40 bodies have been recovered in the search for the missing AirAsia plane

[Commerce]

Did any of you knuckleheads realize they were flying over water....and as such, in an emergency situation you are instructed to put your lifejacket on while still onboard the aircraft and inflate it outside. With lifejackets found on people that implies that the aircraft crew knew and instructed the passengers to don the lifejackets in the moments before the crash, thats all. Although they are instructed to not normally inflate until outside the acft, who knows what people chose personally to do in regards to inflation? In panic situations people do not always follow rules. To imply or insinuate that because they had jackets on means they were alive after the crash is beyond any of you guys abilities. Stop with the accusations and assumptions, its childish. Be adults and let the professionals do their jobs.

Stop with the accusations and assumptions? You just promulgated your own, in a fleet second. Logical or not, you are expressing your own opinion. Childish are we all? See post #140 for your ref point. You know as much jackshit as anybosy else, despite your own THEORY.

[2fishin2]

Did any of you knuckleheads realize they were flying over water....and as such, in an emergency situation you are instructed to put your lifejacket on while still onboard the aircraft and inflate it outside. With lifejackets found on people that implies that the aircraft crew knew and instructed the passengers to don the lifejackets in the moments before the crash, thats all. Although they are instructed to not normally inflate until outside the acft, who knows what people chose personally to do in regards to inflation? In panic situations people do not always follow rules. To imply or insinuate that because they had jackets on means they were alive after the crash is beyond any of you guys abilities. Stop with the accusations and assumptions, its childish. Be adults and let the professionals do their jobs.

Stop with the accusations and assumptions? You just promulgated your own, in a fleet second. Logical or not, you are expressing your own opinion. Childish are we all? See post #140 for your ref point. You know as much jackshit as anybosy else, despite your own THEORY.

What I stated is what the emergency procedures are on an aircraft. Everybody gets the briefing to include you. Its not an assumption its fact. Im not implying or assuming anything. I am saying if a person had a lifejacket on, then IAW emergency procedures they were more than likely instructed at some point to don them. Everything I am saying is based in facts. Totally different from blaming rescuers, countries and governments and sharks of all stupid things, which is what has taken place since the beginning. I have no theory except to think that people pointing fingers at SAR operators, pilots, ship captains, and governments are idiots.

[chrisinth]

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Then with all respect, in the situation you have described where you disregarded the option of a lifejacket, you would have been one of the first to die.

As i said in my previous post, that was pure speculation from me, i don't know what happened, i have never been involved in a civilian airliner SAR operation before.

As for the point on the life jackets, that thought came from 23 years in the Royal Navy, 9 years of which where i was, among other things, employed as a SSE (sea survival equipment) maintenance supervisor.

As for normal SAR operations, i can't remember the number i have been involved with, or the number of bodies recovered.

One does stand out though to highlight political influence in these situations regarding territorial waters. Operating to the west of Hong Kong waters (Mirs Bay leading into Starling Inlet) we were in an area between our 12 mile limit and Chinese waters when we received a Mayday from a Chinese fishing junk (fishing for sponges) which had turned turtle due to cargo (catch) shift. We had the boats ready to go (2 x FPC's (fast pursuit craft)) which could have covered the distance between us in literally minutes).

Debate between the British and Chinese governments lasted for two and a half hours before we got the go ahead. We ended up recovering 8 dead bodies, no survivors. We literally watched these people drown to avert a potential diplomatic incident. Devastating for us, fatal for the fishing crew.

Just a small example of what can happen. If blame for this rests with the time frame of the operation, do not blame the SAR crews. If you must blame someone, direct it towards the governments.

Edit: For clarity

There's a simple word for it in Asia: FACE.

Despite delays, or not, or searching wrong areas, or not, or specualtions, or not; Many people have lost their lives, and it for those and their relatives that we should currently be paying our respects to - NOW.

The flight recorders will be salvaged easily in such waters, and it is only until the information from them will we receive any truth about this matter. That info is tomorrow's youtube and paper reports.

Until then, we are limited to speculation, even if political motives played a role. It will come out, for sure.

Thus, for now, let us please offer our sympathies to the lost and to their families. width=20 alt=wai.gif> width=20 alt=wai.gif> width=20 alt=wai.gif>

Agree fully.

