When A Farang Dies In Thailand. What Is The Procedure For Burial

[dadofsak]

I'm with willyumiii let the hospital keep your body. Tell the missus to deny any knowledge of you. Save your money. When your dead your dead and you will never know what happened

[Loaded]

It's the people left behind that want a respectful goodbye. That's the reason for ceremonies.

[bob strutt]

hi mate, now exactly how you feel, i sold up and moved out of the dump, best move i have ever made, i am 70 and have found out that i can have a great prepaid funeral here, it will be big 25k, bart,will do every thing, i have a small house here in the bush and we have some great thai funerals , they are a great party, shame i will not be there , cause i know it will be good, do not worry just have your wishs on paper, if she wants your wife can take you home in a plastc bag, my mate is letting my ashs go to the wind off the gold coast seaway, aus was once great

[dotpoom]

We are both of like mind on this one. I have given this some thought myself. I suspect a portion of the replies are flippant in nature because this subject makes some people feel uncomfortable, I don't think they are meant to be disrespectful. I don't miss anything much from back home so look forward to remaining in Thailand for the rest of my days if "Fate" allows. I too am a man of modest means and I would very much like to leave my Thai wife with enough to be able to live her life out at relative ease (if she doesn't let her adult children get hold of what's left). So, I would not only like to go the way of cremation, I see no point (speaking for myself only) in going into hospital for any prolonged period if the result was not going to give me a good quality of life . I fail to understand why so many people back home spend fortunes on hospital bills just in order to "eek" out another few months or years perhaps remaining in bed or maybe having to be waited on hand and foot. I would rather that money was there for her good self to have a better quality of life.

I wish you the very best of happiness for your remaining years and I was inspired by your gratitude and love for your wife that you expressed here. I see so many people in this life that seem to have everything going for them but sadly they appear to be the only ones who cannot see it.

[Xrey24]

Cheapest way

Hire a speedboat and get buried at sea! 2K

[Braddockrd]

I have not read all of the posts in this trove of knowledge, but the answer is clear and easy: as long as you don't have any particular expectations, do nothing. You don't even have to worry about your hospital bills. Tough but that is what it is. No one can come after your wife in AU for hospital or incineration bills. They may sue her in Thailand but they have no standing in AU courts and comity will not extend to this kind of situation. Enjoy your last days as much as you can my friend.

[NancyL]

For those of you making flip remarks suggesting that it's an OK plan to advise your relatives to refuse to pay your final hospital bill, I can assure you that the hospitals will apply a great deal of pressure to your Embassy to have the final bill paid and their staff will spend time contacting your relatives and friends, putting pressure on them to make final arrangements for you.

That being said there are unclaimed bodies of foreigners kept for quite some time in the morgues here. Eventually some charity steps in and arranges a pauper's cremation.

Is that what you really want to have happen? To be a burden to the Thai people and a Thai charity at the end of your days? Is the way you want to be remembered by the people seeing your mortal remains out of Thailand?

[Braddockrd]

I don't care he'll care much for what the Thai people, who reap the benefits of tourism, care. Especially when the real cost is so small

[Gerard052]

For those of you making flip remarks suggesting that it's an OK plan to advise your relatives to refuse to pay your final hospital bill, I can assure you that the hospitals will apply a great deal of pressure to your Embassy to have the final bill paid and their staff will spend time contacting your relatives and friends, putting pressure on them to make final arrangements for you.

That being said there are unclaimed bodies of foreigners kept for quite some time in the morgues here. Eventually some charity steps in and arranges a pauper's cremation.

Is that what you really want to have happen? To be a burden to the Thai people and a Thai charity at the end of your days? Is the way you want to be remembered by the people seeing your mortal remains out of Thailand?

I have taken an insurance about 5 years ago and they will repat my body from anywhere in the world. I thought that some of my family members had to do the dirty work but they have specialists that take care of it.

