Secure, long-term financial support for Thai family....!? HELP!

moonseeker · December 28, 2014

Sorry to hear about your circumstances. So if I understand your situation correctly, you want to provide for this mother of 2 in the long run (when you are not around anymore) with a monthly payment of 30k because you worry she couldn't manage a lump sum payment? If that is the case there are 3 options that come to my mind.

1) as you mention a trust/Stiftung outside Thailand to be set up who makes that monthly payment + manages the assets obviously with the target to preserve the money.

2) you have a friend or a person you trust who will manage the money on behalf of the beneficiary and who makes sure she will get 30k each month (similar to trust/Stiftung without the legal set up)

3) you invest the money in assets that cannot be sold easily and provide regular returns. I.e. you could buy property in her name or even in the children's name. For example you could buy a student apartment building in her name which she manages, provides her with good income in the long run and some more or less easy work.

The trust or Stiftung seems to be the best option for what you are looking for. The only caveat I have is that 12mn baht is rather small, so suggest you speak to one of the many companies who offer those services and find out what options you have.

Last but not least, my view is also that everyone has some responsibility for themselves. So with some basic instruction, this mother should be able to manage a 12mn lumpsum payment and be able to live of it's interest and provide for her children without blowing it all.

hope this helps and wish you all the best.

Thank you Robert. Some very good points. I am looking into immediate annuities, also paying low at such a young age. Also discussed today to buy her a few condos for rent. Great idea. She is in the business and knows how to run this well. This would provide the highest rate of income. And if properly done and maintained will certainly increase in value long-term. Foundation and such costly and tax-concerns. She will still get a good cushion in cash, but 12 Mio. in cash is too risky I feel. I will keep up to date what comes out of this. Sorry, if I can not answer to everybody. I certainly read all. MS>

Spock · December 28, 2014

Am very interested in the outcome of this as I have a similar need to provide for a Thai friend currently doing a 13 year jail sentence, hopefully reduced eventually to seven.

I cannot set up anything in his name while he is in prison, but like the OP, the possibility of not being around at the time the money is needed and able to be received worries me. Some good ideas have been suggested by posters which have at least given me some hope that a permanent solution will present itself. Have bookmarked this thread so that I can follow it through to its conclusion. Cheers guys.

moonseeker · December 28, 2014

Am very interested in the outcome of this as I have a similar need to provide for a Thai friend currently doing a 13 year jail sentence, hopefully reduced eventually to seven.

I cannot set up anything in his name while he is in prison, but like the OP, the possibility of not being around at the time the money is needed and able to be received worries me. Some good ideas have been suggested by posters which have at least given me some hope that a permanent solution will present itself. Have bookmarked this thread so that I can follow it through to its conclusion. Cheers guys.

I am not German :-), but they have some good and secure choices for insurances. I am checking with a local honest broker with business here & there. Will publish results next year :-)....They call it "Sofort-Renten) / Immediate Annuities i.e. a 34 yr. old with 300K Euros 1x payment can expect about 550/mth. life-long, with small increases over the years. Not much, but pretty safe. They have misc. versions, also with transfer to kids if early death etc. I have to be careful not to become to control-obsessed, but stuff like this keeps me alive right now. Trust me, it is a shock and I am very experienced with all kinds of medical emergencies and problems all the way to death. Bloody different if you yourself get the call. The good thing, I am informed. I know what is coming. And....I have just enough time to prepare, it would have been different in a bike crash, maybe. Thank you all...Bedtime....MS>

JacChang · December 28, 2014

moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

sead · December 28, 2014

A house or condo in your name transferred to her when you decide. Schools prepaid for children some years ahead. University paid by your appointed . A scooter for her to come around. Some money in bank that can generate 7-8k bht monthly.

hhgz · December 28, 2014

If you're highly critical, you've undoubtedly thought of the possibility that, once you've turned your back, all of the assets will be liquidated, and the money spent foolishly. It should be easy to find a financial consultant in your home country to make suitable investments, and transfer periodic payments to an account...which your beloved could access with an ATM card. Dozens of users have posted the oft-ignored advice that a Schwab account can be accessed without any ATM charges.

You want a steady periodic 9% annualized return and the advice of using gold trading and rice fields to obtain that is nonsensical.

moonseeker · December 28, 2014

moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

Wow! Thank you very much. Exactly the help I have been hoping for! This is a very detailed and interesting write-up. Thank you so much. Absolutely, heavy filters needed :-) Fully understood. But...If I buy all this in my name/account. ATM cards expire. How will they get renewed. Etc. Etc. This girl is by now educated enough to understand the seriousness of the situation, she has run several of my businesses (me directing and troubleshooting from background) and many, many Mio have gone though her hands. She never asked for a dime all these years and is not money-hungry at all. Still a simple girl. Also very well-known and successful. Fully trusted, never anything amiss or wrong. So just maybe, I could actually set up that entire proposal of yours in her name....If she screws up, she knows of the consequences.

Sorry, I have never invested in Thailand and am totally ignorant, but I am an active investor abroad. I understand correct? I open a brokerage account, which is held and managed by that firm, Dividends paid in a KK-account.

Option 2, I consider, but this means for her more work (without my support as til now!), buying her a bunch of studios, she is in the business and very good at renting, all established businesses and she could easily make double the money, BUT would be stuck in her location and job, which is really too much for her. Or she will end up with some bloody C like myself down the road. 30 yrs. of stress have done this to me...555...

I can easily add a bit to the initial sum and my first thought, still digesting, it might be better getting a bit less income, but long-term, safe, than starting a new venture and new stress. She could move back up country to her mother, they have a nice home etc. etc. GREAT HELP and food to think in the PET today.

