US calls planned Thai poll delay to 2016 'unwise'

[2fishin2]

The army will stay in power until something important happens. Simple as that.

What you mean there are people that actually understand Thai politics? I'm proudly from the USA and its damn glad to finally meet someone who gets all this crap! Where's our favorite scapegoat Suthep the magnificent? Oh thats right hes got that free pass into monkhood. What a frekin joke this society is.

[BernieOnTour]

....

I hope that if a certain person finds himself chomped in the jaws of China that the USA sits back and lets it happen. China is vastly underestimated as a crocodile.

That would be cannibalism then.

- a lot of those persons have Chinese blood in their vains.

Edited December 24, 2014 by BernieOnTour

[Tony125]

Saying the delay is "unwise" means they might innitiate sanctions like those which are crippling Russian economy right now and hurt other countries like Burma and Cuba whose people are still driving 1950--'s 60's cars because of the past embargo'

[selftaopath]

I think the USA isn't in the position to give recommendations......Instead they should consider to bring their own war criminals to court.

They don't recommend , the say its unwise , and they are 100% right about that.

Ah yea...... maybe by then thousands of Chinese soldiers woops I mean tourists will be visible and spending/dating :-) .

[pmarlin]

I think the USA isn't in the position to give recommendations......Instead they should consider to bring their own war criminals to court.

They don't recommend , the say its unwise , and they are 100% right about that.

The USA is 100% wrong.

and so are you

[Suffinator]

This narrative from a person that refuses to speak on record is typical of a country that that uses the word "democracy" to push their own agenda whether what they are pushing is democratic or not. If the US supported democracy they would not have been involved in over 35 seizers of power since the 1940's. If they supported democracy they would not have achieved the following;

1. Iran. 1953. Mohammad Pahlavi takes power in a coup planned and supported by the USA and UK secret services (Operation Ajax). He topples the flourishing and popular democracy of Mohammed Mossadeq.

2. Ecuador. 1963. The CIA back a military coup that overthrows President Arosemana, because of his independent policies. A military junta assumes command, cancels the 1964 elections, and begins abusing human rights.

3. El Salvador. 1963. Jose Duarte wins the election, but is immediately removed and exiled by the USA backed military. Just 14 families run most of the country's businesses, mainly coffee growing.

4. South Korea. 1979. General Chun Doo-Hwan takes power in a coup. His regime is armed and supported by the USA. One year later, the general orders the killing of hundreds of civilians in Kwangju.

5. Chad. 1981. In 1981. The CIA set up, financed and trained a Chadian military force in Sudan. Led by Hissen Habré, this force overthrows the government of Chad, ruling for 8 years with American support. Habré's regime would kill tens of thousands of people and torture over 200,000. Many dissidents would simply disappear. In 2000, Habré would be tried for his crimes in Senegal.

I have about 30 more examples too.

America doesn't need me to bash them. History speaks on my behalf.

So because the US has sinned, that makes it okay to deny Thai citizens the right to elect their own government? Is this your argument? The US has sinned and as we saw with the release of the report on Torture, continue to do so. However, we also have the right to elect our own government and the freedom to criticize our government without fear of imprisonment. Much of the information regarding past sins of the US are public knowledge because we have a free press and an elected government. The report on torture came from our own government. Imagine that in most other countries of the world.

Are you sure you have the freedom to elect your own government? Bush Vs Gore ... there remains strong evidence Gore won the Presidential election. Regardless of that the only thing US citizens effectively does is to vote in yet another puppet who takes their orders from the Federal Reserve and Corporations ... JP Morgan; I care not who makes the laws as long as I control the money.

Woodrow Wilson signs the Federal Reserve Act that effectively hands over ALL power to the bankers and Nixon moves the dollar from gold to oil (Petro-Dollar) thus resulting in a worthless currency and a country carrying $18 trillion in debt.

The US and indeed the UK have been complicit in a number of criminal acts including installing and supporting Saddam H., even supplying him with chemical weapons to bomb Iran with ... funny how Iran is always seen as the aggressor and yet hasn't attacked another country since 1718.

The only real benefit to all foreigners here is that they are still free to leave ... let the Thais do what they want; if they want to head down the road of elitism which will inevitably lead to civil war then let them have at it.

[rubl]

A delay may be unwise, but would a rushed poll be that much better only because some still think democracy = elections ?

