you and your family have a good one!

[Vogele123]

Hey Mate, you are a true Gentleman for even offering to help. Get a sparky to do the fault-finding, and do the repairs yourself. Might cost a few hundred baht and a bottle of Lao Khao. If I was closer I'd offer to come and give a hand. I have had no problems dealing with local tradesmen, unlike some of the "horror Stories" you read on this forum.

This is what Thaivisa is all about, we try to assist one-another, if we were closer I too would be happy to go and help sort the problem.

Having the correct kit makes a massive difference when you have awkward issues.

Cheers, - my lack of knowledge is also a bit of a downer when it comes to DC and almost DC electrics, my background is RF between 2GHz. and 40GHz. not the same thing really, not a lot of amperage at 40GHz! Thanks for your input - you helped me out a few times in the past my friend ( I visited here over the past 12 years or so as another "identity" - you helped me a few years back)

Thanks for your assistance, you are probably the only guy on this entire site that I actually trust when it comes to electrics.

So wish you all the best for Christmas, make sure you have some rubber gloves on and a pair of those nice bright blue Thai Rubber Wellingtons on when you switch on your Thai Chinese Christmas tree lights.......you might need a megga! (or fire extinguisher)

TV should be about people here helping out, or at least providing a bit of help now and again, sadly over the years the site has become inhabited by rather a lot of low life keyboard armchair <deleted> that are probably sitting all day festering their hatred to anyone that posts here, probably spewing their hate because of the bad decisions they made in their lives.

take care.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Vogele123

[bankruatsteve]

If she ever does get things sorted out and you know the result, please post back as it is good for the forum to find out what solution for the problem.

Cheers.

[sipi]

Hey Mate, you are a true Gentleman for even offering to help. Get a sparky to do the fault-finding, and do the repairs yourself. Might cost a few hundred baht and a bottle of Lao Khao. If I was closer I'd offer to come and give a hand. I have had no problems dealing with local tradesmen, unlike some of the "horror Stories" you read on this forum.

This is what Thaivisa is all about, we try to assist one-another, if we were closer I too would be happy to go and help sort the problem.

Having the correct kit makes a massive difference when you have awkward issues.

Cheers, - my lack of knowledge is also a bit of a downer when it comes to DC and almost DC electrics, my background is RF between 2GHz. and 40GHz. not the same thing really, not a lot of amperage at 40GHz! Thanks for your input - you helped me out a few times in the past my friend ( I visited here over the past 12 years or so as another "identity" - you helped me a few years back)

Thanks for your assistance, you are probably the only guy on this entire site that I actually trust when it comes to electrics.

So wish you all the best for Christmas, make sure you have some rubber gloves on and a pair of those nice bright blue Thai Rubber Wellingtons on when you switch on your Thai Chinese Christmas tree lights.......you might need a megga! (or fire extinguisher)

TV should be about people here helping out, or at least providing a bit of help now and again, sadly over the years the site has become inhabited by rather a lot of low life keyboard armchair <deleted> that are probably sitting all day festering their hatred to anyone that posts here, probably spewing their hate because of the bad decisions they made in their lives.

take care.

Hey Vogele.

240 V a/c, not d/c. Same as Australia without the earth. Active and neutral. Your multimeter might be OK.

[Vogele123]

Well, an update for all of you guys that pitched in and helped with advice.

We have spent the past two days opening up every single switch, socket, and light fitting - we have cleaned out all of the cobwebs, bugs ants and other various intruders.

All of the connections have been tightened and sprayed with contact cleaner then re assembled.

The old lady is back on the Safety-Cut and it is running on the 15mA trip with absolutely no problem at all!

I managed to get her sons son (great nephew?) to come home from the city for a few days to help me on the high stuff as when you get old and decrepit, ladders are not your friend.

Thanks guys for all the help, it has been fun.......NOT!

All the best.

Edited for being a DIPSHIT - Sons son = Grandson, DOH!

Edited December 26, 2014 by Vogele123

[Crossy]

This is great news, I hope it keeps running OK.

Were there and significant intruders located, or does it just seem to be many small raids?

[Vogele123]

Hey Mate, you are a true Gentleman for even offering to help. Get a sparky to do the fault-finding, and do the repairs yourself. Might cost a few hundred baht and a bottle of Lao Khao. If I was closer I'd offer to come and give a hand. I have had no problems dealing with local tradesmen, unlike some of the "horror Stories" you read on this forum.

