When A Farang Dies In Thailand. What Is The Procedure For Burial

[gmac]

It's the people left behind that want a respectful goodbye. That's the reason for ceremonies.

Really? To me it just seems like tradition. It's always been done this way so that's what we do. I can't think of a single person I know who actually wants to go to a funeral. They just feel they should.

[jcisco]

[q uote name=thaibeachlovers" post="8831085" timestamp="1419128673]

I know something about this, being the co-ordinator of www.LannaCareNet.org

If it involves paying a lawyer, no. Don't the doctors listen to someone's wife? Perhaps I could have it tattooed on my chest.

I like this guy practical and fearless

[Loaded]

Embassies have been mentioned as an important part of the process. My experience was that we coordinated everything ourselves. The police said they would contact the consulate in Chiang Mai and also said we should contact them as well. I went there and they confirmed we had done everything that needed to be done. They took the deceased's passport and cut the corner off. I guess they recorded the death as well. They handed back the passport. It took 10 minutes and cost nothing.

The deceased had a significant amount of money in a Thai bank account for his retirement visa. We contacted a member of staff, who we know, from the deceased's bank. She said, if you tell the bank the account owner is dead, they will lock the account. It will then require a court to release the money. This will take a long time and cost a lot of money. The bank officer 'unofficially' advised us to just withdraw (we had the card and pin) 30K THB per day ourselves until the account was empty. She spoke as though this is normal practice when Thais die.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Loaded

[NancyL]

Embassies have been mentioned as an important part of the process. My experience was that we coordinated everything ourselves. The police said they would contact the consulate in Chiang Mai and also said we should contact them as well. I went there and they confirmed we had done everything that needed to be done. They took the deceased's passport and cut the corner off. I guess they recorded the death as well. They handed back the passport. It took 10 minutes and cost nothing.

The deceased had a significant amount of money in a Thai bank account for his retirement visa. We contacted a member of staff, who we know, from the deceased's bank. She said, if you tell the bank the account owner is dead, they will lock the account. It will then require a court to release the money. This will take a long time and cost a lot of money. The bank officer 'unofficially' advised us to just withdraw (we had the card and pin) 30K THB per day ourselves until the account was empty. She spoke as though this is normal practice when Thais die.

Wow, this is unusual advice from the bank staff. The bank officer must have been very confident that no relative was going to come forward and make a claim to the money -- no spouse or child. Nor that the person owed money to a government agency for back taxes or unpaid hospital bills. Especially since it was a significant amount of money for a retirement visa. The bank's home office could have questioned why there was account activity after the account holder had died.

I suspect this wasn't Bangkok Bank, because they are the only bank in Thailand authorized to receive U.S. gov't funds for SS, VA payments and they have a special responsibility to be sure those funds aren't being paid out improperly. Thus, they're very careful in how they handle accounts of deceased foreigners.

All-in-all, very unusual advice.

[natway09]

There is some good advice here & some bad.

To be buried here is very difficult & expensive so the above comments on cremation are valid.

The services are very respectable & (if you wish your ashes can be taken back to place of your choice for scattering,

after getting the correct documentation (standard international form for cremated remains)

The remains are not lumpy as all go through a crusher & are like medium gravel.

If have a pacemaker or artificial joint they should be told as can ruin the crusher blades.

Just ensure have a live will in place & a medical benefits insurabce plan if possible

Come on over & enjoy mate

[Loaded]

Embassies have been mentioned as an important part of the process. My experience was that we coordinated everything ourselves. The police said they would contact the consulate in Chiang Mai and also said we should contact them as well. I went there and they confirmed we had done everything that needed to be done. They took the deceased's passport and cut the corner off. I guess they recorded the death as well. They handed back the passport. It took 10 minutes and cost nothing.

The deceased had a significant amount of money in a Thai bank account for his retirement visa. We contacted a member of staff, who we know, from the deceased's bank. She said, if you tell the bank the account owner is dead, they will lock the account. It will then require a court to release the money. This will take a long time and cost a lot of money. The bank officer 'unofficially' advised us to just withdraw (we had the card and pin) 30K THB per day ourselves until the account was empty. She spoke as though this is normal practice when Thais die.