Since Thailand is going through reforms, a constitution update, a possible referendum, the stability by having some 'government' present seems much more important than having a poll with reforms in progress and a constitution in limbo.

[I Like Thai]

I think the USA isn't in the position to give recommendations......Instead they should consider to bring their own war criminals to court.

They don't recommend , the say its unwise , and they are 100% right about that.

The USA is 100% wrong.

In what way? Thais are running away from democracy and into the arms of China. The US has long had a defense treaty with Thailand guaranteeing Thailand protection against foreign enemies.

It can't have been a year, can it, since the USA sailed two Nimitz-class aircraft carrier groups through Asia in a show of force when China was threatening Islands belonging to other countries, blocking commercial air routes, and violating fishing rights of smaller countries in the South China Sea?

Also,

"LAEM CHABANG, Thailand (NNS) -- Aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN 72), accompanied by guided-missile cruiser Cape St. George (CG 71), departed Laem Chabang, Thailand, Jan. 10, (2012) following a four-day port visit.

While in Thailand, Sailors from the two ships visited with the people of Thailand, experienced the local culture and participated in a series of community service projects (COMSERVs) to further strengthen the relationship between the two countries. " LINK

NOW tell me what the US is to do if China starts bullying again but Thailand has run into its arms? Should the US void the treaty and let China have at it?

The US is a long time ally of Thailand and the second largest buyer of Thai exports after Japan. Japan is an ally of the USA.

It will be shown that Thailand is screwing the pooch.

I hope that if a certain person finds himself chomped in the jaws of China that the USA sits back and lets it happen. China is vastly underestimated as a crocodile.

America should mind it's own business, that's what it should do.

America gets involved in other countries only for Americas interests, it has no interest in what might be best for the countries it interferes with

[nong38]

Things take longer here to happen and people who can form a an opinion through Western eyes a long way off using their own standards will never understand how things work here.

An election in 2016 has been mentioned, well it would not surprise me if it were delayed even more. The Junta plans hardly seem to have changed the face of the earth up to date, military time and political time are not the same and Prayuth may not have known that when he took control but he must have twigged it now, we will see how things unfurl.

The US announcement is not helpful to the situation here, it was not required, but, it does deflect things away from other news stories.

[Docno]

This narrative from a person that refuses to speak on record is typical of a country that that uses the word "democracy" to push their own agenda whether what they are pushing is democratic or not. If the US supported democracy they would not have been involved in over 35 seizers of power since the 1940's. If they supported democracy they would not have achieved the following;

1. Iran. 1953. Mohammad Pahlavi takes power in a coup planned and supported by the USA and UK secret services (Operation Ajax). He topples the flourishing and popular democracy of Mohammed Mossadeq.

2. Ecuador. 1963. The CIA back a military coup that overthrows President Arosemana, because of his independent policies. A military junta assumes command, cancels the 1964 elections, and begins abusing human rights.

3. El Salvador. 1963. Jose Duarte wins the election, but is immediately removed and exiled by the USA backed military. Just 14 families run most of the country's businesses, mainly coffee growing.

4. South Korea. 1979. General Chun Doo-Hwan takes power in a coup. His regime is armed and supported by the USA. One year later, the general orders the killing of hundreds of civilians in Kwangju.

5. Chad. 1981. In 1981. The CIA set up, financed and trained a Chadian military force in Sudan. Led by Hissen Habré, this force overthrows the government of Chad, ruling for 8 years with American support. Habré's regime would kill tens of thousands of people and torture over 200,000. Many dissidents would simply disappear. In 2000, Habré would be tried for his crimes in Senegal.

I have about 30 more examples too.

America doesn't need me to bash them. History speaks on my behalf.

All true - but even hypocrites can be right some of the time.

[greenchair]

It will get pushed further.

Nothing can change for a while. I mean they have only just completed a little of the purge.

Yes , but do you think they can be all purged out by 2016

[djjamie]

A delay may be unwise, but would a rushed poll be that much better only because some still think democracy = elections ?

Since Thailand is going through reforms, a constitution update, a possible referendum, the stability by having some 'government' present seems much more important than having a poll with reforms in progress and a constitution in limbo.

Look at what happened when the PTP rushed elections in February when everyone warned them they should wait.

