England.

[JetsetBkk]

Where, for example, is there a goalkeeper that can provide stability at the back? Will it be back to Robinson and James? Or does Carson another chance?

If James had been playing he certainly wouldn't have let in the first goal. As for the second, Carson didn't appear to want to get his nice yellow shirt dirty.

Goalies of national teams shouldn't be new or young. They should be reliable old gits like James who would give the defenders a bit of confidence. They don't have to be the quickest goalies in the game, just steady and reliable. Carson was neither.

[marshbags]

Last Updated: Friday, 23 November 2007, 14:46 GMT

Anthem gaffe 'lifted Croatia'

By Frank Keogh

If I have offended any Croatians, they have my deepest apologies

Singer Tony Henry

Croatia rose to the occasion in their crucial Euro 2008 defeat of England - after an apparent X-rated gaffe by an English opera singer at Wembley.

Tony Henry belted out a version of the Croat anthem before the 80,000 crowd, but made a blunder at the end.

He should have sung 'Mila kuda si planina' (which roughly means 'You know my dear how we love your mountains').

But he instead sang 'Mila kura si planina' which can be interpreted as 'My dear, my penis is a mountain'.

Replay: Croatia anthem singer's mistake

Now Henry could be one of the few Englishmen at the Euro 2008 finals in Austria and Switzerland as Croatian fans adopt him as a lucky omen.

They believe his mistake relaxed their chuckling players, who scored an early goal in the 3-2 win that put Croatia top of the group and knocked out England.

The singer, who hails from St Albans in Hertfordshire but now lives in Inverness, Scotland, has performed at stadiums around the world.

He was once known as the Voice of Arsenal after Gunners fans were impressed with his rendition of Abide with Me before the FA Cup final in 2003 at the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff.

Henry came unstuck when he sung Lijepa Nasa Domovino (Our Beautiful Homeland) at a rain-swept Wembley on Wednesday night.

"I can't even defend myself at the end of the day. It was apparently the last line on the second verse which I made the mistake on," he told BBC Radio 5 Live.

"Coming to Wembley and the stadium, it must have got to me, is all I can say.

"It was the last thing that I would intentionally do, and all I can say is if I have offended any Croatians, then they have my deepest apologies."

The Croatians have invited him to sing at Euro 2008

Henry's agent Douglas Gillespie

On the contrary, Henry is becoming a cult hero in Croatia, but denies he played a part in England's exit.

"I can't take the blame for that. The last thing I would do is brag about my parts like that - especially to make it so public," said Henry.

BBC TV presenter Adrian Chiles, whose mother is Croatian, acknowledged the language could pose problems.

"As a speaker of poor Croatian, I have a proud record of getting things calamitously wrong," said the Match of the Day 2 host.

"My personal best was telling a campsite owner that I had a small rat (mali stakor) rather than small tent (mali shator). However, Tony's put all my lifetime's efforts into the shade now."

Zeljka Tomljenovic, secretary of the British-Croatian Society, added: "I don't envy the guy at all because the pronunciation is so difficult.

"He had a big challenge, to sing the national anthem in a language he knows, I assume, nothing about."

Henry's agent Douglas Gillespie said it was a genuine mistake, but admitted the publicity could boost his career.

"He's been given the lyrics correctly, but he has enough trouble with English, never mind Croatian," joked Gillespie.

"There were 80,000 people in the crowd and millions of people watching. It was just the pressure of the moment.

"He did sing it very well and made a very, very small mistake for someone doing his best and singing in a language that is alien to him. If you've ever tried to speak Croatian, it's very difficult.

"The Croatians think it's great, and they've invited him to come over and sing at Euro 2008, and asked if he will be their mascot."

ref.url http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/7109058.stm

marshbags

[mrbojangles]

Where, for example, is there a goalkeeper that can provide stability at the back? Will it be back to Robinson and James? Or does Carson another chance?

If James had been playing he certainly wouldn't have let in the first goal. As for the second, Carson didn't appear to want to get his nice yellow shirt dirty.

