Young tourists performing yoga at sacred temple criticised in Thai media

[arrowsdawdle]

Once more.

I am not defending what they did, though I don't really see what they were doing that was so wicked, they aren't actually in a sanctuary.

However I accept some may take offence. If they do they should let the people know. In person. To their face.

Instead they chose to post this picture and slag them off.

Cowards.

I guess we can do this again. You slag them off on line when you know they are on Facebook and easy to contact and that's OK. But it is not OK if they slag someone else off online?

It's two peas in a pod to me. They are slagging someone off after seeing a photo on line and you are slagging someone off after seeing a photo on line.

Not the same at all.

I do not use and will not use FB.

If I saw someone doing something wrong I would say so. To their face. There and then.

I would not take a picture, post it on line and then bitch about their behaviour.

thais shy away from confrontation and you expecting them to react to a situation in the same way you would is arrogant

Thais love confrontation when it is ten against one. And do you not understand the arrogance of assumingThais need you to defend them?

[Jungle Jim]

Not only disrespect but arrogant and just plain creepy.

simply a case of foriengers ''showing off''...loving the attention and it will all be on ''facebook''to show their friends how''cool and shocking they were on their vacation to thailand''....

[Bluespunk]

Read line three of my response. Get me in touch with them and I will.

As for appropriate, this whole campaign is inappropriate.

Started by cowards too scared to politely point out to the tourists what they were doing wrong.

You don't need to be confrontational to do this.

Correct me if I'm wrong but no one at the Wat said anything did they? Wasn't it a cowardly INTERNET warrior much like yourself who saw the photos posted in Facebook and got bent out of shape?

Look on Facebook to get in touch with them. Any one can find them in a minute.

I very much doubt this guy is literate. Thai bashers seldom are.

I'm not literate am I? Really, please point out where that conclusion is drawn from. Though please don't use any big words.

Thai bashing? Where do you get that from? I'm condemning a type of behaviour I see as being vicious, on a par with those snide gossips found everywhere. At no point do I say this a Thai behaviour.

It's worldwide. It's nasty. It's contemptible.

[MobileContent]

In our Wat you have the drunks and Yaba guys. Monks permitting the villages to drink at their premises Lao Khao and villagers are able to come in very short skirts and pants.

What those tourists did is certainly wrong and inappropriate but not all tourists knew what is permitted and what not.

I have been visiting farangs in Europe and they even had a Buddha statue in the toilet. When I said this is not appropriate they said who cares. Its our toilet and our Buddha.

[binjalin]

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Another example of an overreaction by a Thai. alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

At least a monk isn't slapping them, they are not drunk and are not in a bikini. alt=blink.png>

They're showing disrespect for the customs of that particular place. If they were to try that in a Church they'd be shown the door.

This is Thailand incase you conveniently forgot, don't like their reactions then go back to your nation of birth.

"in a church" this is not "in a temple" get it? if it was "in a temple" my reaction would be different and if you know this temple you will know the layout and this is in the grounds and the monks are quite capable of saying something if they are "offended"

stop being so damn "righteous and pompous and more Thai than the Thais" this is just Thais being xenophobic, as usual, and they don't need farangs joining in the witchhunt.

Hope these kids move on from their GRAVE SIN and enjoy the rest of their sojourn.

So because my opinion differs from yours I'm righteous and pompous? You're the type of farang that the Thais don't want or respect. Keep that obnoxious attitude and you'll likely come a cropper.

and you are the type they DO want and respect? that's not righteous and pompous? what right have YOU to rail at these kids? they are in the GROUNDS not the actual temple you fool so get off your high horse

[kieran2698]

At the risk of being roundly abused here, I simply for the life of me cannot see what is wrong in that photo. It isn't like they are smoking crack or doing rudies or anything?

Have you ever been to a Wat? Have you ever seen anyone doing anything like that at all or even close? How many times have you been in an Anglican church and seen people performing yoga and taking pictures?

