Enforce the law or.....

[gandalf12]

OP.

Presumably you knew the score before moving here (if indeed you have.)

Therefore live and let live.

Don't try and change what's not broken.

Or you will end up in the scary world you left.

Big brother,nanny state.

Is that what you want?

It sounds very much if you ignore the laws on a constant basis. Either that or you dont go out very much. You know many of the laws are ignored so how you can state "Don't try and change what's not broken" is quite amazing.

I can respect that you are entitled to your opinion but I certainly dont agree with it

[robblok]

The first time I came to Thailand the most pleasant thing was the lack of regulation after living in an industry and world dominated by it. So if you have fears and worries about the system here, keep them to yourself and let the others enjoy the pleasure of being here.

I liked that a lot too.. however the longer you live here you see the results of no rules. Something could be improved, i mean the road carnage is not something to be proud of.

[GreasyFingers]

The first time I came to Thailand the most pleasant thing was the lack of regulation after living in an industry and world dominated by it. So if you have fears and worries about the system here, keep them to yourself and let the others enjoy the pleasure of being here.

I liked that a lot too.. however the longer you live here you see the results of no rules. Something could be improved, i mean the road carnage is not something to be proud of.

I agree that Thais can be dangerous on the road but the only time I see road rage is by a farang. Mostly the Thai drivers/riders are much more considerate and patient.

[crazygreg44]

Ask the police to collect a few, let's say, twelve good photos of the heads of motorcycle accident victims that weren't wearing helmets and got crushed in the accidents. The blood, the bones and the slime all over in all clarity must be obvious in these pics.

Then round up the classes, one after the next,in school for an overhead projection media show, and force them to take a look at what can happen if they wear no helmets in an accident. Make them take a selfie with a crushed head as a background, take it home and show their parents.

I bet it wouldn't need any more laws any longer, that do not get obeyed, nor would it take much more of "education on nothing" . All it needs is to confront them with the outcome.

Well I know, this is against the "face saving" etiquette thing, I knooow . . .

[yardrunner]

In the UK you drive without insurance and a licence and are caught your vehicle is impounded until the problem is resolved and then you have to pay a very big fine to get it back or if you don't pay the fine the vehicle is either sold or scrapped would something similar work here

[marko kok prong]

Make's me wonder about the 26,000 or so that got stopped and did not produce a licence over the new year,what happens if they cannot produce one[ie;do not have one],is it just a fine and then on your way,if this is the case,it surely needs fixing.

[oneday]

It's not just enforcing the laws, but that is certainly a huge step in the right direction. It must be done with hidden patrol cars or bikes that chase you down and ticket you...not checkpoints. There is a need for a whole system that works together to make it all work. I guarantee you I would speed if I could in the US, but I don't because it costs too much money for me to get caught. There are two ways it costs me money. First I have to pay the fine on the ticket and secondly my insurance premium goes up for 3 years until the ticket drops off my record.

DMV = Department of Motor Vehicles

We can't register our vehicles unless we show proof of insurance and every time you get a ticket it gets reported to DMV and from there to your insurance company who has access to DMV. With patrols cars everywhere you can only get away so long with breaking the law and when you are caught enough it really starts to hurt the wallet. Break the law enough and you lose your driver's license.

Thailand isn't even close to recording all ticketed offenses into a national database accessible by any law enforcement agency and by insurance companies. Put all that in place and the Thai people would start to get the hint really quick.

[sundrenched]

The first time I came to Thailand the most pleasant thing was the lack of regulation after living in an industry and world dominated by it. So if you have fears and worries about the system here, keep them to yourself and let the others enjoy the pleasure of being here.

I honestly don't get that. Give me some examples of regulations that bothered you in your home country. And not those regarding prostitution -- I don't mean that as a snide comment, but I understand that many prefer that not to be illegal.

Is it the freedom to drive motorcycles on the pavement you like? The freedom to dump toxic waste in the river? The freedom to release toxic fumes in the air? Seeing "hisos" encroach on national parks?

For me, all the things that are illegal in my home country are things you shouldn't be doing in the first place. So what are these oppressive laws you're escaping? Real question.

[sundrenched]

And to continue on my previous comment: I'd even argue the opposite that there are more pesky regulations in force here: like when to buy alcohol, irrational and punitive taxation on alcohol, rampant censorship in all media including blocking of many websites and digital snooping as admitted last week by a minister, and draconian punishment against drug offences. I haven't touched an illegal drug in my entire life, but nowadays many do, and you can pretty much get away with that in the West, but good luck to you if you get caught here.