Goalies of national teams shouldn't be new or young. They should be reliable old gits like James who would give the defenders a bit of confidence. They don't have to be the quickest goalies in the game, just steady and reliable. Carson was neither.

Couldn't agree more Jetset

[JacknDanny]

If Gerrard played as well as he talked before England games we would never lose. Same can be said for Jon Terry and Rio Ferdinand. I'd wish they would put up or shut up.

In the end, McClaren is only as good as the payers perform, but some of his tactics last night were so <deleted> naive and foolish he deserves all the flack he's getting, and I hope some of the players get some as well. Time for them to knickle down and prove to the country that they are as good as they say they are, and that means showing class in International games, not against the likes of Wigan, Derby or Sunderland.

I actually like Gerard, and it will be interesting to see how he plays against Newcastle. If I was a betting man , I would say he will be a contender for man of the match. If I am right, it begs the question Why???

How come these guys cannot turn club form into England form. My personal opinion is that money has spoiled the game. There is now far more importance playing for your club than playing for England. I saw neither Lampard (pants anyway) or Gerard make a tackle in anger against Croatia. Just watch them on Saturday!!

I did post something similar on my thoughts as to why on the Liverpool thread

I've been thinking about the motivational aspect of pulling on an England shirt if your the likes of Gerrard , Lampard , Rooney, Joe and Ashely Cole , Ferdinand , Terry and the rest of them. While they are playing for their respective clubs they are adored every week by their fans and are used to winning major trophies and playing at the top level against the best players in the world .

Now compare that to when they play for England , playing needless friendlies , the fans booing you , the media slating you , playing with players from your rivals , the threat of getting injured and the rest of it .

It's no wonder sometimes that you see players putting in uncharacteristic performances for England. All the players always say the right thing in front of the cameras though but then again they haven't really got much choice have they .

To finish , none of the current England squad were even born the last ( and only ) time we won something so you can understand to some extent why their performances differ sometimes for club and country

I knew it!!!!!

Stevie G scores 1 makes 2, runs the show, M.O.M, despite being booed throughout by so called fans.

I hear what you say scousemouse, but I put it down to team spirit or complete lack of it under McClown.

That and the fear of getting injured for a lost cause when nobody around you gives a flying f###!

Despite what other people have said Gerard is world class. Shame on McClown for not even getting 50% out of him

[Jockstar]

I've copied and pasted this from another forum. Discuss!

England - We Are Wrong

I just heard the most sensible analysis of the state of English football and suddenly my eyes are open. Gab Marcotti was the man giving the opinion and he basically states that the main problem we have is perception.

Firstly we have an inflated perception of ourselves, and at the same time we always understate the opposition. We think we're up there with Germany, Brazil or Italy. And we think Teams like Russia, Croatia and Israel are at least one, if not two or three tiers below us. We're not that good, and they aren't that bad. What's more accurate is that we are on a par with the Sweden's and Denmark's of this world, and so, in fact, are Russia, Croatia and Israel. It's an even thing. How do we know this? Results do not lie.

Why do we perceive things this way? The typically English way of analysing other international teams is to judge them by the quality of their domesticleague. No one else does this. So why do we? The simple reason is because the English media and the English fan have convinced themselves that the Premier League is a representation of how England should play. Hence the repeated questioning as to why England play long-ball brainless football instead of the beautiful fast aggressive style of Man Utd and Arsenal. The reason Arsenal and Manure play this way is because they have 20 of the best players from around the world playing for some of the best managers and coaches from around the world. Therefore asking why Gerrard and Lampard don't play for England like they do for their clubs is easy to answer - they are surrounded by players who are at least as good, but most likely better than they are. For some reason we have convinced ourselves that the best teams that money can buy play the English way. This is clearly nonsense - simply look at how england have played for the last 20 years. Not once have they ever played the passing game like Arsenal, counter attack play like Manure, or even the tactical by-the-odds game of Chelsea or Liverpool.

