Was just charged 180 Baht at an orange and blue ATM

[jacko45k]

ATM's here are for mugs. i never use them. get your life/finances organised and you wont have to either.

How nice of you to be critical and fail to inform fully.

Well he isn't being very specific is he. If you have a local account the local ATM cards are far from being 'muggish'.

It also sounds like some US financial institutions will refund the 180 baht local charge so that would be sensible.

I would be daft to use my UK ATM card here as they certainly do not provide that service cheaply, plus the 180 baht at this end.

Taking the same card inside the bank may be better, but I would not like to be waiting as long as I did yesterday inside the bank in their rather cold ambiance, despite the nice eye candy.

[Pib]

ATM's here are for mugs. i never use them. get your life/finances organised and you wont have to either.

I have a Bangkok Bank account and if I use their ATM there is no charge

Correct for a Thai bank card; incorrect for a "foreign" bank card as that's when the foreign card Bt180 fee kicks in.

[Pib]

Take your card to a Bangkok bank and don't use the ATM. Use the window where they change money just outside the bank. I use my Charles Schwab Visa Debit Card at the money window that's on the outside of the Bangkok bank between Sukhumvit Soi 8 and 10. More accurately between Suk Soi 8 and Chuvit Park.

I ask for XX,XXX baht and they give me the amount I asked with no fee. I check my bank and Schwab gives me at or better than the wire (T/T) rate from the bank. Schwab charges me 0 zero fees for foreign transactions. You must bring your passport to do this. You do not need to belong to Bangkok Bank. Also you can take out more than the 20-25k that most ATMs allow.

I have no other experience at any other Bangkok Bank so your mileage may vary at other locations. I found this out this method when I went into the bank and asked to take out more than 25k in one shot. The fellow walked me out to the money window and that"s how I found this out.

I take the money I get from the window then walk right into the bank and deposit to my account.

Hope this helps. If you are able to do this at other Bangkok Bank locations post your experience in this thread. Or any other bank for that matter.

I have a HSBC Premier debit card that doesn't charge any foreign transaction. However, if you buy THB with your card at the currency exchange counter, you are going to pay Bangkok Bank currency rate. But if you go directly inside the branch and you make a counter withdrawal with your card (they call it "cash advance" the last time I went), you only pay Visa or Master Card exchange rate, which both have better rates than the bank itself.

Hope it helps.

The method I described I get the exchange rate of my bank, not the currency rate at the window. When I ask for 30K baht, I sign a charge receipt for 30k baht, the request for 30k baht is sent to my bank and my bank does the forex conversion. By the time I get back to the condo I check my account and do the math, the conversion is pretty darn close to the going forex market rates, not the currency exchange rate you see in the window.

When I get back from holiday I'll pull a few receipts and list my exchange with what the market rate was for comparison and post. That will be about a week from now.

Visa/Mastercard accomplishes the currency conversion (assuming you did allow a ripoff DCC transaction in which the local bank accomplished the conversion); your home country card-issuing bank "does not" accomplish the conversion although they may reflect the exchange rate on your account. And of course if your card-issuing bank charges a foreign transaction fee they will apply that fee which will either appear separately or be mixed into the actual withdrawal amount depending on how your home country bank chooses to display the info on your account.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Pib

[KhunBENQ]

Some statements confuse me...

With DCC the currency conversion is done by the local Thai Bank at terrible rates FULL STOP

Using my VISA card the conversion is done by VISA Corp. (and not by the issuing (home country) bank FULL STOP

VISA exchange rates of the day can be found here:

European VISA: http://www.visaeurope.com/making-payments/exchange-rates

US VISA: http://usa.visa.com/personal/card-benefits/travel/exchange-rate-calculator.jsp

[GotSeoul]

Visa/Mastercard accomplishes the currency conversion (assuming you did allow a ripoff DCC transaction in which the local bank accomplished the conversion); your home country card-issuing bank "does not" accomplish the conversion although they may reflect the exchange rate on your account. And of course if your card-issuing bank charges a foreign transaction fee they will apply that fee which will either appear separately or be mixed into the actual withdrawal amount depending on how your home country bank chooses to display the info on your account.

Yes Mr. Pib is correct, Visa / MasterCard does the conversion. A more accurate explanation I should have given, something like, "By the time it gets to my bank, the forex conversion ..." Instead of "... My bank converts..." Or something like that.

