Palestinians to press war-crimes case against Israel

[Somtamnication]

Good, about time! What a disgrace yesterday at the so called America always vetoes "security council". What a joke!

There was no veto. The resolution was defeated.

You might want to note this from the OP:

The U.S. has not said how it will react, but it provides hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to the Palestinians.

I never said the merkins vetoed. But they love that ace in the hole whenever it is convenient for Israeli lobby back in DC.

[Mosha]

Firing rockets from schools and hospitals isn't a war crime?

[Seastallion]

This is exactly like the school yard bully. "I'm stealing your lunch, but if you tell the teacher, I'm going to bash you". And the bully's sister's boyfriend is standing by and saying, "Yeah, if you tell, I'm not going to help you with your homework."

America may as well just say to Palestine, "Look, just accept Israel and all it's settlements, accept all future settlements, harden up and take their war crimes, shut up, and stop complaining, it will get you nowhere while we remain the global power."

[ABCer]

Sadly I must agree with ehs818.

There will never be peace between Arabs and Jews in Palestine.

And it is not due to 'missed opportunities' by Arabs. They are not stupid and can see a deal when there is one.

The main reason is their goals always was, is and will be - no Jews in Palestine! And the Jews will never agree with this!

Those Arabs who didn't mind living with the Jews - are happy part of Israel. The others never will!

The Israelis IMHO are making some very stupid mistakes:

1) believe in any possibility of a Peace Deal with Arabs including 'Peace for Land' concept;

2) having won three major wars are begging for Peace and recognition giving away for free advantages paid by blood;

3) have too much regard for International opinion, UN and other such things which have outlived their usefulness and have completely changed their nature and goals from their inception;

4) prepared to believe in any word, promise, paper signed and sealed by any Arab country, leader, group or Gov't;

Sometimes I wonder how the Jews managed to get their acclaimed status of being clever ?

As to the ICC question - isn't it a common case of a thief crying "stop the thief" and pointing a finger elsewhere?

"Sometimes I wonder how the Jews managed to get their acclaimed status of being clever ?"

Try 5 millions Jews surviving against 10s of millions well armed Arab armies for the last 60+ years, try blooming a mosquito infected swamps, what than Palestine use to be at the beginning of the last century to a what Israel is now, a leading country in all and every filed know to men...

if this is not clever enough for you, I don't know what is than....

Yes, I've seen all this. Yes, I take my hat off before Israelis for their achievements in every field known to man. Yes, I also acknowledge their military success.

Pity you didn't recognise my irony.

Despite being so clever they fail to see things obvious: 1)... 2)... 3)... 4)... - there is a certain irony in this, don't you see?

Just like there is a good dose of irony that those murderous sons of guns are going to charge Israelis in ICC for 'war crimes' !

What do you expect in a World where every terrorist is a 'freedom fighter' or a poor oppressed religious minority ?

Edited January 1, 2015 by ABCer

[Sheryl]

The countries involved are not the only ones behaving childishly. A number of posts have been edited or hidden for use of vulgarity.

No matter what your views are, participating in this thread will include reading views you strongly disagree with.

Handle that in a civil manner or refrain from posting.

[Steely Dan]

After failing to get the security council to approve his unilateral deadline for peace negotiations Abbas is now doubling down as nobody has more dirty washing to air with the ICC, who are part of the Palestinian unity (sic) government.

What this does underline is Abbas has zero intention of pursuing a negotiated settlement and the U.S. Should stop funding the Palestinian authority.

[kingalfred]

Palestine joining International Criminal Court and perhaps can get some movement on the massacre of 2000 in Gaza strip last year. Of course the report mentions the USA "condemning"Palestine. USA and Israel not members of the ICC for obvious self protecting interests

How many of the 2000 Hamas terrorists were killed in they dung tunnels to Israel or coming out of them inside Israel?

not a fraction of the number who were killed by State of Israel terrorists who fired at buildings knowing full well there were civilians inside , and then tell the worlds media they "gave warning" . yeah sometimes they did... Seconds! War Crimes!

[kingalfred]

It is at least heartening to know there are a huge number of Jews around the world who want to expose the current Israeli government for what it is. There is even a facebook page. I wont list the names of prominent Jewish writers, academics, historians artists etc who see what is happening under Netanhanyu. https://facebook.com/Zionocracy

[dexterm]

After failing to get the security council to approve his unilateral deadline for peace negotiations Abbas is now doubling down as nobody has more dirty washing to air with the ICC, who are part of the Palestinian unity (sic) government.

