Army 'needs martial law to shield itself'

[Alwyn]

Looks to me like the army are preparing for their own coup amongst themselves. Are they deciding to keep Martial law on the go or is the PM? Fearless leader voted himself into power with tanks.. Now he's on the back of the tiger will her hang on or get eaten? (sorry for mixed metaphors)

[Alwyn]

The army has M16's field guns,tanks, modern fighter aircraft and they need a shield to protect themselves ?

I would think that is a perfect reason why they need martial law. Would you prefer them to use their armoury instead?

But as John higher up mentioned, apparently whenever there is a mob a government is suppose to cave in. Apparently this govt according to him.intervened because of the attacks on the protesters. And terrible they were too.

I presume in another time, this govt would be just as accomodating of a mob protesting their overthrow. I mean, its not as though the army has any experience of shooting its own people.

Agreed, and that's the point, the government had already caved in and then stayed on a caretaker government (as Thai law dictates) until an election can be held. They tried for an election which was violently halted by the same thugs that were driving around Phuket on motorbikes and closed kids schools for some reason! The coup was not so much a coup just a simple grabbing of power as there was no government!

[sjaak327]

I had been under the impression that martial law was imposed to protect the country from upheaval,or civil strife. While this itself is debatable, this article now tells us that martial law is needed to somehow " protect the army".. From what, the article does not tell us, though it does tell us there may be rivalaries wthin the military which could lead to conflict. Unwittingly, the article thereby provides the ultimate argument for democratic elections as the only sustainable means of reglme change in the world of politics. As the article implies, military coups and martial law only breed more military coups and martial law - and that a recipe for disaster.

Exactly. They seem to be afraid of rivalries within the military or maybe more correctly inside the government. Are they afraid of a counter coup from someone within their ranks, on the irony.

[whybother]

Agreed, and that's the point, the government had already caved in and then stayed on a caretaker government (as Thai law dictates) until an election can be held. They tried for an election which was violently halted by the same thugs that were driving around Phuket on motorbikes and closed kids schools for some reason! The coup was not so much a coup just a simple grabbing of power as there was no government!

Which law dictates that a government HAS to stay on after they have dissolved parliament?

[Alwyn]

Agreed, and that's the point, the government had already caved in and then stayed on a caretaker government (as Thai law dictates) until an election can be held. They tried for an election which was violently halted by the same thugs that were driving around Phuket on motorbikes and closed kids schools for some reason! The coup was not so much a coup just a simple grabbing of power as there was no government!

Which law dictates that a government HAS to stay on after they have dissolved parliament?

I'm sure you're more than capable of doing your own homework?

[Muirton]

I've watched every one of Dear Leader's Friday spiels. There's nothing in the world like them. Last night was his shortest yet, 30 minutes. and the major topic, bike lanes. But consider his dilemma, he had no photo-ops to show us and can't bring up the subject of the tanking economy. What next week? 20 minutes of garlic chicken recipes?

The Thaitanic sails on.

Can't bring up the subject of the tanking economy? What!!! He could talk for hours on the economy.

The SET couldn't be stronger under the Junta? Look at the graph here. Look at Thailand inflation rate here. That is going in the right direction as well. Look at the GDP growth rate here. Thats looking pretty good as well heay. Consumer confidence has gone through the roof here. Couple that with consumer spending here that is looking very health. Business confidence is plodding along nicely here.

In fact take a look at all the graphs and they are similar to any countries that was healing after being crippled by a rotten entity.

Unlike the majority on here that are retired I actually work and have a Thai crew. Pre coup we were working for an Aussie mine in Laos because the work was drying up in Thailand due to the instability. We are currently in Sudan after a small break back home over xmas because of the rippling effect of this pre coup instability, but mark my words since the 22nd of May and the slow recovery after the UDD and PTP backed violence has stopped the work is mounting up back home. My crew are itching to come home to work now. My crew vote as well. My crew love stability ergo they respect what the Junta are achieving. My crew reflect what the majority are echoing.

And all the economic indicators back up what my Thai crew reflect as well. It is this narrative the Junta cannot control that hold them in a good light.

Cheers from my crew!

I'll follow the NY Times Op-Ed piece from January 1 instead of you, if I may since this is a free country. [Just in case you're densely fascist, that's a joke.]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/02/opinion/thailand-and-the-coup-trap.html?ref=opinion

[whybother]

Agreed, and that's the point, the government had already caved in and then stayed on a caretaker government (as Thai law dictates) until an election can be held. They tried for an election which was violently halted by the same thugs that were driving around Phuket on motorbikes and closed kids schools for some reason! The coup was not so much a coup just a simple grabbing of power as there was no government!

