Permanent residence applications now being accepted 14-30 January 2015

[thedemon]

Would I be correct in my understanding that a man married to a Thai for over three years would be eligible apply regardless of whether he has been working or not as I am thinking of making an application? I have scanned through Camerata's guide but at 95 pages it is a mini War and Peace.

Unfortunately the answer isn't the news you will want to hear. Even if applying under the family category you need to have at least 3 full years of unbroken tax receipts and a work permit.

It is also very unlikely that someone would be able to prepare all the documents required in the 2 weeks left before immigration stop accepting applications. Most applicants would have started that process several months ago.

[samran]

Can anyone tell me whether the PR is open ended or has a window - 5 years, 10 years? Many thanks

It is good for infinity.

Thanks Joe. Much appreciated

You'd be a shoe in, as well with citizenship...

[ubonjoe]

Would I be correct in my understanding that a man married to a Thai for over three years would be eligible apply regardless of whether he has been working or not as I am thinking of making an application? I have scanned through Camerata's guide but at 95 pages it is a mini War and Peace.

Unfortunately the answer isn't the news you will want to hear. Even if applying under the family category you need to have at least 3 full years of unbroken tax receipts and a work permit.

It is also very unlikely that someone would be able to prepare all the documents required in the 2 weeks left before immigration stop accepting applications. Most applicants would have started that process several months ago.

I am on my 7th extension of stay based upon marriage and cannot apply because I am not working here.

There is no way to do an application now if you have not started putting the documents together already. The back ground check from your home country would take longer to get than the time you have left to apply.

[Time Traveller]

My friend couldn't speak a word and got it.

The order of the white elephant 5th order may have helped and he worked in the US embassy

Did you stretch the truth in this story? you can not apply unless you are employed by a Thai company. Working for an embassy does not qualify you.

There are some exceptions to the WP/tax requirements. For example, foriegn Buddhist monks. So I wouldn't put it out of the bounds of possibility that an embassy employee might qualify. They would likely have some connections in the right places too.

Maybe for monks, but let me repeat. Working for an embassy does not qualify you.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Time Traveller

[jmacken306]

What? I'm a US Citizen lived till 2011 in the USA and now staying in Thailand! The USA would limit countries in the Thousands I guess that is why they call the USA the free country!

[Kan Win]

In the latter half of the 90s, when I applied, Immigration was virtually able to guarantee a reply within 12 months but the process was disrupted when Purachai became IM under Thaksin and knocked back entire batches of PR and citizenship applications as "unworthy" and accused police of corruption in screening them. There is no reason why PR applications should take 5-7 years to approve and most of the steps take place quite promptly leaving the applications waiting for the minister's signature for years.

Oh Dear, oh Dear, Khun Purachai, I Thank You very much , signed mine in 2002 just before he left. I was No. 99 in the UK section, by the way.

I applied in 2000 after 10 years on a non-O extension to stay, married to my Thai wife and still am after 29 years together, very happy as well.

In those days you had to do the 10 year bit, now I think it is only 3 years, so lucky you, but it only cost me 25,000 baht on final payment, so swings and roundabouts.

Good Luck to all of you that have and are applying.

Win

P.S. BTW, the Blue Party (Dems) never ever gave one out when they where in power, only gave each and everyone who applied the Blues.

[Kasset Tak]

A PR would be ok but I rather take a citizenship only problembis that I think that would be harder to obtain!

[aleKK]

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Gawd, easier to do a retirement visa every year.

You could do all of this and still be turned down.

One question, do you need to be employed here or can you be self employed, which I am?

I you need to be employed here the point is moot.

If you have you own company and a work permit you can apply.

WP from at list 3 years with 50000 baht salary per month and employed by own wife?

TNX!

[KCPhuket]

NO, you have to have Thai citizenship to receive a Thai passport or ID card...10 years after the PR you can apply for Thai citizenship! Yippee!

[Mario2008]

NO, you have to have Thai citizenship to receive a Thai passport or ID card...10 years after the PR you can apply for Thai citizenship! Yippee!

Not sure what you are replying too, but your information is wrong.

[Mario2008]

1 off topic post removed.

Please post in your own topic or in another topic that is relevant to your question.

[Beetlejuice]

So let us place this into perspective:

Only 100 persons of each nationality is awarded permanent residence that rather turns this into a very expensive lottery, the chances are extremely slim.