What this does underline is Abbas has zero intention of pursuing a negotiated settlement and the U.S. Should stop funding the Palestinian authority.

After 67 years of negotiating, 95 UN resolutions ignored by Israel (a record number for any member state), and having achieved zilch progress while Israel steals more land, I expect the Palestinians are getting a little frustrated.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_Palestine

You should be congratulating Abbas for choosing the peaceful path of protest.

If Israel wants to air Palestinians' dirty washing then it should join the ICC itself and prosecute. Perhaps it doesn't because it knows its own laundry basket is full to overflowing.

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory posts removed.

[zydeco]

Once again, I don't usually comment much on these Arab-Israeli disputes. But for the sake of God, let us not have yet another Arab state. They're all a mess--bloody, chaotic, despotic, given to acts of genocide against minorities in their midst. I'm not so much a defender of Israel. But I do know that if I was given the choice to live in Israel or any Arab country, I'd take Israel in a heartbeat. In fact, I might enlarge that to include almost all muslim countries, although Malaysia, based on my many trips there, might be the sole muslim country I would choose in preference to Israel.

Edited January 1, 2015 by zydeco

[Jingthing]

In the long run, there kind of has to be a Palestinian state because in the long run I don't see how Israel can sustain the current status quo forever. So no future Palestinian state, then probably no Israel in the long run. But having a Palestinian state certainly doesn't guarantee Israel's future existence either.

[OMGImInPattaya]

That should be easy.

[OMGImInPattaya]

What's with the Hebrew ads popping up in this thread...I thought the forum language was English.

[Jingthing]

What's with the Hebrew ads popping up in this thread...I thought the forum language was English.

Google innit.

[JDGRUEN]

Firing rockets from schools and hospitals isn't a war crime?

All just propaganda and photoshop. If you really believe this, you should be encouraging Israel to join the ICC itself, present its evidence and prosecute for war crimes.

What has Israel got to lose?

The Hamas Rockets fired into Israel over the years is just propaganda and photoshop... You really believe that ? Wow ... What are you smoking ?

[mania]

In Washington, State Department spokesman Jeff Rathke said the U.S. was "deeply troubled" by the Palestinians' "escalatory step."

He said it was "entirely counterproductive and does nothing to further the aspirations of the Palestinian people for a sovereign and independent state."

Considering the source that is some high powered "pot calling the kettle black"

[Scott]

Some off-topic posts removed. This topic is about Palestinian's efforts to press war crimes. As such, the focus in on what Israel has done wrong, not on what Palestine has done wrong. Comparisons must take this into account, otherwise posts are nothing more than a deflection and trolling.

Please address the topic.

[Alwyn]

If "Palestine" gain entrance to the ICC and push charges of war-crimes then they are in a precarious position as the last time I hear, firing rockets at civilians was not strictly legitimate. Forget everything though and think about this

1. Israel is the only democracy in the middle east

2. Israel is the ONLY country in the middle east that accepts freedom of religious learning.

3. There are Arabs living peacefully in Israel. There are Arabs in the Israeli Defence Forces. There are Arabs in the Knesset (Government)

4. If Hamas stopped firing rockets at Israel and laid down their weapons, what would happen? What would happen if Israel laid down it's weapons?

[siampolee]

Jingthing post # 44.

In the long run, there kind of has to be a Palestinian state because in the long run I don't see how Israel can sustain the current status quo forever. So no future Palestinian state, then probably no Israel in the long run. But having a Palestinian state certainly doesn't guarantee Israel's future existence either.

A fine comment which is certainly spot on apart from that closing comment.

''Having a Palestinian state certainly doesn't guarantee Israel's future existence either.''

In my view the fact that the two states could and indeed can exist side by side and also depend on each other would in the long run consolidate Israels positing as it would Palestine too.

Look at the region and for all the differences all the assorted states manages to survive.

Perhaps if the region was left to its own devices instead of being to high degree the punchbag for a small number of other nations, peace and harmony may well survive and grow to maturity.

Positive thoughts, positive actions lead to a positive peace.

Edited January 1, 2015 by siampolee

[gchurch259]

There never has been a Palestine in the history of the World that I can find ! After WWII they, non Arab politicians, made some big mistakes in dividing up the spoils of war in the Middle East.