Which law dictates that a government HAS to stay on after they have dissolved parliament?

I'm sure you're more than capable of doing your own homework?

I'll take that as you making things up then.

[sjaak327]

The army has M16's field guns,tanks, modern fighter aircraft and they need a shield to protect themselves ?

Quite correct and a pertinent point.

They use martial law as their weapon because unlike the UDD and PTP backed they refuse to use their war weapons on the people of Thailand.

Unfortunately they didn't refuse to use their guns on the people of Thailand in 2010, 2004, 1992, 1976 and 1973.

[Alwyn]

Agreed, and that's the point, the government had already caved in and then stayed on a caretaker government (as Thai law dictates) until an election can be held. They tried for an election which was violently halted by the same thugs that were driving around Phuket on motorbikes and closed kids schools for some reason! The coup was not so much a coup just a simple grabbing of power as there was no government!

Which law dictates that a government HAS to stay on after they have dissolved parliament?

I'm sure you're more than capable of doing your own homework?

I'll take that as you making things up then.

Take it how you like it mush, I really don't care

[Muirton]

The army has M16's field guns,tanks, modern fighter aircraft and they need a shield to protect themselves ?

Quite correct and a pertinent point.

They use martial law as their weapon because unlike the UDD and PTP backed they refuse to use their war weapons on the people of Thailand.

Where were you in 2010? Or 1992?

And the Thammasat University Massacre of 1976 when the Army enjoyed torturing the students before killing them.

[Muirton]

Come on guys ... for us Farangs it is fun to sit back and watch.... Thailand is just a Big funfair for all of us .... Much better to live the easy life here than back in our home countries... So , really who amongst us cares a damn who runs the country.... Leave it to the Thais... If and when we don't like it we can go home.... If there were no girlie bars , massage parlours and cheap beer and food... None of us would be here... Lie back , have fun and enjoy... one day we will all be dead men... just let us hope not too soon.... Pass the Chang..!

If there were no girlie bars , massage parlours and cheap beer and food... None of us would be here.

Not sure where you live, or who your friends are, but I live in Chiang Mai, and every falang I know here is married and taking care of their family, don't go to girlie bars or massage parlors for sex. I really hate to break this to you, but not every farang is a beer guzzling sex-pat. Perhaps you should take a good look around you and see the real world sometime. And perhaps change your class of friends.

Conundrum: How can one change one's class of friends when one has no class oneself?

[brucec64]

The army has M16's field guns,tanks, modern fighter aircraft and they need a shield to protect themselves ?

Quite correct and a pertinent point.

They use martial law as their weapon because unlike the UDD and PTP backed they refuse to use their war weapons on the people of Thailand.

Where were you in 2010? Or 1992?

And the Thammasat University Massacre of 1976 when the Army enjoyed torturing the students before killing them.

So, to rephrase djjamie's post, except for 2010, 1992, the Thammasat University Massacre of 1976 when the Army enjoyed torturing the students before killing them, and the 1950s era Sarit military dictatorship's extensive use of summary executions, they (the army) use martial law as their weapon because unlike the UDD and PTP backed they refuse to use their war weapons on the people of Thailand.

[sjaak327]

Agreed, and that's the point, the government had already caved in and then stayed on a caretaker government (as Thai law dictates) until an election can be held. They tried for an election which was violently halted by the same thugs that were driving around Phuket on motorbikes and closed kids schools for some reason! The coup was not so much a coup just a simple grabbing of power as there was no government!

Which law dictates that a government HAS to stay on after they have dissolved parliament?

Chapter IX, section 181. Constitution of Thailand 2007.

Also apart from the above, there is no provision in that constitution that allow them to stand down for a non elected body such as Suthep and his buddies.

[icare999]

well i my this wife and many thais we know are really happy for Army to be in control and dont worry a bit if they stay in control for decades. Taksin is pure evil as are his scan and hanger on. Sorry rural thais are simply to easily brainwashed o most of them are. Thailand is not ready for democracy and if it takes the army to stop Taksin so be it. Those posting here are simply wrong and naive and if Taksin and his red shirt thugs got their way would truly understand meaning of an evil dictator. Remember chase under Taksin. Red shirt villages where people were scared shitless to not obey his masters wishes and all the rest. I live n a red shirt village and i can tell you since the coup people here are free. Sure their were a few totally dedicated red shirt thugs who have crept back under rocks to continue their drug dealing ways. Total scum and cockroaches all of them.

