Dog Attacks 4 Year Old at Koh Chang White Sand Beach

[metisdead]

A post with incorrect assumptions as to this case has been removed as well as the replies.

[konying]

Nobody seems to ask "what did this child do to provoke the attack?". Did the dog attack anybody else? I very much doubt that the dog singled her out and went after her. Parents, KEEP YOUR CHILDREN AWAY FROM STRAY DOGS IN ALL COUNTRIES. Yes, there are many stray dogs here in Thailand, I have encountered many and always found that if I leave them alone, they show no interest in me. With their fur coats and inability to sweat they are even hotter than we are and just need to be left alone. Parents, beware your children approaching them. Best wishes to the little girl.

Most of your post is absolute nonsense - and your ideas of the dogs being "hotter than we are" is quite risible - you need to find out how dogs keep cool.

Of course it's nonsrnse because using little brain, common sense and logic is not for everyone to understand.

What kind of an idiot should protect kids from wild animals ?! One should take the kid to the jungle and leave it alone , right?

Edited January 5, 2015 by konying

[wilcopops]

Nobody seems to ask "what did this child do to provoke the attack?". Did the dog attack anybody else? I very much doubt that the dog singled her out and went after her. Parents, KEEP YOUR CHILDREN AWAY FROM STRAY DOGS IN ALL COUNTRIES. Yes, there are many stray dogs here in Thailand, I have encountered many and always found that if I leave them alone, they show no interest in me. With their fur coats and inability to sweat they are even hotter than we are and just need to be left alone. Parents, beware your children approaching them. Best wishes to the little girl.

Most of your post is absolute nonsense - and your ideas of the dogs being "hotter than we are" is quite risible - you need to find out how dogs keep cool.

Of course it's nonsrnse because using little brain, common sense and logic is not for everyone to understand.

What kind of an idiot should protect kids from wild animals ?! One should take the kid to the jungle and leave it alone , right?

QED! - what a garbled post!

[smotherb]

As a parent I would like to express my sympathy with the OP. All this talk about not paying enough attention is utter rubbish. We are watching our kids well and still accidents happen, unfortunately. Nothing to do with negligence!

Stefan, kudos for being a good parent, but I see parents allowing their toddlers to run-free at parks, on beaches, in restaurants, and at shopping malls and stores all the time. I've even seen them allow their kids to run free on the sidewalks.

[wilcopops]

As a parent I would like to express my sympathy with the OP. All this talk about not paying enough attention is utter rubbish. We are watching our kids well and still accidents happen, unfortunately. Nothing to do with negligence!

Stefan, kudos for being a good parent, but I see parents allowing their toddlers to run-free at parks, on beaches, in restaurants, and at shopping malls and stores all the time. I've even seen them allow their kids to run free on the sidewalks.

We all have...so by what form of logic are you allowed to infer that these parents were anything but diligent??????

[Keesters]

Koh Chang is long over due a cull of the scummy dogs that roam around the island. It is a huge problem, which could be dealt with swiftly and cheaply.

The island authorities are aware of this problem, but have done nothing about it.

I am sorry to hear that, which must have been a terrifying experience for your daughter, as well as the family. I hope she makes a speedy recovery.

it is not a cull that is needed...dogs should be neutered by there owners easy and cheap ..

If it's a beach dog, who's the owner ? You have any idea ???

Just sayin.

Cheers..... Mal.

Beenhere - again this shows an underlying misconception about this kind of dogs. they usually don't have an "owner" in the usual sense - they may have "attached" themselves to a particular establishment or person. Many Sois like to have a pack in the street as they bark at strangers - a form of security. Others believe they "make merit" by feeding these animals - they mistake it for "taking care of" which it isn't.

Occasionally the dog may have an "owner" but this is seldom the same kind of relationship we might have with a pet dog in the West

Bangkok made it clear some years ago that if you feed a dog it is yours. If it is good enough for Bangkok it should be good enough for the rest of the country. I also recall reading the same about India.