[outboard]

http://news.yahoo.com/indonesia-says-one-body-airasia-plane-wearing-life-065203535.html

JAKARTA (Reuters) - A body recovered from the crashed AirAsia plane on Wednesday was wearing a life jacket, an official with Indonesia's search and rescue agency said.

I never said anyone was alive in a life jacket, but this would suggest a lot of people were alive in the descent which rules out explosion or explosive decompression right?

But if the plane is largely intact on the bottom how did so many bodies get out of the plane?

at least 10% of people ignore the fasten seatbelt signs

[islandhippy]

link to report a fisherman found debris on sunday http://i.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/64565351/airasia-qz8501-spotted-by-fisherman-who-hadnt-heard-the-news

[islandhippy]

also OP link says 6 bodies recovered and one wearing life vest, not 40...

[RigPig]

Did any of you knuckleheads realize they were flying over water....and as such, in an emergency situation you are instructed to put your lifejacket on while still onboard the aircraft and inflate it outside. With lifejackets found on people that implies that the aircraft crew knew and instructed the passengers to don the lifejackets in the moments before the crash, thats all. Although they are instructed to not normally inflate until outside the acft, who knows what people chose personally to do in regards to inflation? In panic situations people do not always follow rules. To imply or insinuate that because they had jackets on means they were alive after the crash is beyond any of you guys abilities. Stop with the accusations and assumptions, its childish. Be adults and let the professionals do their jobs.

Stop with the accusations and assumptions? You just promulgated your own, in a fleet second. Logical or not, you are expressing your own opinion. Childish are we all? See post #140 for your ref point. You know as much jackshit as anybosy else, despite your own THEORY.

What I stated is what the emergency procedures are on an aircraft. Everybody gets the briefing to include you. Its not an assumption its fact. Im not implying or assuming anything. I am saying if a person had a lifejacket on, then IAW emergency procedures they were more than likely instructed at some point to don them. Everything I am saying is based in facts. Totally different from blaming rescuers, countries and governments and sharks of all stupid things, which is what has taken place since the beginning. I have no theory except to think that people pointing fingers at SAR operators, pilots, ship captains, and governments are idiots.

No it is an assumtion, the one that they were told, whilst probably in their seats because of turbulance, to don their life jackets. This may not have happened because the chain of events which caused the accident were too rapid. The captain was too engaged at the time, he didn't get a message off what makes you think he had time to warn the passengers?

Also, I don't think anyone is "blaming" anyone, I am certainly not. These questions we are asking are normal and what pulic forums are about IMO.

Get a brown paper bag and take some deep breaths it will help.....

[MrWorldwide]

If I can throw more speculation into the mix, the expert quoted earlier in this thread claimed that bodies with their clothing removed - fully or partially - may indicate that they were ejected from the aircraft prior to contact with the water. A lot of this will depend on their analysis of the wreckage and given the time taken in the Air France disaster (admittedly in much deeper water and with a massive search radius), I wont be holding my breath.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447

While the Brazilian Navy removed the first major wreckage and two bodies from the sea within five days of the accident, the BEA's (Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses pour la Sécurité de l'Aviation Civile) initial investigation was hampered because the aircraft's black boxes were not recovered from the ocean floor until May 2011, nearly two years later

[Robby nz]

The BKK post has an update which states that only 7 bodies have been recovered including one of a stewardess in uniform.

Also says that parts of the plane have been identified by sonar but bad weather which is preventing divers and helicopters from working is moving debris up to 50km from the initial site and that the weather is forecast to get worse, speculates that bodies could end up on beaches.

[RigPig]

http://news.yahoo.com/indonesia-says-one-body-airasia-plane-wearing-life-065203535.html

JAKARTA (Reuters) - A body recovered from the crashed AirAsia plane on Wednesday was wearing a life jacket, an official with Indonesia's search and rescue agency said.

I never said anyone was alive in a life jacket, but this would suggest a lot of people were alive in the descent which rules out explosion or explosive decompression right?

But if the plane is largely intact on the bottom how did so many bodies get out of the plane?

at least 10% of people ignore the fasten seatbelt signs

And you have a link to this startling fact? The stewardess or steward usually walks around to ensure compliance in my experience.

You as we do not know they didn't undo them after impact and for me if they did then time was of the essence. How long can you survive in the ocean, in rough seas with no fresh water and under the blazing sun? 3 days?