An approach that reduces democracy to only a mechanism of conducting elections is not a guarantee for real democratic change especially if democratic values and principles are deliberately ignored and disrespected. A democracy without democrats can only mean old violent politics is played out albeit under a different name. Despite deceiving appearances Thai elections have had little to do with a genuine democratic process.

While democracy works for the benefit of the majority if not the whole population Thai elections have worked for the interests of a few political elites at the behest of the majority. An election prematurely will ensure violence in the streets and terrorists killing our children once again. Having elections prematurely will be a one way ticket to a power grab and nothing beyond that. Having elections prematurely will again give us an elected government that fail to deliver to the very people who trusted and voted for them.

Before rushing to elections there needs to be reform. It is critical to allow democracy to flourish and for that reform is needed. Are some so blinded by this almost crazed addiction to an election only to be witness once again to a broken corrupt democracy. Do people love coups that much that they don't want to see this done right now so coups will be obsolete in the future? I hate coups and this is why I want to see this done right now so I do not have to see an army come in on behalf of the majority to stop the country being held hostage at the barrel of a gun. Or in this case an M79 grenade launcher with complete impunity to prosecution by the so called elected government.

AND people…Elections are not the only part of democracy. It is all I ever hear from some while the other principles are conveniently overlooked when the PTP were in power, but are brought up incessantly when the guys that are trying to restore democracy took power.

Edited December 24, 2014 by djjamie

[Equalizer]

''After a decade of factional rivalry''. This is called party politics General. Maybe you need to address the real problem and this is there are far more uneducated poor people in Thailand than the BKK and southern business elite. They will always win an election because they know no better nor do they understand politics. Instigating riot after riot will not solve your long term problems and this is to find some middle ground with a party that has both sides interests in its manifesto. Wind in the daisy chains and let the country and its people progress. BYE

[Rob8891]

Congratulations to djjamie and Equalizer for taking the thread back on topic. As usual, it had been hijacked by fragile egos from the States. Get over yourselves!

<Deleted the rest for the sake of peace and quiet>

[emilymat]

.

The US announcement is not helpful to the situation here, it was not required, but, it does deflect things away from other news stories.

What? Like 'Taxi driver returns a wallet" with bit of finger pointing thrown in?.

Personally, I don't know why people are getting so vitriolic about this issue.

Merry Xmas. I mean it.

[tbthailand]

Interfering with internal issues of other countries is also unwise but the US keeps doing that.

For one country to express it's views to others, how is that interfering with internal issues of other countries?

But a further question...

When countries with a semblance of self-government have their government overthrown by a military 'intervention', other countries should just mind their own business?

[tbthailand]

A delay may be unwise, but would a rushed poll be that much better only because some still think democracy = elections ?

Since Thailand is going through reforms, a constitution update, a possible referendum, the stability by having some 'government' present seems much more important than having a poll with reforms in progress and a constitution in limbo.

Look at what happened when the PTP rushed elections in February when everyone warned them they should wait.

An approach that reduces democracy to only a mechanism of conducting elections is not a guarantee for real democratic change especially if democratic values and principles are deliberately ignored and disrespected. A democracy without democrats can only mean old violent politics is played out albeit under a different name. Despite deceiving appearances Thai elections have had little to do with a genuine democratic process.

While democracy works for the benefit of the majority if not the whole population Thai elections have worked for the interests of a few political elites at the behest of the majority. An election prematurely will ensure violence in the streets and terrorists killing our children once again. Having elections prematurely will be a one way ticket to a power grab and nothing beyond that. Having elections prematurely will again give us an elected government that fail to deliver to the very people who trusted and voted for them.

Before rushing to elections there needs to be reform. It is critical to allow democracy to flourish and for that reform is needed. Are some so blinded by this almost crazed addiction to an election only to be witness once again to a broken corrupt democracy. Do people love coups that much that they don't want to see this done right now so coups will be obsolete in the future? I hate coups and this is why I want to see this done right now so I do not have to see an army come in on behalf of the majority to stop the country being held hostage at the barrel of a gun. Or in this case an M79 grenade launcher with complete impunity to prosecution by the so called elected government.

AND people…Elections are not the only part of democracy. It is all I ever hear from some while the other principles are conveniently overlooked when the PTP were in power, but are brought up incessantly when the guys that are trying to restore democracy took power.

Look at what happened when the PTP rushed elections in February when everyone warned them they should wait.

The constitution at the time specified that elections must be held after the dissolution of parliament within a specified period of time - seems to me to have been 60 or 90 days...

