New place for jamming at the Night Bazar

[Okertes]

I would like to suggest a new place for the music and beer lovers it is called the Lipstic Bar

which is not as it may sounds . Every Saturdays night they have a Jam session or Open mike event

with some pro musician .You can bring your instrument and join the fun they have a good system and full drum set .

The location of this place is next to Le Meridian hotel to the north on Chanklan Rd. second floor of the market building.

[zeichen]

"You can bring your instrument and join the fun they have a good system and full drum set"

I haven't been paying attention but I remember a few years ago this was not allowed. Have they lightened up and allow for jamming and playing music without the need of a work perimt? I have a few friends that really wanted to perform while they were here but I advised them not to. It would be nice if the police didn't bother people for sharing their talents.

[elektrified]

"You can bring your instrument and join the fun they have a good system and full drum set"

I haven't been paying attention but I remember a few years ago this was not allowed. Have they lightened up and allow for jamming and playing music without the need of a work perimt? I have a few friends that really wanted to perform while they were here but I advised them not to. It would be nice if the police didn't bother people for sharing their talents.

Musicians are jamming all over the city and have been since about 2 weeks after "the crackdown".

[zeichen]

Thanks, good to know. One of my neighbors was one that got busted and she wasn't too happy about the huge fine for singing on stage. She hasn't bothered performing publicly since then and that was at least 2 years ago.

[Mohammed Love]

Adhere by the laws here. Get a Work Permit based on performing if you wish to do so.

[bangmai]

It will be OK until it becomes popular.......just remember, the fish-eye is the most nutritious part of the fish head soup at IDC, and paperback books will work for toilet paper. However, it would be impolite to put that in the toilet.

[FolkGuitar]

Most of the folks I jam with have no desire to 'perform,' although we've all been performers in our home countries,

We play together, never looking for an 'open mike' or a club to play in. We just want to play our music for our enjoyment.

The music scene is rich and varied in Chiang Mai (although there are very few western Folk musicians around any more) so

there is usually someplace to fit in to,

[northernjohn]

"You can bring your instrument and join the fun they have a good system and full drum set"

I haven't been paying attention but I remember a few years ago this was not allowed. Have they lightened up and allow for jamming and playing music without the need of a work perimt? I have a few friends that really wanted to perform while they were here but I advised them not to. It would be nice if the police didn't bother people for sharing their talents.

Musicians are jamming all over the city and have been since about 2 weeks after "the crackdown".

If I remember correctly the crack down was started by one person posting all over face book about his performing and working here in Thailand and he didn't even have a Visa. The other one was because one member was wanted by the police. Then as you say no more arrests.

[Chicog]

I haven't seen the Irish couple playing in the UN Irish Pub since that crackdown.

Thank f---

[daoyai]

Adhere by the laws here. Get a Work Permit based on performing if you wish to do so.

Yo Moh, no can do, WPs are not sold to freelancers of any sort.

[Mohammed Love]

"You can bring your instrument and join the fun they have a good system and full drum set"

I haven't been paying attention but I remember a few years ago this was not allowed. Have they lightened up and allow for jamming and playing music without the need of a work perimt? I have a few friends that really wanted to perform while they were here but I advised them not to. It would be nice if the police didn't bother people for sharing their talents.

Musicians are jamming all over the city and have been since about 2 weeks after "the crackdown".

If I remember correctly the crack down was started by one person posting all over face book about his performing and working here in Thailand and he didn't even have a Visa. The other one was because one member was wanted by the police. Then as you say no more arrests.

Actually it was started by a rival business to the one offering the jam sessions. The sessions became quite popular while their bar sat empty.

You can probably work out the rest.

[Chiengmaijoe]

"You can bring your instrument and join the fun they have a good system and full drum set"

I haven't been paying attention but I remember a few years ago this was not allowed. Have they lightened up and allow for jamming and playing music without the need of a work perimt? I have a few friends that really wanted to perform while they were here but I advised them not to. It would be nice if the police didn't bother people for sharing their talents.

Musicians are jamming all over the city and have been since about 2 weeks after "the crackdown".

If I remember correctly the crack down was started by one person posting all over face book about his performing and working here in Thailand and he didn't even have a Visa. The other one was because one member was wanted by the police. Then as you say no more arrests.