So:

Feed it you own it. You also own all the poop and piss that the dog makes. Anyone who feeds a dog and doesn't clean up its mess is a dirty b*stard and not worthy of living with humans.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Keesters

[for real]

Koh Chang is long over due a cull of the scummy dogs that roam around the island. It is a huge problem, which could be dealt with swiftly and cheaply.

The island authorities are aware of this problem, but have done nothing about it.

I am sorry to hear that, which must have been a terrifying experience for your daughter, as well as the family. I hope she makes a speedy recovery.

it is not a cull that is needed...dogs should be neutered by there owners easy and cheap ..

I take it you live on Koh Chang, or are you just making an assumption? A cull of the strays is needed full stop. Otherwise the dog problem will continue. Neutering will be useful after a cull.

been here 17+ years...never had a problem with the dogs...had loads with retarded drunk drivers Thai and westerners..sadly a child has been attacked..but how many people are injured daily by the drunk drivers,,should they be culled?

Do you really believe that the soi dogs are lovely peaceful creatures?

They are more likely to attack you than any drunk driver..even a western one.

Possibly your love of the dogs is the cause for your problems with 'retards'.

Edited January 5, 2015 by for real

[StefanBBK]

As a parent I would like to express my sympathy with the OP. All this talk about not paying enough attention is utter rubbish. We are watching our kids well and still accidents happen, unfortunately. Nothing to do with negligence!

Stefan, kudos for being a good parent, but I see parents allowing their toddlers to run-free at parks, on beaches, in restaurants, and at shopping malls and stores all the time. I've even seen them allow their kids to run free on the sidewalks.

I think it all depends on circumstances. Restaurants,sidewalks, malls etc. are a definite NO. Beaches and parks depends on many factors, if allowed to run free, I suggest to keep both eyes on the kid and stay close.

In this case I assume that the OP was right next to the kid in a restaurant having breakfast. No need for "parent bashing" without having clear facts.

[krisb]

Nobody seems to ask "what did this child do to provoke the attack?". Did the dog attack anybody else? I very much doubt that the dog singled her out and went after her. Parents, KEEP YOUR CHILDREN AWAY FROM STRAY DOGS IN ALL COUNTRIES. Yes, there are many stray dogs here in Thailand, I have encountered many and always found that if I leave them alone, they show no interest in me. With their fur coats and inability to sweat they are even hotter than we are and just need to be left alone. Parents, beware your children approaching them. Best wishes to the little girl.

Most of your post is absolute nonsense - and your ideas of the dogs being "hotter than we are" is quite risible - you need to find out how dogs keep cool.

Of course it's nonsrnse because using little brain, common sense and logic is not for everyone to understand.

What kind of an idiot should protect kids from wild animals ?! One should take the kid to the jungle and leave it alone , right?

QED! - what a garbled post!

No point arguing with such self absorbed arrogance.

[wilcopops]

As a parent I would like to express my sympathy with the OP. All this talk about not paying enough attention is utter rubbish. We are watching our kids well and still accidents happen, unfortunately. Nothing to do with negligence!

Stefan, kudos for being a good parent, but I see parents allowing their toddlers to run-free at parks, on beaches, in restaurants, and at shopping malls and stores all the time. I've even seen them allow their kids to run free on the sidewalks.

I think it all depends on circumstances. Restaurants,sidewalks, malls etc. are a definite NO. Beaches and parks depends on many factors, if allowed to run free, I suggest to keep both eyes on the kid and stay close.

In this case I assume that the OP was right next to the kid in a restaurant having breakfast. No need for "parent bashing" without having clear facts.

" it all depends on circumstances" - Not really, what is needed is a sea-change in attitude to dogs throughout the country - in fact Koh Chang doesn't need to wait; being an island they can have their own policies and plans. The fact remains that semi-feral dogs - owners or not - are allowed to roam around with no restrictions whatsoever. Dogs by nature are unpredictable - they can see one person as a threat to there space when many others ae not.....they have changes in behaviour throughout the day and KC is meant to be a HOLIDAY island, by implication it should expect and protect children.

[Xeralf]

Sorry to hear what happened. I hope she is fine now. It must have been very scary.