So to take Mr. Pib's description of events and apply to my specifics:

With my Chase card , MasterCard does the forex and charges somewhere approximately 1% on top. Then Chase charges approximately 2% for a total of approximately 3%.

With my USAA card, MasterCard does the forex and charges somewhere approximately 1% top. USAA charges approximately 0% and passes the forex and 1% charge to me.

With my Schwab card, VISA does the forex and charges somewhere approximately 1% on top. Schwab charges approximately 0% and eats the 1% fee from VISA and passes me approximately what VISA performed for the forex.

As one can imagine, I use my Schwab card because the net effect is that I get close to zero surcharge past the forex transaction. This exchange ends up being better than the currency conversion rate you would get for cash at the counter. The times that I have checked it was better than the wire transfer rate at the bank. And as I explained Bangkok Bank does not charge the 150/180 fee in the method I described, so this ends up being the least expensive way to get money from my bank in my home country to Thailand.

For those interested, when I get back from holiday I will get my receipts and figure out what ends up being the actual effective vigorish for this method and report back. I don't remember exactly but I'm thinking it is somewhere between 0.00 and 0.50% all in.

So the point to be made is if you are going to spend a reasonable amount of time in the kingdom, it would be good to get a card in your home county with the lowest forex expenses possible.

Someone correctly pointed out if you have a Thai ATM/Debit card on a Thai bank account, in most cases you pay zero ATM fees. So what I do is I use the method I previously described to get money from my home country to Thailand, then deposit it into my Thai bank account and use my Thai ATM card to get the money when I need it.

Also as Mr. Pib point out about the DCC conversion, those truly are a ripoff, somewhere between a 2-4% vig before it starts hitting your side of things. If it's a vendor I'm not familiar I always ask, "In Thai Baht Please."

However one trick I've been seeing in hotels in Indonesia is them offering rates in USD then when you check out they convert at the hotel to IDR at a rate that has about a 3% vig. They've tried to pull this on me to me at two different, very nice, worldwide chain hotels in Jakarta, but that's all for another thread.

EDIIT: also wanted to add a thanks to KhunBENQ for the links to the daily credit card exchange rates. I will reference that link on my next transaction to see how close to actual I get and report back for those interested.

Edited December 23, 2014 by GotSeoul

[tookwan cottage]

Take your card to a Bangkok bank and don't use the ATM. Use the window where they change money just outside the bank. I use my Charles Schwab Visa Debit Card at the money window that's on the outside of the Bangkok bank between Sukhumvit Soi 8 and 10. More accurately between Suk Soi 8 and Chuvit Park.

I ask for XX,XXX baht and they give me the amount I asked with no fee. I check my bank and Schwab gives me at or better than the wire (T/T) rate from the bank. Schwab charges me 0 zero fees for foreign transactions. You must bring your passport to do this. You do not need to belong to Bangkok Bank. Also you can take out more than the 20-25k that most ATMs allow.

I have no other experience at any other Bangkok Bank so your mileage may vary at other locations. I found this out this method when I went into the bank and asked to take out more than 25k in one shot. The fellow walked me out to the money window and that"s how I found this out.

I take the money I get from the window then walk right into the bank and deposit to my account.

Hope this helps. If you are able to do this at other Bangkok Bank locations post your experience in this thread. Or any other bank for that matter.

If this can work for my debit card, I will hunt you down and kneel at your feet in pure honor! Thank you so much for sharing this!!

[tookwan cottage]

Take your card to a Bangkok bank and don't use the ATM. Use the window where they change money just outside the bank. I use my Charles Schwab Visa Debit Card at the money window that's on the outside of the Bangkok bank between Sukhumvit Soi 8 and 10. More accurately between Suk Soi 8 and Chuvit Park.

I ask for XX,XXX baht and they give me the amount I asked with no fee. I check my bank and Schwab gives me at or better than the wire (T/T) rate from the bank. Schwab charges me 0 zero fees for foreign transactions. You must bring your passport to do this. You do not need to belong to Bangkok Bank. Also you can take out more than the 20-25k that most ATMs allow.

I have no other experience at any other Bangkok Bank so your mileage may vary at other locations. I found this out this method when I went into the bank and asked to take out more than 25k in one shot. The fellow walked me out to the money window and that"s how I found this out.

I take the money I get from the window then walk right into the bank and deposit to my account.

Hope this helps. If you are able to do this at other Bangkok Bank locations post your experience in this thread. Or any other bank for that matter.

I just read this again, and you are definitely a deity. Thank you!