Actually it was started by a rival business to the one offering the jam sessions. The sessions became quite popular while their bar sat empty.

You can probably work out the rest.

There are a few places around town promoting jam sessions so I would think that the labour office are back into 'couldn't care less' mode. They probably wouldn't know what to do if a tourist turned up asking for a work permit to jam at a bar, assuming that a tourist knew that they needed one or where the Labour office is. In fact, I'm due a visit to the labour office in March, I might ask about a permit to play music and also ask them where the office is to get a licence for by pet bee, Eric. Edited January 10, 2015 by Chiengmaijoe

[khwaibah]

The Music is over. Light reading.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/462127-5-more-musicians-jailed/

http://www.chiangmainews.com/ecmn/viewfa.php?id=3218

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/473613-working-legally-in-thailand-immigration-and-labour-departments-speaks-out/

[FolkGuitar]

The Music is over. Light reading.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/462127-5-more-musicians-jailed/

http://www.chiangmainews.com/ecmn/viewfa.php?id=3218

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/473613-working-legally-in-thailand-immigration-and-labour-departments-speaks-out/

This is news from four years ago... Is it still relevant?

[khwaibah]

The Music is over. Light reading.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/462127-5-more-musicians-jailed/

http://www.chiangmainews.com/ecmn/viewfa.php?id=3218

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/473613-working-legally-in-thailand-immigration-and-labour-departments-speaks-out/

This is news from four years ago... Is it still relevant?

You never know.

[FolkGuitar]

The Music is over. Light reading.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/462127-5-more-musicians-jailed/

http://www.chiangmainews.com/ecmn/viewfa.php?id=3218

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/473613-working-legally-in-thailand-immigration-and-labour-departments-speaks-out/

This is news from four years ago... Is it still relevant?

You never know.

I guess that really is the bottom line.

In reality, I think that if you are playing music in a venue where a Thai could be making money, such as in a bar or club, you are courting danger. Especially if you are plugged into an amplified system or on a stage in front of customers. Easy for the powers that be to say that you are taking away the possibility of a Thai to earn a living.

If you are playing in a locale that is obviously NOT being supported by paying customers, i.e. in the park or along the lake, there would never be a raised eyebrow. But... as you say, you never know.

[Chiengmaijoe]

Adhere by the laws here. Get a Work Permit based on performing if you wish to do so.

Besides not needing someone to tell us what to do, 'adhere by the laws here' is just not necessary in a lot of cases. Why should we worry about laws that are so clearly ignored by everyone else particularly when even the authorities don't care. Should we carry our passport with us everywhere we go, not drink in after hours bars, always follow every traffic law, not gamble, not consume alcohol in bars between 2pm and 5pm? Anyone following all the laws in Thailand is soon going to become the odd man out, and I not only like to go with the flow but I also like to ignore as many laws as I possibly can.

As it stands the labour office doesn't worry about foreigners jamming in bars, and reading between the lines in the interview with the labour office chief, they only responded last time because somebody made a complaint, otherwise, they couldn't be bothered. Sure, it could happen again, but it's a small chance, so you have two choices, take Mum's advice and don't break the law, or consider it as being an extremely remote possibility and get out there and enjoy yourself.

For the record, I've only ever heard of one little spell of clampdowns on this trivial issue in the past 25 years and that was over and done with in a very short time. Somehow, I don't think it's anyone's priority or concern. Possibly people who consider themselves as being 'guests' here might want to follow every little rule, but me, I live here.

[zeichen]

Yes, but when it did happen my neighbor spent the night in jail, and had to pay a 30k baht fine and has a criminal record now. Not exactly worth it.

But I do think that it was a fluke. I will advise my friends to try it out as they are just tourists. They are usually forgiven where us long term residents often get the you should know better attitude.

[elektrified]

Adhere by the laws here. Get a Work Permit based on performing if you wish to do so.

Besides not needing someone to tell us what to do, 'adhere by the laws here' is just not necessary in a lot of cases. Why should we worry about laws that are so clearly ignored by everyone else particularly when even the authorities don't care. Should we carry our passport with us everywhere we go, not drink in after hours bars, always follow every traffic law, not gamble, not consume alcohol in bars between 2pm and 5pm? Anyone following all the laws in Thailand is soon going to become the odd man out, and I not only like to go with the flow but I also like to ignore as many laws as I possibly can.