They are in the grounds of the temple not in it, who has not seen people doing things like this in the grounds of a church? Where I come from the church ground is a popular place to hang out in the summer and is full of young people doing things like yoga, very normal behavior in parts of the UK.

Now, if you have been to India, have you ever seen people doing yoga at a Wat? I certainly have, not women though, and I fear that is the only issue here.

the grounds are part of the temple. everything inside the boundary is the wat.

Technically, the temple is a part of the Wat.

[Neeranam]

sider this (exhibitionist?) display inappropriate. [Yes - it's not 'hugging' per se, but there's clearly extended physical contact going on ... or do temples now have to post 'no cooperative-yoga' signs?]

I have noticed the sign says "no pets" so look at this (and believe it's that way in most temples)

you know why are dogs allowed there? It's not really inside the temple but the outside grounds area just like those 2 were.

You think they're pets?

[And what do you think might happen if Mr and Ms Hi-So Thai bring their little poodle with them when these temple dogs are about? By way of comparison: I might have a restaurant and own a pet dog, but that doesn't mean I want my customers bringing their dogs in with them.]

The point is that monks chase away dogs if they attempt to enter the temple but they are allowed in that area. Also people don't have to take off shoes outside there, which clearly goes to show there is a difference.

Of course I am not saying that those kids were right, what I am saying is:

1. Thai should not expect foreigners to be informed of every custom especially since the area was not directly the place of worshiping.

2. Someone should have explained them, that's what I would have done if I was offended, not take pictures.

3. this was blown out of proportions because the govt is trying to push a wave of conservative restoration thru the country.

Thailand is a country that depends on tourism and because of it they are required to be more tolerant and possibly help foreigners understand when they are doing something offensive to them.

Many people take unwanted dogs and let them loose near the temple as they know the compassionate monks will look after them.

1. Every foreigner entering Thailand should know of a few simple cultural offensives.

2, By taking pictures, the message has gotten to a lot more foreigners.

3. Nothing to do with the government

Are you seriously saying that Thais don't show a high level of tolerance to foreigners? I remember seeing a tuk tuk driver taking a couple of foreigners where the feet were stretched up near his head - this is really showing tolerance for a Thai person. I can understand a bit as he was probably charging them 10 times the real price,

As much as you criticize Thailand and are only here for the money, you really can't say that Thais are intolerant to foreigners' behavior.

[Globeman]

What country is Yoga, The Kama Sutra and Lord Gautama Buddha from?

Just sayin'...

In what country do people go shirtless into houses of worship? Besides, that isn't yoga, those are cheerleading exercises.

I'm not a big supporter of organized religion of any sort, and wish the world would move on from such hocus pocus fantasies, BUT... I do respect their right to expect some sense of propriety in the places where they choose to practice their faith - and are good enough to allow visitors to come.

It would have been a good thing if a monk or some other person approached them at the time and told them that what they were doing was offensive... but then there may not have been someone around with sufficient English skills.

It has always been a problem with newly-of-age young folks, of course. They are technically adults and free to roam without parents and tend to treat the world as their brand new playground. With this attitude and lack of experience, they are going to do some offensive things.

However, last year in Florence, I saw a small group of middle-aged Thais yakking and laughing away loudly in a Cathedral, snapping selfies and generally behaving obnoxiously. This doesn't make the Thai papers of course. I said "good day, excuse me" in Thai, and gently 'shushed' them. That soon quieted them down - mostly, I'd imagine, out of shock that some random Farang in Italy knew the Thai language. (Fooled 'em - that's about all I know how to say!)

[DM07]

Thai get offended by a company in the Netherlands, printing Buddhas on the OUTSIDE of portable loos!

Thais are offended by a Japanese punkrocker, wearing a saffron robe!

Thais are offended by this, Thais are offended by that!

Tell a Thai that you are offended by something they did and they are offended by that, too!

Time to grow up and grow a pair!

If you are offended, by what these guys did (Yoga...outside of the temple...) go and TELL them.

Otherwise, I stick with Stephen Fry:

"'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so &lt;deleted&gt; what?'