[outboard]

http://news.yahoo.com/indonesia-says-one-body-airasia-plane-wearing-life-065203535.html

JAKARTA (Reuters) - A body recovered from the crashed AirAsia plane on Wednesday was wearing a life jacket, an official with Indonesia's search and rescue agency said.

I never said anyone was alive in a life jacket, but this would suggest a lot of people were alive in the descent which rules out explosion or explosive decompression right?

But if the plane is largely intact on the bottom how did so many bodies get out of the plane?

at least 10% of people ignore the fasten seatbelt signs

And you have a link to this startling fact? The stewardess or steward usually walks around to ensure compliance in my experience.

You as we do not know they didn't undo them after impact and for me if they did then time was of the essence. How long can you survive in the ocean, in rough seas with no fresh water and under the blazing sun? 3 days?

oh a link yeah ok try this link and your experience is sadly lacking due to your total lack of observation, how many times have those FLIGHT ATTENDANTS had to tell the same passenger to put their seat in an upright position prior to take off, how many people get up when the fasten seatbelt sign is on and go to the toilet, seriously you think in an emergency the flight attendants are going to be wondering around the cabin checking to see if that idiot that had his tray table down and seat reclined at take off has his seat belt on as for what I know, I know that 10% of people on aeroplanes do not put their seatbelts on in flight when the fasten seatbelt signs come on.

and how long can a person survive in these waters, assuming no significant trauma, and ability to keep head out of water they can survive for at least a week, at the end of that time they will be very weak and extremely thirsty, on a life raft of some kind closer to 2 weeks

Edited December 31, 2014 by outboard

[2fishin2]

http://news.yahoo.com/indonesia-says-one-body-airasia-plane-wearing-life-065203535.html

JAKARTA (Reuters) - A body recovered from the crashed AirAsia plane on Wednesday was wearing a life jacket, an official with Indonesia's search and rescue agency said.

I never said anyone was alive in a life jacket, but this would suggest a lot of people were alive in the descent which rules out explosion or explosive decompression right?

But if the plane is largely intact on the bottom how did so many bodies get out of the plane?

at least 10% of people ignore the fasten seatbelt signs

And you have a link to this startling fact? The stewardess or steward usually walks around to ensure compliance in my experience.

You as we do not know they didn't undo them after impact and for me if they did then time was of the essence. How long can you survive in the ocean, in rough seas with no fresh water and under the blazing sun? 3 days?

oh a link yeah ok try this link and your experience is sadly lacking due to your total lack of observation, how many times have those FLIGHT ATTENDANTS had to tell the same passenger to put their seat in an upright position prior to take off, how many people get up when the fasten seatbelt sign is on and go to the toilet, seriously you think in an emergency the flight attendants are going to be wondering around the cabin checking to see if that idiot that had his tray table down and seat reclined at take off has his seat belt on as for what I know, I know that 10% of people on aeroplanes do not put their seatbelts on in flight when the fasten seatbelt signs come on.

and how long can a person survive in these waters, assuming no significant trauma, and ability to keep head out of water they can survive for at least a week, at the end of that time they will be very weak and extremely thirsty, on a life raft of some kind closer to 2 weeks

Thank you for proving my point so eloquently

http://www.livescience.com/32320-how-long-can-a-person-survive-without-water.html

[RigPig]

http://news.yahoo.com/indonesia-says-one-body-airasia-plane-wearing-life-065203535.html

JAKARTA (Reuters) - A body recovered from the crashed AirAsia plane on Wednesday was wearing a life jacket, an official with Indonesia's search and rescue agency said.

I never said anyone was alive in a life jacket, but this would suggest a lot of people were alive in the descent which rules out explosion or explosive decompression right?

But if the plane is largely intact on the bottom how did so many bodies get out of the plane?

at least 10% of people ignore the fasten seatbelt signs

And you have a link to this startling fact? The stewardess or steward usually walks around to ensure compliance in my experience.