We live here for whatever reasons and have to accept situations leaving us

with no real options to file damages claims of some sort.

Among other reasons because we first think about our wellbeing

and somewhat believe that getting into the legal system is not going to bring us any good.

We might even feel that the restaurant (staff) is just trying to make a living and we feel bad if asking for any sort of responsibility.

However, I think the restaurant and/or municipality are partially responsible, at least if if they do not prove

they had taken reasonable measures to prevent such accidents.

Ultimately, the attack happened in their premises/area/table you were patronizing

and it is their responsibility to keep that area safe.

Otherwise it would be like “dine here at your own risk”.

Unfortunately I probably do nothing if something like this happens to me because,

no matter what we do, nothing is going to change, damage is done and that is a tragedy.

[Keesters]

Sorry to hear what happened. I hope she is fine now. It must have been very scary.

We live here for whatever reasons and have to accept situations leaving us

with no real options to file damages claims of some sort.

Among other reasons because we first think about our wellbeing

and somewhat believe that getting into the legal system is not going to bring us any good.

We might even feel that the restaurant (staff) is just trying to make a living and we feel bad if asking for any sort of responsibility.

However, I think the restaurant and/or municipality are partially responsible, at least if if they do not prove

they had taken reasonable measures to prevent such accidents.

Ultimately, the attack happened in their premises/area/table you were patronizing

and it is their responsibility to keep that area safe.

Otherwise it would be like “dine here at your own risk”.

Unfortunately I probably do nothing if something like this happens to me because,

no matter what we do, nothing is going to change, damage is done and that is a tragedy.

If the dog was on their premises and they feed it, which I'd bet they do, I'd say it is their, the hotels, dog and they are responsible.

Seriously why else would a dog be on hotel property unless they knew it, never chased it out, fed it. It was probably hoping for some scraps.

Liability insurance is available in Thailand and any business would be daft not to have it.

The matter should be reported to the police, they will decide who is at fault.

[CharlieH]

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[catman20]

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I would have killed the dog straight out.

As appealing and righteous as this may seem to you and me, chances are it would just compound the OP's problems.

agreed !

[StefanBBK]

As a parent I would like to express my sympathy with the OP. All this talk about not paying enough attention is utter rubbish. We are watching our kids well and still accidents happen, unfortunately. Nothing to do with negligence!

Stefan, kudos for being a good parent, but I see parents allowing their toddlers to run-free at parks, on beaches, in restaurants, and at shopping malls and stores all the time. I've even seen them allow their kids to run free on the sidewalks.

I think it all depends on circumstances. Restaurants,sidewalks, malls etc. are a definite NO. Beaches and parks depends on many factors, if allowed to run free, I suggest to keep both eyes on the kid and stay close.

In this case I assume that the OP was right next to the kid in a restaurant having breakfast. No need for "parent bashing" without having clear facts.

" it all depends on circumstances" - Not really, what is needed is a sea-change in attitude to dogs throughout the country - in fact Koh Chang doesn't need to wait; being an island they can have their own policies and plans. The fact remains that semi-feral dogs - owners or not - are allowed to roam around with no restrictions whatsoever. Dogs by nature are unpredictable - they can see one person as a threat to there space when many others ae not.....they have changes in behaviour throughout the day and KC is meant to be a HOLIDAY island, by implication it should expect and protect children.

Just a clarification. When I say "depends on circumstance " I mean the circumstance under which one let's children be a little less watched. I would count 'having breakfast in a resort' as a circumstance were one naturally is less concerned about aggressive dogs then on an open beach / park etc.

[neverdie]

Let's see how the soi dog lovers defend this mutts right to exist. I hope the little girl recovers from her traumatic experience without physical scarring.

Not too hard. OP States we were having breakfast , so how exactly did parents allow for child to wonder off on the beach with street dogs ?

Yes it is terrible and speedy recovery to a little girl, but hate to be the bashing spoiler, parents are 100 % responsible and are to blame

You really are an apologist of the worst sort

Not at all.

Dog is an animal with limited capabilities , what is humans excuse?