Wow, this is unusual advice from the bank staff. The bank officer must have been very confident that no relative was going to come forward and make a claim to the money -- no spouse or child. Nor that the person owed money to a government agency for back taxes or unpaid hospital bills. Especially since it was a significant amount of money for a retirement visa. The bank's home office could have questioned why there was account activity after the account holder had died.

I suspect this wasn't Bangkok Bank, because they are the only bank in Thailand authorized to receive U.S. gov't funds for SS, VA payments and they have a special responsibility to be sure those funds aren't being paid out improperly. Thus, they're very careful in how they handle accounts of deceased foreigners.

All-in-all, very unusual advice.

The advice was given to the next of kin. The advice - as stated earlier - was unofficial.

The bank has never been informed that the account owner is dead. Now, it's just another farang account that will lie dormant with a few baht in it until one day the bank closes it.

Not the Bangkok Bank.

I think the next of kin is more entitled to the money than the bank, the courts and solicitors.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Loaded

[NancyL]

Oh, I agree the NOK is definitely entitled to the funds. It's just I'm surprised that this advice was given for a large account. A small account, yes, but a large one -- surprising. But, I've not dealt with every bank in Thailand. And yes, with a small account, the bank is allowed to start charging "account maintenance fees" that will eventually eat away at an unclaimed account, but not with a large unclaimed account.

[billd766]

Embassies have been mentioned as an important part of the process. My experience was that we coordinated everything ourselves. The police said they would contact the consulate in Chiang Mai and also said we should contact them as well. I went there and they confirmed we had done everything that needed to be done. They took the deceased's passport and cut the corner off. I guess they recorded the death as well. They handed back the passport. It took 10 minutes and cost nothing.

The deceased had a significant amount of money in a Thai bank account for his retirement visa. We contacted a member of staff, who we know, from the deceased's bank. She said, if you tell the bank the account owner is dead, they will lock the account. It will then require a court to release the money. This will take a long time and cost a lot of money. The bank officer 'unofficially' advised us to just withdraw (we had the card and pin) 30K THB per day ourselves until the account was empty. She spoke as though this is normal practice when Thais die.

Wow, this is unusual advice from the bank staff. The bank officer must have been very confident that no relative was going to come forward and make a claim to the money -- no spouse or child. Nor that the person owed money to a government agency for back taxes or unpaid hospital bills. Especially since it was a significant amount of money for a retirement visa. The bank's home office could have questioned why there was account activity after the account holder had died.

I suspect this wasn't Bangkok Bank, because they are the only bank in Thailand authorized to receive U.S. gov't funds for SS, VA payments and they have a special responsibility to be sure those funds aren't being paid out improperly. Thus, they're very careful in how they handle accounts of deceased foreigners.

All-in-all, very unusual advice.

Nancy

It will be very difficult for the survivor to draw money from the account if the bank close it especially in my case where there are 3 pensions going into the account (KBank and NOT Bangkok Bank). It is something to query with the bank manager NOW, how the money can be paid to the survivor of a joint account. Sometimes wives die first, perhaps in an accident.

[NancyL]

Yes, talk with the bank manager now about their policy with joint accounts when one account holder dies.

Hubby and I didn't like what we heard at Bangkok Bank -- basically we couldn't get a 100% assurance that the survivor would be able to immediately draw upon the entire amount of the account, so we maintain other accounts just in our individual names. These sole accounts aren't ATM accounts -- they're the higher yielding orange passbook accounts, but we can get immediate access to them, it's just that we give up some of the interest.

Edited December 22, 2014 by NancyL

[fvw53]

I was at the US embassy once when they were handling the death of a citizen . They were running around in circles not knowing much about the deceased that died alone in a hotel room . I said wouldn't it be simple if you had a what to do and whom to contact when one registers with the embassy ? This was 10 years ago and they still don't have anything . Typical of the US government .

why is this funny to you?

The first formalities to register the death of a foreigner have to be done by local authorities and not by their Embassies.

I do not see why they would be running in circles...once they obtain death certificate issued by Thai authorities every Embassy will know exactly what to do.

[fey]

I have been planning what to do to help my family when I die and came up with Bills book of death.

It is a terrible title but basically I have a folder in excel on my computer explaining to my wife (in English only so far) what to do when I die.

Where my passport is.