Hard to feel sorry for them, although I do, not because of the occupied land but because they are too sorry to pull themselves up by their on boots straps and develop what they still have. As for Israel occupation of those lands, The Muslims have always used the same tactics to expand their lands and beliefs, all the way into Southern Europe until they were pushed back out.

It is at once the richest and poorest religion. There are more of them on welfare all over the World than any other culture.

Excuse me while I get off the Soap Box, Happy New Year !!

[Thaiready]

Good, about time! What a disgrace yesterday at the so called America always vetoes "security council". What a joke!

It would have been by more than one vote if it wasn't for the hypotactic France, who saw nothing wrong in colonizing Algeria and Morocco and other Arab/Muslims countries in north Africa back in the days, but now that they are drowning in a sea of radical Islam in their midst, they calling to a Palestinians to Have a state, hoping perhaps to look good in the eye of the millions of Muslims/Arabs living in France now.... or perhaps, that some of them will leave France and go back to the 'new country'.....

Damn well said.......bravo

[dexterm]

There never has been a Palestine in the history of the World that I can find !

There are more of them on welfare all over the World than any other culture.

There never has been a Palestine in the history of the World that I can find !

You haven't looked hard enough. Try ..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

"The region has been controlled by numerous peoples, including Ancient Egyptians, Canaanites, Israelites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Ancient Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, the Sunni Arab Caliphates, the Shia Fatimid Caliphate, Crusaders, Ayyubids, Mameluks, Mongols, Ottomans, the British and modern Israelis and Palestinians."

The Romans called the province Syria Palaestina, and the Greek historian Herodotus in the 5th century BC called it Palaistine

The so called Jewish King Herod the Great himself was the son of a Palestinian Arab.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipater_the_Idumaean

There are more of them on welfare all over the World than any other culture.

Is that a fact, fantasy or a prejudice...link please!

Edited January 1, 2015 by dexterm

[Alwyn]

If "Palestine" gain entrance to the ICC and push charges of war-crimes then they are in a precarious position as the last time I hear, firing rockets at civilians was not strictly legitimate. Forget everything though and think about this

1. Israel is the only democracy in the middle east

2. Israel is the ONLY country in the middle east that accepts freedom of religious learning.

3. There are Arabs living peacefully in Israel. There are Arabs in the Israeli Defence Forces. There are Arabs in the Knesset (Government)

4. If Hamas stopped firing rockets at Israel and laid down their weapons, what would happen? What would happen if Israel laid down it's weapons?

If Israel wants to press charges in the ICC against Hamas rocket firing...simple. Israel itself should also join the ICC It's pretty obvious why they don't. Too many skeletons in their own closet.

#1 a complete myth. On a daily basis Israel suppresses the civil rights of the Palestinian refugees it is occupying in the West Bank and de facto in Gaza. And with its own Israeli Arab citizens it maintains an apartheid system. Try for starters

http://adalah.org/eng/Israeli-Discriminatory-Law-Database

Notwithstanding all that, simply ask any of your so called democratic Israeli friends if it is possible for an Israeli Arab citizen to marry whomever in the world he/she falls in love with and bring them back to live with them in Israel? Answer ...no.

Whereas a New York Jew married or single can claim instant Israeli citizenship and go on to marry whomever they like. Some democracy!

#2. There are Jewish communities in several Arab countries and 35,000 in Iran.

How will Arab Israeli citizens fare if Netanyahu gets his way after winning the next election and forces 20% of its own citizens (Muslim and Christian) to swear allegiance to the Jewish supremacist state of Israel, erasing the Arabic language as an official medium and making them more 2nd class citizens through an enhanced Jewish only bureaucracy? Some democracy!

#3 Wonderful wonderful. Wish there more more. Not for the want of trying by the Israeli right wing by getting Israeli Arab MPs disenfranchised if they speak out against the Israeli state.

Perhaps there will one day be a majority of Israeli Arab MPs in the Knesset if Israel annexes the West Bank and extends equal Israeli citizenship to 4 million Palestinians they are currently occupying.

#4 Peace will eventually ..no ..inevitably break out.

In the meantime, Israel could address its current security concerns in a peace agreement with all the neceessary checks and balances. As peace is established over the years they could be racheted back.

Sorry but you're talking nonsense. The website you provide the link to is totally left handed. The laws that discriminate against Palestinians also discriminate against all foreigners in Israel.