And also on the ledger is all the negative implications on other people of the freedom here. Anyone here who enjoys crossing Sukhumvit and dealing with the kind-hearted drivers?

[herb59]

i have to disagree a little bit.....laws are necessary, of course. otherwise you cant drive aso. but nowadays too many laws are coming to stop stupid people to do stupid things! in every country, the people dont follow everything. the most necessary thing would be: respect, to live and let live. how our grand-grand-grand parents could survive.......could write, but no time........

[kkerry]

Vietnam had mandatory motorcycle helmet laws but most people ignored them. They changed the law to enable police to seize the bikes of anyone not wearing a helmet. Usage rose from 30% to over 90% for adults today.

Look at what happened in Victoria Australia. In 1970 the road toll was 1,034 for that year, so the government decided enough was enough and started with a range of harsher laws targeting seat belt use, drink driving and speeding. Today there are probably at least three times as many cars on the road but the annual road toll is now under 250. Speed cameras and breathalyzers everywhere, day and night. Years ago nearly everyone drove at 120kph in a 100kph zone on the highway but now it's very noticeable how most sit on 100 as the speed camera fines are so high it's not worth it. Many people look at the speed cameras as revenue raising but it has changed the way people drive and it's reflected in the road toll figures. People complain, and I agree it, is annoying with the constant change in speed limits as you drive around town but like they say, better to arrive alive than not at all.

[gandalf12]

i have to disagree a little bit.....laws are necessary, of course. otherwise you cant drive aso. but nowadays too many laws are coming to stop stupid people to do stupid things! in every country, the people dont follow everything. the most necessary thing would be: respect, to live and let live. how our grand-grand-grand parents could survive.......could write, but no time........

They probably didnt drive cars or motor cycles. I dont advocate laws taken to the point of stopping all activity but tough enough and used so that the crazies we see every day on the roads dont have a chance to kill someone.

In Alberta Canada the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) will turn blind eye to you going over the speed limit if it is less than 10 kph in access but go above that and they will have you.

By driving like an idiot these people are showing no respect to other road users and will take up valuable hospital time and facilities if or when they have an accident, not to mention the trauma experienced by their families.

A bit of common sense is obviously required in enforcing the law but the motor cycle riders who have no number plate, ride on the walk ways and drive like the devil is after them need to be made aware that it is not acceptable

[sundrenched]

OK, to answer my own question: if I really rack my brains I can think of some minor things. Like when my sister wanted to renovate her house and had to get a bunch of permissions from the local city council, and a lot of it was just a PITA. I can imagine if you run a company, that you run into a lot of regulations and taxes that you'd rather not have.

But then again, those things are not better and probably worse here. There was a very interesting article 1-2 weeks ago in the Bangkok Post about all the regulations faced by developers. For instance, getting a second entrance approved to a condo is a real PITA (before knowing this, I had been wondering why condos don't have second entrances more often, as it would often be a great convenience). Also a nightmarish warren of regulations from different departments that need to issue permits and that don't work together, or even contradict each other. I think for nightmarish bureaucracy (that mysteriously crawls to a halt if no money is passed under the table), it's hard to beat Thailand.

I'm not trying to be argumentative for its own sake here, but now I think of it, there are more laws restricting me personally here (especially regarding alcohol and censorship) than in the West. I honestly can't recall the last time I wanted to do something in the West, but it would have been illegal.

[sundrenched]

OK fair point (didn't think of it myself): In my home country, the speed limit is 50-70-90-120 depending on the type of road, and in some cases it's ridiculously low, like 50 km (for built-up residential areas) but in fact more like a highway through an industrial area and you could drive 90 safely. It hasn't really kept me up at night though, and I rather have that than internet censorship or even the ridiculous restricted alcohol buying times and prohibitions on certain days.

But back to my earlier question, can anyone give me examples of laws in your home country that you felt were oppressive. I get that most men prefer prostitution to be legal. Also doesn't count is laws meant to stop obvious crime, exploitation, pollution and other anti-social behavior like drink-driving. Give me some laws that enchain the normal, decent average Joe in the West to the point they felt they were suffocating? Or is this just a meme that goes around expat circles in Thailand? It doesn't stand scrutiny in my opinion.