This is not to say English players are bad. Not at all - but any system that England play is not going to be familiar to the players based on their skill sets. On the other hand look at Croatia. English fans and media saw (and still see amazingly) Croatia as a second tier international team that we should be beating. This is because their domestic league is poorer than ours, and thier players play all over the world and never together. Herein lies the simple reason why Brazil and Argentina are the two best teams in world football - their international players only play for the best teams, with the best players, under the best coaches and managers the game has to offer. Croatia fit this analysis too - all their players play around Europe for high level teams. This means they can adapt to the style and system of the fast-flowing passing of the Premiership and La Liga, or tactical play such as in Italy and Germany.

England have no players plying their trade in Europe. None. If the reflexive reaction was to curb the amount of foreign players the Premier League would quickly become.......like the England team. Marcotti's saving point is that the England team can play like the did against Germany 6 years ago. Or against Argentina at the World Cup.

But the point of the analysis is we aren't achieving what we think we should because we are wrong in the first place. We will not play like Arsenal or Manure - we don't have the players. And England are not better than Croatia, Russia or Israel. There are no results, no tradition and no trends that show that England should be winning anything. The patter nshows that when England are mentioned in the same breath as Denmark, Sweden or Greece, we should consider ourselves of that level. In a strange way Sven was right - he had to play the way he did because tha tensured England would get to the quarter-final stages.

The difference we have is that we can play at a higher level - we can utilise the Premier League to improve our own team. We need a real manager, a proper coach. Someone with the tactical ability of a Guus Hiddink who can show English players how to use more than one system and move off the ball. Or organised tactical nous like Marcello Lippi and Fabio Cappello who can drill a system into players so that Gerrard and Rooney won't wander out of position so much for England. We need a motivator like Klinsmann to convince the players that they don't have to play like Brazil to beat Brazil, and that we have our own strengths that other national teams would pay good money for. Quite simply, we need a good manager. Not a make-do no history of winning manager. McClaren was dire because he always has been. Sven was tactically rigid and boring because he always has been. Keegan was tactically niave because he always has been. None of them have ever won anything of note. Hoddle managed to motivate, inspire and get a system but we ran him out of the game.

So Marcotti warns that we are already getting reayd to shoot oursleves again - now that O'Niell and Mourinho don't want it the English press are saying good things about Harry Redknapp and Alan Shearer! Neither has achieved anything - not one medal between them. Nice guys, popular with many, but exactly the opposite of what is needed. It's astonishing that on the day Cappello says he's interested English football commentators argue that he might not work because, yes he is the most successful manager in world football at present, but that doesn't mean he can perform at international level. At the same time they are talking up Harry Redknapp as of equal comparison because he has dragged Portsmouth to 7th in the Premier League.

I'm with Marcotti - let's get Cappello and let's find a new style of playing.

[Suszzy]

Jurgen kinsmann is top candidate for England job..!

From the mail on sunday.

What do you guys think?

yes or no.....!!

[scousemouse]

I've just read that the F.A. has approached Bernd Schuster , the current Real Madrid manager , regarding the vacant manager position.

It seems for certain that O'Neil and Mourinho have definetley said no and Shearer is not ready for the job.

Whoever gets the job has got a few tough tears ahead ......... and must be desperate for a job which leads to to believe that Fabio Capello will be the next England boss.

[scousemouse]

Please close this one aswell JS .

For those who want to p1ss and moan about England , have the balls to do it on the England thread .

[Jockstar]

Please close this one aswell JS .

For those who want to p1ss and moan about England , have the balls to do it on the England thread .

Just merged all the <deleted> together.

[scousemouse]

Please close this one aswell JS .

For those who want to p1ss and moan about England , have the balls to do it on the England thread .

Just merged all the <deleted> together.

The power of the mod

[mrbojangles]

Please close this one aswell JS .

For those who want to p1ss and moan about England , have the balls to do it on the England thread .

Just merged all the <deleted> together.