I really like your proposal and will discuss with her asap. These brokerage firms, do they have offices? In Pattaya by chance? Or all online? Would you have a couple of reliable names by any chance. What kind of insurance you mention above? Do you know about tax consequences in such a case? Sorry, my head is not 100% these days. Wow, you got me thinking now. Already written to them for proposal along your lines. I can easily do 10 Mio and still leave them some in mutual fund as you mention. Hope I got enough time to get this going. Sounds much better than anything I have been looking at so far and she makes almost as much with possibility of a job that pleases her and is a bit more easy. Thank you so very much. May I bother you some more, after digesting this.....Please.... Off to more scans.... MS>

Edited December 28, 2014 by moonseeker

AyG · December 28, 2014

Very interesting selection of stocks, but this is hopelessly overoptimistic:

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years.

Companies just don't stay around for that long. The average lifespan of an S&P 500 company is around 25 years. (I don't have equivalent figures for the Thai market.)

Look at the FT30 index. How many of the original constituents are still around? Associated Portland Cement, Bolsover Colliery, Callenders Cables & Construction, Fine Spinners and Doublers, Guest Keen & Nettlefolds and plenty of others. All fine businesses in their day, but where are they now?

Indeed, with the rise of ~~asset stripping~~ private equity, average company lifespan is only likely to get shorter.

maidee · December 29, 2014

OP, you got the C word

did you get a second opinion ?

or a third ?

if you are gone, you did your deed, you have the money

what they do with it, will be out of your control anyway

if they want to have the high life, for a few years and lose it all, what do you care .. you will be long gone

the "mother" will not take long to find a new thai or farang husband that will help to manage all that wealth and make it HIS in the short term

Edited December 29, 2014 by maidee

moonseeker · December 29, 2014

if you are gone, you did your deed, you have the money

what they do with it, will be out of your control anyway

if they want to have the high life, for a few years and lose it all, what do you care .. you will be long gone

the "mother" will not take long to find a new thai or farang husband that will help to manage all that wealth and make it HIS in the short term

Hi Maidee. I DO care. Always did, all my life. For many. So I will do my best anyway. Will post when I have the solution. I hope she finds a new partner. Hopefully the right one. THX. MS>

1FinickyOne · December 29, 2014

Not knowing your full situation - but best is to keep it as simple as possible. I would focus this mostly upon putting the $$ into the hands of the person you want as the recipient… there may not be a perfect answer as everyone has differing views as to how to best use funds, but would you rather have this favorite person blow the funds themself or have someone else steal it?

laislica · December 29, 2014

Sorry to read your reasons to need to rush this along.

Would you consider buying property(s) in a suitable location(s) that the family could rent out and have the rental income.

Should the family decide to sell part of their holdings and therefore reduce the monthly income - up to them.

Ownership of the property(s) would be given to whom ever you desired, all to one person or spread to different family members.

You would be setting them up in a capital based business and this could be done quite quickly and easily.

It is my understanding that Thai's can manage very well on a tiny fraction of what we westerners need.

90Kb/month would be something like a full salary of 15kb/month for 6 people who would not need to work but would be able to support their own family (their parents and their own children).

IMO not working is a bad thing.

Better to help them but not to spoil them. Idle hands do the devils work etc.

If they are involved in creating the earnings, I am sure they will appreciate it more than simply receiving a bank transfer every month.

Office workers get about 15Kb/month and shop workers about 8Kb/month.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

KonaRain · December 29, 2014

I like the annuity idea, tho my friend in T.Land lost hers when British American Life went under.

(in the Caribbean).

Trusts can be tailored in the U.S.for any purpose..(for the sum of $10 I as Grantor)..etc.

Also, gold comes in paper..1/0 gram 'bills' now..easy to spend,or will be one day!

Bullion is good of course..

Interesting thread..

Aloha to all

alanrchase · December 29, 2014

Dear all:

I need urgent advise from some of the smart people on this forum. Never thought it would come to this, as i am highly critical of Thaines and all money related matters here.

However, tragic personal circumstances changed my mind in respect to a family i have learned to respect over the years and i need technical advise how to provide for a Thai family with a secure, very long-term quarterly "pension".

It has become very difficult setting up accounts / portfolios / foundations etc. in Europe, also I am looking into this.

Scenario:

???? Ca. 90K. Baht every quarter, to mother (30) and if something happens to her, to her then grown 2 kids. For this case I have have about 12 Mio budgeted, a couple of Mio to buy a house to live rent-free and some extra cash planned. Possibly factor in an inflation factor...? I am a bit lost at the moment with the world collapsing on me and I appreciate very much any guidance, even just getting me on the right path. Thank you all & Happy New Year. MS>

Love the term "Thainess".

JacChang · December 29, 2014

Very interesting selection of stocks, but this is hopelessly overoptimistic:

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years.

Companies just don't stay around for that long. The average lifespan of an S&P 500 company is around 25 years. (I don't have equivalent figures for the Thai market.)

Look at the FT30 index. How many of the original constituents are still around? Associated Portland Cement, Bolsover Colliery, Callenders Cables & Construction, Fine Spinners and Doublers, Guest Keen & Nettlefolds and plenty of others. All fine businesses in their day, but where are they now?

Indeed, with the rise of ~~asset stripping~~ private equity, average company lifespan is only likely to get shorter.

If you really read my post, you wouldn't be saying that.

These are not simply stocks, they are more considered real estate funds. Investors pool their money together and managed by a certain bank with a specific investment policy. For BTSGIF, the funds is used to buy the rights to ticket revenues and so on at certain stations. BTS basically has to rent from the investors by giving the revenue from sales of tickets. Same with other funds I have suggested.

You are right, companies don't stay forever, but most corporations and groups do, they just change interest in companies.

However, I fail to realize how your post has ANY relevance to my specific post. Or it's just one of those to take down other people's suggestions on stocks. "Oh it's scary, stay away." I've heard enough, it's the same people who never invest in anything. Like I've stated in my post on the last section, been there done that, I yawn everytime someone is a cynic to the ideas.

So to rephrase, these funds will stay for a very long time, regardless if the company changes. I've had a few minor hotel funds which are similar to these, where the hotel has a problem paying the "rent", in the end, the management company sues the hotel for unpaid rent and court authorizes 7%+ interest rate on undue payment. After this, the property simply kicks out the old hotel business, and allows a new hotel to operate there.