You as we do not know they didn't undo them after impact and for me if they did then time was of the essence. How long can you survive in the ocean, in rough seas with no fresh water and under the blazing sun? 3 days?

oh a link yeah ok try this link and your experience is sadly lacking due to your total lack of observation, how many times have those FLIGHT ATTENDANTS had to tell the same passenger to put their seat in an upright position prior to take off, how many people get up when the fasten seatbelt sign is on and go to the toilet, seriously you think in an emergency the flight attendants are going to be wondering around the cabin checking to see if that idiot that had his tray table down and seat reclined at take off has his seat belt on as for what I know, I know that 10% of people on aeroplanes do not put their seatbelts on in flight when the fasten seatbelt signs come on.

and how long can a person survive in these waters, assuming no significant trauma, and ability to keep head out of water they can survive for at least a week, at the end of that time they will be very weak and extremely thirsty, on a life raft of some kind closer to 2 weeks

SORRY but your link only took me back to your original post and the Yahoo link had nothing.

Once again you are making assumptions, yes people get up and go to the toilet, but not 10%, usually I have only seen them tell someone twice (once when they walk down the plane and the second time when they come back and see if you have complied) and then stand and wait for them to comply. In my experience (and probably for legal and liability reasons) they are quite strict about it. And I have a few flying hours up my sleeve I assure you.

Try this link for your 2 weeks without water scenario :

http://www.livescience.com/32320-how-long-can-a-person-survive-without-water.html

QUOTE:

"After 3 days, you need water or you'll perish."

[kannot]

oh a link yeah ok try this link and your experience is sadly lacking due to your total lack of observation, how many times have those FLIGHT ATTENDANTS had to tell the same passenger to put their seat in an upright position prior to take off, how many people get up when the fasten seatbelt sign is on and go to the toilet, seriously you think in an emergency the flight attendants are going to be wondering around the cabin checking to see if that idiot that had his tray table down and seat reclined at take off has his seat belt on as for what I know, I know that 10% of people on aeroplanes do not put their seatbelts on in flight when the fasten seatbelt signs come on.

http://news.yahoo.com/indonesia-says-one-body-airasia-plane-wearing-life-065203535.html

JAKARTA (Reuters) - A body recovered from the crashed AirAsia plane on Wednesday was wearing a life jacket, an official with Indonesia's search and rescue agency said.

I never said anyone was alive in a life jacket, but this would suggest a lot of people were alive in the descent which rules out explosion or explosive decompression right?

But if the plane is largely intact on the bottom how did so many bodies get out of the plane?

at least 10% of people ignore the fasten seatbelt signs

And you have a link to this startling fact? The stewardess or steward usually walks around to ensure compliance in my experience.

You as we do not know they didn't undo them after impact and for me if they did then time was of the essence. How long can you survive in the ocean, in rough seas with no fresh water and under the blazing sun? 3 days?

and how long can a person survive in these waters, assuming no significant trauma, and ability to keep head out of water they can survive for at least a week, at the end of that time they will be very weak and extremely thirsty, on a life raft of some kind closer to 2 weeks

SORRY but your link only took me back to your original post and the Yahoo link had nothing.

Once again you are making assumptions, yes people get up and go to the toilet, but not 10%, usually I have only seen them tell someone twice (once when they walk down the plane and the second time when they come back and see if you have complied) and then stand and wait for them to comply. In my experience (and probably for legal and liability reasons) they are quite strict about it. And I have a few flying hours up my sleeve I assure you.

Try this link for your 2 weeks without water scenario :

http://www.livescience.com/32320-how-long-can-a-person-survive-without-water.html

QUOTE:

"After 3 days, you need water or you'll perish."

No everyone is different see here

http://www.virtualhospice.ca/en_US/Main+Site+Navigation/Home/Support/Support/Asked+and+Answered/Nutrition/How+long+can+someone+live+without+food+or+water_.aspx

[MrWorldwide]

Another quote from the Bangkok Post article - a real slap in the face to those who tried to drag Islam into the original thread with comments like 'As much as I dislike Muslim people' - it was obvious to me from the passenger manifest that many were ethnic Chinese. Give yourselves an uppercut.

Nearly all the passengers were Indonesian. The country is predominantly Muslim, but most of those aboard were Christians of Chinese descent

[HeijoshinCool]

So has anyone read where they will be doing autopsies to see if anyone drowned while waiting for Indonesia to allow those offering to help, help?

Do you have the chronology of the crash-related issues and Indonesian responses to offers of assistance from abroad?

Makes a change from Thai bashing I suppose.