As it stands the labour office doesn't worry about foreigners jamming in bars, and reading between the lines in the interview with the labour office chief, they only responded last time because somebody made a complaint, otherwise, they couldn't be bothered. Sure, it could happen again, but it's a small chance, so you have two choices, take Mum's advice and don't break the law, or consider it as being an extremely remote possibility and get out there and enjoy yourself.

For the record, I've only ever heard of one little spell of clampdowns on this trivial issue in the past 25 years and that was over and done with in a very short time. Somehow, I don't think it's anyone's priority or concern. Possibly people who consider themselves as being 'guests' here might want to follow every little rule, but me, I live here.

The only thing I take exception to is that I disagree with breaking traffic laws. If more people adhered to the rules, there may be less traffic accidents/deaths. Otherwise - good post.

[62strat]

It's one of those things where it's best to measure the benefits against the risk. The risk is real but imposiible to measure.Maybe no one will be hasseled for years to come, or maybe tomorrow is the day someone for some reason, decides a crackdown is in order.

[FolkGuitar]

It's really no big deal... If you want to jam, do so in places where you aren't running the risk. No one is going to stop people from playing together at the park, along the lake-side, or in someone's home. If you play electric, use a portable amp. Unless one has the need to perform or show off in public, this really shouldn't be a problem. On nice days, friends and I often play under the big tree across from the Rider Cafe, in the clearing at the top of the wall around the moat. No one bothers us there, we really can't even be heard at street level, and it's a lovely setting.

[northernjohn]

It's really no big deal... If you want to jam, do so in places where you aren't running the risk. No one is going to stop people from playing together at the park, along the lake-side, or in someone's home. If you play electric, use a portable amp. Unless one has the need to perform or show off in public, this really shouldn't be a problem. On nice days, friends and I often play under the big tree across from the Rider Cafe, in the clearing at the top of the wall around the moat. No one bothers us there, we really can't even be heard at street level, and it's a lovely setting.

Could not some one who wants to jam in a bar pay the owner 20 baht to let him play.

[FolkGuitar]

It's really no big deal... If you want to jam, do so in places where you aren't running the risk. No one is going to stop people from playing together at the park, along the lake-side, or in someone's home. If you play electric, use a portable amp. Unless one has the need to perform or show off in public, this really shouldn't be a problem. On nice days, friends and I often play under the big tree across from the Rider Cafe, in the clearing at the top of the wall around the moat. No one bothers us there, we really can't even be heard at street level, and it's a lovely setting.

Could not some one who wants to jam in a bar pay the owner 20 baht to let him play.

If people play well, bars are more than happy to have people jamming, especially for free. The problem arises when a Thai says;

'hey! I could be making money playing there if those farang weren't hogging the mic! They're taking away my potential income."

Now, this fellow might not be able to put together three chords in the same key, nor sing any better than a frog, but if HE thinks he could be making money, and he complains to the police that foreigners are blocking him from doing so, that's all it takes to create a problem. Perhaps he tried to get a paying gig at the same bar and was turned down because he didn't know which side of the guitar to strum, but in HIS mind, all he knows is that foreigners are playing and he's not getting any money...

[khwaibah]

It's really no big deal... If you want to jam, do so in places where you aren't running the risk. No one is going to stop people from playing together at the park, along the lake-side, or in someone's home. If you play electric, use a portable amp. Unless one has the need to perform or show off in public, this really shouldn't be a problem. On nice days, friends and I often play under the big tree across from the Rider Cafe, in the clearing at the top of the wall around the moat. No one bothers us there, we really can't even be heard at street level, and it's a lovely setting.

Could not some one who wants to jam in a bar pay the owner 20 baht to let him play.

If people play well, bars are more than happy to have people jamming, especially for free. The problem arises when a Thai says;

'hey! I could be making money playing there if those farang weren't hogging the mic! They're taking away my potential income."

Now, this fellow might not be able to put together three chords in the same key, nor sing any better than a frog, but if HE thinks he could be making money, and he complains to the police that foreigners are blocking him from doing so, that's all it takes to create a problem. Perhaps he tried to get a paying gig at the same bar and was turned down because he didn't know which side of the guitar to strum, but in HIS mind, all he knows is that foreigners are playing and he's not getting any money...

Totally agree FG. Besides the farang by Thai Law is working with no work permit and the owner of said bar has illegally hired a farang.