[kieran2698]

They are in the grounds of the temple not in it, who has not seen people doing things like this in the grounds of a church? Where I come from the church ground is a popular place to hang out in the summer and is full of young people doing things like yoga, very normal behavior in parts of the UK.

Now, if you have been to India, have you ever seen people doing yoga at a Wat? I certainly have, not women though, and I fear that is the only issue here.

the grounds are part of the temple. everything inside the boundary is the wat.

You got that wrong. The Wat and the grounds ARE the temple. Each building has a specific purpose and name (Viharn, Bot etc.). There is no building called a Wat. By the looks it is outside the boundary of what are the temple grounds as the wall is slightly further on. The historic Buddha was a student of Yogi's and Yoga. Fundamentalist nonsense. Yes, they could have worn more clothes. Anyone seeking more behind a Yoga posture which involves spread legs should probably seek professional help. It's judgmental ideas like these that are so not Buddhist.

The Wat is the whole lot, the grounds and all the buildings inside of it, Chaidei are the only true temples within a Wat.

[rebelplatoon]

You got that wrong. The Wat and the grounds ARE the temple. Each building has a specific purpose and name (Viharn, Bot etc.). There is no building called a Wat. By the looks it is outside the boundary of what are the temple grounds as the wall is slightly further on. The historic Buddha was a student of Yogi's and Yoga. Fundamentalist nonsense. Yes, they could have worn more clothes. Anyone seeking more behind a Yoga posture which involves spread legs should probably seek professional help. It's judgmental ideas like these that are so not Buddhist.

nonsense, that small railing is not the boundary fence of the wat! and i SAID the grounds are part of the temple and the thai word for temple is wat!

Yes I have been there. This part (where they are practicing) is just outside the burial ground. These are not Chedis or Stupa's but simple ash containers. The little fence is the perimeter of this temple although in recent years they have put up an extra wall to secure land as it was being encroached upon.

Please after 32 years here do not explain what the Thai word for Wat means. A Wat (as confirmed to me when I visited the Somdej) is a group of buildings that have been granted the title of Wat. Temple in itself would refer to a place of worship. The places of worship are within the boundary stones. I still remain that the man could have worn a t shirt but anyone reading more into it than couple Yoga has a dirty mind. Stop the fundamentalists in every religion, PLEASE. Each its own.

[45slap]

The man is shirtless, too. Is this appropriate behavior at the Vatican? Common sense tells one it is not polite.

[AYJAYDEE]

Technically, the temple is a part of the Wat.

not true. the temple is the wat

[Jungle Jim]

Just your very typical stupid arrogant foreigner in Thailand. "I will do anything i please anywhere and screw the Thais and their culture " or "Thais who are they ?" "I came here to party and play with girls" "The Thais are just the stupid poor people who clean up my mess everyday" "Party Hard Full Moon Party Forever" That is sadly what Thailand attracts most and i think the Thais have finally had enough of our rude, crude, and dress like slobs behavior. Anyone who thinks otherwise perhaps you should seriously consider heading home because payback time is coming soon. Any ideas as to why the sudden increase in crime lately ? Maybe it's us.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Jungle Jim

[binjalin]

The man is shirtless, too. Is this appropriate behavior at the Vatican? Common sense tells one it is not polite.

Agreed he should have been wearing a shirt but I see far worse and this is a total over-reaction and vilifying these two is outrageous. Talk about using a sledgehammer to crack a nut! Jeeze

[AYJAYDEE]

You got that wrong. The Wat and the grounds ARE the temple. Each building has a specific purpose and name (Viharn, Bot etc.). There is no building called a Wat. By the looks it is outside the boundary of what are the temple grounds as the wall is slightly further on. The historic Buddha was a student of Yogi's and Yoga. Fundamentalist nonsense. Yes, they could have worn more clothes. Anyone seeking more behind a Yoga posture which involves spread legs should probably seek professional help. It's judgmental ideas like these that are so not Buddhist.

nonsense, that small railing is not the boundary fence of the wat! and i SAID the grounds are part of the temple and the thai word for temple is wat!