[The Deerhunter]

How Expats handle their own particular finances using ATMs or not cannot be put into a cookie cutter solution - one size does not fit all... Making statements about your financial handling preferences - that they should apply to all is just juvenile smug arrogance. Everyone has a different financial situation and no one solution can be applied.

Using ATM as my cash source works just fine for me and many others... My primary bank reimburses my foreign ATM charges of 180 Baht - up to $15.00 each month each account and I have two accounts -- so I never really pay an ATM fee. Also my bank does not charge its own ATM fee - or bank fee for using my ATM. And there is no foreign transaction charge that my math can detect - nor is one broken out as a charge on the ledger or statement. I usually get around an average of 31.5 Baht per USD in the exchange.

And I am sure this is the case for many others. So - what is the big deal that we should avoid? Answer: Nothing.

My other Card: When using my American Express Bluebird Card for ATM withdraws at Bangkok Bank, I am charged 50 Baht for a typical 6k or 8K or 10K cash withdraw... and AMEX/Bluebird charges me $2.50 -- neither of which reimbursed to me. But the exchange rate has been averaging about 32.65 Baht per USD. Of course there is a daily limit on ATM withdraws - and with this bluebird card only $2000 can be processed through the card each month. But it is very handy at times. Using it for online purchases - and or ATM there is no foreign transaction fee - period. I use the card on occasion for airline ticket purchase as there is no over done security feature at the end of the transaction as is the case with MasterCard - which often fails.

To get the particulars on the AMEX Bluebird Pre-Paid Debit/ATM card -- go to bluebird.com -- you will notice that this card is also a full checking account if you want to use those features.

Well said. The "I am smarter than all you losers" annoys me too. I transfer once a month from home to a Thai account and because I live near a tin-pot country town I do use an ATM to draw money. But I usually use the ATM outside my own home bank. Saves waiting in a queue if all I want is cash. I usually only (need to) draw money once or twice a month. Can even update my passbook at a Thai ATM & if one of wifey's friends wants money to her mom, she dumps it in our bank at home & we transfer a bit more next time. Easy to transfer money to other people's Thai accounts at Thai ATM's. Also, my Thai bank advises me instantly by text of any and all deposits, withdrawals or auto payments occurring. For me Thai banks & ATMs work fine. Just transfer money in your home currency. Do not ask your home bank to send Thai baht to Thailand. You will usually do better if they convert it here. (My experience anyway.

[Jdiddy]

Did a cash advance out of a SCB bank atm recently with an Oz credit card

Things that were added on for a 8000baht withdrawal

intnl transaction fee $6.18

OS terminal cash adv fee $6.18

SCB ATM fee 180baht

[GotSeoul]

If this can work for my debit card, I will hunt you down and kneel at your feet in pure honor! Thank you so much for sharing this!!

I hope it works for you. The only place I've ever done this is at the Bangkok Bank branch near Sukhumvit Soi 8, between Soi 8 and Chuvit Park. If you do this at a different branch and it works (or doesn't) let us know. :-)

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Did a cash advance out of a SCB bank atm recently with an Oz credit card

Things that were added on for a 8000baht withdrawal

intnl transaction fee $6.18

OS terminal cash adv fee $6.18

SCB ATM fee 180baht

Should have utilised it for an over the counter transaction.

That way no ATM fee.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Jiu-Jitsu

[mat999]

Anyway sounds like if you have a Visa the bright yellow atms are the only ones still charging 150 baht.

[chris2004]

ATM's here are for mugs. i never use them. get your life/finances organised and you wont have to either.

And how do you get your money here?

Let us share your wisdom.

Not many will believe, but the overall best rate is achieved by bringing cash and exchange at the specialized money changers.

Today you get:

USD: 32.78

EUR: 40,1

GBP: 51.2

(no fees attached)

Try to beat it,

Yes I know this is not the no. one tip for expats living here (like me ).

That's fine most of the time but there is a risk like my friend who got all his holiday cash stolen on his first day here.

[JDGRUEN]

Anyway sounds like if you have a Visa the bright yellow atms are the only ones still charging 150 baht.

If you have a American Express Bluebird Card -- Bangkok Bank only charges 50 Baht and AMEX Bluebird has had an average of 32.65 or Baht / USD exchange rate in recent transactions with no foreign exchange fee. AMEX Bluebird does change $2.50 for the ATM fee.