.

Not handy, but I have a good memory.

Australia's offer of assistance was turned down in the first hours after the disappearance.

[Lite Beer]

AirAsia Indonesia Flight QZ8501 Update (as of 31 December 2014 8:00 PM (GMT+7)

SURABAYA, 31st DECEMBER 2014 – AirAsia Indonesia wishes to update that The National Search and Rescue Agency (BASARNAS) Republic of Indonesia and other relevant authorities continue to search and recover the passengers of QZ 8501 in the Karimata Strait area.

Earlier today, Tony Fernandes, Group CEO of AirAsia and AirAsia management visited the military base in Pangkalan Bun to meet with key stakeholders of the SAR operations. Fernandes met with Deputy Governor of Central Kalimantan, Achmad Diran; Deputy of Potential Search And Rescue (SAR), Marsekal Muda TNI Sunarbowo Sandi; Joint Operation Chief Territory II, Marsekal Muda TNI Abdul Muis; Joint Operation Chief Territory I, Marsekal Muda TNI Agus Dwi Putranto; Central Kalimantan Police Chief, Brigadier General Hermanu and Deputy of Operation Search And Rescue (SAR), Marsekal Pertama TNI Supriyadi.

Fernandas said: “I continue to be humbled and touched by the incredible efforts and professionalism put forth by BASARNAS, Army, Navy, Air Force and Police of Indonesia. The search and rescue operations were unfortunately hampered by bad weather today but I am hopeful they will be able to resume the search tomorrow.”

To date, BASARNAS has confirmed to have recovered a total of seven remains, which were transported to the military base in Pangkalan Bun, Borneo. Two of the seven remains were transported to Bayangkara Hospital in Surabaya for identification by Disaster Victim Identification of Police Department Republic of Indonesia (DVI POLRI).

AirAsia’s main focus remains on the wellbeing of the families affected by this tragedy.

Further information will be released as soon as it becomes available. An emergency call centre has been established and available for families seeking information.

Family members of QZ8501, please contact:
Malaysia: +60 3 21795959
Indonesia: +62 2129270811
Singapore: +65 63077688
Korea: 007 98142069940

Our thoughts and prayers remain with the families and friends of our passengers and colleagues on board QZ8501.

Note to Editors: We ask that members of the news media do not call the AirAsia Emergency Call Centre, as this line is reserved for family members seeking information about those who may have been on board.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/airasia/airasia-indonesia-flight-qz8501-update-as-of-31-december-2014-800-pm-gmt7/10152676339933742

[harrry]

So has anyone read where they will be doing autopsies to see if anyone drowned while waiting for Indonesia to allow those offering to help, help?

Do you have the chronology of the crash-related issues and Indonesian responses to offers of assistance from abroad?

Makes a change from Thai bashing I suppose.

.

Not handy, but I have a good memory.

Australia's offer of assistance was turned down in the first hours after the disappearance.

What would the US say to Pussia or North Korea if they offered to join a lost aircraft search in Puget Sound?

[harrry]

So has anyone read where they will be doing autopsies to see if anyone drowned while waiting for Indonesia to allow those offering to help, help?

Do you have the chronology of the crash-related issues and Indonesian responses to offers of assistance from abroad?

Makes a change from Thai bashing I suppose.

.

Not handy, but I have a good memory.

Australia's offer of assistance was turned down in the first hours after the disappearance.

What would the US say if they had a lost aircraft in Puget Sound and Russia and North Korea asked to search for it?

[F430murci]

No victim from Crashed AirAsia plane was wearing a life jacket - official

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/no-victim-from-crashed-airasia-plane-was-wearing-life-jacket-official/ar-BBho6YE?ocid=iehp

[MrWorldwide]

No victim from Crashed AirAsia plane was wearing a life jacket - official

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/no-victim-from-crashed-airasia-plane-was-wearing-life-jacket-official/ar-BBho6YE?ocid=iehp

Thanks very much for confirming that.

[HeijoshinCool]

So has anyone read where they will be doing autopsies to see if anyone drowned while waiting for Indonesia to allow those offering to help, help?

Do you have the chronology of the crash-related issues and Indonesian responses to offers of assistance from abroad?

Makes a change from Thai bashing I suppose.

.

Not handy, but I have a good memory.