Where the bank cards are.

Who my pension providers are and how to contact them.

Who I think needs to be emailed or phoned about my death with addresses and phone numbers.

What to do and who to contact if I die at home.

What to do with my passport.

The need for a UK death certificate for the pension providers.

That the police need to contact the UK embassy but she needs to do it too.

A change of clothes that button up rather than slide over a stiff body.

A whole load of other insignificant details that my wife may not think about.

I got this idea from a guy called Bagwan and a thread on Thai Visa called

www.thaivisa.com/forum/...dying-at-home-in-chiang-mai/page-2

Dying at home in Chiang Mai

Posted 2009-05-22 16:56

Having done all that on the computer I printed it out along with my Will in English and Thai p[lus my signed living will in English and Thai saying that I do NOT want to be resusicated nor do I want my wife to spend money on keeping me alive when she and our son will need it in the future.

I have told her that when I am gone to have a great goodbye party with friends and drink up all the special booze we have collected over the years and to remember me. I want my ashes not to go into the river or the klong or the land but to the spirit house out the front.

I have also told my wife and son that I will get off

If anybody wants a copy of my instructions on what to do then please

the ultimate control freak step

Edited December 22, 2014 by fey

[sloperating]

I know something about this, being the co-ordinator of www.LannaCareNet.org

The hospital will not release your remains until the bills are paid, so yes, your wife is going to be responsible for your final medical bills. More importantly, you should consider having a Advance Direct or Living Will in place to make sure your final wishes are followed, or you may find yourself being kept alive for a very long time in a hospital, especially if it appears that it's likely someone will foot the bill. Remember, this is a Buddhist country with a tremendous respect for life and there is much medical technology available to keep people alive long past when most westerners would consider it a good idea.

As for the handling of your remains after you die, the hospital will notify your Embassy and they will contact your wife. She will probably be encouraged to have your remains cremated here with the remains shipped to her. This can be arranged by the hospital for less than 20K. It sounds like the OPs wife remains in Australia while he comes here. The Embassy will keep in touch with the OPs wife and see that she receives the appropriate documents to be able to file insurance claims, close bank accounts, etc.

While it's good that the OP is worried about what should happen if he dies while in Thailand, given his advanced age, he should be more worried about what will happen if he becomes ill here in Thailand. Very few people just die suddenly. Usually, they're hospitalized first and often are unable to communicate their wishes, access funds, etc. He should plan ahead for this scenario.

The OP probably know about this, but be sure to register your travel plans on with the Aussie gov't website so the Embassy has contact details for your wife:

https://www.orao.dfat.gov.au/orao/weborao.nsf/Homeform?Openform

Just a thought...

If your hospital bills are not paid, what will the hospital do with your body?

Surely they will not store it indeffinately!

Unless you have some superstitous ( religious ) consern about what happens to your used up body...

Let the hospital keep it!

Not sure that would work. It's possible the bill would eventually be paid by the Australian Embassy and a debt raised against the wife. That could mean that the debt would have to be paid before they would do business with her again e.g. issue her with a passport. (When she pays for the passport the money gets allocated according to their priorities; in this case, the outstanding debt.)

I am sure the Embassy has encountered this before and would be happy to advise.

[Time Traveller]

Not sure that would work. It's possible the bill would eventually be paid by the Australian Embassy and a debt raised against the wife. That could mean that the debt would have to be paid before they would do business with her again e.g. issue her with a passport. (When she pays for the passport the money gets allocated according to their priorities; in this case, the outstanding debt.)

I am sure the Embassy has encountered this before and would be happy to advise.

No embassy is going to pay a hospital bill.

[Liquorice]

NancyL, on 22 Dec 2014 - 12:40, said:

Yes, talk with the bank manager now about their policy with joint accounts when one account holder dies.

Hubby and I didn't like what we heard at Bangkok Bank -- basically we couldn't get a 100% assurance that the survivor would be able to immediately draw upon the entire amount of the account, so we maintain other accounts just in our individual names. These sole accounts aren't ATM accounts -- they're the higher yielding orange passbook accounts, but we can get immediate access to them, it's just that we give up some of the interest.

The problem Nancy is that Immigration won't accept proof of funds in a joint bank account, so those like me on a retirement extension have to keep my 800,000 baht in my sole name.

