Examine ethics of teachers, say Thai students

[ThaiUser]

It makes me feel ashamed of being Thai when reading the highlighted sentence below the headline. ‘Many students shared the view that teachers and university professors should be scrutinised on their moral and ethical outlook.’

I wonder how many of the students that expressed that view could have voiced their opinion in the English language that would be understood and free of the Thai/English mix that normally is offered when trying. The problems in Thai education are not morals or an ethical outlook but the luck of language skills and mostly English language skills. Over 80% of scientific publications are done in the English language and as long as teachers and students at universities are not able to command that language Thai scientists being released from these universities will always fall short of international standards no matter how much morals and ethics are improved.

[FangFerang]

Everywhere in Asia, if a student fails in a public school, the student is to blame. If a student fails in a private school, the teacher is to blame.

Demanding ethical standards and psychology is a yellow issue, heralding a brain wash curriculum that alienates students from critical thinking and independent thought. Note that Ubon Ratchatani Rajabhat University, Khon Khen University, and especially Thamassart (where the 1970's rebellion and killing fields originated), were NOT invited. Then they made the hand picked muppets into color coded teams, so no one university could be a lightning rod for criticism.

Students talking about education reform? A good idea, if a representational cross section of students had been invited, which they were not. A few good ideas, and some very bad ideas wrapped up in the tissue paper gathered from the imaginary moral high ground suggesting that brain washing is an avenue to academic advancement.

Straight from Trotsky.

Notice not one governmental reform idea, not one re-conciliatory issue, and not one charter recommendation from the bunch. I believe the forum was very restricted in what areas they could comment upon. Not a single comment about making education more accessible to the poor. Not one comment about students accountability through exit examinations (that would have been a real test of students' ethics). And not one comment that is even remotely relevant to a Constitution.

They picked their parrots well. I hope they gave them some tasty biscuits.

[Caveat Emptor]

First requirement should be that teachers are qualified to teach.

Before that, you need a teacher training program that turns out teachers who know how to teach.

But before that, you need rid of 99% of the MoE who are stuck in 19th Century thought.

But before you can rid the MoE of them, you need to rid Thailand of the idea that the elder always knows best. And that's not going to happen.

The MoE curriculum which is what, 10-12 years old is no different from any in the Western world. Why most principals and

and teachers have not implemented it or have been allowed to make no effort to implement it is the real question.

Hope you don't think i'm being smart in answering you but from personal experience and that of others it's clear far too many teachers are resistant to change as they fear an erosion of their positions. Teachers don't like free thinking or the asking of questions and students who do are regularly penalised by suddenly failing exams and having homework assignments ripped to shreds.

Asking questions can be seen as challenging the teacher and / or suggesting the teacher's no good as the student didn't grasp the lesson immediately.

[chainarong]

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Complaining about ethics? You all must be kidding!
Go learn something.

They are learning , they've found out there is no ethics that's the whole bloody point

[ThailandRick]

Everywhere in Asia, if a student fails in a public school, the student is to blame. If a student fails in a private school, the teacher is to blame.

Demanding ethical standards and psychology is a yellow issue, heralding a brain wash curriculum that alienates students from critical thinking and independent thought. Note that Ubon Ratchatani Rajabhat University, Khon Khen University, and especially Thamassart (where the 1970's rebellion and killing fields originated), were NOT invited. Then they made the hand picked muppets into color coded teams, so no one university could be a lightning rod for criticism.

Students talking about education reform? A good idea, if a representational cross section of students had been invited, which they were not. A few good ideas, and some very bad ideas wrapped up in the tissue paper gathered from the imaginary moral high ground suggesting that brain washing is an avenue to academic advancement.

Straight from Trotsky.

Notice not one governmental reform idea, not one re-conciliatory issue, and not one charter recommendation from the bunch. I believe the forum was very restricted in what areas they could comment upon. Not a single comment about making education more accessible to the poor. Not one comment about students accountability through exit examinations (that would have been a real test of students' ethics). And not one comment that is even remotely relevant to a Constitution.

They picked their parrots well. I hope they gave them some tasty biscuits.

Honesty from what I've seen, the school system, students are set to fail in knowledge and life. Most schools are ran by the students not the teachers... Some teachers are motivated to teach and inspire the students often if not always pushed down and controlled by the students and parents through the school bosses...