This was driving the timing of the elections. Adherence to the constitutional process.

[Thian]

Since the coup BKK has become a much safer place then before the coup.

The USA should do the same in city's as Detroit. Once they built cars there and now it's known of the pawnshop on tv.

[longway]

When is the last time the USA did something 'wise'?

[Emster23]

Interfering with internal issues of other countries is also unwise but the US keeps doing that.

For one country to express it's views to others, how is that interfering with internal issues of other countries?

But a further question...

When countries with a semblance of self-government have their government overthrown by a military 'intervention', other countries should just mind their own business?

I generally agree with points. I am American. I want all those who got torture program going to be brought to ICC. However, why is USA so buddy buddy with overthrow in Egypt? total over throw of any form of justice (so many thousands given death penalty for just being at a rally, for example). Thailand should promote Muslim extremists in South, then could do anything they wanted with rest of the country, and US would just shovel them more cash and weapons.

USA does plenty wrong in the world, and also does good things. When US screws up I yell far louder than many of the Euroweenies on TV.

[cup-O-coffee]

The Junta are holding off on that one principle of democracy that you stated so the other principles can be restored.

As an American, I won't deny that the US is often hypocritical in its foreign relations and has intervened disastrously and even maliciously in other countries' affairs. However, those facts do not change two critically important things to understand about Thailand's situation: ( a ) Thailand has never had democracy, and therefore there's nothing to restore. Democracy is still on Thailand's frontier; and ( b ) The junta, far from benevolent, are merely holding power until a momentous occasion occurs. They have no intentions of guiding the country toward democratic principles. People who believe otherwise are deluded or ignorant.

I was perusing all the comments until I saw yours.

Bang on!!!!!

I would rather have tanks and soldiers in the streets to maintain order and allow ascendancy, than lunatics and greedy politicians cannibalizing a grieving country.

I tip my beer and hat to Prayuth (spelling?). His job is historically one of the toughest on record. He can't say a damn thing, yet he still holds fast. I do not envy him, but I do respect his trial and perhaps the task he has been (possibly) asked to undertake.

Bless this country in the time to come, and people will eventually thank their lucky stars that Prayuth is at the helm.

The more the USA makes "announcements" the more I grieve on a personal level. They are so out of touch that it beggars me.

I bash Thailand a lot, but there is a place in my heart for the future, that is reserved for all my sympathy and heartfelt best wishes for a chance at a New Thailand. I really mean that.

I do see sunshine after the rain and thunder on the horizon.

[Alwyn]

I think the USA isn't in the position to give recommendations......Instead they should consider to bring their own war criminals to court.

They don't recommend , the say its unwise , and they are 100% right about that.

The USA is 100% wrong.

why?

[tbthailand]

I think the USA isn't in the position to give recommendations......Instead they should consider to bring their own war criminals to court.

They don't recommend , the say its unwise , and they are 100% right about that.

The USA is 100% wrong.

why?

Usually the answer goes along the lines of

'squirrel!'

[thailiketoo]

What does all of you people's hatred of the USA have to do with the point that free elections in Thailand should happen as soon as possible?

What country other than Russia, Cuba, China and other totalitarian dictatorships would not want free elections?

Australia is reducing its interaction with Thailand's military, Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said on Saturday, adding three planned activities had been postponed due to the coup, according to The Straights Times of Singapore.

The European Union External Action Office (EEAS) released a statement expressing EU’s extreme concern on the situation in Thailand. EEAS announced on 28 May: "We are following current developments with extreme concern. Thailand must urgently restore the legitimate democratic process and the Constitution, through credible and inclusive elections. We urge the military leadership to free all those who have been detained for political reasons in recent days and to remove censorship. We call on all parties to exercise the utmost restraint. Respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms must be upheld. Only an early and credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule and elections will allow for EU's continuous support.

All of the Western countries want Thailand to have elections, not just the USA.

I know some of you folks like to bash the US in any thread but your are being disingenuous and doing Thailand a disservice in trying to make every thread a USA bashing fest rather than the topic of the thread.

[tbthailand]

Interfering with internal issues of other countries is also unwise but the US keeps doing that.

For one country to express it's views to others, how is that interfering with internal issues of other countries?

But a further question...

When countries with a semblance of self-government have their government overthrown by a military 'intervention', other countries should just mind their own business?