Would the banks follow the instructions of a Will and release funds to a wife or girlfriend, or would it still have to go to a Court.

[Loaded]

NancyL, on 22 Dec 2014 - 12:40, said:

Yes, talk with the bank manager now about their policy with joint accounts when one account holder dies.

Hubby and I didn't like what we heard at Bangkok Bank -- basically we couldn't get a 100% assurance that the survivor would be able to immediately draw upon the entire amount of the account, so we maintain other accounts just in our individual names. These sole accounts aren't ATM accounts -- they're the higher yielding orange passbook accounts, but we can get immediate access to them, it's just that we give up some of the interest.

The problem Nancy is that Immigration won't accept proof of funds in a joint bank account, so those like me on a retirement extension have to keep my 800,000 baht in my sole name.

Would the banks follow the instructions of a Will and release funds to a wife or girlfriend, or would it still have to go to a Court.

"In order to obtain a probate in Thailand, probate proceedings at the Thai courts will need to be initiated by the heirs. A probate will in most cases be required to administer the estate orderly, even if the deceased has provided for a last will."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/618983-the-importance-of-preparing-a-will-in-thailand/

[NancyL]

Agreed, Immigration won't accept a joint account. The question was about releasing joint accounts to the survivor. Hubby and I have a joint account for "household" expenses. We also have individual accounts. In my case, it's for the retirement visa. His is just for a reserve in case I kick the bucket and he has to have quick access to funds to get me torched.

To answer the question about whether a bank will release funds to the beneficiary without probate, it depends on the bank and the beneficiary. Maybe.

[Broeno]

after you have cooled down of course.

Do tou really need to respond like that.

Have some respect for a serious matter please.

[maidee]

in america, people might carry a bracelet with

DO NOT RESUSCITATE

maybe have that in THAI ?

not trolling ... maybe have it tatooted on your chest in thai ?

so the Thai hospital knows that they will not make much money out of you and save your wife your life savings ?

Edited December 23, 2014 by maidee

[NancyL]

in america, people might carry a bracelet with

DO NOT RESUSCITATE

maybe have that in THAI ?

not trolling ... maybe have it tatooted on your chest in thai ?

so the Thai hospital knows that they will not make much money out of you and save your wife your life savings ?

I really doubt that the hospitals in Thailand would honor something like this. They'd want to know the wishes of your family.

A Living Will or Advance Directive is not as simple as a statement that just says "Do Not Resuscitate" There are situations where it makes perfect sense to resuscitate, when it's obvious that the condition is 100% reversible. In a Living Will or Advance Directive, you spell out the conditions under which you do not want your life prolonged by artificial means.

[billd766]

I have been planning what to do to help my family when I die and came up with Bills book of death.

It is a terrible title but basically I have a folder in excel on my computer explaining to my wife (in English only so far) what to do when I die.

Where my passport is.

Where the bank cards are.

Who my pension providers are and how to contact them.

Who I think needs to be emailed or phoned about my death with addresses and phone numbers.

What to do and who to contact if I die at home.

What to do with my passport.

The need for a UK death certificate for the pension providers.

That the police need to contact the UK embassy but she needs to do it too.

A change of clothes that button up rather than slide over a stiff body.

A whole load of other insignificant details that my wife may not think about.

I got this idea from a guy called Bagwan and a thread on Thai Visa called

www.thaivisa.com/forum/...dying-at-home-in-chiang-mai/page-2

Dying at home in Chiang Mai

Posted 2009-05-22 16:56

Having done all that on the computer I printed it out along with my Will in English and Thai p[lus my signed living will in English and Thai saying that I do NOT want to be resusicated nor do I want my wife to spend money on keeping me alive when she and our son will need it in the future.

I have told her that when I am gone to have a great goodbye party with friends and drink up all the special booze we have collected over the years and to remember me. I want my ashes not to go into the river or the klong or the land but to the spirit house out the front.

I have also told my wife and son that I will get off

If anybody wants a copy of my instructions on what to do then please

the ultimate control freak step

So, Fey what do YOU think I should do then?

Say to my wife and son that when I die you can sort everything out by yourselves as I don't care what happens when I am dead.