Yes I have been there. This part (where they are practicing) is just outside the burial ground. These are not Chedis or Stupa's but simple ash containers. The little fence is the perimeter of this temple although in recent years they have put up an extra wall to secure land as it was being encroached upon.

Please after 32 years here do not explain what the Thai word for Wat means. A Wat (as confirmed to me when I visited the Somdej) is a group of buildings that have been granted the title of Wat. Temple in itself would refer to a place of worship. The places of worship are within the boundary stones. I still remain that the man could have worn a t shirt but anyone reading more into it than couple Yoga has a dirty mind. Stop the fundamentalists in every religion, PLEASE. Each its own.

forget the "I been here longer than you stuff"! Temple is not a thai word. This is a wat and they are inside it. and they are being rude. period.

[Neeranam]

Thai get offended by a company in the Netherlands, printing Buddhas on the OUTSIDE of portable loos!

Thais are offended by a Japanese punkrocker, wearing a saffron robe!

Thais are offended by this, Thais are offended by that!

Tell a Thai that you are offended by something they did and they are offended by that, too!

Time to grow up and grow a pair!

If you are offended, by what these guys did (Yoga...outside of the temple...) go and TELL them.

Otherwise, I stick with Stephen Fry:

"'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so <deleted> what?'

All Buddhists would find that offensive

Look at the outrage from some idiot foreigners when a few schoolkids dressed up as Hitler. The Israeli Embassy even got involved I think.

.I've gone up to two Thai people and told them that I was offended as they were wearing the sex pistols "God save the Queen"t-shirt. One didn't give a toss but the middle aged woman was very embarrassed. Another young guy who was wearing an anarchy sign was shocked when I told him what an anarchist believes.

[facthailand]

NOT YOGA! (Which might be fine in a secluded area of any temple anywhere, on the grass, in the shade.)

This is rather exhibitionist gymnastics (yes, i do remember being young and fit!), done in the hot sun, on the concrete. Perhaps this couple just felt inspired!

SO WAT?!? Grow a skin, already!

Edited January 6, 2015 by facthailand

[thhMan]

Buddhism when it suits them...

Ive been to temples and its a tinnea infested workout

As for the rest of the time, flouting laws and inaction to do diddly squat about being "done" by their police, govt officials and anyone else with some form of power.

Perhaps they should direct their anger inwards and fix their own problems instead of watching how "free" and "loving life" farangs are

[Bluespunk]

The man is shirtless, too. Is this appropriate behavior at the Vatican? Common sense tells one it is not polite.

What? Like this?

http://m.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-topless-act-shocks-vatican/20101216.htm

[AYJAYDEE]

Why would it be confrontational?

Are you saying Thais are incapable of politely pointing out inappropriate behaviour or getting someone with authority to do so for them?

If so, we have had very different experiences in Thailand.

apparently so

[JohnThailandJohn]

Thai get offended by a company in the Netherlands, printing Buddhas on the OUTSIDE of portable loos!

Thais are offended by a Japanese punkrocker, wearing a saffron robe!

Thais are offended by this, Thais are offended by that!

Tell a Thai that you are offended by something they did and they are offended by that, too!

Time to grow up and grow a pair!

If you are offended, by what these guys did (Yoga...outside of the temple...) go and TELL them.

Otherwise, I stick with Stephen Fry:

"'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so <deleted> what?'

You appear very offended by what some other people (Thais) feel and express online. Maybe you should go and tell them instead of whining online .... which is an action that seems to offend you ... or take your own advise.

Edited January 6, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[Eirene]

It has been listed that what these persons are performing yoga. I would say the pose is more akin to either aerobic,acrobatic or gymnastic positions, as yoga has thousand of positions but only performed in specific positions by an individual, not by a couple.

Why is it if some one criticises persons for acting inappropriately or dressing inadequately at a Temple that the PC brigade crawls our from under their rocks and defend these two by alleging people are farang bashing? You rush to your excuse book to provide reasons why they should not be criticized. Give me a reason why they should be praised?