Supposedly humans are superior beings, and yet child is left unattended with wild animal

Tool,

stop calling the dogs 'wild'. They are 'feral strays, a whole world away from being 'wild'.....if they were 'wild' they'd have eaten the poor kid in one sitting.

It's hard for you but try to keep up.

[ThePlant]

stop calling the dogs 'wild'. They are 'feral strays, a whole world away from being 'wild'.....if they were 'wild' they'd have eaten the poor kid in one sitting.

Very much so. They still maintain a basic learned fear of man.

I once had one hide under my table as I was sheltering from a downpour in a cheap and nasty place in Pattaya after some moto driver tried to boot it out in the street. It stank too (though that could have been the 'coffee') plus it kept giving me fearful glances and I never harmed an animal in my life. It fair put me off my 99B breakfast too I can tell ye......but not as much as when I didn't get my change though.....

[kirkieb]

Have a dog owned by some wealthy foreigners who own a dog with a history of attacking other dogs without any reason. Dog has left his own area when other dogs are seen usually some distance away. Anyone know who we can contact that will ensure this dog who killed a smaller dog a few days ago and has apparently paid the local constabulary to look away. My concern is five other pets not street dogs have been attacked while walked on a leash. The owner have no concern if the dog bites a child and I want to know how can we remove the offending dog or atleast have it permanently muzzled

[ATF]

kirkieb, on 05 Jan 2015 - 17:27, said:

Have a dog owned by some wealthy foreigners who own a dog with a history of attacking other dogs without any reason. Dog has left his own area when other dogs are seen usually some distance away. Anyone know who we can contact that will ensure this dog who killed a smaller dog a few days ago and has apparently paid the local constabulary to look away. My concern is five other pets not street dogs have been attacked while walked on a leash. The owner have no concern if the dog bites a child and I want to know how can we remove the offending dog or atleast have it permanently muzzled

Thailand is full of cretins like this, as they say a dog takes after it's owner. I had a neighbor that had a dog like this and when it attacked my dog I grabbed it's tail, swung it 360 degrees a few times and put it through their car windshield. Unfortunately it survived.

[StefanBBK]

Have a dog owned by some wealthy foreigners who own a dog with a history of attacking other dogs without any reason. Dog has left his own area when other dogs are seen usually some distance away. Anyone know who we can contact that will ensure this dog who killed a smaller dog a few days ago and has apparently paid the local constabulary to look away. My concern is five other pets not street dogs have been attacked while walked on a leash. The owner have no concern if the dog bites a child and I want to know how can we remove the offending dog or atleast have it permanently muzzled

Sorry to hear. Call a supervisor and if that does not help get the courts involved. Get a Thai to help.

[crusty]

A pet is not a street or beach dog. A pet is one that is cared for properly and kept on private property except when taken out for supervised exercise. Those kind of pets don't need desexing.

Ke esters, please go back a few more steps. This problem is perpetuated by dumped dogs and cats and the lack of desexing of pets. Clean it up and it will rebuild itself as a problem in due course.....you can bank on that.

Again, a multi facet approach needs to be adopted to control the problem. Denouncing people for assisting suffering animals isn't the answer.

As I said before these dogs are not pets. These dogs are stray, runaway, feral dogs not pets. While I agree that some action is needed in training people not to dump unwanted animals are we to suffer the existing huge population of these menacing animals for the next 10, 20, 50 years as they continue to breed. Let them all starve. Perhaps then the authorities will step in and do something. Feeding them is a major part of the problem. The more food they get the more they breed and the more young children such as the one in the OP will get hurt.

We eradicate mosquitoes, why not eradicate street and beach dogs?

Ke esters,

I will try to be more simplistic.

Imagine I remove all the soi dogs today, every one of them....not a single one left.

Tommorrow at 0001hrs the first Thai pet gets dumped or litter from a Thai pet gets dumped. By 2359 the next day there probably already a few hundred dogs roaming the streets, after a few short years we will be back to where we started at. I REALISE THIS IS A SIMPLISTIC MODEL.