The majority of people want to make life easy for the survivors when they die and usually a will tells them what should go where.

I have pensions from 3 different providers that my wife is entitled to a portion of and they are all UK based so somebody will have to talk to them in English. Somebody will have to register my death at the UK Embassy.

There are so many details to be sorted out when somebody dies that without any ideas or guidance it can take months to deal with.

If you cal that being the ultimate control freak then that is only YOUR opinion and means absolutely nothing to me.

Have a good life as like me and everybody else in the world your turn will come to die. At least my family will be prepared and know what to do.

[billd766]

NancyL, on 22 Dec 2014 - 12:40, said:

Yes, talk with the bank manager now about their policy with joint accounts when one account holder dies.

Hubby and I didn't like what we heard at Bangkok Bank -- basically we couldn't get a 100% assurance that the survivor would be able to immediately draw upon the entire amount of the account, so we maintain other accounts just in our individual names. These sole accounts aren't ATM accounts -- they're the higher yielding orange passbook accounts, but we can get immediate access to them, it's just that we give up some of the interest.

The problem Nancy is that Immigration won't accept proof of funds in a joint bank account, so those like me on a retirement extension have to keep my 800,000 baht in my sole name.

Would the banks follow the instructions of a Will and release funds to a wife or girlfriend, or would it still have to go to a Court.

I do my banking online and I can transfer money between accounts easily.

If the 800,000 baht was in my account my wife can easily transfer it on line to the joint account or her account as it will legally belong to her anyway.

[thaibeachlovers]

1. Hospital will not release your body until bills have been paid. So that is problem #1. You can reduce the size of the bill by going only to government hospitals. Private ones can be very, very expensive. But don't underestimate how high a bill can be racked up in a govt hospital especially for prolonged ICU stays and the like. I will address that whole set of problems (life support and so forth) at the end of this.

2. Hospitals are not allowed to release body of a foreigner without notification of, and consent from, the relevant Embassy. The Embassy in turn will not approve release of the body until it has established who the next of kin are and received instructions from them. Now this, you can facilitate greatly by making sure you are registered with your Embassy with contact details for your wife. (Should you die outside a hospital, police must be called and you'll be brought to one until Embassy is notified, so essentially same story).

3. Once the hospital has notified your Embassy and Embassy has notified your wife, the Embassy will authorize release of your body to her or to anyone else she designates. There is no requirement that your remains be repatriated. They can be cremated or buried in Thailand, as long as that is what the next of kin instructs. Cremation will be by far the less expensive.

4. An excellent resource is the following organization (I believe actually based in Oz, but with a Thailand branch): http://www.funeralrepatriation.com/whattodo

They specialize in making arrangements for foreigners who die in Thailand, know all the relevant regulations and will arrange everything at reasonable price. No problem to skip funeral services and the like, if told that all that is wanted is a straight cremation or burial. I'm sure you can also contact them now ahead of time and discuss prices, and they might even have an arrangement by which you can pre-pay - that I have never explored but easy enough to ask them; Khun Pim there is very helpful and being that this is her profession will not find the question odd.I have dealt with them in situations where a foreigner died and family was unable to come to Thailand and also had little money, and it went very smoothly. Not only will they take care of disposing of your remains but they will also help obtain the needed Embassy documents for your wife to serve as death certificate for legal purposes back in Oz -- she will need that in order to settle the estate, collect any entitlements etc.

Be sure of course to explain all this to your wife and make sure she has the contact info as well as understands what you want.

Now to the other big problem, aside from paying whatever hospital bill has accrued (but not unrelated to it): avoiding a prolonged death with life support etc. NancyL already mentioned this. Thailand only very recently introduced the concept of living wills and most doctors are still quite unfamiliar with them. Most hospitals require that you fill out a hospital specific form, if they have any provision for this at all, which is a real problem especially for someone travelling around a lot since who knows where you'll be, what hospital you'd be taken to etc. Doctors will definitely be inclined to prolong your death through artificial means unless they are clearly told by a relative not to and also have assurrance they will not be held liable (and even then they may be stubborn on this point...it can be hard to get them to pull the plug here). Best advise I can give, given that you are travelling around, is to consult a lawyer here and make out a Living Will with copies kept both in your wallet, with your wife and with any other resource people you may have. Your wife will then have to show the document to the doctors and be prepared to argue the point, and be warned it may not be easy though she will prevail if she stands firm. As it sounds like she will likely be back in OZ, you need to think who else would be here and able to act as your advocate to avoid your wife having to travel here for that purpose...though it may prove inavoidable. Don't expect your Embassy to be of any help on this score, they won't be. When you see a lawyer to draw up a Living Will, should also consider drawing up a Power of Attorney for someone in country that takes effect if you are incapacitated and authorizes them to make medical decisions on your behalf. But be warned that even with that, unless it is someone who can pass him/herself off as a blood relations, the doctor may be unwilling. They usually want to hear it face to face from a relative.