[Kasset Tak]

I'm 38, single and have reasonable good health. My funeral is already prepared for with the local temple, I have made a 20,000 Baht donation to cover all the funeral costs. If I would leave this village, maybe go back home then ok but as long as I stay here it's all payed if an accident would happen. Maybe it's a bit morbid to plan for your death but I don't want to be a burden for anyone when I die!

[muffy]

I was at the US embassy once when they were handling the death of a citizen . They were running around in circles not knowing much about the deceased that died alone in a hotel room . I said wouldn't it be simple if you had a what to do and whom to contact when one registers with the embassy ? This was 10 years ago and they still don't have anything . Typical of the US government .

[gandalf12]

Assuming you have no real preferences but just want a respectful funeral then a temple in Thailand will perform a Thai cremation. This can take place over several days the minimum being 3 and the maximum being 7. Obviously the cost will vary depending on the time over which the procedure lasts.

After the initial ceremony there is a second one after 100 days during which the remains are normally taken to the sea and spread over the waters.

I would suggest you inquire in Australia at a Thai temple (yes they do have some) in regards to this. They will help you.

Having said all that I trust you will have a happy stay in Thailand and return to Australia to live for many more years

[Time Traveller]

For those of you making flip remarks suggesting that it's an OK plan to advise your relatives to refuse to pay your final hospital bill, I can assure you that the hospitals will apply a great deal of pressure to your Embassy to have the final bill paid and their staff will spend time contacting your relatives and friends, putting pressure on them to make final arrangements for you.

That being said there are unclaimed bodies of foreigners kept for quite some time in the morgues here. Eventually some charity steps in and arranges a pauper's cremation.

Is that what you really want to have happen? To be a burden to the Thai people and a Thai charity at the end of your days? Is the way you want to be remembered by the people seeing your mortal remains out of Thailand?

I agree it's irresponsible but at the end of the day the thai hospitals can only ask for payment. They have no legal leg to stand on so to speak if the other partner does not wish to pay.

Nice sales pitch there but you are incorrect, no embassy is going to do that. It is illegal in many western countries for anyone to inform other people of your debts let alone seek to collect from them. Lawsuits can be filed against creditors or 3rd parties disclosing that information to anyone other than spouses or their personal attorney

Edited December 21, 2014 by Time Traveller

[Sheryl]

1. Hospital will not release your body until bills have been paid. So that is problem #1. You can reduce the size of the bill by going only to government hospitals. Private ones can be very, very expensive. But don't underestimate how high a bill can be racked up in a govt hospital especially for prolonged ICU stays and the like. I will address that whole set of problems (life support and so forth) at the end of this.

2. Hospitals are not allowed to release body of a foreigner without notification of, and consent from, the relevant Embassy. The Embassy in turn will not approve release of the body until it has established who the next of kin are and received instructions from them. Now this, you can facilitate greatly by making sure you are registered with your Embassy with contact details for your wife. (Should you die outside a hospital, police must be called and you'll be brought to one until Embassy is notified, so essentially same story).

3. Once the hospital has notified your Embassy and Embassy has notified your wife, the Embassy will authorize release of your body to her or to anyone else she designates. There is no requirement that your remains be repatriated. They can be cremated or buried in Thailand, as long as that is what the next of kin instructs. Cremation will be by far the less expensive.

4. An excellent resource is the following organization (I believe actually based in Oz, but with a Thailand branch): http://www.funeralrepatriation.com/whattodo

They specialize in making arrangements for foreigners who die in Thailand, know all the relevant regulations and will arrange everything at reasonable price. No problem to skip funeral services and the like, if told that all that is wanted is a straight cremation or burial. I'm sure you can also contact them now ahead of time and discuss prices, and they might even have an arrangement by which you can pre-pay - that I have never explored but easy enough to ask them; Khun Pim there is very helpful and being that this is her profession will not find the question odd.I have dealt with them in situations where a foreigner died and family was unable to come to Thailand and also had little money, and it went very smoothly. Not only will they take care of disposing of your remains but they will also help obtain the needed Embassy documents for your wife to serve as death certificate for legal purposes back in Oz -- she will need that in order to settle the estate, collect any entitlements etc.