Oh I forgot, it has been suggested that their performance is outside the temple so it's ok and some have gone to the extent of alleging vilification or playing the racist card, over reacting, the monks are worse, etc., etc. Why is it that if you are living here are you so vitriolic towards the country and it's people, when one would expect to show some respect for your host country. But I guess, not many of you know the meaning of the word, respect, so why should the younger generation be any different.

This is the star position in acroyoga.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acroyoga

[Nakajima]

sider this (exhibitionist?) display inappropriate. [Yes - it's not 'hugging' per se, but there's clearly extended physical contact going on ... or do temples now have to post 'no cooperative-yoga' signs?]

I have noticed the sign says "no pets" so look at this (and believe it's that way in most temples)

you know why are dogs allowed there? It's not really inside the temple but the outside grounds area just like those 2 were.

You think they're pets?

[And what do you think might happen if Mr and Ms Hi-So Thai bring their little poodle with them when these temple dogs are about? By way of comparison: I might have a restaurant and own a pet dog, but that doesn't mean I want my customers bringing their dogs in with them.]

The point is that monks chase away dogs if they attempt to enter the temple but they are allowed in that area. Also people don't have to take off shoes outside there, which clearly goes to show there is a difference.

Of course I am not saying that those kids were right, what I am saying is:

1. Thai should not expect foreigners to be informed of every custom especially since the area was not directly the place of worshiping.

2. Someone should have explained them, that's what I would have done if I was offended, not take pictures.

3. this was blown out of proportions because the govt is trying to push a wave of conservative restoration thru the country.

Thailand is a country that depends on tourism and because of it they are required to be more tolerant and possibly help foreigners understand when they are doing something offensive to them.

Many people take unwanted dogs and let them loose near the temple as they know the compassionate monks will look after them.

1. Every foreigner entering Thailand should know of a few simple cultural offensives.

2, By taking pictures, the message has gotten to a lot more foreigners.

3. Nothing to do with the government

Are you seriously saying that Thais don't show a high level of tolerance to foreigners? I remember seeing a tuk tuk driver taking a couple of foreigners where the feet were stretched up near his head - this is really showing tolerance for a Thai person. I can understand a bit as he was probably charging them 10 times the real price,

As much as you criticize Thailand and are only here for the money, you really can't say that Thais are intolerant to foreigners' behavior.

1. should but if they don't it's not a crime and it should be up to the nice people of Thailand to explain if indeed they are so kind.

2. Disagree, of all of my Thai Facebook friends not one shared or commented or even knew about this topic, I read it here first so I also do not believe posting on social media will reach tourists that are coming here. I also do not think the point should be reaching foreigners but explaining the situation in that moment.

3. Nothing to do with the government, but everything with its ultra nationalistic xenophobic propaganda that is convincing many to be much more sensitive to be offended than they previously were.

I know not all Thai are intolerant, infact most of my Thai friend understand that foreigners are different and they should be given some break especially because they support the country tourism. But there are a lot of Thai that are very intolerant to anything foreign especially Westerner and I believe the person who started this is one of them.

I also would like to repeat AGAIN that criticizing something about Thai society and behavior does not mean criticizing Thailand as a whole. I also am very critic of many other countries including my own but this forum is about Thailand would not make much sense to start writing about Europe or US.

[AYJAYDEE]

1. should but if they don't it's not a crime and it should be up to the nice people of Thailand to explain if indeed they are so kind.

2. Disagree, of all of my Thai Facebook friends not one shared or commented or even knew about this topic, I read it here first so I also do not believe posting on social media will reach tourists that are coming here. I also do not think the point should be reaching foreigners but explaining the situation in that moment.

3. Nothing to do with the government, but everything with its ultra nationalistic xenophobic propaganda that is convincing many to be much more sensitive to be offended than they previously were.

I know not all Thai are intolerant, infact most of my Thai friend understand that foreigners are different and they should be given some break especially because they support the country tourism. But there are a lot of Thai that are very intolerant to anything foreign especially Westerner and I believe the person who started this is one of them.