Max Money that can go through a AMEX Bluebird card is $2000 / month.... (a bit of a drawback for high rollers)

bluebird.com

[mat999]

EDIT: seems like (almost) all banks have risen to 180 Baht for both MC and VISA

(My last withdrawal was at an AEON ATM with VISA card: 150 about two months ago)

Orange/blue?

Orange/dark blue: Bangkok Bank?

Yep,

Bangkok Bank now takes 180 for both MC and VISA:

• Cash withdrawal using a MasterCard issued by a foreign bank 180Bt per transaction
• Cash withdrawal using a VISA card issued by a foreign bank 180Bt per transaction

Kasikorn:

From Feb 25, 2014 - The service charge on cash withdrawal of all international or foreign credit cards via KBank's ATM machines will be charged at 180 Baht per transaction for VISA card and MasterCard, 50 Baht per transaction for China UnionPay (CUP) card and 20 Baht per transaction for all electronic cards issued by card issuer company in Thailand (Non Bank).

SCB: 180/180.

Can only find it in Thai (!)

http://www.scb.co.th/stocks/media/ratesfees/fee-t3-c4-140211.pdf

Krungsri:

Assuming that this link still is valid:

https://www.krungsri.com/bank/getmedia/cb4916d7-8cb7-4134-87d6-e236303659a5/Fees-New-19122013.aspx

they charge 180 for MC and 150 for VISA.

Combined with the fact that their ATMs spit up to 30000 Baht in one transaction they would be a "good choice".

Maybe for Visa credit cards but it is 180 for Visa debit cards, that is what I was charged from this one a few hours ago.

Sounds like Aeon is the only one left and I think someone said there is only one of those in Chiang Mai at Siam Tv?

Edited December 24, 2014 by mat999

[Pib]

Yea, I used a a Krungsri ATM a couple months ago here in Bangkok with my foreign Visa card and the fee was Bt180.

Edit: Found the fee increase notification from Bt150 to Bt180 for Visa...went into effect 8 Mar 14. See this Krungsri link. Banksters just keep sliding in small fee increases hoping no one with notice, customers figure they can't do nothing about, customers figure it's just inflation related, etc. After a while the small fee increases total up to a fat fee and the banksters are smiling all the way to the bank---since they are already at the bank they just get to set in their executive office chair, count the fee revenue, and smile.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Pib

[GotSeoul]

In a previous post on 23 Dec 2014 - 01:40, I said:

. . .

When I get back from holiday I'll pull a few receipts and list my exchange with what the market rate was for comparison and post. That will be about a week from now.

. . .

Happy New Year. Just got back to BKK from the holidays. I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas and Happy New year.

As promised from a previous post ... Today I used my Schwab card to take 32,000 baht from the Bangkok Bank money window. When I checked my Schwab account $973.93 was the amount deducted for an exchange of 32.8633194 THB for 1 USD.

The exchange rate from Visa for today is 1 THB = 0.030429 USD which is 32.8633869 THB for 1 USD.

The bank note ($100 USD) rate in the Bangkok Bank money window was 32.67 for 1 USD.

The wire rate for Bangkok Bank was 32.82 THB for 1 USD.

So looks like the Schwab rate was better than the Bangkok Bank cash exchange rate, slightly better than the Bangkok Bank wire transfer rate and within 0.000205% of the Visa forex rate with zero fees on either side.

All this being said... If I wanted to pull USD $45,000 from the US to Thailand it would take me approximately 45 days for the above method because at the moment can only pull $1,000 per day. In that case it would be worth it to spend the 25 bucks from Schwab and the 500 baht from Bangkok Bank to move that much cash.

As someone stated before, it's not cookie cutter because different folks have different needs, but if you want to bring approximately 30k THB chunks, getting 0% foreign fee card in your home country and using the Bangkok Bank money window is probably the cheapest way to get money into Thailand.

Hopefully this method helps some of you that may be looking for a more affordable way of getting money to Thailand. This method may not for everyone as different people have different needs and capabilities.

I hope everyone has a fantastic 2015. :-)

Edited January 5, 2015 by GotSeoul

[Pib]

Where you say the Schwab rate, it's actually the Visa rate but the final charge hitting your Schwab account will be rounded to two decimal points (i.e., pennies) by Schwab (or any bank) since the Visa rate is carried out to 6th decimal point. So, this rounding will make the charge applied to your Schwab account be just a hair different than the Visa rate...but usually it still ends up matching the Visa rate to the 2nd or 3rd decimal point (or more sometimes). Heck, sometimes the Schwab rounding will make it appear you got a tad better rate than Visa...but it's just how the rounding occurred for the particular amount you withdrew; next time if might be a hair less depending on the amount...but worst case we are only talking a penny difference when the rounding dust settles.