Australia's offer of assistance was turned down in the first hours after the disappearance.

What would the US say if they had a lost aircraft in Puget Sound and Russia and North Korea asked to search for it?

.

I, too, often confuse both Russia and North Korea, with Australia.

Now, what was your question?

[outboard]

SORRY but your link only took me back to your original post and the Yahoo link had nothing.

Once again you are making assumptions, yes people get up and go to the toilet, but not 10%, usually I have only seen them tell someone twice (once when they walk down the plane and the second time when they come back and see if you have complied) and then stand and wait for them to comply. In my experience (and probably for legal and liability reasons) they are quite strict about it. And I have a few flying hours up my sleeve I assure you.

Try this link for your 2 weeks without water scenario :

http://www.livescience.com/32320-how-long-can-a-person-survive-without-water.html

QUOTE:

"After 3 days, you need water or you'll perish."

ok so mate here is a little something for you , the reason the link take you back to my post is because I am an authority! anyone that has taken a flight has seen 10% of people not wearing seatbelts when the fasten seatbelt sign comes on, and as i have taken several flights and observed this on all of them the data I have collected now becomes information.

as for Your fantastic link to how long someone can survive I will give you little background information on me , my nickname comes from my years spent working in the fishing industry as part of my qualification I was required to maintain a current WHS First aid certificate equivalent to the level that a first response firefighter would have (20 years as a fireman prior to fishing) many people I knew lost their lives on boats but I did have 2 mates that survived a boat sinking spending 2 weeks floating around the ocean in an industrial icebox, but I will be sure to tell them that you said they didn't survive because some website you looked up said they died after 3 days

[Scott]

Let's stop bickering. I don't know what % do not fasten their seat belts. Unless someone has supporting data, I think we can drop this discussion. It really is off-topic in this thread.

Some airline staff are more conscientious than others. Some passengers are more cooperative than others.

[outboard]

So has anyone read where they will be doing autopsies to see if anyone drowned while waiting for Indonesia to allow those offering to help, help?

Do you have the chronology of the crash-related issues and Indonesian responses to offers of assistance from abroad?

Makes a change from Thai bashing I suppose.

.

Not handy, but I have a good memory.

Australia's offer of assistance was turned down in the first hours after the disappearance.

sorry but from the news reports I saw the offer was not turned down, however, it must be remembered that Tony Buggysmuggler is a politician and the likely scenario was one of his advisers told him of the breaking news, he immediately tells the gathered news reporters that Australia will do everything to help, so he tells someone to tell someone in his office to shoot off an email to the office of the Indonesian President which is received by one of his staff who puts it in the "countries offering to help" basket which is not being looked at because the information of what has actually happened is still filtering up the chain of command. when the "countries offering help" basket is looked at the generic response goes out " thanks for the offer please contact our head of military" as SAR is a military operation. so working down the chain of command messages get sent back and forth until you get down to someone that actually knows what is going on and someone that can actually arrange for assets to be sent who decide what assets are needed and where they can land/dock/be used not to mention any immigration clearances needed for the people manning those assets or the feeding or accommodation requirements.

TL;DR

heads of state offer assistance as a political response coordination of that assistance happens a long way down the chain of command

[RigPig]

SORRY but your link only took me back to your original post and the Yahoo link had nothing.

Once again you are making assumptions, yes people get up and go to the toilet, but not 10%, usually I have only seen them tell someone twice (once when they walk down the plane and the second time when they come back and see if you have complied) and then stand and wait for them to comply. In my experience (and probably for legal and liability reasons) they are quite strict about it. And I have a few flying hours up my sleeve I assure you.

Try this link for your 2 weeks without water scenario :

http://www.livescience.com/32320-how-long-can-a-person-survive-without-water.html

QUOTE:

"After 3 days, you need water or you'll perish."

ok so mate here is a little something for you , the reason the link take you back to my post is because I am an authority! anyone that has taken a flight has seen 10% of people not wearing seatbelts when the fasten seatbelt sign comes on, and as i have taken several flights and observed this on all of them the data I have collected now becomes information.

as for Your fantastic link to how long someone can survive I will give you little background information on me , my nickname comes from my years spent working in the fishing industry as part of my qualification I was required to maintain a current WHS First aid certificate equivalent to the level that a first response firefighter would have (20 years as a fireman prior to fishing) many people I knew lost their lives on boats but I did have 2 mates that survived a boat sinking spending 2 weeks floating around the ocean in an industrial icebox, but I will be sure to tell them that you said they didn't survive because some website you looked up said they died after 3 days

Well your "authority" is ........... as a person who has taken over 200 flights in the last 12 years (personally) I think you should open your eyes a bit more when you get on a plane.!! 10% is your ASSUMPTION, and that makes you an expert......