So back to the OP, the funds suggested to you, is specific for your goals. I humbly believe it will be what you need. But it's your choice, you can believe the naysayers too, in 20 years BTS will disappear, we will be riding horses and eating grass. Central world will cease to exist, we will only have talad nads.

alanrchase · December 29, 2014

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Very interesting selection of stocks, but this is hopelessly overoptimistic:

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years.

Companies just don't stay around for that long. The average lifespan of an S&P 500 company is around 25 years. (I don't have equivalent figures for the Thai market.)

Look at the FT30 index. How many of the original constituents are still around? Associated Portland Cement, Bolsover Colliery, Callenders Cables & Construction, Fine Spinners and Doublers, Guest Keen & Nettlefolds and plenty of others. All fine businesses in their day, but where are they now?

Indeed, with the rise of ~~asset stripping~~ private equity, average company lifespan is only likely to get shorter.

If you really read my post, you wouldn't be saying that.

These are not simply stocks, they are more considered real estate funds. Investors pool their money together and managed by a certain bank with a specific investment policy. For BTSGIF, the funds is used to buy the rights to ticket revenues and so on at certain stations. BTS basically has to rent from the investors by giving the revenue from sales of tickets. Same with other funds I have suggested.

You are right, companies don't stay forever, but most corporations and groups do, they just change interest in companies.

However, I fail to realize how your post has ANY relevance to my specific post. Or it's just one of those to take down other people's suggestions on stocks. "Oh it's scary, stay away." I've heard enough, it's the same people who never invest in anything. Like I've stated in my post on the last section, been there done that, I yawn everytime someone is a cynic to the ideas.

So to rephrase, these funds will stay for a very long time, regardless if the company changes. I've had a few minor hotel funds which are similar to these, where the hotel has a problem paying the "rent", in the end, the management company sues the hotel for unpaid rent and court authorizes 7%+ interest rate on undue payment. After this, the property simply kicks out the old hotel business, and allows a new hotel to operate there.

So back to the OP, the funds suggested to you, is specific for your goals. I humbly believe it will be what you need. But it's your choice, you can believe the naysayers too, in 20 years BTS will disappear, we will be riding horses and eating grass. Central world will cease to exist, we will only have talad nads.

All investments are a bit of a gamble. Fixed term deposits possibly safer but low returns. How far are you prepared to go on a bit of a gamble? Bought a stock a month ago and it fell out of the FTSE 100. Dried my tears and will wait.

JacChang · December 29, 2014

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Very interesting selection of stocks, but this is hopelessly overoptimistic:

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years.

Companies just don't stay around for that long. The average lifespan of an S&P 500 company is around 25 years. (I don't have equivalent figures for the Thai market.)

Look at the FT30 index. How many of the original constituents are still around? Associated Portland Cement, Bolsover Colliery, Callenders Cables & Construction, Fine Spinners and Doublers, Guest Keen & Nettlefolds and plenty of others. All fine businesses in their day, but where are they now?

Indeed, with the rise of ~~asset stripping~~ private equity, average company lifespan is only likely to get shorter.

If you really read my post, you wouldn't be saying that.
These are not simply stocks, they are more considered real estate funds. Investors pool their money together and managed by a certain bank with a specific investment policy. For BTSGIF, the funds is used to buy the rights to ticket revenues and so on at certain stations. BTS basically has to rent from the investors by giving the revenue from sales of tickets. Same with other funds I have suggested.
You are right, companies don't stay forever, but most corporations and groups do, they just change interest in companies.
However, I fail to realize how your post has ANY relevance to my specific post. Or it's just one of those to take down other people's suggestions on stocks. "Oh it's scary, stay away." I've heard enough, it's the same people who never invest in anything. Like I've stated in my post on the last section, been there done that, I yawn everytime someone is a cynic to the ideas.
So to rephrase, these funds will stay for a very long time, regardless if the company changes. I've had a few minor hotel funds which are similar to these, where the hotel has a problem paying the "rent", in the end, the management company sues the hotel for unpaid rent and court authorizes 7%+ interest rate on undue payment. After this, the property simply kicks out the old hotel business, and allows a new hotel to operate there.

So back to the OP, the funds suggested to you, is specific for your goals. I humbly believe it will be what you need. But it's your choice, you can believe the naysayers too, in 20 years BTS will disappear, we will be riding horses and eating grass. Central world will cease to exist, we will only have talad nads.

All investments are a bit of a gamble. Fixed term deposits possibly safer but low returns. How far are you prepared to go on a bit of a gamble? Bought a stock a month ago and it fell out of the FTSE 100. Dried my tears and will wait.

Haha, that my friend is gamble. There is a very clear line between who the gamblers are and who the investors are in this game. Any one who blindly goes out there and buys stock without any extensive research is a gambler. Us? We analyze each stock in and out, read all the financial statements, the technical charts, number by number, ratio by ratio. Take 1,000 companies, and only filter out maximum 20 that is capable of buying. Others we never buy, they are just disgusting trash. But hey? People are still buying those trash, but? We don't.

Yes, fixed deposits is the safest, but how safe? You do realize every term deposit you put in, you are roughly losing 0-1% per year? Inflation. It cushions inflation to the best of it's ability, but is unable to defeat it. If they could defeat it, governments would not issue bonds, it is a losing business. This I will not explain in detail here, but give you a rough idea. The government borrows money from you at this specific time with an interest rate to give you. But prints out money over the 20 years, and returns you with inflated money, that allows you to actually buy less in 20 years time. They win. Fixed deposits are only good for 1-5 years duration. Let's say you want to buy a car in 2 years, you put that in fixed deposit, because that is the best return in that given time compared to other investments. Your kids need to go to university in 4 years, same thing, fixed deposit. But if you are one of those who are........ put 3 years, matured, put another 3 years, matured, put another 3 years. I am sorry, that is very poor management. That 9 years, could easily be suited with 5-6% returns/year.