As I said, a muti facet way of handling the problem is needed to deal with the issue. Simply trying to starve out the soi dogs is not the answer and wouldn't work. They will feed off their own dead, if they have to and keep breeding, heck they will even eat their own vulnerable. Bit like humans.

Cruelty is never the way.

A campaign to eradicate street dogs and strays is needed along with nuking of pets and a government body that deals with the problem. Anything short of this will fail.

There is the problem with the mindset of the people and Buddhist issues that probably mean the first steps will new be taken. Sad but true. So really, the main opponents to the problem have two choices....live with it or remove oneself from it....unless of course you think you and a few other pitch fork members can make it happen.

Me thinks not but I wish you well. Please understand, I understand your point about it not being a pet related problem, but if you pedal back a few dozen steps, you will find that dumped pets and offspring of pets is a major feeder for the soi dog and cat problems and this isn't trying to deny that they 'the soi animals' also breed.

Some years ago, the Samui authorities got serious and begun a dog cull by laying baits and issuing plenty of pre warnings of when and where by loudspeaker trucks for dog owners to ensure their dogs were tethered at home those days. Then they sent teams with tranquilizer darts so the stray dogs could be captured. This stopped after the teams were beaten up by do gooder farang tourists (mostly German). Every resort experiences Farang guests bringing beach dogs back to their bungalows even allowing the mutts to sleep in the rooms so DONT BLAME THE THAIS !

"This stopped after the teams were beaten up by do gooder farang tourists (mostly German)." - sorry this is not true - just gossip.

​One incident is not a portrayal of the whole situation and anyone with the slightest knowledge of Thailand will be aware of the problems of putting down one dog, let alone a cull.

If you want a more complete picture, Google the attempted cull in Bangkok a few years back.

There is even an unfortunate tenet of sone Buddhism and Animism that suggests to some people that killing a dog may be killing one of your ancestors.......apart from the idea that ALL life is sacred...right down to mosquitoes.....

Who are you to say it is not true ? Another keyboard warrior ! I've been shooing off beach dogs and phony monks from hassling our guests for 30 years now and the dog culling teams made sure our Alsatian, Judy was pre warned as she was well known after saving several drowning kids.

[Keesters]

Have a dog owned by some wealthy foreigners who own a dog with a history of attacking other dogs without any reason. Dog has left his own area when other dogs are seen usually some distance away. Anyone know who we can contact that will ensure this dog who killed a smaller dog a few days ago and has apparently paid the local constabulary to look away. My concern is five other pets not street dogs have been attacked while walked on a leash. The owner have no concern if the dog bites a child and I want to know how can we remove the offending dog or atleast have it permanently muzzled

Where is this happening?

[Keesters]

Have a dog owned by some wealthy foreigners who own a dog with a history of attacking other dogs without any reason. Dog has left his own area when other dogs are seen usually some distance away. Anyone know who we can contact that will ensure this dog who killed a smaller dog a few days ago and has apparently paid the local constabulary to look away. My concern is five other pets not street dogs have been attacked while walked on a leash. The owner have no concern if the dog bites a child and I want to know how can we remove the offending dog or atleast have it permanently muzzled

Where is this happening?

Silly me I have now checked your profile @kirkieb and seen that you live in Pattaya. Pattaya has city regulations regarding dogs. You may speak to either:

1 - The city vet who has an office near the 3rd road exit of the fire station.

2 - The public health veterinary section located in the basement of Public Health office next to Pattaya City Hospital soi buakhow.

3 - City Hall, north road

4 - Police, Beach road.

I've found the first 2 very helpful, the 3rd reasonably helpful and the 4th just about doing their duty but who did scare the offenders away.

Basically you can insist that any owned dog be leased while on public property. The owner of a dog is responsible for any damages caused by their dog. For strays (aka unowned dogs) they will remove them if found to be dangerous.

[Kf6vci]

Why not take matters into your own hand and making sure that this don won't harm another child?

I would tear it apart with my hands if he had harmed by cat. As I have no children, I cannot begin to imagine how you have felt about this.