You state #1 is a myth because of Israel's (in your view) has civil rights violations in the West Bank? How do you work that one out? You say an Israeli arab cannot marry and bring their spouse back to Israel? Bullsh*t, if an Israeli Arab holds an Israeli passport they can do this. They can marry who they want (In a civil registration, not a rabbinical ceremony obviously) and they can take them to Israel as long as they're not from a country that is hostile to Israel. Tell me if a woman from Saudi can marry a Jew from anywhere? Can they take them to Saudi?

There are a total of 26000 Jews living in Arab countries in total. No rights no nothing.

#3 from you, again unsubstantiated stuff that you probably read on David Icke's website

#4 Israel are trying to get peace, tell me how Hamas does it? By firing rockets into urban areas? Israel gave back the Sinai as part of the 1978 Camp David accord. The two countries are at peace although this is proving challenging thanks to changes in Egypt's dictatorship recently. Israelis are welcome in Jordan, Morocco and Egypt, these countries, although once warring with Israel (except Morocco) have made peace, why can't Gaza? Because Hamas don't want it, they want for Israel to cease to exist The answer to point number 4 is simple - although I notice you didn't even attempt an answer - If Israel laid down their weapons Hamas would immediately attack, along with Syria (you know the country at civil war, the country who's wounded get treated in Israel's hospital)

[Ulysses G.]

There never has been a Palestine in the history of the World that I can find !

I am pretty sure that you mean an independent Arab country with that name. There was a geographical area with a bunch of different types of people - many of them nomadic - living in the area before the British took control.

[ggold]

Looks like its panic stations in Israel, now that their war criminals will be named and shamed before the whole world. More writing on the wall for the end of what John Kerry described as "the unsustainable status quo".

What else could Abbas do?

“They attack us and our land every day, to whom are we to complain? The security council let us down – where are we to go?” Abbas told a gathering of Palestinian leaders in remarks broadcast on official television.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/31/palestinian-president-international-criminal-court

What do the hypocritical US and Israeli governments prefer: the Abbas way appealing peacefully to the referee or the Hamas way? They should be praising the PA leader for choosing the non combatant path not criticizing him.

Netanyahu said that the Palestinians had more to fear from the ICC than Israel. Why do they object to the move then...hmmm strange?

Netanyahu added that Israel will act "to protect soldiers of the IDF – the most moral army in the world."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.634753

..well that's handy, because now they will be able to prove that in court won't they?.

It may take years for the war criminals to be held responsible. But it will be interesting to see Israeli politicians and individual IDF found guilty afraid to visit signatory countries where they may be arrested.

Just on a technical note...

The ICC can prosecute individuals accused of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes committed since 1 July 2002, when the Rome statute came into force.

The court can pursue an individual only if crimes were committed on the territory of a state party – one that has signed and ratified the Rome statute – or by a citizen of such a state. Israel has signed but not ratified the treaty.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/31/palestinian-president-international-criminal-court

Perhaps Israel and the US should ratify the ICC treaty themselves if they wish to prosecute Hamas. What have they got to lose?

The Oslo accord stipulated that the Palestinians would not make unilateral moves to join international organisations. So they have now killed that accord. Also Just because the Palestinians have applied to join the ICC there is no guarantee the ICC will accept them. There is doubt if the ICC could initiate proceedings against Israel. Even the Palestinians own UN envoy has said the PA could never take Israel to the ICC because they the Palestinians were guilty of crimes against humanity.

[Lissos]

The strategy carries risks, including the possibility the Palestinians themselves could be accused of war crimes over rocket attacks by the extremist group Hamas on Israeli population centers and other violence against Jewish targets................The court would be able to prosecute only crimes committed from here on in, not past offenses, said Robbie Sabel, an international law expert at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. Sabel agreed the Palestinians themselves could be at risk of prosecution............ "On the other side of the coin — and this is why the Palestinians have hesitated up until now — is that any Palestinian who commits a war crime anywhere in the world and has not been tried by a Palestinian court could also be subject to the jurisdiction of the court," he said. "So it works both ways."

Exactly. If they chose to go this route - the price to be paid is that the jihad as they know and love it right now, is going to come to a screeching halt, and if they believe that choosing this path is going to be a one way luxury of putting Israel under the spotlight while assuming that Islamist militants can continue with the dirty methods they've been using up to now, then their bubble is about to burst for them very dramatically. I also expect that no longer will the kind of open incitement to violence against Jews by spokesmen that does the rounds in local media, be tolerated anymore either. As Sabel said, "...it works both ways". By all means put Israel under the spotlight, but know well that no hiding places will exist for anyone once that lamp is switched on. Arabs have quite a record now of making awfull choices but still continuing with the same course when it is only making things clearly worse for themselves. Either they truly believe that players on their team have done nothing wrong in the past nor will do in future once the counter is reset, or they're just gambling that the lamp will only light up players on the Israeli team. It indeed works both ways, so they'd better get used to it.