Which stock did you buy btw? I can give it a look for you. And let you know if you should hold or sell. Generally if the earnings revenue is still going positive in terms of growth, you can hold it even when the stock prices drop, like you have mentioned. However, if the revenues change per year is actually like -30%, and the stock price drop 10%, you must get OUT asap. Because you have loss 10% but it's better than 30% which will come in the future. See how we don't wait for future prices? We can evaluate the prices and see how stocks should go, if it should go up, but it isn't, we buy more. If the stock should go down, but it's going up? We sell.

alanrchase · December 29, 2014

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<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Very interesting selection of stocks, but this is hopelessly overoptimistic:

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years.

Companies just don't stay around for that long. The average lifespan of an S&P 500 company is around 25 years. (I don't have equivalent figures for the Thai market.)

Look at the FT30 index. How many of the original constituents are still around? Associated Portland Cement, Bolsover Colliery, Callenders Cables & Construction, Fine Spinners and Doublers, Guest Keen & Nettlefolds and plenty of others. All fine businesses in their day, but where are they now?

Indeed, with the rise of ~~asset stripping~~ private equity, average company lifespan is only likely to get shorter.

If you really read my post, you wouldn't be saying that.

These are not simply stocks, they are more considered real estate funds. Investors pool their money together and managed by a certain bank with a specific investment policy. For BTSGIF, the funds is used to buy the rights to ticket revenues and so on at certain stations. BTS basically has to rent from the investors by giving the revenue from sales of tickets. Same with other funds I have suggested.

You are right, companies don't stay forever, but most corporations and groups do, they just change interest in companies.

However, I fail to realize how your post has ANY relevance to my specific post. Or it's just one of those to take down other people's suggestions on stocks. "Oh it's scary, stay away." I've heard enough, it's the same people who never invest in anything. Like I've stated in my post on the last section, been there done that, I yawn everytime someone is a cynic to the ideas.

So to rephrase, these funds will stay for a very long time, regardless if the company changes. I've had a few minor hotel funds which are similar to these, where the hotel has a problem paying the "rent", in the end, the management company sues the hotel for unpaid rent and court authorizes 7%+ interest rate on undue payment. After this, the property simply kicks out the old hotel business, and allows a new hotel to operate there.

So back to the OP, the funds suggested to you, is specific for your goals. I humbly believe it will be what you need. But it's your choice, you can believe the naysayers too, in 20 years BTS will disappear, we will be riding horses and eating grass. Central world will cease to exist, we will only have talad nads.

All investments are a bit of a gamble. Fixed term deposits possibly safer but low returns. How far are you prepared to go on a bit of a gamble? Bought a stock a month ago and it fell out of the FTSE 100. Dried my tears and will wait.

Haha, that my friend is gamble. There is a very clear line between who the gamblers are and who the investors are in this game. Any one who blindly goes out there and buys stock without any extensive research is a gambler. Us? We analyze each stock in and out, read all the financial statements, the technical charts, number by number, ratio by ratio. Take 1,000 companies, and only filter out maximum 20 that is capable of buying. Others we never buy, they are just disgusting trash. But hey? People are still buying those trash, but? We don't.

Yes, fixed deposits is the safest, but how safe? You do realize every term deposit you put in, you are roughly losing 0-1% per year? Inflation. It cushions inflation to the best of it's ability, but is unable to defeat it. If they could defeat it, governments would not issue bonds, it is a losing business. This I will not explain in detail here, but give you a rough idea. The government borrows money from you at this specific time with an interest rate to give you. But prints out money over the 20 years, and returns you with inflated money, that allows you to actually buy less in 20 years time. They win. Fixed deposits are only good for 1-5 years duration. Let's say you want to buy a car in 2 years, you put that in fixed deposit, because that is the best return in that given time compared to other investments. Your kids need to go to university in 4 years, same thing, fixed deposit. But if you are one of those who are........ put 3 years, matured, put another 3 years, matured, put another 3 years. I am sorry, that is very poor management. That 9 years, could easily be suited with 5-6% returns/year.

Which stock did you buy btw? I can give it a look for you. And let you know if you should hold or sell. Generally if the earnings revenue is still going positive in terms of growth, you can hold it even when the stock prices drop, like you have mentioned. However, if the revenues change per year is actually like -30%, and the stock price drop 10%, you must get OUT asap. Because you have loss 10% but it's better than 30% which will come in the future. See how we don't wait for future prices? We can evaluate the prices and see how stocks should go, if it should go up, but it isn't, we buy more. If the stock should go down, but it's going up? We sell.

I will take the bait. Buy sell buy sell? This year the "clever" people could have made about 50% if they got everything right without the "market" moving. How much do you wish to gamble?

JacChang · December 29, 2014

^^^^^ To alanrchase,

if it pleases you to know. for 2014, I've only bought 2 new stocks, SAMART and MINT.

My gains for SAMART without including the dividends already received is 165.66%. My purchased price is 14.64, current price at this time is 39. I purchased it this year around march or april.

But does it matter? Am I excited? No. Reason? I am not a gambler. It does not please me, the capital gains I have received. What pleases me is, all the stocks I own are my greatest assets that produce income for me. What I hold, are winners, companies who continue to profit from the economy, continuous expansion, etc. As long as those holds true, I only expand my assets, not like you have said, buy and sell. That is gambling for traders. I am not interested and do not support. Traders often claim victory, claim loss, cry, spread words of fear and failure. Investors start with 100,000, end up with 1 million, then 10 million, then 100 million. We are not here to buy and sell. We are here to accumulate. But through accumulation, we get more good companies, and ditch bad companies. It is in our mission, to own 100% of the world's economy if possible. How nice, to be owner of all the restaurants in this world, all the hotels, all the transportation, all the companies. That my friend, is the goal, not buy and sell. Those who buy and sell, continue to be gamblers, continue to disrupt the true meaning of investors, tarnish the image, provoke fear amongst all. At the end of the day, ask yourself, these people are "still poor". Who are the rich? Yes, those with stocks. Do they buy and sell all day? No. They own assets and will prevent anyone from stealing it from them. Just because my stock has gone up 200% doesn't mean I'll let it be easy for someone to take it off my hand.