[lildragon]

I love how djjamie, mikemac, Daffyduck et all have all completely ignored the information and point made in the article (power plays and cronyism in the army) to get in some good ol' Shin bashing,

This lot in charge now are doing the same thing as the people they were 'saving' Thailand from. But don't let that interrupt you from you/your wives prejudices.

[smutcakes]

well i my this wife and many thais we know are really happy for Army to be in control and dont worry a bit if they stay in control for decades. Taksin is pure evil as are his scan and hanger on. Sorry rural thais are simply to easily brainwashed o most of them are. Thailand is not ready for democracy and if it takes the army to stop Taksin so be it. Those posting here are simply wrong and naive and if Taksin and his red shirt thugs got their way would truly understand meaning of an evil dictator. Remember chase under Taksin. Red shirt villages where people were scared shitless to not obey his masters wishes and all the rest. I live n a red shirt village and i can tell you since the coup people here are free. Sure their were a few totally dedicated red shirt thugs who have crept back under rocks to continue their drug dealing ways. Total scum and cockroaches all of them.

Sounds like you, your wife and your rural Thais in the village have been brainwashed, as you say "rural thais are simply to easily brainwashed"

[tonbridgebrit]

The Nation is an anti-Thaksin newspaper, and it comes up with this article ??

Maybe it's time to close down the Nation newspaper. With Martial Law, it's against the rules to say stuff that is negative. The Nation has basically de-stabilised the situation by releasing this article. Forget about Thai Visa being closed down due to the Thaksinites, the Nation has done more than enough to be closed down !!!

[jpeg]

This thread is so full of BS and monstrous double-standards, it's not true.

I followed events very closely and what happened to cause the coup was pretty straightforward:

Pheu-Thai refused point blank to allow any political reform before a new election. They were 100% prepared to use every means in their power to prevent it. This slid into open terrorist attacks against innocent protestors of the WORST kind : grenades being firing randomly into crowds.

As things were getting more desperate, Prayuth got them all together (a deliberate act) and gave them a chance to back away from the killing. They refused and so he took control. They refused because they had no power to agree : that decision was taken from a luxury hotel room in Dubai long before the meeting.

The rest is all just a consequence of that decision. Once Prayuth had made the decision, he had no choice but to follow the current path, and to commit to it 100%.

I have no reason to prefer one side over another. I form my opinions by following the news over time and things become pretty clear if your glasses are not tinted red or yellow.

Nobody wants this Junta, but all you people whining about it are blaming the wrong people. Of course, there's nothing new there. I've met very few Thais who will accept the consequence of their actions : they always blame somebody else.

Unfortunately for this narrative you've left out the key player; yes, Suthep and his barmy army.

For six months they blocked the traffic, caused immense disruption to ordinary people going about their business, were guilty of just as much violence as the PTP people and ultimately obstructed and caused the abandonment of free elections. On the basis of Suthep's subsequent comments it is almost certain that the whole point of the exercise was to bring about the coup; ie he was simply acting as an agent provocateur for the military.

Your version of events is rather like the Second World War without Hitler.

Whoa! On this you are completely wrong. I was living off Sathorn in 2010 when Taksin's rent a rabble were hurling grenades and using rocket launchers to bring down Sala Daeng Sky Train. They also turned Central World to toast and made great use of gasoline tankers. In no way can that be compared with Suthep's popgun

[jpeg]

The Nation is an anti-Thaksin newspaper, and it comes up with this article ??

Maybe it's time to close down the Nation newspaper. With Martial Law, it's against the rules to say stuff that is negative. The Nation has basically de-stabilised the situation by releasing this article. Forget about Thai Visa being closed down due to the Thaksinites, the Nation has done more than enough to be closed down !!!

You'll be advocating book burning next

[whybother]

Agreed, and that's the point, the government had already caved in and then stayed on a caretaker government (as Thai law dictates) until an election can be held. They tried for an election which was violently halted by the same thugs that were driving around Phuket on motorbikes and closed kids schools for some reason! The coup was not so much a coup just a simple grabbing of power as there was no government!

Which law dictates that a government HAS to stay on after they have dissolved parliament?

Chapter IX, section 181. Constitution of Thailand 2007.

Also apart from the above, there is no provision in that constitution that allow them to stand down for a non elected body such as Suthep and his buddies.

Section 182 (2) allows them to stand down.

[jpeg]

It also appeared that the red shirt "elite" thought they were invincible with their "mandate" from the people to trample over due process which eventually led to the coup.

You miss my point. Taksin could have been voted out. No chance other than one faction within another deposing a military dictatorship. Aka, Junta .