In short, disposal of your body per se is not hard, with a little preparation (registering with the Embassy, making sure your wife knows who to contact). Your big problems are paying for the medical care that may precede your death and avoiding having your death artificially prolonged, at both financial expense and increased suffering. This last will be especially hard ti manage without a relative with you. I suggest having a long talk with your wife on this. She might need to be prepared to come to Thailand and take a stand with the hospital.

Far as I'm concerned, if the Drs want to prolong my life they can pay the bill.

The gifting my body to medical research/ whatever sounds good.

Anyway, I don't want to be "prolonged" at all, and I will be telling my wife to refuse to pay any bills after they have been told not to "prolong" me.

[thaibeachlovers]

in america, people might carry a bracelet with

DO NOT RESUSCITATE

maybe have that in THAI ?

not trolling ... maybe have it tatooted on your chest in thai ?

so the Thai hospital knows that they will not make much money out of you and save your wife your life savings ?

I really doubt that the hospitals in Thailand would honor something like this. They'd want to know the wishes of your family.

A Living Will or Advance Directive is not as simple as a statement that just says "Do Not Resuscitate" There are situations where it makes perfect sense to resuscitate, when it's obvious that the condition is 100% reversible. In a Living Will or Advance Directive, you spell out the conditions under which you do not want your life prolonged by artificial means.

when it's obvious that the condition is 100% reversible.

You are brave to make a definitive statement like that!!!!!!!! There is no such thing as 100% when it comes to health.

For myself, not willing to take the risk, as seen too many disabled people to want to be like that. After all, dead is dead.

[NancyL]

1. Hospital will not release your body until bills have been paid. So that is problem #1. You can reduce the size of the bill by going only to government hospitals. Private ones can be very, very expensive. But don't underestimate how high a bill can be racked up in a govt hospital especially for prolonged ICU stays and the like. I will address that whole set of problems (life support and so forth) at the end of this.

2. Hospitals are not allowed to release body of a foreigner without notification of, and consent from, the relevant Embassy. The Embassy in turn will not approve release of the body until it has established who the next of kin are and received instructions from them. Now this, you can facilitate greatly by making sure you are registered with your Embassy with contact details for your wife. (Should you die outside a hospital, police must be called and you'll be brought to one until Embassy is notified, so essentially same story).

3. Once the hospital has notified your Embassy and Embassy has notified your wife, the Embassy will authorize release of your body to her or to anyone else she designates. There is no requirement that your remains be repatriated. They can be cremated or buried in Thailand, as long as that is what the next of kin instructs. Cremation will be by far the less expensive.

4. An excellent resource is the following organization (I believe actually based in Oz, but with a Thailand branch): http://www.funeralrepatriation.com/whattodo

They specialize in making arrangements for foreigners who die in Thailand, know all the relevant regulations and will arrange everything at reasonable price. No problem to skip funeral services and the like, if told that all that is wanted is a straight cremation or burial. I'm sure you can also contact them now ahead of time and discuss prices, and they might even have an arrangement by which you can pre-pay - that I have never explored but easy enough to ask them; Khun Pim there is very helpful and being that this is her profession will not find the question odd.I have dealt with them in situations where a foreigner died and family was unable to come to Thailand and also had little money, and it went very smoothly. Not only will they take care of disposing of your remains but they will also help obtain the needed Embassy documents for your wife to serve as death certificate for legal purposes back in Oz -- she will need that in order to settle the estate, collect any entitlements etc.

Be sure of course to explain all this to your wife and make sure she has the contact info as well as understands what you want.