[Chiengmaijoe]

It's really no big deal... If you want to jam, do so in places where you aren't running the risk. No one is going to stop people from playing together at the park, along the lake-side, or in someone's home. If you play electric, use a portable amp. Unless one has the need to perform or show off in public, this really shouldn't be a problem. On nice days, friends and I often play under the big tree across from the Rider Cafe, in the clearing at the top of the wall around the moat. No one bothers us there, we really can't even be heard at street level, and it's a lovely setting.

Could not some one who wants to jam in a bar pay the owner 20 baht to let him play.

If people play well, bars are more than happy to have people jamming, especially for free. The problem arises when a Thai says;

'hey! I could be making money playing there if those farang weren't hogging the mic! They're taking away my potential income."

Now, this fellow might not be able to put together three chords in the same key, nor sing any better than a frog, but if HE thinks he could be making money, and he complains to the police that foreigners are blocking him from doing so, that's all it takes to create a problem. Perhaps he tried to get a paying gig at the same bar and was turned down because he didn't know which side of the guitar to strum, but in HIS mind, all he knows is that foreigners are playing and he's not getting any money...

Totally agree FG. Besides the farang by Thai Law is working with no work permit and the owner of said bar has illegally hired a farang.

Come on, you guys surely know that Thai Law is ignored just as much as it enforced, and this is one of those ignored laws, except for a once off complaint. At any place I've been where foreigners are jamming there's always been plenty of Thai musicians enjoying themselves and joining in.

This is foreigners singing, or playing guitar, not driving a tuktuk or being a tour guide. Musicians are very much more likely to be enjoying the experience and appreciating the different talents than the extremely remote chance of them feeling as if someone is stealing their job. Yes, it's possible, but in my view, highly unlikely.

If any of the bars out there appreciated my whistling talent or my dexterity on the Spoons, I'd be on the stage in a shot, with no qualms. I might also add that contrary to the views of many folks here, I honestly believe that the average Thai is a lot more tolerant, accepting and non-confrontational than most Farangs, and that reason alone makes it so unlikely that they would report someone.

By the way, how many farangs in Chiang Mai have ever been done for working without a work permit? I'm sure it's happened, but I've never actually heard of a case besides this unusual one-off jamming incident a few years back. I've seen many a farang behind a bar, the odd one or two with the missus selling something from a stall and I'm sure there are plenty of teachers , voluntary workers and others, that probably don't have work permits, but the reality is that we don't get the hassle here that farangs probably get in the likes of Pattaya or Bangkok. I've had a work permit for 20+ years but no one has ever asked to see it.

[FolkGuitar]

You're absolutely correct. It would be an oddity. But it's an oddity that can amount to a lot of problems that can easily be avoided.

All it takes is one unhappy Thai... Just one.

My friends and I play together often. We just don't play where someone could possibly be paid to perform. It's that easy.

Some people need to 'perform.' That's where the trouble arises. Others just want to play music.

[northernjohn]

It's really no big deal... If you want to jam, do so in places where you aren't running the risk. No one is going to stop people from playing together at the park, along the lake-side, or in someone's home. If you play electric, use a portable amp. Unless one has the need to perform or show off in public, this really shouldn't be a problem. On nice days, friends and I often play under the big tree across from the Rider Cafe, in the clearing at the top of the wall around the moat. No one bothers us there, we really can't even be heard at street level, and it's a lovely setting.

Could not some one who wants to jam in a bar pay the owner 20 baht to let him play.

If people play well, bars are more than happy to have people jamming, especially for free. The problem arises when a Thai says;

'hey! I could be making money playing there if those farang weren't hogging the mic! They're taking away my potential income."

Now, this fellow might not be able to put together three chords in the same key, nor sing any better than a frog, but if HE thinks he could be making money, and he complains to the police that foreigners are blocking him from doing so, that's all it takes to create a problem. Perhaps he tried to get a paying gig at the same bar and was turned down because he didn't know which side of the guitar to strum, but in HIS mind, all he knows is that foreigners are playing and he's not getting any money...

That doesn't really answer the question. If you were to give the owner say 50 baht you would not be working you would be renting space and equipment. I know what you say is possible but would not you paying the bar owner with no money being paid to you make it OK. Same as playing on the street only you pay for the pleasure of playing.