Be sure of course to explain all this to your wife and make sure she has the contact info as well as understands what you want.

Now to the other big problem, aside from paying whatever hospital bill has accrued (but not unrelated to it): avoiding a prolonged death with life support etc. NancyL already mentioned this. Thailand only very recently introduced the concept of living wills and most doctors are still quite unfamiliar with them. Most hospitals require that you fill out a hospital specific form, if they have any provision for this at all, which is a real problem especially for someone travelling around a lot since who knows where you'll be, what hospital you'd be taken to etc. Doctors will definitely be inclined to prolong your death through artificial means unless they are clearly told by a relative not to and also have assurrance they will not be held liable (and even then they may be stubborn on this point...it can be hard to get them to pull the plug here). Best advise I can give, given that you are travelling around, is to consult a lawyer here and make out a Living Will with copies kept both in your wallet, with your wife and with any other resource people you may have. Your wife will then have to show the document to the doctors and be prepared to argue the point, and be warned it may not be easy though she will prevail if she stands firm. As it sounds like she will likely be back in OZ, you need to think who else would be here and able to act as your advocate to avoid your wife having to travel here for that purpose...though it may prove inavoidable. Don't expect your Embassy to be of any help on this score, they won't be. When you see a lawyer to draw up a Living Will, should also consider drawing up a Power of Attorney for someone in country that takes effect if you are incapacitated and authorizes them to make medical decisions on your behalf. But be warned that even with that, unless it is someone who can pass him/herself off as a blood relations, the doctor may be unwilling. They usually want to hear it face to face from a relative.

In short, disposal of your body per se is not hard, with a little preparation (registering with the Embassy, making sure your wife knows who to contact). Your big problems are paying for the medical care that may precede your death and avoiding having your death artificially prolonged, at both financial expense and increased suffering. This last will be especially hard ti manage without a relative with you. I suggest having a long talk with your wife on this. She might need to be prepared to come to Thailand and take a stand with the hospital.

[kbelyeu]

I have direct experience. A mate of mine passed a couple years ago with a Thai will made out which specified that he was to be cremated and hand carried back to Hawaii. We carried his urn around to a few bars with drinks per his wishes then a mate hopped a plane back to the states with the death certificate in hand and the urn under his arm with no drama. The urn was handed to the family and that was that.

The funny part was when he put the guys urn through the x-ray machine in swampy they wanted him to open it but he flatly refused.. and no way in hell was a Thai going to open that urn..

Kurt

[Time Traveller]

I was at the US embassy once when they were handling the death of a citizen . They were running around in circles not knowing much about the deceased that died alone in a hotel room . I said wouldn't it be simple if you had a what to do and whom to contact when one registers with the embassy ? This was 10 years ago and they still don't have anything . Typical of the US government .

why is this funny to you?

[Timebandit]

Please do not put a U.S. dollar symbol ($) in front of a Thai baht amount followed by the word baht. Ambiguous. You know who you are. I know that is just a "fat finger" or a slip of the brain. Life is short--brandy with dessert first. Best wishes to the King, whom I admire greatly.

[fey]

for a 100 grand i would tell her to come to thailand and have my body cremated at the local wat. then just fly back with the ashes and bury them where appropriate. who wants to fly in a cargo bay anyhow.

Remember that the ashes are a bit 'lumpy'. There will be bones in there as well because of the low cremation temperature.

take the bones out.and keep the ashes

[Liquorice]

@NancyL and Sheryl,

One of the local expats passed away only 3 weeks ago, but the experience was somewhat different to what you describe.

Having being taken to hospital after having a stroke, then subsequently a heart attack the following day, this expat was put on a life support.

His medicated was slowly reduced to see if his heart could take over again.

His Thai wife and family consulted doctors with a request that he not be resuscitated in the event of another heart attack, in the event his heart could not hold up on it's own.

Sure enough the next day he had another heart attack and the doctors did not attempt resuscitation as requested by his family.

There were no conflicts between the doctors wanting to preserve or extend his life and the wishes of the family.