Now to the other big problem, aside from paying whatever hospital bill has accrued (but not unrelated to it): avoiding a prolonged death with life support etc. NancyL already mentioned this. Thailand only very recently introduced the concept of living wills and most doctors are still quite unfamiliar with them. Most hospitals require that you fill out a hospital specific form, if they have any provision for this at all, which is a real problem especially for someone travelling around a lot since who knows where you'll be, what hospital you'd be taken to etc. Doctors will definitely be inclined to prolong your death through artificial means unless they are clearly told by a relative not to and also have assurrance they will not be held liable (and even then they may be stubborn on this point...it can be hard to get them to pull the plug here). Best advise I can give, given that you are travelling around, is to consult a lawyer here and make out a Living Will with copies kept both in your wallet, with your wife and with any other resource people you may have. Your wife will then have to show the document to the doctors and be prepared to argue the point, and be warned it may not be easy though she will prevail if she stands firm. As it sounds like she will likely be back in OZ, you need to think who else would be here and able to act as your advocate to avoid your wife having to travel here for that purpose...though it may prove inavoidable. Don't expect your Embassy to be of any help on this score, they won't be. When you see a lawyer to draw up a Living Will, should also consider drawing up a Power of Attorney for someone in country that takes effect if you are incapacitated and authorizes them to make medical decisions on your behalf. But be warned that even with that, unless it is someone who can pass him/herself off as a blood relations, the doctor may be unwilling. They usually want to hear it face to face from a relative.

In short, disposal of your body per se is not hard, with a little preparation (registering with the Embassy, making sure your wife knows who to contact). Your big problems are paying for the medical care that may precede your death and avoiding having your death artificially prolonged, at both financial expense and increased suffering. This last will be especially hard ti manage without a relative with you. I suggest having a long talk with your wife on this. She might need to be prepared to come to Thailand and take a stand with the hospital.

Far as I'm concerned, if the Drs want to prolong my life they can pay the bill.

The gifting my body to medical research/ whatever sounds good.

Anyway, I don't want to be "prolonged" at all, and I will be telling my wife to refuse to pay any bills after they have been told not to "prolong" me.

It's just not that simple here. Your wife will be told what the laws in Thailand are concerning "pulling the plug" on someone on a ventilator. She will have to make some agonizing choices. You know she simply won't be able to walk away and say "he's your problem now" when you're still alive.

If you love her and don't want to see her suffer during your final days, please follow the advice to about getting a Living Will or Advance Directive put together while there's time. And put your funeral wishes in writing, too. Depending on how someone dies, bodies aren't always accepted for medical research purposes. There should be a back-up plan.

[thaibeachlovers]

1. Hospital will not release your body until bills have been paid. So that is problem #1. You can reduce the size of the bill by going only to government hospitals. Private ones can be very, very expensive. But don't underestimate how high a bill can be racked up in a govt hospital especially for prolonged ICU stays and the like. I will address that whole set of problems (life support and so forth) at the end of this.

2. Hospitals are not allowed to release body of a foreigner without notification of, and consent from, the relevant Embassy. The Embassy in turn will not approve release of the body until it has established who the next of kin are and received instructions from them. Now this, you can facilitate greatly by making sure you are registered with your Embassy with contact details for your wife. (Should you die outside a hospital, police must be called and you'll be brought to one until Embassy is notified, so essentially same story).

3. Once the hospital has notified your Embassy and Embassy has notified your wife, the Embassy will authorize release of your body to her or to anyone else she designates. There is no requirement that your remains be repatriated. They can be cremated or buried in Thailand, as long as that is what the next of kin instructs. Cremation will be by far the less expensive.

4. An excellent resource is the following organization (I believe actually based in Oz, but with a Thailand branch): http://www.funeralrepatriation.com/whattodo

They specialize in making arrangements for foreigners who die in Thailand, know all the relevant regulations and will arrange everything at reasonable price. No problem to skip funeral services and the like, if told that all that is wanted is a straight cremation or burial. I'm sure you can also contact them now ahead of time and discuss prices, and they might even have an arrangement by which you can pre-pay - that I have never explored but easy enough to ask them; Khun Pim there is very helpful and being that this is her profession will not find the question odd.I have dealt with them in situations where a foreigner died and family was unable to come to Thailand and also had little money, and it went very smoothly. Not only will they take care of disposing of your remains but they will also help obtain the needed Embassy documents for your wife to serve as death certificate for legal purposes back in Oz -- she will need that in order to settle the estate, collect any entitlements etc.