Edited January 5, 2015 by sundrenched

[gandalf12]

OK fair point (didn't think of it myself): In my home country, the speed limit is 50-70-90-120 depending on the type of road, and in some cases it's ridiculously low, like 50 km (for built-up residential areas) but in fact more like a highway through an industrial area and you could drive 90 safely. It hasn't really kept me up at night though, and I rather have that than internet censorship or even the ridiculous restricted alcohol buying times and prohibitions on certain days.

The Internet I can live with but if you think about it, assuming they sold alcohol 24/7 how many morons would be totally drunk in the day time and driving a vehicle? If people thought before they acted I agree times windows would not be required but people being people will always think it isnt a problem for them.

I agree with some of the speed limits in different countries, however having said that, the area may have children living there and as well know kids dont think before running into the road to get the ball so maybe some of these low speed limits are necessary as frustrating as they are for the driver

[watcharacters]

The three "E s" of law enforcement.

Educate,

,

Engineer,

Enforce.

In that order!

Education is first, billboards, radio and television Public Service Announcements teaching people the consequences of unsafe driving is a necessity.

Engineering of safe roads, not only safe surfaces to drive on, but posted speed limits, adequate passing lanes and enough room to park a vehicle without blocking traffic, school zones, pedestrian crossings along with numerous other things is essential.

Enforcement: Once the public has been educated and a safe driving environment has been provided, apprehension of violators is the last step. Heavy fines, jail time, impoundment of vehicles and the loss of the right to drive will be taken seriously. This would require a larger force of traffic officers willing to get out and actually patrol.

If the three "Es" were implemented in Thailand, the country would lose it's rating as the second most dangerous country in the world for traffic fatalities.

It is really that simple.

.

You should probably be banned from Thailand for posting something so simple and clear so as to shame the powers that be.

One thing I can say with confidence, your ideas, no matter how good, are not going to happen during the lifetime of the current TV members.

[laislica]

The three "E s" of law enforcement.

Educate,

,

Engineer,

Enforce.

In that order!

Education is first, billboards, radio and television Public Service Announcements teaching people the consequences of unsafe driving is a necessity.

Engineering of safe roads, not only safe surfaces to drive on, but posted speed limits, adequate passing lanes and enough room to park a vehicle without blocking traffic, school zones, pedestrian crossings along with numerous other things is essential.

Enforcement: Once the public has been educated and a safe driving environment has been provided, apprehension of violators is the last step. Heavy fines, jail time, impoundment of vehicles and the loss of the right to drive will be taken seriously. This would require a larger force of traffic officers willing to get out and actually patrol.

If the three "Es" were implemented in Thailand, the country would lose it's rating as the second most dangerous country in the world for traffic fatalities.

It is really that simple.

Indeed.

The education should start in kindergartens and schools, universities etc.

The parents cannot teach their children because they themselves have no concept oif the rule of law.

To make changes will take a long time.

Thais are like the Ferengi in Star Trek

see a few of The Rules of Acquision:

1. Once you have their money, never give it back

2. You can't cheat an honest customer, but it never hurts to try

3. Never spend more for an acquisition than you have to

4. Sex and profit are the two things that never last long enough

5. If you can't break a contract, bend it

6. Never let family stand in the way of opportunity

7. Always keep you ears open

8. Keep count of your change

9. Instinct plus opportunity equals profit

10. A dead customer can't buy as much as a live one

11. Latinum isn't the only thing that shines

12. Anything worth selling is worth selling twice

13. Anything worth doing is worth doing for money

14. Anything stolen is pure profit

15. Acting stupid is often smart

16. A deal is a deal ... until a better one comes along

17. A bargain usually isn't

18. A Ferengi without profit is no Ferengi at all

19. Don't lie too soon after a promotion

20. When the customer is sweating, turn up the heat

21. Never place friend ship before profit

22. Wise men can hear profit in the wind

23. Never take the last coin, but be sure to get the rest

24. Never ask when you can take

25. Fear makes a good business partner

26. The vast majority of the rich in this galaxy did not inherit their wealth; they stole it

27. The most beautiful thing about a tree is what you do with it after you cut it down

28. Morality is always defined by those in power

29. When someone says "It's not the money," they're lying

283. Rules are always subject to change

284. Rules are always subject to interpretation

285. No good deed ever goes unpunished

[khunPer]

»Comments.......«

Agree...