[cookee68]

And what does your wife think about it, have you talked to her about what you want to do what about her feelings towards it, where will she go to moarn

[NancyL]

@NancyL and Sheryl,

One of the local expats passed away only 3 weeks ago, but the experience was somewhat different to what you describe.

Having being taken to hospital after having a stroke, then subsequently a heart attack the following day, this expat was put on a life support.

His medicated was slowly reduced to see if his heart could take over again.

His Thai wife and family consulted doctors with a request that he not be resuscitated in the event of another heart attack, in the event his heart could not hold up on it's own.

Sure enough the next day he had another heart attack and the doctors did not attempt resuscitation as requested by his family.

There were no conflicts between the doctors wanting to preserve or extend his life and the wishes of the family.

This is an ideal situation. Yes, Thai doctors will ask "what to do if there's another heart attack" and if the family is in complete agreement they will try to follow the plan. The problem that Sheryl and I have seen is when someone is brought into the ER with their first heart attack and no one knows what the family wishes are. If they don't know that the family is in complete agreement, they will always go with using everything they have in their tool-kit to keep the patient alive.

Excellent post, Sheryl. Thank you!

Edited December 21, 2014 by NancyL

[khaowong1]

Happened to a friend in Pattaya several years ago. His liver finally gave out. He was put in the hospital there in Pattaya and had him on all kinds of equipment. His daughter had to fly in from the US and take him off life support. She paid the hospital bills and had him cremated at a local temple then spilled his ashes/bones in Pattaya Bay. I'm not sure how long they would have kept him on life support. I'm not sure also how much it cost for the hospital. The thing is, you need a plan. It took her a long time, several months, to sort out his insurance, banking, etc. and etc. . He didn't have any thing written down which caused so much more problems. Plan, Plan, Plan. Get everything in writing and documented.

[Torrens54]

Giving verbal instructions that you don't want to be resuscitated or ventilated is a good start, but it's better to have your wishes explicitly in writing. Thai people have a tremendous respect for authority and life and doctors will do everything possible to prolong life, in my experience. If someone is brought into a hospital in need of lifesaving measures, they will start them first without asking if if there is a Living Will "on file". It's up to whomever comes in with that person to make the person's wishes know and a written document is the best way to do that.

Also, it's good to have your wishes for a funeral stated in writing. Thai widows are often pushed into having expensive ceremonies to "save face" to show they loved you. They know you wouldn't have wanted the money to be spent that way, yet they have to show their community how much they loved you. Put your funeral wishes in writing, too and that gives them something to show how they're fulfilling your wishes.

And in Thailand, the sacred remains from a cremation are bones, not ashes. They don't understand our desire to save the remains from the wooden coffin!

Presumably these instructions should be in both Thai and English. Should they carry some "official" stamp and do you have a link where people can download a sample of the form/s?

Thanks!

[NancyL]

Actually, English language forms work just fine, but Thai language would be better if everyone involved is Thai. Talk with the hospital. Some have their own forms for a Living Will. There are forms on the internet.

There's a document on www.LannaCareNet.org that has been accepted in Chiang Mai http://www.lannacarenet.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/LCNAdvanced-Directive-Feb2014Rev21.pdf But, it's also be refused (and the Health Care Representative denied entry into the hospital) when the Thai wife decided to overrule the wishes of her husband. It's not a legal document that can be "enforced" in a court of law here. It's merely an expression of wishes and we've found the doctors more than willing to accept if everyone in the family is on-board.

The key point is to talk with everyone in your family and your close friends if you don't have family to be sure those who are likely to go with you to the hospital at your time of need understands your wishes and knows about this document.

[Pattaya Lous]

Bottom line - 10,000 to be burnt here.

£12,000 to be shipped home to England and then the funeral expenses.

If you are over 85 years old stay in your home country you will be better off.

[ATF]

If you want to make a will just go to a reputable lawyer it usually costs about 10k Baht and you can usually change it as many times as you like within reason.

The lawyer will prepare the will in both Thai and English.

Understand a Thai will is not a legal document outside of Thailand.