As for the experience with your mates floating around for 2 weeks, that's a one off but I guess that every situation is the same huh?

I have only said the response time (because of politics, probably) was IMO pathetic. I would not like to be floating around in those seas for 3 days in the sun exposed with no water waiting for idiots to decide if they were going to come looking. As an expert myself (a person who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything there is to know about nothing) I simply raised the question that more could have been done quicker to save anyone that MIGHT have survived.

If I was in that situation I would be relying on the authorities to save me and from what I have read their initial response was mediocre to say the least, it was almost as if the assumption was made that everyone had perished already! I personally wouldn't care if I was saved by Indonesian, Singaporean, Australian or whatever nationality ! 3 days to pinpoint a plane crash 10Km from the last known position is mind boggling.

But it seems you would be happy to float around for 2 weeks, I am not.

Questions need to be asked and things need to be corrected or an attempt made to at least improve things if possible, saving face should not even come into the equation If one person could have been saved by a better response and wasn't then there is something wrong with the system and t needs to be addressed.

I hope you have a Happy New Year 162 people will not when they should have.......

[MrWorldwide]

I always put my seatbelt on and leave it on even after the light has gone off - had a couple of interesting moments when we've hit turbulence and I loathe the rollercoaster sensation - but I'll also be wearing a 3mm 'steamer' style wetsuit beneath my clothes. Flippers might be pushing the point, so I'll keep those in a bag in the overhead compartment (along with bottles of drinking water and MRE ration packs) and hope I can get to it in time.

OK - I'm being facetious - but it would be one thing to get out of the aircraft alive, even wearing a vest which probably hasnt been checked for leaks in a very long time, and something else to survive hypothermia and thirst while you wonder what kind of marine life may have been attracted by all that splashing. Not trying to rain on anyone's parade - just picturing what it would be like, even in fine weather conditions during the day. The guy who put his jet down safely in the Hudson River had one big advantage over the captain of QZ8501 - the flotilla of boats which rushed to the aid of those onboard as his plane slowly sank into the frigid river. The first of these vessels was alongside the plane 4 minutes after it hit the water and many more followed - arguably some of the luckiest people alive.

[draftvader]

Just read this

http://www.smh.com.au/world/airasia-flights-behaviour-on-the-edge-of-logic-20150101-12gk9a.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nc&eid=socialn:twi-13omn1677-edtrl-other:nnn-17/02/2014-edtrs_socialshare-all-nnn-nnn-vars-o&sa=D&usg=ALhdy28zsr6qiq

Mainly of interest is this speculation.

Leaked figures show the plane climbed at a virtually unprecedented rate of 6000 to 9000 feet per minute, and "you can't do that at altitude in an Airbus 320 with pilot action".

The most that could normally be expected would be 1000 to 1500 feet on a sustained basis, with up to 3000 feet in a burst, he said.

The plane then fell at an even more incredible rate: 11,000 feet per minute with bursts of up to 24,000 feet per minute.

[canuckamuck]

For the plane to descend like that the engines needed to be applying thrust, that's more than 450 Kmh. I can't imagine the cabin is basically intact, like the claims we have heard earlier.

[Gulfsailor]

For the plane to descend like that the engines needed to be applying thrust, that's more than 450 Kmh. I can't imagine the cabin is basically intact, like the claims we have heard earlier.

And nearly straight down as bodies and debris were found almost directly under last know position in the air. I think the whole discussion of people could have been saved if SAR were quicker is unnecessary. Going down at 200 - 400 km/h, no one stands a chance.

It is weird though that the plane would go straight down and not have some forward gliding motion. Even in a spin a plane going 800 kmh forward will make some forward distance while going down. The only scenario I can think of is that the tale came off, forcing the rest of the plane going up rapidly as the engines would still have thrust, before falling back straight down.