[AlanAunuum]

AT THE WEEKENDS I SIT IN A LOCAL BAR JUST PASSING THE TIME WITH A FEW LEO'S.THIS BAR IS ON A ONE WAY STREET ( TRAFFIC FROM LEFT TO RIGHT) IF I HAD A LEO FOR EVERY CAR OR MOTOR BIKE THAT WENT UP THE WRONG WAY I WOULD BE PI**ED AS A NEWT. THEY HAVE NO REGARD FOR SAFETY. ONLY LAST FRIDAY AFTERNOON WHILST DRIVING DOWN THERE I WAS MET WITH A CAR COMING THE OPPOSITE WAY WANTING TO TURN DOWN A SIDE STREET BECAUSE IT WAS QUICKER THAT GOING ROUND THE BLOCK.I HAD 2 MOTOR BIKES BEHIND ME AND ALSO 1 CAR AND I DID NOT AND WOULD NOT MOVE TO LET HIM PASS JUST STRTED TO EDGE UP THE STREET. THE ABUSE I GOT WAS USUAL BUT I STOOD MY GROUND AND MADE HIM BACK UP RIGHT TO THE JUNCTION WHERE UPON HE JUST STOPPED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD. I WAS NOT BEING PEDANTIC JUST CORRECT THEY DON'T LIKE IT UP EM

[pendingo]

It's the fatalistic approach to life that governs these type of things

Just like when you see a series of stores, with the identical merchandise, along the side of the road, there are usually a half a dozen or more. When I ask the TG who is the one that sells the most, and her fatalistic answer is always the lucky one sells the most

So the answer is those who get into accidents, or get fined for no helmet, are the ones that are not lucky, simple as that

Absolutely, this seems to be the typical attitude of many Thais (not all as surprise,surprise I've met a few sensible ones, that is by western standards).

They fear loss of face much more than dying and as you say Langsuan their lives are based around luck.

By the way this is not criticism as such it's just my impressions on my travels around Thailand in the last few years.

[timendres]

As my first girlfriend once told me: "To do whatever you want is so Thai"

[GreasyFingers]

The first time I came to Thailand the most pleasant thing was the lack of regulation after living in an industry and world dominated by it. So if you have fears and worries about the system here, keep them to yourself and let the others enjoy the pleasure of being here.

I honestly don't get that. Give me some examples of regulations that bothered you in your home country. And not those regarding prostitution -- I don't mean that as a snide comment, but I understand that many prefer that not to be illegal.

Is it the freedom to drive motorcycles on the pavement you like? The freedom to dump toxic waste in the river? The freedom to release toxic fumes in the air? Seeing "hisos" encroach on national parks?

For me, all the things that are illegal in my home country are things you shouldn't be doing in the first place. So what are these oppressive laws you're escaping? Real question.

As I said before keep your fears and worries to yourself.

[sundrenched]

The first time I came to Thailand the most pleasant thing was the lack of regulation after living in an industry and world dominated by it. So if you have fears and worries about the system here, keep them to yourself and let the others enjoy the pleasure of being here.

I honestly don't get that. Give me some examples of regulations that bothered you in your home country. And not those regarding prostitution -- I don't mean that as a snide comment, but I understand that many prefer that not to be illegal.

Is it the freedom to drive motorcycles on the pavement you like? The freedom to dump toxic waste in the river? The freedom to release toxic fumes in the air? Seeing "hisos" encroach on national parks?

For me, all the things that are illegal in my home country are things you shouldn't be doing in the first place. So what are these oppressive laws you're escaping? Real question.

As I said before keep your fears and worries to yourself.

That's not an answer. What "freedom" is it you want here that you don't have in the West? To run a boiler room? Drink-driving? Being a pimp? That's undoubtedly what some really have in mind, but it's hardly legit.