Make your choice today. Live in fear and continue your life. Or join the rich. A simple 50,000 starts the journey for you to build your castle on.

CapeCobra · December 29, 2014

The concept of a private Stiftung does not exist in Thailand. In Germany, the main purpose is reducing or avoiding inheritance tax.That's not an issue in Thailand. JacChang gives you professional advice. He also warns you about taking advice from "professionals".

All bankers and analysts I have met knew exactly what would happen in the future. After taking their investment sheep to be slaughtered in the big crash, they knew exactly why it had to happen. Their suicide rate was much to low for my taste.

I would take a close look at the family's human resources and set them up with a business they can learn to handle. It could be something simple like buying townhouses with rental income from shops and tenants. The legal framework and a will would achieve your goals for a sustainable solution. Viel Glück dabei!

Edited December 29, 2014 by CapeCobra

alanrchase · December 29, 2014

^^^^^ To alanrchase,

if it pleases you to know. for 2014, I've only bought 2 new stocks, SAMART and MINT.

My gains for SAMART without including the dividends already received is 165.66%. My purchased price is 14.64, current price at this time is 39. I purchased it this year around march or april.

But does it matter? Am I excited? No. Reason? I am not a gambler. It does not please me, the capital gains I have received. What pleases me is, all the stocks I own are my greatest assets that produce income for me. What I hold, are winners, companies who continue to profit from the economy, continuous expansion, etc. As long as those holds true, I only expand my assets, not like you have said, buy and sell. That is gambling for traders. I am not interested and do not support. Traders often claim victory, claim loss, cry, spread words of fear and failure. Investors start with 100,000, end up with 1 million, then 10 million, then 100 million. We are not here to buy and sell. We are here to accumulate. But through accumulation, we get more good companies, and ditch bad companies. It is in our mission, to own 100% of the world's economy if possible. How nice, to be owner of all the restaurants in this world, all the hotels, all the transportation, all the companies. That my friend, is the goal, not buy and sell. Those who buy and sell, continue to be gamblers, continue to disrupt the true meaning of investors, tarnish the image, provoke fear amongst all. At the end of the day, ask yourself, these people are "still poor". Who are the rich? Yes, those with stocks. Do they buy and sell all day? No. They own assets and will prevent anyone from stealing it from them. Just because my stock has gone up 200% doesn't mean I'll let it be easy for someone to take it off my hand.

Make your choice today. Live in fear and continue your life. Or join the rich. A simple 50,000 starts the journey for you to build your castle on.

Great. Wish you well. My only point is it is a bit of a gamble. Get it right big return. I bought shares in a life insurance company at the beginning of this year, UK budget nocked them down 20%. Sold at a profit last month and got a 6% dividend. Just bought some oil shares, good move?

khunPer · December 29, 2014

moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

Wow! Thank you very much. Exactly the help I have been hoping for! This is a very detailed and interesting write-up. Thank you so much. Absolutely, heavy filters needed :-) Fully understood. But...If I buy all this in my name/account. ATM cards expire. How will they get renewed. Etc. Etc. This girl is by now educated enough to understand the seriousness of the situation, she has run several of my businesses (me directing and troubleshooting from background) and many, many Mio have gone though her hands. She never asked for a dime all these years and is not money-hungry at all. Still a simple girl. Also very well-known and successful. Fully trusted, never anything amiss or wrong. So just maybe, I could actually set up that entire proposal of yours in her name....If she screws up, she knows of the consequences.

Sorry, I have never invested in Thailand and am totally ignorant, but I am an active investor abroad. I understand correct? I open a brokerage account, which is held and managed by that firm, Dividends paid in a KK-account.

Option 2, I consider, but this means for her more work (without my support as til now!), buying her a bunch of studios, she is in the business and very good at renting, all established businesses and she could easily make double the money, BUT would be stuck in her location and job, which is really too much for her. Or she will end up with some bloody C like myself down the road. 30 yrs. of stress have done this to me...555...

I can easily add a bit to the initial sum and my first thought, still digesting, it might be better getting a bit less income, but long-term, safe, than starting a new venture and new stress. She could move back up country to her mother, they have a nice home etc. etc. GREAT HELP and food to think in the PET today.

I really like your proposal and will discuss with her asap. These brokerage firms, do they have offices? In Pattaya by chance? Or all online? Would you have a couple of reliable names by any chance. What kind of insurance you mention above? Do you know about tax consequences in such a case? Sorry, my head is not 100% these days. Wow, you got me thinking now. Already written to them for proposal along your lines. I can easily do 10 Mio and still leave them some in mutual fund as you mention. Hope I got enough time to get this going. Sounds much better than anything I have been looking at so far and she makes almost as much with possibility of a job that pleases her and is a bit more easy. Thank you so very much. May I bother you some more, after digesting this.....Please.... Off to more scans.... MS>

Moonseeker, I presume there will be a huge difference in heritance and a Trust. A Trust cannot be touched and follows some rules, whilst a legacy is more or less up the heirs about how being used – however you can make some clauses in a will; but will they be respected...?

I don’t think any idea about something – accounts and ATM - in your name will work, as that will be frozen immediately and until the estate has been sorted out.

How to invest your funds seems secondary, if not the fundamental arrangements – Trust or inheritance – have been cleared. However, investing in Thailand may well be as good as anywhere else; and on top have the benefit that the currency is the same as the dividend/outcome is going to be used in, without any change and deviation against foreign currency.