If awarded a permanent residence the total cost will be 200000 baht. Now, considering that extending our visas each year costs 1900 baht, that means obtaining a PR is equivalent to105 years of annual 1900 baht regular visa extensions. Plus taking into consideration that all this will mean is that there is no need to have certain monies saved in a Thai bank every year and not having to visit Immigration once a year and that`s about it. Nothing else would change, most of the rules that are in force for those on non Immigrant visa will still apply, including the 90 day day reports and other limitations that affect ex-pats living in Thailand.

If for a total of 200000 baht obtaining a PR was guaranteed providing the applicants met all the criteria, then I would have no hesitation going for it, but considering it`s a 7600 baht lottery ticket with odds that are probably 1000s to one, than no way. It`s simply not a good deal and not worth the gamble.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Beetlejuice

[Bakeman]

So doing the math and adding the fees there is 200,000.00 baht due and with US dollar conversion of 30 baht per it equals $6,666.66

And it may sit on someone's desk indefinitely and could possibly never be signed.

Me being superstitious that's a lot of devil numbers which really makes me steer clear of this offer.

[Maestro]

Removed some off-topic posts.

[Maestro]

Can anyone tell me whether the PR is open ended or has a window - 5 years, 10 years? Many thanks

It is valid indefinitely, on condition that you get a re-entry visa before leaving Thailand and return to Thailand before its expiration date. I believe there is also a book you have to get stamped by your local police station every five years.

[stbkk]

So let us place this into perspective:

Only 100 persons of each nationality is awarded permanent residence that rather turns this into a very expensive lottery, the chances are extremely slim.

If awarded a permanent residence the total cost will be 200000 baht. Now, considering that extending our visas each year costs 1900 baht, that means obtaining a PR is equivalent to105 years of annual 1900 baht regular visa extensions. Plus taking into consideration that all this will mean is that there is no need to have certain monies saved in a Thai bank every year and not having to visit Immigration once a year and that`s about it. Nothing else would change, most of the rules that are in force for those on non Immigrant visa will still apply, including the 90 day day reports and other limitations that affect ex-pats living in Thailand.

If for a total of 200000 baht obtaining a PR was guaranteed providing the applicants met all the criteria, then I would have no hesitation going for it, but considering it`s a 7600 baht lottery ticket with odds that are probably 1000s to one, than no way. It`s simply not a good deal and not worth the gamble.

If you apply or not is clearly up to you. But a couple of clarifications on your above post.

1. You don't have to do a 90 day report if you have PR.

2. The 100 per nationality limit is hardly ever reached for most nationalities. When they used to publish the approvals on the immigration web-site, 'Western' nationalities (UK/USA/Germany etc.) usually only had a few each, each year. If this is a factor for you, you can always check with the PR department in immigration, they are very helpful.

[Mario2008]

So doing the math and adding the fees there is 200,000.00 baht due and with US dollar conversion of 30 baht per it equals $6,666.66

And it may sit on someone's desk indefinitely and could possibly never be signed.

Me being superstitious that's a lot of devil numbers which really makes me steer clear of this offer.

You only pay something of 7,900 baht to apply. Only when it is approved do you pay the fee of about 198,000 baht.

[maisodni]

From my own experience, back in 2011 - if your packet is complete with everything else - and you are ONLY missing the criminal records check results from your home country, you can still apply - you just need a photocopy of your REQUEST for criminal records check, plus the postal or courier payment receipt.

I requested criminal records check from USA at start of October. The results came back in April. Immigration still accepted my PR application in December. My appiication packet was actually forwarded from Immigration to Ministry of the Interior in September 2012.

Cheers!
MS

[Neeranam]

My friend couldn't speak a word and got it.

The order of the white elephant 5th order may have helped and he worked in the US embassy

Did you stretch the truth in this story? you can not apply unless you are employed by a Thai company. Working for an embassy does not qualify you.

There are some exceptions to the WP/tax requirements. For example, foriegn Buddhist monks. So I wouldn't put it out of the bounds of possibility that an embassy employee might qualify. They would likely have some connections in the right places too.

Maybe for monks, but let me repeat. Working for an embassy does not qualify you.

Well let me repeat, he did have a PR book which he showed me. He also said it was because of who he knew, which I thought strange at the time and not necessary but maybe normal Embassy staff don't get it. He was First Secretary and CIA. Actually, I did make a mistake it was only 3rd order of the white elephant presented by HM the King.

[ubonjoe]

Maybe for monks, but let me repeat. Working for an embassy does not qualify you.

Well let me repeat, he did have a PR book which he showed me. He also said it was because of who he knew, which I thought strange at the time and not necessary but maybe normal Embassy staff don't get it. He was First Secretary and CIA. Actually, I did make a mistake it was only 3rd order of the white elephant presented by HM the King.