The power of the mod

Can we close this one as well

If we go seriously off topic, threads usually get closed.

They've started collecting our rubbish bins every two weeks now and talking about about charging by the weight.

How much do you recycle

[marshbags]

If Gerrard played as well as he talked before England games we would never lose. Same can be said for Jon Terry and Rio Ferdinand. I'd wish they would put up or shut up.

In the end, McClaren is only as good as the payers perform, but some of his tactics last night were so <deleted> naive and foolish he deserves all the flack he's getting, and I hope some of the players get some as well. Time for them to knickle down and prove to the country that they are as good as they say they are, and that means showing class in International games, not against the likes of Wigan, Derby or Sunderland.

I actually like Gerard, and it will be interesting to see how he plays against Newcastle. If I was a betting man , I would say he will be a contender for man of the match. If I am right, it begs the question Why???

How come these guys cannot turn club form into England form. My personal opinion is that money has spoiled the game. There is now far more importance playing for your club than playing for England. I saw neither Lampard (pants anyway) or Gerard make a tackle in anger against Croatia. Just watch them on Saturday!!

I did post something similar on my thoughts as to why on the Liverpool thread

I've been thinking about the motivational aspect of pulling on an England shirt if your the likes of Gerrard , Lampard , Rooney, Joe and Ashely Cole , Ferdinand , Terry and the rest of them. While they are playing for their respective clubs they are adored every week by their fans and are used to winning major trophies and playing at the top level against the best players in the world .

Now compare that to when they play for England , playing needless friendlies , the fans booing you , the media slating you , playing with players from your rivals , the threat of getting injured and the rest of it .

It's no wonder sometimes that you see players putting in uncharacteristic performances for England. All the players always say the right thing in front of the cameras though but then again they haven't really got much choice have they .

To finish , none of the current England squad were even born the last ( and only ) time we won something so you can understand to some extent why their performances differ sometimes for club and country

S.Mouse

I noted your remarks relating to contributors of the latest merging of the Euro thread and saying, and i quote you:-

For those who want to p1ss and moan about England , have the balls to do it on the England thread

I think as you keep having a go then we are entitled to come back at you and reply in kind.

Posters were responding to a particular thread relating to the shameful and pathetic display by the England team.

It has nothing to do with balls and your repeated comments and snide remarks about posters choosing as and when they wish to comment on any patricular topic. ( Not only football, just to expand my thoughts )

This is the given right of ALL Thai Visa members and in particular if they are stating the truth and are being factual on the threads aims, not being disruptive or automatically being classed in a derogratory manner.

The above post you have offered as an excuse for the so called professionals takes the biscuit when eluding from truth and reality and spoken like a parent sticking up for her spoiled child and unable / refusing to see the truth.

An extension of the word balls is appropriate to put it in context.

Perhaps the next time you are in the U.K. you should go to the local park and observe the way the unpaid, non professional players do it and note their spirit of wanting to win.

This may remind you of what attitude, desire and having the will to win and managing to play for each other as a team, even though some will never have played together before, nor be familiar with each others style of play.

They do it by the way for the pure love of the game of football and do no need the over inflated rewards that go with being a paid professional to motivate them to play, let alone trophies.

It is attitudes like yours that could just maybe putting regular imput that you sarcastically go on about, from the stay away commentators.

Since when by the way do you need balls to post remarks on a thread when you are protected by anonymity.

Nothing personal, just my opinion as a non regular contributor, who incidently has followed and supported football from the local parks to the highest level over fifty odd years.

As J.S rightly says in his reference to <deleted>, unless you allow free expression and comment that then surely is all this thread amounts to is ****, along with selective imput.

Go and pick your pacifier up, there,s a good boy.

To finish , D

I thought football was a mans game, played by men with a desire, the balls and in this case the experience to achieve a result.

It,s a good job you haven,t had the pleasure of visiting my local and heard the piss taking and non complimentary observations on the failure to qualify. ( To a man / woman 100 %)

marshbags

P.S.