I also would like to repeat AGAIN that criticizing something about Thai society and behavior does not mean criticizing Thailand as a whole. I also am very critic of many other countries including my own but this forum is about Thailand would not make much sense to start writing about Europe or US.

he said foreign facebookers not thai.. and its not up to you to decide if the thai in question is being xenophobic or not. he or she was offended as I would be if I saw it and thats the point. no its not a crime and thats why there was no prosecution.

[Nakajima]

Thai get offended by a company in the Netherlands, printing Buddhas on the OUTSIDE of portable loos!

Thais are offended by a Japanese punkrocker, wearing a saffron robe!

Thais are offended by this, Thais are offended by that!

Tell a Thai that you are offended by something they did and they are offended by that, too!

Time to grow up and grow a pair!

If you are offended, by what these guys did (Yoga...outside of the temple...) go and TELL them.

Otherwise, I stick with Stephen Fry:

"'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so <deleted> what?'

All Buddhists would find that offensive

Look at the outrage from some idiot foreigners when a few schoolkids dressed up as Hitler. The Israeli Embassy even got involved I think.

.I've gone up to two Thai people and told them that I was offended as they were wearing the sex pistols "God save the Queen"t-shirt. One didn't give a toss but the middle aged woman was very embarrassed. Another young guy who was wearing an anarchy sign was shocked when I told him what an anarchist believes.

are we comparing a madman killing millions of people with 2 kids exercising near a temple or someone wearing a t-shirt? really?

[jamiesilver]

Perhaps the Thais need a history lesson. Buddha wasnt thai he was indian - and im sure didnt give a flying &lt;deleted&gt; about Yoga, infact he practiced it himself.
Much better than buying lottery tickets or going to the temple to get a lucky number from a monk. just so they can benefit themselves.

[Nakajima]

1. should but if they don't it's not a crime and it should be up to the nice people of Thailand to explain if indeed they are so kind.

2. Disagree, of all of my Thai Facebook friends not one shared or commented or even knew about this topic, I read it here first so I also do not believe posting on social media will reach tourists that are coming here. I also do not think the point should be reaching foreigners but explaining the situation in that moment.

3. Nothing to do with the government, but everything with its ultra nationalistic xenophobic propaganda that is convincing many to be much more sensitive to be offended than they previously were.

I know not all Thai are intolerant, infact most of my Thai friend understand that foreigners are different and they should be given some break especially because they support the country tourism. But there are a lot of Thai that are very intolerant to anything foreign especially Westerner and I believe the person who started this is one of them.

I also would like to repeat AGAIN that criticizing something about Thai society and behavior does not mean criticizing Thailand as a whole. I also am very critic of many other countries including my own but this forum is about Thailand would not make much sense to start writing about Europe or US.

he said foreign facebookers not thai.. and its not up to you to decide if the thai in question is being xenophobic or not. he or she was offended as I would be if I saw it and thats the point. no its not a crime and thats why there was no prosecution.

right because it is likely the post was made in English so that foreigners understands it. No it's not up to me, have you seen the Facebook post? I did, they are a bunch of coup lovers, "12 values" worshipers, anti democracy trolls.

I say it again: please verify your facts before posting, only fools try to argue something they know nothing about.

Let me guess: you also don't use Facebook?

[Thakkar]

Internet outrage is a "thing" these days. It might make people feel superior, or a way to get their otherwise static blood rushing when sitting for hours in front of a computer. I don't know.

Were these foreigners behaving kind of inappropriately? I guess. Is there any malice? I think not at all. They're in The East, at a courtyard of an Eastern Temple. Yoga is from The East. Yoga is associated with Eastern spirituality and religion. They probably think what they're doing is perfectly appropriate.

Instead of all this manufactured outrage, it would have been better to simply go up to them and politely inform them that yoga and Buddhism are not analogous and that a temple courtyard is not the right place for such an exercise. Even better would've been to just ignore them.

T

[thailandusauk]

Love these yoga pants <3