If I were in your situation, I would seek professional advice from a Thai lawyer about a Will, and what can be lawfully be respected in a Thai Will – or if a Trust can be set-up. Normally the advice is, that you make 2 Wills, one for the assets in Thailand, following Thai Law and rules, and another for assets in the homeland, following that set of rules. To my understanding, it may in case of all assets being invested in Thailand – or a Thai Trust – be advisable to transfer the funds to Thailand in advance, and then that part is dealt with in one Will only; if not sorted out in advance as a Trust. Furthermore you may have to look into tax, what will the taxation be in your home country compared to Thailand (no inheritance tax at the moment, and when the proposed comes that will be for over 50 million). If you have any heirs or relatives that may be in position to claim anything in your home country, make sure to sort that out also – a Will may be the instrument – as any legal claims can delay a process for years.

alanrchase · December 29, 2014

moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

Wow! Thank you very much. Exactly the help I have been hoping for! This is a very detailed and interesting write-up. Thank you so much. Absolutely, heavy filters needed :-) Fully understood. But...If I buy all this in my name/account. ATM cards expire. How will they get renewed. Etc. Etc. This girl is by now educated enough to understand the seriousness of the situation, she has run several of my businesses (me directing and troubleshooting from background) and many, many Mio have gone though her hands. She never asked for a dime all these years and is not money-hungry at all. Still a simple girl. Also very well-known and successful. Fully trusted, never anything amiss or wrong. So just maybe, I could actually set up that entire proposal of yours in her name....If she screws up, she knows of the consequences.
Sorry, I have never invested in Thailand and am totally ignorant, but I am an active investor abroad. I understand correct? I open a brokerage account, which is held and managed by that firm, Dividends paid in a KK-account.

Option 2, I consider, but this means for her more work (without my support as til now!), buying her a bunch of studios, she is in the business and very good at renting, all established businesses and she could easily make double the money, BUT would be stuck in her location and job, which is really too much for her. Or she will end up with some bloody C like myself down the road. 30 yrs. of stress have done this to me...555...

I can easily add a bit to the initial sum and my first thought, still digesting, it might be better getting a bit less income, but long-term, safe, than starting a new venture and new stress. She could move back up country to her mother, they have a nice home etc. etc. GREAT HELP and food to think in the PET today.

I really like your proposal and will discuss with her asap. These brokerage firms, do they have offices? In Pattaya by chance? Or all online? Would you have a couple of reliable names by any chance. What kind of insurance you mention above? Do you know about tax consequences in such a case? Sorry, my head is not 100% these days. Wow, you got me thinking now. Already written to them for proposal along your lines. I can easily do 10 Mio and still leave them some in mutual fund as you mention. Hope I got enough time to get this going. Sounds much better than anything I have been looking at so far and she makes almost as much with possibility of a job that pleases her and is a bit more easy. Thank you so very much. May I bother you some more, after digesting this.....Please.... Off to more scans.... MS>

Moonseeker, I presume there will be a huge difference in heritance and a Trust. A Trust cannot be touched and follows some rules, whilst a legacy is more or less up the heirs about how being used – however you can make some clauses in a will; but will they be respected...?
I don’t think any idea about something – accounts and ATM - in your name will work, as that will be frozen immediately and until the estate has been sorted out.

How to invest your funds seems secondary, if not the fundamental arrangements – Trust or inheritance – have been cleared. However, investing in Thailand may well be as good as anywhere else; and on top have the benefit that the currency is the same as the dividend/outcome is going to be used in, without any change and deviation against foreign currency.

If I were in your situation, I would seek professional advice from a Thai lawyer about a Will, and what can be lawfully be respected in a Thai Will – or if a Trust can be set-up. Normally the advice is, that you make 2 Wills, one for the assets in Thailand, following Thai Law and rules, and another for assets in the homeland, following that set of rules. To my understanding, it may in case of all assets being invested in Thailand – or a Thai Trust – be advisable to transfer the funds to Thailand in advance, and then that part is dealt with in one Will only; if not sorted out in advance as a Trust. Furthermore you may have to look into tax, what will the taxation be in your home country compared to Thailand (no inheritance tax at the moment, and when the proposed comes that will be for over 50 million). If you have any heirs or relatives that may be in position to claim anything in your home country, make sure to sort that out also – a Will may be the instrument – as any legal claims can delay a process for years.

Can I hire you as my financial advisor?

monkeycountry · December 29, 2014

moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

There are a number of problems with this approach.

1. Several of the property funds you mention are based on long term rental, not ownership. In other words, the OPs family is not the owner of anything as you suggest. They are simply renting and subletting.

2. Property funds and REITs go up and down just like all other shares, although they are usually less volatile. Yet some of the funds you mention have gone up and down at least 20% over the last 2 years or so.

3. Even with property funds things change over time. They are dependent on someone renting what they have to offer, so competing cinemas, shopping malls, hotels etc. might steal the tenants over time, reducing the income and thereby value of the property fund. While some property funds on the SET are doing great, others are not, and noone can predict what the status is in 10 or 20 years.

4. Property funds and REITs can be purchased both through brokers and banks. In either case alot of paperwork is needed to set it up, and as it involves information regarding the account owners knowledge regarding stocks, risk acceptance and economy, I doubt it can be inherited without doing it all over again.

My point is, investing directly in any stock, even property funds and REITs require some understanding of the stock market and the business you invest in.

As the OPs family likely has no knowledge in this field whatsoever, I suggested in a post above to simply buy mutual funds or similar directly from any local bank.

The advantages are:

1. Professionals from the bank will invest the OPs money on his behalf and maintain the investment as the years go by. The OP and his family therefore does not need to know anything about the individual stocks.

Sure, the bank can make bad decisions, but odds are they will do better than the OPs family.

2. Buying funds at the bank (or a broker), makes it alot easier to spread risk. As an example the OP can buy into funds that cover the whole world, or any part of it, not just Thailand. Or buy into a sector (banking, telecoms, infrastructure etc.) Instead of just 1 company.

3. Buying mutual funds require alot less paperwork than opening a trading account. And buying or selling funds can easily be done at the bank.