There is are these categories in the regulation "2.5 Extra circumstances on a case by case basis and 3.5 Qualification of applicant on extra circumstances to be considered on a case by case basis that it could be done" that he probably got it under.

Source: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/residence/26122546_regulation_notice_en.pdf

[dbrenn]

Already said so in the Camerata thread, but thanks for this very positive news Arkady!

I have to admit I felt pretty negative about the current regime when the 2nd half of Dec came and went without even a peep from anyone about this.

My friend that has his application prepared mentioned to me that CW told him there was a possibility that they would open for applications late but I was pretty sceptical about that.

This is a first is it not?

It's the first time I am aware that applications for a year's quota have been accepted in January of the following year but at least this avoids the clash with year end holidays. Going back to the 80s or so they used to issue the quota as early as March which meant that the window of applications was about 8 months, compared the two weeks that has become the norm for unknown reasons.

I still have some faith that the current minister is trying to introduce greater transparency and fairness into the process. He has clearly made strides in this direction regarding citizenship approvals, having approved unprecedented numbers in his first 3 months in office along with thinly veiled criticism about undue delays that left applicants in uncertainty about their status for years and corruption in the system. PR applications go through the same part of the Interior Ministry and it would be consistent, if he lit a rocket under that process too and it would improve the government's image vis a vis foreign investors.

In the latter half of the 90s, when I applied, Immigration was virtually able to guarantee a reply within 12 months but the process was disrupted when Purachai became IM under Thaksin and knocked back entire batches of PR and citizenship applications as "unworthy" and accused police of corruption in screening them. There is no reason why PR applications should take 5-7 years to approve and most of the steps take place quite promptly leaving the applications waiting for the minister's signature for years.

I also applied in the late 90's and thought that the process was fairly transparent. Being the festive season, I thanked the (very nice and polite) officer who processed my accepted my application by leaving a bottle of Johnny Walker Swing next to his desk, and in doing so I asked him what my chances of getting my PR approved were. He smiled, and said "around 90 percent". I was called back the following March for my fingerprinting and interview, which was a rubber stamp job - no interview at all. I got my PR around 6 months after that.

That said, the wording of the criteria for approval (from the translation above) still seems to leave room for discretionary process:

"To grant approval for the residence permit application, the Immigration Commission will take into its consideration the applicants’qualifications in terms of the understanding of Thai language, and personality".

Hmmm. How do they define and quantify "personality", I wonder? Are they just talking about whether the applicant has a criminal record (like the Character Test that is part of applying for Australian PR), or are they talking about how much 'merit' they subjectively believe that the applicant has, i.e., how much they like you?

Edited January 16, 2015 by dbrenn

[Time Traveller]

Maybe for monks, but let me repeat. Working for an embassy does not qualify you.

Well let me repeat, he did have a PR book which he showed me. He also said it was because of who he knew, which I thought strange at the time and not necessary but maybe normal Embassy staff don't get it. He was First Secretary and CIA. Actually, I did make a mistake it was only 3rd order of the white elephant presented by HM the King.

So he's both CIA and Order of the White Elephant as well is he? What year did your friend get this ? I'd like to look it up.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Time Traveller

[dbrenn]

So let us place this into perspective:

Only 100 persons of each nationality is awarded permanent residence that rather turns this into a very expensive lottery, the chances are extremely slim.

If awarded a permanent residence the total cost will be 200000 baht. Now, considering that extending our visas each year costs 1900 baht, that means obtaining a PR is equivalent to105 years of annual 1900 baht regular visa extensions. Plus taking into consideration that all this will mean is that there is no need to have certain monies saved in a Thai bank every year and not having to visit Immigration once a year and that`s about it. Nothing else would change, most of the rules that are in force for those on non Immigrant visa will still apply, including the 90 day day reports and other limitations that affect ex-pats living in Thailand.

If for a total of 200000 baht obtaining a PR was guaranteed providing the applicants met all the criteria, then I would have no hesitation going for it, but considering it`s a 7600 baht lottery ticket with odds that are probably 1000s to one, than no way. It`s simply not a good deal and not worth the gamble.

I think that Chinese, Indians and the like, where there is a large resident population, may indeed max out their quotas, but the chances are not as slim as you think if you come from a western country.

When I applied, I was told that I was the 17th applicant that year for my nationality (British).

[Neeranam]

Maybe for monks, but let me repeat. Working for an embassy does not qualify you.