[laislica]

AT THE WEEKENDS I SIT IN A LOCAL BAR JUST PASSING THE TIME WITH A FEW LEO'S.THIS BAR IS ON A ONE WAY STREET ( TRAFFIC FROM LEFT TO RIGHT) IF I HAD A LEO FOR EVERY CAR OR MOTOR BIKE THAT WENT UP THE WRONG WAY I WOULD BE PI**ED AS A NEWT. THEY HAVE NO REGARD FOR SAFETY. ONLY LAST FRIDAY AFTERNOON WHILST DRIVING DOWN THERE I WAS MET WITH A CAR COMING THE OPPOSITE WAY WANTING TO TURN DOWN A SIDE STREET BECAUSE IT WAS QUICKER THAT GOING ROUND THE BLOCK.I HAD 2 MOTOR BIKES BEHIND ME AND ALSO 1 CAR AND I DID NOT AND WOULD NOT MOVE TO LET HIM PASS JUST STRTED TO EDGE UP THE STREET. THE ABUSE I GOT WAS USUAL BUT I STOOD MY GROUND AND MADE HIM BACK UP RIGHT TO THE JUNCTION WHERE UPON HE JUST STOPPED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD. I WAS NOT BEING PEDANTIC JUST CORRECT THEY DON'T LIKE IT UP EM

Understood but you play a very dangerous game.

Face IS more important than Life, especially someone else's!

[chrissables]

Regarding helmet use, they understand that in reality they don't save lives, so they choose to ignore stupid laws.

Maybe they are not the sheep we have become in the West, and good for them!

[oztaurus]

I read a story here not long ago which referred to an Australian girl who had dies on Koh Phangan in a motorcycle accident, while not wearing a helmet. Her mother has apparently started a campaign to get Thailand to enforce helmet laws, stating that her daughter "would never have done that in Australia" .... but she DID go without a helmet in Thailand, demonstrating that Australia's tough enforcement of helmet laws has not resulted in the education of why they are important, just compliance due to fear.

Please note: I am not in any way trying to diminish the tragedy of the daughter's death.

[Keesters]

Regarding helmet use, they understand that in reality they don't save lives, so they choose to ignore stupid laws.

Maybe they are not the sheep we have become in the West, and good for them!

Helmets don't save lives if you secure them the Thai way which is not secured. In some instances a helmet may not save your life such as when your run over by a train and your legs are severed and you bleed out. But secured properly a helmet can stop you from having on hell of a headache.

[dotpoom]

Keester, if they would get caught everyday without a helmet and had to pay they would change their habits quite quickly. Now its just a minor issue.

Personally I don't care much about the helmet law, its up to the person not wearing one. Though only exception is of course when a car hits them and they die. Then the car gets to blame while a helmet might have saved them. Personally if there was no law that made me wear a helmet i would still wear one.

I must say i find it very irritating when I'm driving to come across people with no helmets. Immediately I think to myself "He/she obviously doesn't care too mush about protecting their own life.....but expect every other road user to take care of it for them".

[sundrenched]

Regarding helmet use, they understand that in reality they don't save lives, so they choose to ignore stupid laws.

Maybe they are not the sheep we have become in the West, and good for them!

Now you're just making stuff up. I'm an experienced motorcyclist (not in Thailand, no thanks) and have read several books on safety driving. Most fatal injuries can be prevented with use of a quality full-faced helmet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_safety

• "And "The data indicates that in 68.7% of all cases, the helmet was capable of preventing or reducing the head injury sustained by the rider (i.e., 33.2% + 35.5%)."
• "Concussion and brain damage, as the head violently contacts other vehicles or objects. Riders wearing an approved helmet reduce the risk of death by 37 percent.^[33]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_findings_in_the_Hurt_Report

• "The use of the safety helmet is the single critical factor in the prevention or reduction of head injury; the safety helmet which complies with FMVSS 218 is a significantly effective injury countermeasure."

Of course, you can think it's all propaganda.

[sundrenched]

Regarding helmet use, they understand that in reality they don't save lives, so they choose to ignore stupid laws.

Maybe they are not the sheep we have become in the West, and good for them!

Helmets don't save lives if you secure them the Thai way which is not secured. In some instances a helmet may not save your life such as when your run over by a train and your legs are severed and you bleed out. But secured properly a helmet can stop you from having on hell of a headache.

Exactly, securing it with the chin strap (which takes literally 2 seconds) is a MUST. Imagine the forces as you get thrown off your bike. Happened to a friend of mine as he skidded and hit a tree, and of course the helmet flew off. He was lucky, but the forces in case of a collision are such that a helmet that is not secured is going to go off on its own flight path almost certainly.

Another thing is having a full-face helmet (i.e., also covering the chin). Google some pics of people who get their face smashed in. You can kiss internet dating goodbye after that. The heat is really no excuse. I rode my motorbike in Singapore for 10 years and never had a problem with heat. You just need some ventilation holes.

Edited January 5, 2015 by sundrenched