I tend to spend what time i have on the various threads that i consider worthwhile and only tend to respond in this forum when i think it is important to offer my view, nothing more, nothing less.

As Mr B says, the footy thread is a great addition to T.Visa and well supported, if everyone had an attitude in general like his

( not all the time, as situations and banter sometimes determine otherwise )

then this forum would get even more support from within the T.Visa membership.

IMHO of course.

Edited November 25, 2007 by marshbags

[mrbojangles]

I tend to spend what time i have on the various threads that i consider worthwhile and only tend to respond in this forum when i think it is important to offer my view, nothing more, nothing less.

As Mr B says, the footy thread is a great addition to T.Visa and well supported, if everyone had an attitude in general like his

( not all the time, as situations and banter sometimes determine otherwise )

then this forum would get even more support from within the T.Visa membership.

IMHO of course.

Thanks for the kind words Marshbags,

Come and introduce yourself in here, it always helps when we know who posters support and what angle they are coming from http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...54842&st=25

[scousemouse]

.

I did post something similar on my thoughts as to why on the Liverpool thread

I've been thinking about the motivational aspect of pulling on an England shirt if your the likes of Gerrard , Lampard , Rooney, Joe and Ashely Cole , Ferdinand , Terry and the rest of them. While they are playing for their respective clubs they are adored every week by their fans and are used to winning major trophies and playing at the top level against the best players in the world .

Now compare that to when they play for England , playing needless friendlies , the fans booing you , the media slating you , playing with players from your rivals , the threat of getting injured and the rest of it .

It's no wonder sometimes that you see players putting in uncharacteristic performances for England. All the players always say the right thing in front of the cameras though but then again they haven't really got much choice have they .

To finish , none of the current England squad were even born the last ( and only ) time we won something so you can understand to some extent why their performances differ sometimes for club and country

S.Mouse

I noted your remarks relating to contributors of the latest merging of the Euro thread and saying, and i quote you:-

For those who want to p1ss and moan about England , have the balls to do it on the England thread

I think as you keep having a go then we are entitled to come back at you and reply in kind.

Posters were responding to a particular thread relating to the shameful and pathetic display by the England team.

It has nothing to do with balls and your repeated comments and snide remarks about posters choosing as and when they wish to comment on any patricular topic. ( Not only football, just to expand my thoughts )

This is the given right of ALL Thai Visa members and in particular if they are stating the truth and are being factual on the threads aims, not being disruptive or automatically being classed in a derogratory manner.

The above post you have offered as an excuse for the so called professionals takes the biscuit when eluding from truth and reality and spoken like a parent sticking up for her spoiled child and unable / refusing to see the truth.

An extension of the word balls is appropriate to put it in context.

Perhaps the next time you are in the U.K. you should go to the local park and observe the way the unpaid, non professional players do it and note their spirit of wanting to win.

This may remind you of what attitude, desire and having the will to win and managing to play for each other as a team, even though some will never have played together before, nor be familiar with each others style of play.

They do it by the way for the pure love of the game of football and do no need the over inflated rewards that go with being a paid professional to motivate them to play, let alone trophies.

It is attitudes like yours that could just maybe putting regular imput that you sarcastically go on about, from the stay away commentators.

Since when by the way do you need balls to post remarks on a thread when you are protected by anonymity.

Nothing personal, just my opinion as a non regular contributor, who incidently has followed and supported football from the local parks to the highest level over fifty odd years.

As J.S rightly says in his reference to <deleted>, unless you allow free expression and comment that then surely is all this thread amounts to is ****, along with selective imput.

Go and pick your pacifier up, there,s a good boy.

To finish , D

I thought football was a mans game, played by men with a desire, the balls and in this case the experience to achieve a result.

It,s a good job you haven,t had the pleasure of visiting my local and heard the piss taking and non complimentary observations on the failure to qualify. ( To a man / woman 100 %)

marshbags

IMHO of course.

Sorry marsh , I didn't realise you were on the blob .