Well let me repeat, he did have a PR book which he showed me. He also said it was because of who he knew, which I thought strange at the time and not necessary but maybe normal Embassy staff don't get it. He was First Secretary and CIA. Actually, I did make a mistake it was only 3rd order of the white elephant presented by HM the King.

So he's both CIA and Order of the White Elephant as well is he? What year did your friend get this ? I'd like to look it up.

He was, he died last year. http://www.27east.com/news/article.cfm/Sag-Harbor/58562/Francis-Skiddy-Sherry-III-Dies-On-March-31

It was an honour be a friend of this remarkable man. His apartment was upstairs from mine and like a museu, and I enjoyed many hours of his wonderful stories. I have a copy of his autobiography on file which both the US government and the Thai would allow to be published very interesting about the Kymer Rouge, the Lao border wars etc.

[Time Traveller]

Maybe for monks, but let me repeat. Working for an embassy does not qualify you.

Well let me repeat, he did have a PR book which he showed me. He also said it was because of who he knew, which I thought strange at the time and not necessary but maybe normal Embassy staff don't get it. He was First Secretary and CIA. Actually, I did make a mistake it was only 3rd order of the white elephant presented by HM the King.

So he's both CIA and Order of the White Elephant as well is he? What year did your friend get this ? I'd like to look it up.

He was, he died last year. http://www.27east.com/news/article.cfm/Sag-Harbor/58562/Francis-Skiddy-Sherry-III-Dies-On-March-31

It was an honour be a friend of this remarkable man. His apartment was upstairs from mine and like a museu, and I enjoyed many hours of his wonderful stories. I have a copy of his autobiography on file which both the US government and the Thai would allow to be published very interesting about the Kymer Rouge, the Lao border wars etc.

ok so this sounds like more than 20 years ago that he got PR?

[jtTamad]

What are the disadvantages, if any, vs a retirement visa? Could you work or start a business with it? Can you come and go without a visa? Thanks, jT.

[Mario2008]

If on a retirement visa you do not qualify for PR. You must be working at least 3 years in Thailand, with a work permit and paying taxes. Retirement does not allow working (within Thailand).

PR makes you no longer require a visa or extensions of stay. But you will need a re-entry permit to leave, and return within 1 year. in order to keep PR.

[jtTamad]

thanks.

[Arkady]

So let us place this into perspective:

Only 100 persons of each nationality is awarded permanent residence that rather turns this into a very expensive lottery, the chances are extremely slim.

If awarded a permanent residence the total cost will be 200000 baht. Now, considering that extending our visas each year costs 1900 baht, that means obtaining a PR is equivalent to105 years of annual 1900 baht regular visa extensions. Plus taking into consideration that all this will mean is that there is no need to have certain monies saved in a Thai bank every year and not having to visit Immigration once a year and that`s about it. Nothing else would change, most of the rules that are in force for those on non Immigrant visa will still apply, including the 90 day day reports and other limitations that affect ex-pats living in Thailand.

If for a total of 200000 baht obtaining a PR was guaranteed providing the applicants met all the criteria, then I would have no hesitation going for it, but considering it`s a 7600 baht lottery ticket with odds that are probably 1000s to one, than no way. It`s simply not a good deal and not worth the gamble.

If you apply or not is clearly up to you. But a couple of clarifications on your above post.

1. You don't have to do a 90 day report if you have PR.

2. The 100 per nationality limit is hardly ever reached for most nationalities. When they used to publish the approvals on the immigration web-site, 'Western' nationalities (UK/USA/Germany etc.) usually only had a few each, each year. If this is a factor for you, you can always check with the PR department in immigration, they are very helpful.

As far as I know it is true to say only the Chinese have regularly hit this and, indeed, it was to curb mass immigration from China that the quotas were established in the 50s. So they are still serving their original purpose. Indians have probably hit once or twice. When I applied in the mid 90s there were a total of around 40 Brits and a similar number of Americans while other farang nations were less than that. I think the numbers of farangs are probably similar today or maybe even less because those married to Thais now have the opportunity to bypass PR and apply straight for citizenship. Chinese and Indians are more likely to have wives from their home country and still need to apply for PR first.

[charliebadenhop]

Is it being said that one must apply by Jan. 30 of this year, to be accepted during this year?

And how long does the process usually take?

Do they potentially accept people on Retirement and or ED visas?

Once one is accepted do you still have to pay some fees every year?

I am guessing you would still need to get re-entry "permit"?

Has anyone "run the numbers" on various scenarios?

How many years would you need to stay in Thailand before PR is cheaper than say a Retirement visa or Spouse visa, or work permit?