Accountability and Duty to empower the teachers to teach and hold students to a standard has deteriorated to such a point that there is no surprise why many problems in their society today. A cascading effect spiraling down every day it continues.

Example of this typical type of student:

"My teacher is too strict and failing me because I cannot pass the exam after the 5th time taking it when I want because I cannot study or try to learn. It must be the teachers fault because I am so bored from school and rather hang out with friends and play games. So, I tell the Boss of Teacher about not nice to me and cannot teach me....so.... the teacher is forced to give me a passing grade or help me cheat the exam... Hmm if that doesn't work (90% works), I will tell my parents the same "teacher too strict and not teach me well"... Then my parents will complain to the Boss of Teacher and will surely pass... In the end, I learn nothing and more about manipulating the system using the "know someone" tactic and learn absolutely nothing that can surely pass on to adulthood...

This type of example is very typical and tattooed into their education system... A lot of teachers are like employees of the students because they scare the students will complain to their Boss(es). I've seen this tactic and action first hand with Thai and Western Teachers... Students have the power in the Thai System for Education... There is not quick fix but time, effort, and real reform...

Am I wrong?

ps-- I am not a teacher in Thailand But have friends both Thai & Western and Family back home that are Teachers...

"It is the supreme art of the teacher to awaken joy in creative expression and knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

[rickirs]

What does a teacher's ethical and moral outlook have to do with teaching the sciences, ie., chemistry, engineering, physics, mathematics, etc.?

[Lorn]

First requirement should be that teachers are qualified to teach.

Before that, you need a teacher training program that turns out teachers who know how to teach.

But before that, you need rid of 99% of the MoE who are stuck in 19th Century thought.

But before you can rid the MoE of them, you need to rid Thailand of the idea that the elder always knows best. And that's not going to happen.

The MoE curriculum which is what, 10-12 years old is no different from any in the Western world. Why most principals and

and teachers have not implemented it or have been allowed to make no effort to implement it is the real question.

Hope you don't think i'm being smart in answering you but from personal experience and that of others it's clear far too many teachers are resistant to change as they fear an erosion of their positions. Teachers don't like free thinking or the asking of questions and students who do are regularly penalised by suddenly failing exams and having homework assignments ripped to shreds.

Asking questions can be seen as challenging the teacher and / or suggesting the teacher's no good as the student didn't grasp the lesson immediately.

I think many teachers in many countries were resistant to changing they way they taught. However, they were forced to. Do teachers not submit lesson plans which are supposed to show which of the aims and outcomes each lesson is focussed on. Is there no monitoring of exams and assignments done on a district and subdistrict level? Is every school an island left to do whatever they want with no oversight?

[bangon04]

Maybe they should involve this as a selection criteria. Why no go further and insist all teachers sit a universal test ensuring they are graded in regard to their suitability for teaching in terms of EQ not IQ.

Maybe then, they can increase the pay too and pay us with magic unicorns and fairy dust.

Or how about an international review of the qualification and previous work. As well testing the students from universities and cancel their status if they score too bad.

Would be interesting what happens when some "Universities" get downgraded from University to Kindergarten.

Or How about international pay rates and employment standards and conditions - is my magical, out of the box, blue sky thinking too preposterous?

oooooh did he say the words "BlueSky thinking"??

[bangon04]

Everywhere in Asia, if a student fails in a public school, the student is to blame. If a student fails in a private school, the teacher is to blame.

Demanding ethical standards and psychology is a yellow issue, heralding a brain wash curriculum that alienates students from critical thinking and independent thought. Note that Ubon Ratchatani Rajabhat University, Khon Khen University, and especially Thamassart (where the 1970's rebellion and killing fields originated), were NOT invited. Then they made the hand picked muppets into color coded teams, so no one university could be a lightning rod for criticism.

Students talking about education reform? A good idea, if a representational cross section of students had been invited, which they were not. A few good ideas, and some very bad ideas wrapped up in the tissue paper gathered from the imaginary moral high ground suggesting that brain washing is an avenue to academic advancement.

Straight from Trotsky.

Notice not one governmental reform idea, not one re-conciliatory issue, and not one charter recommendation from the bunch. I believe the forum was very restricted in what areas they could comment upon. Not a single comment about making education more accessible to the poor. Not one comment about students accountability through exit examinations (that would have been a real test of students' ethics). And not one comment that is even remotely relevant to a Constitution.

They picked their parrots well. I hope they gave them some tasty biscuits.