[Alwyn]

There never has been a Palestine in the history of the World that I can find !

There are more of them on welfare all over the World than any other culture.

There never has been a Palestine in the history of the World that I can find !

You haven't looked hard enough. Try ..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

"The region has been controlled by numerous peoples, including Ancient Egyptians, Canaanites, Israelites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Ancient Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, the Sunni Arab Caliphates, the Shia Fatimid Caliphate, Crusaders, Ayyubids, Mameluks, Mongols, Ottomans, the British and modern Israelis and Palestinians."

The Romans called the province Syria Palaestina, and the Greek historian Herodotus in the 5th century BC called it Palaistine

The so called Jewish King Herod the Great himself was the son of a Palestinian Arab.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipater_the_Idumaean

There are more of them on welfare all over the World than any other culture.

Is that a fact, fantasy or a prejudice...link please!

Your history is really piss poor isn't it? Like when you mentioned earlier about Israel becoming a member of ICC so they can press charges against Gaza when they've been a signatory member (unratified) since 2000... Your questions about Arab Israelis getting married? All you know is what you glean from wikipedia

1. King Herod's father was not a Palestinian. He was, he was an Edomite Arab. Which for your edification was the stretch of land from the Dead Sea to the Gulf of Aqaba.

2. The Romans called the Jews Felistinia - which were (in Roman eyes) uneducated, slave philistines who were wanderers, it was a derogatory term. Some historians say the Philistines (Felestinians) came from the foothills of Judea, but this is mute as they were translating from a Hebrew anagram for "shepalah" which they saw as similar the philistia. Some say they're from an area near Greece. The name 'philistines, or felastinia has roots in the Greek Language. They called the country Felistinia as an insult to the Jews. But, the area called Felistia was a stretch of land by the sea with the five cities. Gaza to be precise. The land Gaza sits on today is the original land named Felisitia buy the Romans.

I could go on with the history lesson but as you seem to enjoy cutting and pasting crap from wikipedia I'll let you continue

Anyway all of this history is <deleted> really, how far do you want to go back to claim rightful ownership? Look in the Bible and look for 'Palestine', good luck. Palestinians have never ever had a government, they were governed by remote countries as you rightly say but they had no central government or anything, ever. Gaza is the first time ever and boy are they making a hash of that. I've lived many many years in Israel and I have strong links (my second wife was Israeli) through my work. I can tell you all Israelis want is to be able to live in peace, do you think parents enjoy their sons and daughters having to do their time in the IDF? Do you think they enjoy burying their children? Whatever your personal opinions are, are your personal opinions and that's everybody's right to have and voice that opinion. But ultimately you're missing the point. Peace with Egypt is why the signed the camp David agreement in 1978, and it's worked.

Regards. Alwyn

[dexterm]

Looks like its panic stations in Israel, now that their war criminals will be named and shamed before the whole world. More writing on the wall for the end of what John Kerry described as "the unsustainable status quo".

What else could Abbas do?

“They attack us and our land every day, to whom are we to complain? The security council let us down – where are we to go?” Abbas told a gathering of Palestinian leaders in remarks broadcast on official television.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/31/palestinian-president-international-criminal-court

What do the hypocritical US and Israeli governments prefer: the Abbas way appealing peacefully to the referee or the Hamas way? They should be praising the PA leader for choosing the non combatant path not criticizing him.

Netanyahu said that the Palestinians had more to fear from the ICC than Israel. Why do they object to the move then...hmmm strange?

Netanyahu added that Israel will act "to protect soldiers of the IDF – the most moral army in the world."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.634753

..well that's handy, because now they will be able to prove that in court won't they?.

It may take years for the war criminals to be held responsible. But it will be interesting to see Israeli politicians and individual IDF found guilty afraid to visit signatory countries where they may be arrested.

Just on a technical note...

The ICC can prosecute individuals accused of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes committed since 1 July 2002, when the Rome statute came into force.