On this thread , quite a few of us are not protected by anonymity , we've met up to watch games together unlike yourself.

I was in no way defending England's performance as I was one of their biggest critics , it just annoys a bit when I see someone post on the football thread about how <deleted> a certain player or team is without any knowledge of the game to back it up ( I'm not mentioning any names , you know who you are ).

And marsh , you don't need to remind me about "attitude, desire and having the will to win and managing to play for each other as a team " , I can guarantee I've played football at a higher level than you and nothing matters more than your teamates and fans.

As for England , I'll love the team no matter what ( even though were having a trial seperation ).

Why don't you come to the next beer night in Bangkok marsh , I'm a sound enough lad and I'm sure we'll have some good banter about football .

[mrbojangles]

Why don't you come to the next beer night in Bangkok marsh , I'm a sound enough lad and I'm sure we'll have some good banter about football .

[/color]

I can vouch for Scouse, even though he's a bit deluded as to how good his team are, he's a sound lad

[mrtoad]

Why don't you come to the next beer night in Bangkok marsh , I'm a sound enough lad and I'm sure we'll have some good banter about football .

[/color]

I can vouch for Scouse, even though he's a bit deluded as to how good his team are, he's a sound lad

But has he played in the World Cup Final ?

[mrbojangles]

Are we going to get our own back on the Croats?

World Cup draw for England

Group 6 Croatia, ENGLAND, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Andorra

[mrtoad]

Are we going to get our own back on the Croats?

World Cup draw for England

Group 6 Croatia, ENGLAND, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Andorra

I for one don't think this is an Easy group. Ukraine and Belarus are pretty useful sides, and a trip to Borat's home country is going to be interesting.

If you look at the Rankings - Croatia 10, England 12, Ukraine 29, Belarus 60, Kazakhstan 110 and Andorra 174.

It's the trips into Eastern Europe that are never easy, and although those teams don't always travel well, there are several banana skins in this group. England will certainly have to improve from the previous campaign if they are going to qualify. With any luck it might have given a few of the show ponies a ick up the backside.

BTW, Thailand are ranked 113 and they will surely not qualify given their group of Japan, Oman, Bahrain and Qatar.

[Jockstar]

But has he played in the World Cup Final ?

Only on his Playstation.

[mrtoad]

But has he played in the World Cup Final ?

Only on his Playstation.

[chavy]

Are we going to get our own back on the Croats?

World Cup draw for England

Group 6 Croatia, ENGLAND, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Andorra

I for one don't think this is an Easy group. Ukraine and Belarus are pretty useful sides, and a trip to Borat's home country is going to be interesting.

If you look at the Rankings - Croatia 10, England 12, Ukraine 29, Belarus 60, Kazakhstan 110 and Andorra 174.

It's the trips into Eastern Europe that are never easy, and although those teams don't always travel well, there are several banana skins in this group. England will certainly have to improve from the previous campaign if they are going to qualify. With any luck it might have given a few of the show ponies a ick up the backside.

BTW, Thailand are ranked 113 and they will surely not qualify given their group of Japan, Oman, Bahrain and Qatar.

Behave Toadie.........this group is nearly as easy as the jocks group. They have it easy this time round & should qualify with ease The scroats can't beat us again mate....that's just not cricket !

[chavy]

I can guarantee I've played football at a higher level than you and nothing matters more than your teamates and fans

Your not that young lad that use run up & down the wing terrorising the defences for Camel Laird are you ?

[mrtoad]

I can guarantee I've played football at a higher level than you and nothing matters more than your teamates and fans

Your not that young lad that use run up & down the wing terrorising the defences for Camel Laird are you ?

He's actually Paul Masefield in disguise.

[scousemouse]

But has he played in the World Cup Final ?

Only on his Playstation.

and the final score was England 3-0 Scotland

[scousemouse]

I can guarantee I've played football at a higher level than you and nothing matters more than your teamates and fans

Your not that young lad that use run up & down the wing terrorising the defences for Camel Laird are you ?