The downside is that the bank charges a fee for taking care of the funds. I think it is usually around 1-2% a year.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer using a trading account myself, but if I knew nothing about the stock market, I would let a bank or broker do it for me.

OmarZaidMD · December 29, 2014

Please don't take this the wrong way but you need to try to find some trust in some person (the mother or a younger friend/relative) or institutions in general (your farang homeland or Thai) or you will have to relax your desire to have an element of control.

I would start with having a very serious discussion with the mother about how she would like to be provided for and how she would ensure that her kids are provided for in the event of her own demise. Maybe you can get some trust from that.

If you cannot trust individuals then you will have to focus on institutional solutions in your homeland that would pay an annuity until death of the mother with some kind of reversionary bonus payable to the kids on the mother's death. Yes - expensive to set up as it will be an individually set up construct and rates are poor in the current low interest environment. In the UK there is Trust law (a professional trustee looks after payouts in line with your letter of wishes and it is possible that there is something equivalent in your home country - there is no equivalent in Thailand).

In the final analysis if I was in your situation with a young mother and her own kids I would simply make sure that she had her own house, some other long term locally-based revenue earning assets like rental farmland or other rental property and some cash in the bank. I would leave her to take care of her own kids. I would hope to feel that I had done all that was humanly possible and if she chose to blow it all within a year and she was in penury, despite having discussed those very risks and your dying wishes with her, then so be it. I do not believe that many Thai mothers would not do their best to ensure that their kids were provided for on her own death.

Best of luck in finding peace at such a time of crisis.

agreed ... best advice given so far ....

alanrchase · December 29, 2014

moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

There are a number of problems with this approach.
1. Several of the property funds you mention are based on long term rental, not ownership. In other words, the OPs family is not the owner of anything as you suggest. They are simply renting and subletting.

2. Property funds and REITs go up and down just like all other shares, although they are usually less volatile. Yet some of the funds you mention have gone up and down at least 20% over the last 2 years or so.

3. Even with property funds things change over time. They are dependent on someone renting what they have to offer, so competing cinemas, shopping malls, hotels etc. might steal the tenants over time, reducing the income and thereby value of the property fund. While some property funds on the SET are doing great, others are not, and noone can predict what the status is in 10 or 20 years.

4. Property funds and REITs can be purchased both through brokers and banks. In either case alot of paperwork is needed to set it up, and as it involves information regarding the account owners knowledge regarding stocks, risk acceptance and economy, I doubt it can be inherited without doing it all over again.

My point is, investing directly in any stock, even property funds and REITs require some understanding of the stock market and the business you invest in.

As the OPs family likely has no knowledge in this field whatsoever, I suggested in a post above to simply buy mutual funds or similar directly from any local bank.

The advantages are:

1. Professionals from the bank will invest the OPs money on his behalf and maintain the investment as the years go by. The OP and his family therefore does not need to know anything about the individual stocks.

Sure, the bank can make bad decisions, but odds are they will do better than the OPs family.

2. Buying funds at the bank (or a broker), makes it alot easier to spread risk. As an example the OP can buy into funds that cover the whole world, or any part of it, not just Thailand. Or buy into a sector (banking, telecoms, infrastructure etc.) Instead of just 1 company.

3. Buying mutual funds require alot less paperwork than opening a trading account. And buying or selling funds can easily be done at the bank.

The downside is that the bank charges a fee for taking care of the funds. I think it is usually around 1-2% a year.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer using a trading account myself, but if I knew nothing about the stock market, I would let a bank or broker do it for me.

I am generally in fixed interest. Been good over the last few years. Do I cover inflation? Only just. Could I gamble, Yes. Do I need to? No. Financial people have vested interstate.

alanrchase · December 29, 2014

moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

There are a number of problems with this approach.
1. Several of the property funds you mention are based on long term rental, not ownership. In other words, the OPs family is not the owner of anything as you suggest. They are simply renting and subletting.

2. Property funds and REITs go up and down just like all other shares, although they are usually less volatile. Yet some of the funds you mention have gone up and down at least 20% over the last 2 years or so.

3. Even with property funds things change over time. They are dependent on someone renting what they have to offer, so competing cinemas, shopping malls, hotels etc. might steal the tenants over time, reducing the income and thereby value of the property fund. While some property funds on the SET are doing great, others are not, and noone can predict what the status is in 10 or 20 years.

4. Property funds and REITs can be purchased both through brokers and banks. In either case alot of paperwork is needed to set it up, and as it involves information regarding the account owners knowledge regarding stocks, risk acceptance and economy, I doubt it can be inherited without doing it all over again.

My point is, investing directly in any stock, even property funds and REITs require some understanding of the stock market and the business you invest in.

As the OPs family likely has no knowledge in this field whatsoever, I suggested in a post above to simply buy mutual funds or similar directly from any local bank.

The advantages are:

1. Professionals from the bank will invest the OPs money on his behalf and maintain the investment as the years go by. The OP and his family therefore does not need to know anything about the individual stocks.

Sure, the bank can make bad decisions, but odds are they will do better than the OPs family.

2. Buying funds at the bank (or a broker), makes it alot easier to spread risk. As an example the OP can buy into funds that cover the whole world, or any part of it, not just Thailand. Or buy into a sector (banking, telecoms, infrastructure etc.) Instead of just 1 company.

3. Buying mutual funds require alot less paperwork than opening a trading account. And buying or selling funds can easily be done at the bank.

The downside is that the bank charges a fee for taking care of the funds. I think it is usually around 1-2% a year.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer using a trading account myself, but if I knew nothing about the stock market, I would let a bank or broker do it for me.

I am generally in fixed interest. Been good over the last few years. Do I cover inflation? Only just. Could I gamble, Yes. Do I need to? No. Financial people have vested interstate.

Awful phone. Changes what I type. Just read my post, interstate! Interest.

monkeycountry · December 29, 2014

moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

There are a number of problems with this approach.
1. Several of the property funds you mention are based on long term rental, not ownership. In other words, the OPs family is not the owner of anything as you suggest. They are simply renting and subletting.