[fey]

Giving verbal instructions that you don't want to be resuscitated or ventilated is a good start, but it's better to have your wishes explicitly in writing. Thai people have a tremendous respect for authority and life and doctors will do everything possible to prolong life, in my experience. If someone is brought into a hospital in need of lifesaving measures, they will start them first without asking if if there is a Living Will "on file". It's up to whomever comes in with that person to make the person's wishes know and a written document is the best way to do that.

Also, it's good to have your wishes for a funeral stated in writing. Thai widows are often pushed into having expensive ceremonies to "save face" to show they loved you. They know you wouldn't have wanted the money to be spent that way, yet they have to show their community how much they loved you. Put your funeral wishes in writing, too and that gives them something to show how they're fulfilling your wishes.

And in Thailand, the sacred remains from a cremation are bones, not ashes. They don't understand our desire to save the remains from the wooden coffin!

Presumably these instructions should be in both Thai and English. Should they carry some "official" stamp and do you have a link where people can download a sample of the form/s?

Thanks!

take the ashes out and keep the bones

[Boon Mee]

1. Hospital will not release your body until bills have been paid. So that is problem #1. You can reduce the size of the bill by going only to government hospitals. Private ones can be very, very expensive. But don't underestimate how high a bill can be racked up in a govt hospital especially for prolonged ICU stays and the like.

Operative statement of this thread, Sheryl.

It's simply folly to die expensive at hospitals like Bumrungrad etc.

.

[billd766]

I have been planning what to do to help my family when I die and came up with Bills book of death.

It is a terrible title but basically I have a folder in excel on my computer explaining to my wife (in English only so far) what to do when I die.

Where my passport is.

Where the bank cards are.

Who my pension providers are and how to contact them.

Who I think needs to be emailed or phoned about my death with addresses and phone numbers.

What to do and who to contact if I die at home.

What to do with my passport.

The need for a UK death certificate for the pension providers.

That the police need to contact the UK embassy but she needs to do it too.

A change of clothes that button up rather than slide over a stiff body.

A whole load of other insignificant details that my wife may not think about.

I got this idea from a guy called Bagwan and a thread on Thai Visa called

www.thaivisa.com/forum/...dying-at-home-in-chiang-mai/page-2

Dying at home in Chiang Mai

Posted 2009-05-22 16:56

Having done all that on the computer I printed it out along with my Will in English and Thai p[lus my signed living will in English and Thai saying that I do NOT want to be resusicated nor do I want my wife to spend money on keeping me alive when she and our son will need it in the future.

I have told her that when I am gone to have a great goodbye party with friends and drink up all the special booze we have collected over the years and to remember me. I want my ashes not to go into the river or the klong or the land but to the spirit house out the front.

I have also told my wife and son that I will be watching over them for the rest of their lives and not to worry if they see me as a spirit.

If anybody wants a copy of my instructions on what to do then please PM me.

[Liquorice]

NancyL, on 21 Dec 2014 - 21:17, said:

Faz, on 21 Dec 2014 - 19:48, said:

@NancyL and Sheryl,

One of the local expats passed away only 3 weeks ago, but the experience was somewhat different to what you describe.

Having being taken to hospital after having a stroke, then subsequently a heart attack the following day, this expat was put on a life support.

His medicated was slowly reduced to see if his heart could take over again.

His Thai wife and family consulted doctors with a request that he not be resuscitated in the event of another heart attack, in the event his heart could not hold up on it's own.

Sure enough the next day he had another heart attack and the doctors did not attempt resuscitation as requested by his family.

There were no conflicts between the doctors wanting to preserve or extend his life and the wishes of the family.

This is an ideal situation. Yes, Thai doctors will ask "what to do if there's another heart attack" and if the family is in complete agreement they will try to follow the plan. The problem that Sheryl and I have seen is when someone is brought into the ER with their first heart attack and no one knows what the family wishes are. If they don't know that the family is in complete agreement, they will always go with using everything they have in their tool-kit to keep the patient alive.

Excellent post, Sheryl. Thank you!

Thanks for your clarification Nancy.