[Chiengmaijoe]

It's really no big deal... If you want to jam, do so in places where you aren't running the risk. No one is going to stop people from playing together at the park, along the lake-side, or in someone's home. If you play electric, use a portable amp. Unless one has the need to perform or show off in public, this really shouldn't be a problem. On nice days, friends and I often play under the big tree across from the Rider Cafe, in the clearing at the top of the wall around the moat. No one bothers us there, we really can't even be heard at street level, and it's a lovely setting.

Could not some one who wants to jam in a bar pay the owner 20 baht to let him play.

If people play well, bars are more than happy to have people jamming, especially for free. The problem arises when a Thai says;

'hey! I could be making money playing there if those farang weren't hogging the mic! They're taking away my potential income."

Now, this fellow might not be able to put together three chords in the same key, nor sing any better than a frog, but if HE thinks he could be making money, and he complains to the police that foreigners are blocking him from doing so, that's all it takes to create a problem. Perhaps he tried to get a paying gig at the same bar and was turned down because he didn't know which side of the guitar to strum, but in HIS mind, all he knows is that foreigners are playing and he's not getting any money...

That doesn't really answer the question. If you were to give the owner say 50 baht you would not be working you would be renting space and equipment. I know what you say is possible but would not you paying the bar owner with no money being paid to you make it OK. Same as playing on the street only you pay for the pleasure of playing.

It's an interesting idea, but I still think that technically it's working. Anyway, in reality the only people I've ever heard say 'you need a work permit to do that' is Farangs. They're obsessed about it and jump at every opportunity to say it, just so they can show everybody how informed they are and how they know how things work here. As this topic proves, it's an obsession with them and has become a knee-jerk, predictable response on this forum.

How many times have I seen 'you need a work permit for that..' mentioned here? Dozens. How many times have I heard a Thai say it? Never. The reality is that in Chiang Mai the locals certainly don't care about it, and the authorities on the whole don't care. Play ultra-safe if you want, but the reality is that it's just not an issue in Chiang Mai. What happened two or three years ago was an anomaly.

Where are the guys that come out with the little nuggets like 'you need a work permit to paint your own house, teach English to the neighbours kids, wash your car or pick your own nose' when you need them?

[FolkGuitar]

Could not some one who wants to jam in a bar pay the owner 20 baht to let him play.

If people play well, bars are more than happy to have people jamming, especially for free. The problem arises when a Thai says;

'hey! I could be making money playing there if those farang weren't hogging the mic! They're taking away my potential income."

Now, this fellow might not be able to put together three chords in the same key, nor sing any better than a frog, but if HE thinks he could be making money, and he complains to the police that foreigners are blocking him from doing so, that's all it takes to create a problem. Perhaps he tried to get a paying gig at the same bar and was turned down because he didn't know which side of the guitar to strum, but in HIS mind, all he knows is that foreigners are playing and he's not getting any money...

That doesn't really answer the question. If you were to give the owner say 50 baht you would not be working you would be renting space and equipment. I know what you say is possible but would not you paying the bar owner with no money being paid to you make it OK. Same as playing on the street only you pay for the pleasure of playing.

That's an interesting concept... someone 'renting space' to play... I see where you are coming from on this, and I like it!

I guess it would be something that could well be argued before the courts if it came to that.

As said before, lots of people are playing in many different venues these days and so far, no one is getting hassled about it. And as long as no Thai gets upset about it, there won't be any problems.

But all it takes is one.

One disgruntled, unhappy soul who feels that a farang is taking away his opportunity to earn a living for the sh#t to hit the fan. Or for a Thai supervisor to get up on the wrong side of the bed and decide 'today we're going to enforce a different law,' We've seen that happen many times in the past... Sweeps of various locations targeting one specific violation.

Maybe it will happen. Maybe it won't. In any event, it's easy enough to avoid the problem, right?

[hml367]

I would say one of the worst things to do is to try and "outsmart" the system in Thailand. You would be making someone lose face and it is almost guaranteed the person thinking they are smarter is the one that would be outsmarted. Almost every "trick" you can think of has been tried already. The "system" knows what is happening and the "system" is not burdened by the same rules of proof required in the West.

FG jamming in the park is one thing - trying to skirt the rules is another, as FG has already pointed out.

Edited January 12, 2015 by hml367