The court can pursue an individual only if crimes were committed on the territory of a state party – one that has signed and ratified the Rome statute – or by a citizen of such a state. Israel has signed but not ratified the treaty.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/31/palestinian-president-international-criminal-court

Perhaps Israel and the US should ratify the ICC treaty themselves if they wish to prosecute Hamas. What have they got to lose?

The Oslo accord stipulated that the Palestinians would not make unilateral moves to join international organisations. So they have now killed that accord. Also Just because the Palestinians have applied to join the ICC there is no guarantee the ICC will accept them. There is doubt if the ICC could initiate proceedings against Israel. Even the Palestinians own UN envoy has said the PA could never take Israel to the ICC because they the Palestinians were guilty of crimes against humanity.

The 22 year old Accords have been dead in the water for a long time. Israel contravened the spirit of a peace agreement by building more colonies on stolen land, continually stalling, and moving the goalposts...having gained PLO recognition of the state of Israel in 1993 they now demand recognition of the Jewish state of Israel, erasing the language of 20% of its own citizens and condemning them further into apartheid.

Time for a fresh approach by-passing the dishonest US brokers, who carry too much Israeli baggage via the Zionist lobby in Washington.

Palestinians are facing up to the truth and reconciliation process by applying to sign and ratify their ICC membership. Israel still has too much to hide and lack the courage to ratify the treaty.

Edited January 2, 2015 by dexterm

[dexterm]

There never has been a Palestine in the history of the World that I can find !

There are more of them on welfare all over the World than any other culture.

There never has been a Palestine in the history of the World that I can find !

You haven't looked hard enough. Try ..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

"The region has been controlled by numerous peoples, including Ancient Egyptians, Canaanites, Israelites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Ancient Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, the Sunni Arab Caliphates, the Shia Fatimid Caliphate, Crusaders, Ayyubids, Mameluks, Mongols, Ottomans, the British and modern Israelis and Palestinians."

The Romans called the province Syria Palaestina, and the Greek historian Herodotus in the 5th century BC called it Palaistine

The so called Jewish King Herod the Great himself was the son of a Palestinian Arab.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipater_the_Idumaean

There are more of them on welfare all over the World than any other culture.

Is that a fact, fantasy or a prejudice...link please!

Your history is really piss poor isn't it? Like when you mentioned earlier about Israel becoming a member of ICC so they can press charges against Gaza when they've been a signatory member (unratified) since 2000... Your questions about Arab Israelis getting married? All you know is what you glean from wikipedia

1. King Herod's father was not a Palestinian. He was, he was an Edomite Arab. Which for your edification was the stretch of land from the Dead Sea to the Gulf of Aqaba.

2. The Romans called the Jews Felistinia - which were (in Roman eyes) uneducated, slave philistines who were wanderers, it was a derogatory term. Some historians say the Philistines (Felestinians) came from the foothills of Judea, but this is mute as they were translating from a Hebrew anagram for "shepalah" which they saw as similar the philistia. Some say they're from an area near Greece. The name 'philistines, or felastinia has roots in the Greek Language. They called the country Felistinia as an insult to the Jews. But, the area called Felistia was a stretch of land by the sea with the five cities. Gaza to be precise. The land Gaza sits on today is the original land named Felisitia buy the Romans.

I could go on with the history lesson but as you seem to enjoy cutting and pasting crap from wikipedia I'll let you continue

Anyway all of this history is <deleted> really, how far do you want to go back to claim rightful ownership? Look in the Bible and look for 'Palestine', good luck. Palestinians have never ever had a government, they were governed by remote countries as you rightly say but they had no central government or anything, ever. Gaza is the first time ever and boy are they making a hash of that. I've lived many many years in Israel and I have strong links (my second wife was Israeli) through my work. I can tell you all Israelis want is to be able to live in peace, do you think parents enjoy their sons and daughters having to do their time in the IDF? Do you think they enjoy burying their children? Whatever your personal opinions are, are your personal opinions and that's everybody's right to have and voice that opinion. But ultimately you're missing the point. Peace with Egypt is why the signed the camp David agreement in 1978, and it's worked.

Regards. Alwyn

I think it is you who is missing the point. Israel gave back 100% of occupied land to Egypt in return for peace.

All Israel needs to do is the same with the Palestinians. Israel gets to keep land stolen in 1948. The Palestinians are willing to compromise on the 67 borders

Will get back to you later on your other points. Got to travel today...and no need for profanities please.

Edited January 2, 2015 by dexterm