He's actually Paul Masefield in disguise.

my secret's out

[mrtoad]

But has he played in the World Cup Final ?

Only on his Playstation.

and the final score was England 3-0 Scotland

Let's be realistic scouse, must have been a qualifier, Scotland would never get to the Final unless they are playing in a triangular with the Shetland Islands and the Orkney Islands.

[scousemouse]

I can guarantee I've played football at a higher level than you and nothing matters more than your teamates and fans

Your not that young lad that use run up & down the wing terrorising the defences for Camel Laird are you ?

I do remember playing AGAINST Camel Laird a few times chavy , though never for them , I played for the Coburg .

[markr]

here

Play this, stress relief for all us england fans

[oldgit]

I've copied and pasted this from another forum. Discuss!

England - We Are Wrong

I just heard the most sensible analysis of the state of English football and suddenly my eyes are open. Gab Marcotti was the man giving the opinion and he basically states that the main problem we have is perception.

Firstly we have an inflated perception of ourselves, and at the same time we always understate the opposition. We think we're up there with Germany, Brazil or Italy. And we think Teams like Russia, Croatia and Israel are at least one, if not two or three tiers below us. We're not that good, and they aren't that bad. What's more accurate is that we are on a par with the Sweden's and Denmark's of this world, and so, in fact, are Russia, Croatia and Israel. It's an even thing. How do we know this? Results do not lie.

Why do we perceive things this way? The typically English way of analysing other international teams is to judge them by the quality of their domesticleague. No one else does this. So why do we? The simple reason is because the English media and the English fan have convinced themselves that the Premier League is a representation of how England should play. Hence the repeated questioning as to why England play long-ball brainless football instead of the beautiful fast aggressive style of Man Utd and Arsenal. The reason Arsenal and Manure play this way is because they have 20 of the best players from around the world playing for some of the best managers and coaches from around the world. Therefore asking why Gerrard and Lampard don't play for England like they do for their clubs is easy to answer - they are surrounded by players who are at least as good, but most likely better than they are. For some reason we have convinced ourselves that the best teams that money can buy play the English way. This is clearly nonsense - simply look at how england have played for the last 20 years. Not once have they ever played the passing game like Arsenal, counter attack play like Manure, or even the tactical by-the-odds game of Chelsea or Liverpool.

This is not to say English players are bad. Not at all - but any system that England play is not going to be familiar to the players based on their skill sets. On the other hand look at Croatia. English fans and media saw (and still see amazingly) Croatia as a second tier international team that we should be beating. This is because their domestic league is poorer than ours, and thier players play all over the world and never together. Herein lies the simple reason why Brazil and Argentina are the two best teams in world football - their international players only play for the best teams, with the best players, under the best coaches and managers the game has to offer. Croatia fit this analysis too - all their players play around Europe for high level teams. This means they can adapt to the style and system of the fast-flowing passing of the Premiership and La Liga, or tactical play such as in Italy and Germany.

England have no players plying their trade in Europe. None. If the reflexive reaction was to curb the amount of foreign players the Premier League would quickly become.......like the England team. Marcotti's saving point is that the England team can play like the did against Germany 6 years ago. Or against Argentina at the World Cup.

But the point of the analysis is we aren't achieving what we think we should because we are wrong in the first place. We will not play like Arsenal or Manure - we don't have the players. And England are not better than Croatia, Russia or Israel. There are no results, no tradition and no trends that show that England should be winning anything. The patter nshows that when England are mentioned in the same breath as Denmark, Sweden or Greece, we should consider ourselves of that level. In a strange way Sven was right - he had to play the way he did because tha tensured England would get to the quarter-final stages.