Schwab, like almost all card-issuing banks, use the Visa/Mastercard network exchange rate (whatever card network logo is on the card), and then if the card-issuing bank applies a foreign transaction fee (Schwab don't..and they even absorb the Visa applied currency conversion fee) they mix that in with the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate...or if they don't mix it in, they actually list it as a separate charge which still effectively reduces the exchange rate. Different banks will display on your account any foreign transaction fee they apply differently; unfortunately, some mix their foreign transaction fee in with Visa/Mastercard exchange to make the customer think it was Visa/Mastercard that applied the foreign transaction fee when it fact it was the card-issuing bank.

But yea, Schwab uses the Visa exchange rate....also Schwab does not add-on a foreign transaction fee and they absorb the Visa approx 1% currency conversion fee resulting in a true no foreign transaction fee card....plus they reimburse any local ATM fees at the end of the month like the Thai bank ATM fee of Bt180...but please don't abuse (overuse) this reimbursement fee policy to help avoid killing the Golden Reimbursement Goose.

One final thing, the Visa exchange rate changes midnight U.S. Eastern Time (except maybe for European bank issued Visa cards)....depending on whether the U.S. is on daylight savings time or not....so, that means the rate changes 11am or 12 noon Thailand time. So keep that in mind when comparing the rate on the Visa Exchange Rate webpage and the time stamp on your ATM receipt....you'll need to reference your Thailand time withdrawal back to U.S. Eastern Time.

[ffaarraanngg]

So to holiday in Thailand i've either got to take a couple of grand in cash and walk around with it as obviously hotel safes aren't safe as reception has access to the key. Or get charged £4 every day for using the ATM, so £50-£60 approx. for a 2 week stay.

And they wonder why tourism is down.

Thailand is the only country ive ever been to that charges such a fee, it really does highlight their contempt for visitors.

Edited January 6, 2015 by ffaarraanngg

[Pib]

Instead of contempt for visitors maybe it's more of a desire to milk what they see as cash cows (visitors).

[ffaarraanngg]

Instead of contempt for visitors maybe it's more of a desire to milk what they see as cash cows (visitors).

Either or really.

Wonder if it'll change if this ASEAN thing moves along, cant think too many Asian visitors are happy about this scam of a fee.

I wish the UK banks would target just Thai visitors with such charges.

[Pib]

Besides the Bt180 local ATM fee Thai banks rake in, they also pull in a card network "interchange fee" which is the fee the local bank receives or pays to the card-issuing bank depending on whether it's a credit card or debit card cash or purchase transaction.

When you slide your debit or credit card into the Thai bank ATM to obtain cash and the Thai bank charges you the Bt180 fee they are also earning an interchange cash disbursement fee of $0.50 + 0.15% of amount withdrawn on top of the Bt180 local ATM fee. But for a credit card purchase (not getting cash) a fee is earned in the opposite direction...that is, your card-issuing bank earns an interchange fee and the local merchant/bank pays the interchange fee. But we are not talking a purchase transaction; instead, we are talking a cash disbursement transaction so the local bank earns the interchange fee.

Using the Visa Interchange Fee Schedule for International Cash Transactions, here's an example of how the fees would work out (Mastercard's fee structure is basically the same): We get an ATM cash disbursement/withdrawal for $500 worth of baht (approx Bt16,500) using a debit/credit card...this results in the Thai bank earning their Bt180 ($5.45) local ATM fee plus $0.50 plus $0.75 (the 0.15% part) for a total of $6.70....nice little profit.

If the ATM had not charged a Bt180 local ATM fee the fee structure is different and instead the Thai bank ATM earns an interchange fee of $0.55 + 0.42% which equates to $2.65 in fees earned.

And for a manual cash disbursement (i.e., a counter cash withdrawal with a bank teller) then the Thai bank earns $1.75 plus 0.33% which equates to $3.40 in fees earned.

With Thai banks adding on such a BIG local ATM fee they are really increasing their profit far and above the interchange fee they automatically earn.

Visa Interchange Fee for International Cash Transactions Chart (note: in the chart Issuer Bank means your card-issuing bank; Acquiring Bank means the local bank accomplishing the cash transaction)

Edited January 6, 2015 by Pib