"Thawilwadee said if there were students with contrasting ideas in areas of national reform, they could offer opinions to the NRC and CDC and related agencies, which were willing to listen to all proposals."

and then carry on with the system we already decided is in the country's best interests...

[Imale]

I think many of the comments are based on a misunderstanding of what is meant by 'ethics' here. You must recognize that participants have been selected and self-selected and anyone with anti-coup sentiments will not have been involved. In the current political situation 'ethics' is likely to mean adherence to the ideas in the 12 Thai values, i.e. a filter to keep out teachers who have opinions that the authoritarians do not agree with. It is unlikely to have anything to do with honesty, integrity, promoting progressive educational values, etc. Teaching independent thinking, for example, would be a complete non-starter, whereas anything that moved Thai education closer to the training/indoctrination end of the spectrum would be viewed favorably.

[OmarZaidMD]

The main point I gather from the students is the quality of the teaching staff, the unfortunate part is with respect to the faculty, they are correct , you get no quality with the wages that are paid for starters, no international teachers with special degree will grace the lecture podium on 30 grand Baht a month more like 180 grand baht a month, it is doubtful even then that you would get many , the internal interfering alone would deter many, there needs to be specialists from HK or Singapore or countries of high quality education to reconstruct the Education system, however this costs money, and as I have just repeated myself for the thousandth time on this subject , like the students I'd get a better response from a brick wall

Here here and Kudos. You get what you pay for, which is why i still teach in Malaysia. The system appears pretty hopeless, I agree. Most likely, the only decent education is found in private and Catholic institutions, which means the eventual death of Thai Culture.

What a pity Thais have lost their ability to truly self-govern and make reasonable choices. Too many wais and not enough brains.

[scorecard]

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I think many of the comments are based on a misunderstanding of what is meant by 'ethics' here. You must recognize that participants have been selected and self-selected and anyone with anti-coup sentiments will not have been involved. In the current political situation 'ethics' is likely to mean adherence to the ideas in the 12 Thai values, i.e. a filter to keep out teachers who have opinions that the authoritarians do not agree with. It is unlikely to have anything to do with honesty, integrity, promoting progressive educational values, etc. Teaching independent thinking, for example, would be a complete non-starter, whereas anything that moved Thai education closer to the training/indoctrination end of the spectrum would be viewed favorably.

Hey fabie, you back?

[Manbing]

Maybe they should involve this as a selection criteria. Why no go further and insist all teachers sit a universal test ensuring they are graded in regard to their suitability for teaching in terms of EQ not IQ.

Maybe then, they can increase the pay too and pay us with magic unicorns and fairy dust.

Or how about an international review of the qualification and previous work. As well testing the students from universities and cancel their status if they score too bad.

Would be interesting what happens when some "Universities" get downgraded from University to Kindergarten.

Or How about international pay rates and employment standards and conditions - is my magical, out of the box, blue sky thinking too preposterous?

oooooh did he say the words "BlueSky thinking"??

He did, but in a jokey way only.

[willyumiii]

Morals police? Ethics police?

Are'those not those the last two steps before the dream police take over??

Who will be the judge?

Will this mean no more gay and lesbian Thai teachers in the Thai education system?

We will lose 40% of the best teachers!

Maybe the university teaching students should learn about teaching the "critical thinking" teaching method the rest of the world uses instead of the rote ( I am a parrot) method they use now, like the government and education administrators have said they should use?

The students will decide who teaches...and the inmates will rule the asylum.

My heart bleeds for the students who could ecell if the system would permit them to.

This is Thailand...poor Thailand!

[Kf6vci]

Yeah, Orange Team. It's quite simple, really, isn't it? Just scrutinize those lecturers... In the real world, what people say isn't all that important.

I've been upset by many Thai teachers' attitudes. They don't see students as their customers. And they are wonderful at holding long meetings and then making grand declarations. Then what?!?

The other day, I had a job interview with a young lady who majored in English. I failed to get her to understand the word LIBRARY. I described it for minutes and rephrased the question a dozen times. No joy. She had learned a few sentences and repeated those. Like: "How old are you?" - A: "I'm fine, thank you".

But then, she was hired nevertheless. (Apparently, jobs can be bought )

The real problem is that there are lots of people out there with a degree who lack qualification. Ultimately, that degree won't do anything for them. But who will shoot Father Christmas? The education industry is getting 4% of GDP and they are loving it!