2. Property funds and REITs go up and down just like all other shares, although they are usually less volatile. Yet some of the funds you mention have gone up and down at least 20% over the last 2 years or so.

3. Even with property funds things change over time. They are dependent on someone renting what they have to offer, so competing cinemas, shopping malls, hotels etc. might steal the tenants over time, reducing the income and thereby value of the property fund. While some property funds on the SET are doing great, others are not, and noone can predict what the status is in 10 or 20 years.

4. Property funds and REITs can be purchased both through brokers and banks. In either case alot of paperwork is needed to set it up, and as it involves information regarding the account owners knowledge regarding stocks, risk acceptance and economy, I doubt it can be inherited without doing it all over again.

My point is, investing directly in any stock, even property funds and REITs require some understanding of the stock market and the business you invest in.

As the OPs family likely has no knowledge in this field whatsoever, I suggested in a post above to simply buy mutual funds or similar directly from any local bank.

The advantages are:

1. Professionals from the bank will invest the OPs money on his behalf and maintain the investment as the years go by. The OP and his family therefore does not need to know anything about the individual stocks.

Sure, the bank can make bad decisions, but odds are they will do better than the OPs family.

2. Buying funds at the bank (or a broker), makes it alot easier to spread risk. As an example the OP can buy into funds that cover the whole world, or any part of it, not just Thailand. Or buy into a sector (banking, telecoms, infrastructure etc.) Instead of just 1 company.

3. Buying mutual funds require alot less paperwork than opening a trading account. And buying or selling funds can easily be done at the bank.

The downside is that the bank charges a fee for taking care of the funds. I think it is usually around 1-2% a year.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer using a trading account myself, but if I knew nothing about the stock market, I would let a bank or broker do it for me.

I am generally in fixed interest. Been good over the last few years. Do I cover inflation? Only just. Could I gamble, Yes. Do I need to? No. Financial people have vested interstate.
Awful phone. Changes what I type. Just read my post, interstate! Interest.

I understood what you meant :-)

Fixes interest is fine, and more or less risk free, but as you said yourself, it only covers inflation, so you are basically just storing your money, not making any. As I understand, the OP is looking to invest, in order to make money for the family, which obviously carries risk.

alanrchase · December 29, 2014

moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.
After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

There are a number of problems with this approach.
1. Several of the property funds you mention are based on long term rental, not ownership. In other words, the OPs family is not the owner of anything as you suggest. They are simply renting and subletting.

2. Property funds and REITs go up and down just like all other shares, although they are usually less volatile. Yet some of the funds you mention have gone up and down at least 20% over the last 2 years or so.

3. Even with property funds things change over time. They are dependent on someone renting what they have to offer, so competing cinemas, shopping malls, hotels etc. might steal the tenants over time, reducing the income and thereby value of the property fund. While some property funds on the SET are doing great, others are not, and noone can predict what the status is in 10 or 20 years.

4. Property funds and REITs can be purchased both through brokers and banks. In either case alot of paperwork is needed to set it up, and as it involves information regarding the account owners knowledge regarding stocks, risk acceptance and economy, I doubt it can be inherited without doing it all over again.

My point is, investing directly in any stock, even property funds and REITs require some understanding of the stock market and the business you invest in.

As the OPs family likely has no knowledge in this field whatsoever, I suggested in a post above to simply buy mutual funds or similar directly from any local bank.

The advantages are:

1. Professionals from the bank will invest the OPs money on his behalf and maintain the investment as the years go by. The OP and his family therefore does not need to know anything about the individual stocks.

Sure, the bank can make bad decisions, but odds are they will do better than the OPs family.

2. Buying funds at the bank (or a broker), makes it alot easier to spread risk. As an example the OP can buy into funds that cover the whole world, or any part of it, not just Thailand. Or buy into a sector (banking, telecoms, infrastructure etc.) Instead of just 1 company.

3. Buying mutual funds require alot less paperwork than opening a trading account. And buying or selling funds can easily be done at the bank.

The downside is that the bank charges a fee for taking care of the funds. I think it is usually around 1-2% a year.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer using a trading account myself, but if I knew nothing about the stock market, I would let a bank or broker do it for me.

I am generally in fixed interest. Been good over the last few years. Do I cover inflation? Only just. Could I gamble, Yes. Do I need to? No. Financial people have vested interstate.
Awful phone. Changes what I type. Just read my post, interstate! Interest.

I understood what you meant :-)

Fixes interest is fine, and more or less risk free, but as you said yourself, it only covers inflation, so you are basically just storing your money, not making any. As I understand, the OP is looking to invest, in order to make money for the family, which obviously carries risk.

u

Get the point. Would you advise another person on financial matters? Unfortunately may end in tears. Win lose best done by yourself without laying blame on third party. Happy New Year.

sometimewoodworker · December 29, 2014

Thank you all. Some good points. Some very dramatic health news, unexpected as you might realize, have led to this post. Yes, I have friends, family in Europe that are trusted, but I am looking for a long-term, recurring payment solution. Fully agreed on insurance remarks and Thai remarks. Not an easy situation. Yes, my brother can manage it, but what if he dies next year? This gets a bit complicated. I don't think the recipient would waste away the money. Trained and educated her well and her family seems reasonable. We will see what comes. I am confident TV will brig up some great ideas. A friend in fact has a very long-term, started 30 yrs. ago with a 1 time payment life/pension type insurance. Gets 3'500 Euros every month, is now in his mid seventies and has received way more than he paid in. But these days are over. Thanks to all. Can't write to everybody right now, my apologies, not my best days.....MS>

depending on the country you are in you may well be able to set up a trust fund in your home country that pay to the beneficiary in Thailand. I know that this can be done in the UK. The trustees in my case will be the acountancy firm that I have been using for the last 25 years. There will be an option for a maximum of 3% of the principal to be paid in any one year.

However you need to get independent financial advice. I have, you need to.

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