May your girl have a speedy recovery and no lasting trauma! (I remember vividly years of fear and neighbor's aggressive dog...)

[petercool]

A number of of topic posts removed

[Johnny S]

If a dog run Loose without collar just shoot it - dogs are predators by nature and will attack children at random

[cardinalblue]

Culling doesn't work without a comprehensive policy and program in place...so those are just emotionally reactions w/o thought...look how fish and game handles wild animal attacks in regional parks next to population centers. These are good policies to copy and follow...

If soi dogs and my experience beach dogs (seem to be much more aggressive than soi dogs - my guess less human interaction and territorial issues involved), then these domesticated genetically yet unsocialized dogs are known health hazards, why don't guardians/families take greater precautions when venturing into areas (like beaches, city parks, less traveled roads, dead end sois,etc)? Without proper policies and program enforcement, individual/family responsibility and due diligence dramatically increases (whether soi dogs, air pollution, driving, public transportation, walking, food/water safety, excursions, etc)...

Some people always bitch about why they do not like being government-regulated/controlled in their "home" country and move to Thailand, You can't have it both ways guys! Well, this is just one example of many public safety issues that people (foreigners and visitors) have just gotten spoiled and let their guard down. Poor guy crossing the street at soi 4/Sukhumvit Rd yesterday becomes another victim of western protection. Who doesn't know about the potential dangers that stray dogs pose in this country? Kind of like going to Africa for a safari and then seemed shocked that the rhino rammed their jeep...Should we start culling rhinos? Does Thailand have a dog eat dog mentality? You betch ya!

Thailand ain't Hawaii - public safety costs money and more importantly buy-in/compliance by the general public into the comprehensive policies and programs put in place by respective governments.....Thailand has elected not to...

CB

[DLock]

Culling doesn't work without a comprehensive policy and program in place...so those are just emotionally reactions w/o thought...look how fish and game handles wild animal attacks in regional parks next to population centers. These are good policies to copy and follow...

If soi dogs and my experience beach dogs (seem to be much more aggressive than soi dogs - my guess less human interaction and territorial issues involved), then these domesticated genetically yet unsocialized dogs are known health hazards, why don't guardians/families take greater precautions when venturing into areas (like beaches, city parks, less traveled roads, dead end sois,etc)? Without proper policies and program enforcement, individual/family responsibility and due diligence dramatically increases (whether soi dogs, air pollution, driving, public transportation, walking, food/water safety, excursions, etc)...

Some people always bitch about why they do not like being government-regulated/controlled in their "home" country and move to Thailand, You can't have it both ways guys! Well, this is just one example of many public safety issues that people (foreigners and visitors) have just gotten spoiled and let their guard down. Poor guy crossing the street at soi 4/Sukhumvit Rd yesterday becomes another victim of western protection. Who doesn't know about the potential dangers that stray dogs pose in this country? Kind of like going to Africa for a safari and then seemed shocked that the rhino rammed their jeep...Should we start culling rhinos? Does Thailand have a dog eat dog mentality? You betch ya!

Thailand ain't Hawaii - public safety costs money and more importantly buy-in/compliance by the general public into the comprehensive policies and programs put in place by respective governments.....Thailand has elected not to...

CB

That was probably the dumbest thing I have read today.

Congratulations.

[Toknarok]

Correct. People go on animal safaris to look at the animals in the wild. They should be aware of the dangers and take precautions. People do NOT go to public beaches to look at and photograph soi dogs (dingoes on Fraser Island Aust. excepted). The mangy diseased animals are not native to national parks or beaches, they are there because humans introduced them and neglected to control them.

A properly controlled cull (especially on an island) would be most effective. The Australian wildlife people are experst at this and have had great success with their culling programmes of foxes feral dogs and cats. I'm sure if they put their mind to it the Thais could do the same.

[Loles]

So sorry for your small daughter to got this typical idiot Thai thing.

They don't care anything at all.

You watch this dog and kill it, this is the minimum. When those monster will die you will see who was the owner (will be up set so much).

I wish to your girl the best, quick and full recovery.