Yes he or his proxy could have been voted out but if you rcall some of his earlier comments about ruling for 12 or 20 years he was, IMO, preparing to be president for life.

He or his proxy could have 'prepared' all they liked, but the fact remains he could still have been voted out under a democratic system, like it or not. No such thing happens with a self imposed military dictatorship. They can stay on for eaons, even after a country is broken beyond repair. One has only to cast one's eyes at North Korea for evidence of this fact.

[philw]

The army has M16's field guns,tanks, modern fighter aircraft and they need a shield to protect themselves ?

Quite correct and a pertinent point.

They use martial law as their weapon because unlike the UDD and PTP backed they refuse to use their war weapons on the people of Thailand.

Unfortunately they didn't refuse to use their guns on the people of Thailand in 2010, 2004, 1992, 1976 and 1973.

Rather too devastating SJ, and unlikely to get a rebuttal from a Gov't affiliated consistently coupe supporting jockey of some sort.

Have we got any Boney M ??

[Alwyn]

Agreed, and that's the point, the government had already caved in and then stayed on a caretaker government (as Thai law dictates) until an election can be held. They tried for an election which was violently halted by the same thugs that were driving around Phuket on motorbikes and closed kids schools for some reason! The coup was not so much a coup just a simple grabbing of power as there was no government!

Which law dictates that a government HAS to stay on after they have dissolved parliament?

Chapter IX, section 181. Constitution of Thailand 2007.

Also apart from the above, there is no provision in that constitution that allow them to stand down for a non elected body such as Suthep and his buddies.

Section 182 (2) allows them to stand down.

But not for a non-elected body to take over. They stand down (and indeed, stood down) until a newly elected government takes over. Or there's a coup

Edited January 3, 2015 by Alwyn

[tonbridgebrit]

The Nation is an anti-Thaksin newspaper, and it comes up with this article ??

Maybe it's time to close down the Nation newspaper. With Martial Law, it's against the rules to say stuff that is negative. The Nation has basically de-stabilised the situation by releasing this article. Forget about Thai Visa being closed down due to the Thaksinites, the Nation has done more than enough to be closed down !!!

You'll be advocating book burning next

Would closing down the Nation be a good thing ? If the rules says that you can remove dissent, then, you can remove dissent. Being allowed to remove dissent, but if it is not being removed, well, that produces just another problem, surely ??

[philw]

This thread is so full of BS and monstrous double-standards, it's not true.

I followed events very closely and what happened to cause the coup was pretty straightforward:

Pheu-Thai refused point blank to allow any political reform before a new election. They were 100% prepared to use every means in their power to prevent it. This slid into open terrorist attacks against innocent protestors of the WORST kind : grenades being firing randomly into crowds.

As things were getting more desperate, Prayuth got them all together (a deliberate act) and gave them a chance to back away from the killing. They refused and so he took control. They refused because they had no power to agree : that decision was taken from a luxury hotel room in Dubai long before the meeting.

The rest is all just a consequence of that decision. Once Prayuth had made the decision, he had no choice but to follow the current path, and to commit to it 100%.

I have no reason to prefer one side over another. I form my opinions by following the news over time and things become pretty clear if your glasses are not tinted red or yellow.

Nobody wants this Junta, but all you people whining about it are blaming the wrong people. Of course, there's nothing new there. I've met very few Thais who will accept the consequence of their actions : they always blame somebody else.

Unfortunately for this narrative you've left out the key player; yes, Suthep and his barmy army.

For six months they blocked the traffic, caused immense disruption to ordinary people going about their business, were guilty of just as much violence as the PTP people and ultimately obstructed and caused the abandonment of free elections. On the basis of Suthep's subsequent comments it is almost certain that the whole point of the exercise was to bring about the coup; ie he was simply acting as an agent provocateur for the military.

Your version of events is rather like the Second World War without Hitler.

Whoa! On this you are completely wrong. I was living off Sathorn in 2010 when Taksin's rent a rabble were hurling grenades and using rocket launchers to bring down Sala Daeng Sky Train. They also turned Central World to toast and made great use of gasoline tankers. In no way can that be compared with Suthep's popgun

Thaksins "rent a rabble"

" rocket launchers to bring down the sky train"

"turned Central World to toast"

Rather sad for your case that after all these years and so few accused, there are no convictions in the CW arson.

Rather begs the question, who actually did it, rather than who is it most convenient to blame.???

Let's not talk about medics and journalists being murdered and the use of snipers in demonstration control...... ( possibly a world first )

All is rosy, and "all for the best, in this best of all possible worlds" for the right whingers ( spot the typo) here.

[whybother]

Section 182 (2) allows them to stand down.