This is what Thaivisa is all about, we try to assist one-another, if we were closer I too would be happy to go and help sort the problem.

Having the correct kit makes a massive difference when you have awkward issues.

Cheers, - my lack of knowledge is also a bit of a downer when it comes to DC and almost DC electrics, my background is RF between 2GHz. and 40GHz. not the same thing really, not a lot of amperage at 40GHz! Thanks for your input - you helped me out a few times in the past my friend ( I visited here over the past 12 years or so as another "identity" - you helped me a few years back)

Thanks for your assistance, you are probably the only guy on this entire site that I actually trust when it comes to electrics.

So wish you all the best for Christmas, make sure you have some rubber gloves on and a pair of those nice bright blue Thai Rubber Wellingtons on when you switch on your Thai Chinese Christmas tree lights.......you might need a megga! (or fire extinguisher)

TV should be about people here helping out, or at least providing a bit of help now and again, sadly over the years the site has become inhabited by rather a lot of low life keyboard armchair <deleted> that are probably sitting all day festering their hatred to anyone that posts here, probably spewing their hate because of the bad decisions they made in their lives.

take care.

Hey Vogele.

240 V a/c, not d/c. Same as Australia without the earth. Active and neutral. Your multimeter might be OK.

Thanks but the DC on the FLUKE has certainly gone, it measures all DC as 0V, it is an old piece of kit, the 87 III "True RMS" models - good in its day, but has seen its best a long time ago. Not sure whether it even be worth getting repaired. I cannot get the correct fuse for the Current measurement circuit (someone stole it if you would believe it)

It seems OK for basic resistance and works fine for AC, just doubtful that I can trust it any more.

Cheers

[Crossy]

A Fluke, any Fluke, is always at least getting a repair estimate!

[Vogele123]

A Fluke, any Fluke, is always at least getting a repair estimate!

Cheers for all of your help, it has been appreciated.

I might just see if I can get the Fluke repaired, it was a good meter in its day.

As for critter infestation, boy it is amazing what can get into and live in an electrical outlet! Some of the socket outlets when opened looked like birds had been nesting in there.

There was literally straw and all sorts of junk in there.

I now realize why I never have "Belly Button" fluff since I came to Thailand, there must be critters that creep out at night and remove it to line their nests inside electrical sockets!

[sipi]

Hey OP.

I was worried you are angry at me...

Hope you and the family had a great XMas together.

Yes, trust Crossy on this one. He seems on the pulse.

Mate,, please message me anytime. I am a loner on this forum too. I am near Phon Cheroen in the North east. Married with a 4 year old boy.

Phil, Tuk and Morgan

[Vogele123]

Hey OP.

I was worried you are angry at me...

Hope you and the family had a great XMas together.

Yes, trust Crossy on this one. He seems on the pulse.

Mate,, please message me anytime. I am a loner on this forum too. I am near Phon Cheroen in the North east. Married with a 4 year old boy.

Phil, Tuk and Morgan

Not angry at all, don't know why you would think that - I might "vent" now and again but that goes out the window. If I offended in any way I apologise.

Hope you and your family had a good Christmas. I wouldn't say this year was the best personally - My son is almost 14, Christmas Dinner was three hot dogs. Wife was working, my son HAD to go to school - but I bought him an MSX 125 Honda (We live in the boonies/sticks) So at least now he can actually go and see his friends. There is not much in the way of nightlife (or daylife here) but I like quiet, and I certainly got my share of that.

You must be loving Christmas with a four year old eh? That is the age when it is still like magic, I used to dress in the Santa gear when my boy was that age, he sussed me out when he was about 8.

Make the most of it when they are still young, and drop me a message too, anytime, sometimes it is a bit "Lonesome" out in the wilds of Thailand.

I gave up the bars and nights out a years ago, just too much hassle to get into town. (about a 45KM run each way) Prefer Tesco Home Delivery drops me off a couple of boxes of beer now and again.

All the best to you Phil, Tuk and Morgan (good Thai name you picked out there mate...Mine is "Thomas" - great to see the Thais trying to write it in Thai, "Thor Mass"

Have a good new year, all the best to you and your family.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Vogele123