I generally agree with points. I am American. I want all those who got torture program going to be brought to ICC. However, why is USA so buddy buddy with overthrow in Egypt? total over throw of any form of justice (so many thousands given death penalty for just being at a rally, for example). Thailand should promote Muslim extremists in South, then could do anything they wanted with rest of the country, and US would just shovel them more cash and weapons.

USA does plenty wrong in the world, and also does good things. When US screws up I yell far louder than many of the Euroweenies on TV.

well, yes, we could go off on a long list of things the USA has screwed up, but I was working from the starting point that NM was referring to this current article.

On re-reading it, that could have been a bad assumption on my part.

Also an American, and I understand that we screw up a lot of things around the world. We helped cement the military + elite alliance in Thailand in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. That is still the basic problem in Thailand today.

But to express an opinion that democracy should be reinstated sooner rather than later is not (in my opinion) out of line.

[jpeg]

According go my wife and several friends, Thai social media and several news outlets are characterizing/reporting the comments as the US calling Thailand and Thais 'stupid' and a fast-growing number of people are livid.

Ironic really. When I asked a Thai friend why the antipathy towards the Chinese he said 'because they say we Thais are lazy and stupid'. Poot jing nitnoy ...

[jpeg]

I was perusing all the comments until I saw yours.

Bang on!!!!!

I would rather have tanks and soldiers in the streets to maintain order and allow ascendancy, than lunatics and greedy politicians cannibalizing a grieving country.

I tip my beer and hat to Prayuth (spelling?). His job is historically one of the toughest on record. He can't say a damn thing, yet he still holds fast. I do not envy him, but I do respect his trial and perhaps the task he has been (possibly) asked to undertake.

Bless this country in the time to come, and people will eventually thank their lucky stars that Prayuth is at the helm.

The more the USA makes "announcements" the more I grieve on a personal level. They are so out of touch that it beggars me.

I bash Thailand a lot, but there is a place in my heart for the future, that is reserved for all my sympathy and heartfelt best wishes for a chance at a New Thailand. I really mean that.

I do see sunshine after the rain and thunder on the horizon.

[Baerboxer]

What does all of you people's hatred of the USA have to do with the point that free elections in Thailand should happen as soon as possible?

What country other than Russia, Cuba, China and other totalitarian dictatorships would not want free elections?

Australia is reducing its interaction with Thailand's military, Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said on Saturday, adding three planned activities had been postponed due to the coup, according to The Straights Times of Singapore.

The European Union External Action Office (EEAS) released a statement expressing EU’s extreme concern on the situation in Thailand. EEAS announced on 28 May: "We are following current developments with extreme concern. Thailand must urgently restore the legitimate democratic process and the Constitution, through credible and inclusive elections. We urge the military leadership to free all those who have been detained for political reasons in recent days and to remove censorship. We call on all parties to exercise the utmost restraint. Respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms must be upheld. Only an early and credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule and elections will allow for EU's continuous support.

All of the Western countries want Thailand to have elections, not just the USA.

I know some of you folks like to bash the US in any thread but your are being disingenuous and doing Thailand a disservice in trying to make every thread a USA bashing fest rather than the topic of the thread.

I'm sure your right that all the Western countries support what they see as democracy, the right to vote and elect a government free from hindrance as desirable.

But, that also relies on having robust judicial systems, laws and law enforcement in place to underpin the parliamentary process. Thailand has never had a real democracy. and lacks the robust legal framework and systems to support it.

That the US would allow a convicted fugitive with 15 serious charges waiting in the courts a visa, and entry into their country suggests a bias to seeing certain powers in charge. Powers who are seen as being favorable to the US agenda. Regardless of the consequences for Thailand, the Thai people, and the pretend democracy that regime brings. The US have done this before when it suits their agenda. EU, especially the "special friend" UK will always go along with it. Australia, quite frankly, just isn't an important country, and nor are its views.

[Galangal]

The U.S. government chomping at the bit to install its vision of a one world government?

Seems wherever US sticks its nose, trouble starts brewing. Am I right or am I right?

[Nickymaster]

I think the USA isn't in the position to give recommendations......Instead they should consider to bring their own war criminals to court.

They don't recommend , the say its unwise , and they are 100% right about that.

The USA is 100% wrong.

why?

Because the mess that was created by Thaksin the last decade or so takes longer to clean up.