But not for a non-elected body to take over. They stand down (and indeed, stood down) until a newly elected government takes over.

They didn't stand down. Parliament was dissolved. If the had stood down, ie resigned, they wouldn't have been the caretaker government.

There is nothing in the 2007 constitution to allow an unelected body to take over, but that doesn't stop them from resigning.

[Thai at Heart]

The army has M16's field guns,tanks, modern fighter aircraft and they need a shield to protect themselves ?

I would think that is a perfect reason why they need martial law. Would you prefer them to use their armoury instead?

But as John higher up mentioned, apparently whenever there is a mob a government is suppose to cave in. Apparently this govt according to him.intervened because of the attacks on the protesters. And terrible they were too.

I presume in another time, this govt would be just as accomodating of a mob protesting their overthrow. I mean, its not as though the army has any experience of shooting its own people.

Agreed, and that's the point, the government had already caved in and then stayed on a caretaker government (as Thai law dictates) until an election can be held. They tried for an election which was violently halted by the same thugs that were driving around Phuket on motorbikes and closed kids schools for some reason! The coup was not so much a coup just a simple grabbing of power as there was no government!

The successful blocking of the election whilst everyone stood around and let it happen was quite astonishing. It was a blatent show to the world that there was a willingness to do anything necessary to stop any elections whatsoever happening. It really was a very embarassing moment for Thailand, made all the more embarassing by peoples reaction on here, who should have known better than to support that action.

[whybother]

This thread is so full of BS and monstrous double-standards, it's not true.

I followed events very closely and what happened to cause the coup was pretty straightforward:

Pheu-Thai refused point blank to allow any political reform before a new election. They were 100% prepared to use every means in their power to prevent it. This slid into open terrorist attacks against innocent protestors of the WORST kind : grenades being firing randomly into crowds.

As things were getting more desperate, Prayuth got them all together (a deliberate act) and gave them a chance to back away from the killing. They refused and so he took control. They refused because they had no power to agree : that decision was taken from a luxury hotel room in Dubai long before the meeting.

The rest is all just a consequence of that decision. Once Prayuth had made the decision, he had no choice but to follow the current path, and to commit to it 100%.

I have no reason to prefer one side over another. I form my opinions by following the news over time and things become pretty clear if your glasses are not tinted red or yellow.

Nobody wants this Junta, but all you people whining about it are blaming the wrong people. Of course, there's nothing new there. I've met very few Thais who will accept the consequence of their actions : they always blame somebody else.

Unfortunately for this narrative you've left out the key player; yes, Suthep and his barmy army.

For six months they blocked the traffic, caused immense disruption to ordinary people going about their business, were guilty of just as much violence as the PTP people and ultimately obstructed and caused the abandonment of free elections. On the basis of Suthep's subsequent comments it is almost certain that the whole point of the exercise was to bring about the coup; ie he was simply acting as an agent provocateur for the military.

Your version of events is rather like the Second World War without Hitler.

Whoa! On this you are completely wrong. I was living off Sathorn in 2010 when Taksin's rent a rabble were hurling grenades and using rocket launchers to bring down Sala Daeng Sky Train. They also turned Central World to toast and made great use of gasoline tankers. In no way can that be compared with Suthep's popgun

Thaksins "rent a rabble"

" rocket launchers to bring down the sky train"

"turned Central World to toast"

Rather sad for your case that after all these years and so few accused, there are no convictions in the CW arson.

Rather begs the question, who actually did it, rather than who is it most convenient to blame.???

Let's not talk about medics and journalists being murdered and the use of snipers in demonstration control...... ( possibly a world first )

All is rosy, and "all for the best, in this best of all possible worlds" for the right whingers ( spot the typo) here.

Just because they haven't been able to convict individuals for the CW fire doesn't mean that it wasn't done by red shirts.

[sjaak327]

Nvm

Edited January 3, 2015 by sjaak327

[sjaak327]

Agreed, and that's the point, the government had already caved in and then stayed on a caretaker government (as Thai law dictates) until an election can be held. They tried for an election which was violently halted by the same thugs that were driving around Phuket on motorbikes and closed kids schools for some reason! The coup was not so much a coup just a simple grabbing of power as there was no government!

Which law dictates that a government HAS to stay on after they have dissolved parliament?

Chapter IX, section 181. Constitution of Thailand 2007.

Also apart from the above, there is no provision in that constitution that allow them to stand down for a non elected body such as Suthep and his buddies.

Section 182 (2) allows them to stand down.

No it doesn't, that section handles resignation of individual ministers, not the government as a whole. Section 181 is crystal clear.