Be sure of course to explain all this to your wife and make sure she has the contact info as well as understands what you want.

Now to the other big problem, aside from paying whatever hospital bill has accrued (but not unrelated to it): avoiding a prolonged death with life support etc. NancyL already mentioned this. Thailand only very recently introduced the concept of living wills and most doctors are still quite unfamiliar with them. Most hospitals require that you fill out a hospital specific form, if they have any provision for this at all, which is a real problem especially for someone travelling around a lot since who knows where you'll be, what hospital you'd be taken to etc. Doctors will definitely be inclined to prolong your death through artificial means unless they are clearly told by a relative not to and also have assurrance they will not be held liable (and even then they may be stubborn on this point...it can be hard to get them to pull the plug here). Best advise I can give, given that you are travelling around, is to consult a lawyer here and make out a Living Will with copies kept both in your wallet, with your wife and with any other resource people you may have. Your wife will then have to show the document to the doctors and be prepared to argue the point, and be warned it may not be easy though she will prevail if she stands firm. As it sounds like she will likely be back in OZ, you need to think who else would be here and able to act as your advocate to avoid your wife having to travel here for that purpose...though it may prove inavoidable. Don't expect your Embassy to be of any help on this score, they won't be. When you see a lawyer to draw up a Living Will, should also consider drawing up a Power of Attorney for someone in country that takes effect if you are incapacitated and authorizes them to make medical decisions on your behalf. But be warned that even with that, unless it is someone who can pass him/herself off as a blood relations, the doctor may be unwilling. They usually want to hear it face to face from a relative.

In short, disposal of your body per se is not hard, with a little preparation (registering with the Embassy, making sure your wife knows who to contact). Your big problems are paying for the medical care that may precede your death and avoiding having your death artificially prolonged, at both financial expense and increased suffering. This last will be especially hard ti manage without a relative with you. I suggest having a long talk with your wife on this. She might need to be prepared to come to Thailand and take a stand with the hospital.

Far as I'm concerned, if the Drs want to prolong my life they can pay the bill.

The gifting my body to medical research/ whatever sounds good.

Anyway, I don't want to be "prolonged" at all, and I will be telling my wife to refuse to pay any bills after they have been told not to "prolong" me.

It's just not that simple here. Your wife will be told what the laws in Thailand are concerning "pulling the plug" on someone on a ventilator. She will have to make some agonizing choices. You know she simply won't be able to walk away and say "he's your problem now" when you're still alive.

If you love her and don't want to see her suffer during your final days, please follow the advice to about getting a Living Will or Advance Directive put together while there's time. And put your funeral wishes in writing, too. Depending on how someone dies, bodies aren't always accepted for medical research purposes. There should be a back-up plan.

My wife and I are both of the same mind- no resuscitation and no ventilation. Of course, the Drs might pressure her into giving in, but that's down to her.

BTW, I should never be on a ventilator for her to have to make a decision regarding taking me off one.

[HCB]

I would recommend you to inform your wife or kids or relatives to bring your ash back to your homeland much more cheaper than body. Your kids or wife can contact the local temple where is nearest place you die at to burn your body , you just pay for temple for burning service such 10k or 20k or not sure how much or maybe free of charge.

[thaibeachlovers]

I would recommend you to inform your wife or kids or relatives to bring your ash back to your homeland much more cheaper than body. Your kids or wife can contact the local temple where is nearest place you die at to burn your body , you just pay for temple for burning service such 10k or 20k or not sure how much or maybe free of charge.

Why pay anything to bring ashes back? Can just have a plaque or something to be remembered by. Ashes don't contain your soul.

People are so strange. Remember when the UK scandal about Drs removing and keeping children's organs happened and people were saying they'd have to have another funeral for the organs. What a load of bunkum! Would you have a funeral for a limb that was lost in an accident, or an organ removed because of disease? Of course you wouldn't- it's just incinerated with the rest of the garbage.

A dead body is just rotting meat, not a person's essence.