The difference we have is that we can play at a higher level - we can utilise the Premier League to improve our own team. We need a real manager, a proper coach. Someone with the tactical ability of a Guus Hiddink who can show English players how to use more than one system and move off the ball. Or organised tactical nous like Marcello Lippi and Fabio Cappello who can drill a system into players so that Gerrard and Rooney won't wander out of position so much for England. We need a motivator like Klinsmann to convince the players that they don't have to play like Brazil to beat Brazil, and that we have our own strengths that other national teams would pay good money for. Quite simply, we need a good manager. Not a make-do no history of winning manager. McClaren was dire because he always has been. Sven was tactically rigid and boring because he always has been. Keegan was tactically niave because he always has been. None of them have ever won anything of note. Hoddle managed to motivate, inspire and get a system but we ran him out of the game.

So Marcotti warns that we are already getting reayd to shoot oursleves again - now that O'Niell and Mourinho don't want it the English press are saying good things about Harry Redknapp and Alan Shearer! Neither has achieved anything - not one medal between them. Nice guys, popular with many, but exactly the opposite of what is needed. It's astonishing that on the day Cappello says he's interested English football commentators argue that he might not work because, yes he is the most successful manager in world football at present, but that doesn't mean he can perform at international level. At the same time they are talking up Harry Redknapp as of equal comparison because he has dragged Portsmouth to 7th in the Premier League.

I'm with Marcotti - let's get Cappello and let's find a new style of playing.

When I was living in England four years ago and being a Chelsea supporter,I subscribed to the Chelsea T.V. channel.It was and still is a public relations exercise for club with all the yes men TALKING a thousand words but SAYING nothing,but,in amongst the dross,Gabrielle Marcotti would appear like a oasis in the desert and put forwards pearls of wisdom which would put all the other 'talking fish' in the shade.I have got a lot of time for the man and I dont understand why he is not on T.V. more often.His overall analysis of what is wrong with the England set up is spot on.

The only time I have been excited by a side made up of Englishmen(O.K.with three 'sweaties' thrown in,Jock)was the young Aston Villa team that won the 1st. Division Championship of 1980/81,then went on to win the European Cup(now UEFA Champions League) in 1982.What a team that was.A defence marshalled by Allan Evans,a midfield bristling with talent(Gordon Cowans,Denis Mortimor Tony Morley)and the skill and pace up front of Garry Shaw.All of them British but,interestingly,only 3 of the side were capped for England.So the bureaucracy that blights the game now was also in evidence then with stuffed shirts like Walter Winterbottom and Ron Greenwood being preferred to successful managers like Ron Saunders,Tony Barton and Brian Clough.You could not talk about Allardyce,Redknapp and Curbishly in the same breath as these guys.PLEASE,lets get rid of the tired old boy scouts in the F.A.first,then get a modern,forward thinking team in its place-some foreign if need be,then a WORLD class manager who is intelligent, single minded and knows how to spot talent and class from the most unlikeliest of sources.He will not be swayed by the T.V brains trust(most of them desperately poor,failed managers anyway)and media screaming for their favourites.Arsene Wenger springs to mind because,although under the constraints of the Arsenal wage system,has produced players of quality throughout his tenure.That man,I believe could produce an England team reminiscent of the1982 Aston Villa team and the2007 Arsenal side.If the F.A. are that flush with cash,they should make him an offer he cannot refuse.

[EastSaxCol]

Arsene Wenger springs to mind because,although under the constraints of the Arsenal wage system,has produced players of quality throughout his tenure.That man,I believe could produce an England team reminiscent of the1982 Aston Villa team and the2007 Arsenal side.If the F.A. are that flush with cash,they should make him an offer he cannot refuse.

An awful lot of people think that they should break the bank in trying to get Mourinho too. But as with Wenger it's doubtful that either would want the job.

I know that 'arry is being increasingly bigged-up for the job. But what European experience has he had? We'll, he did win us the Inter-Titty Cup when our manager.

There again. Maybe it's not a great tactician (and 'arry's not) that England need at this time - but someone who can actually bring the team together and motivate them - a manager of over-inflated egos. 'arry is second to none in that department.

But my guess is that they'll go for Fabio Capello. Although I personally wouldn't mind Mark Hughes name being thrown into the hat.