Impeachment: Judgement day

[webfact]

IMPEACHMENT
Judgement day
The Nation


Former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra receives flowers from supporters after presenting her closing statement before the National Legislative Assembly as part of the impeachment process against her at Parliament yesterday.

BANGKOK: -- Pressure is mounting on the National Legislative Assembly (NLA), which votes today on whether to impeach former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra and two former parliamentary speakers accused of wrongdoings.

Supporters and detractors of the three targeted politicians - Yingluck, former Parliament president Somsak Kiartsuranon and his ex-deputy Nikom Wairatpanij - have urged the NLA members to vote with their conscience.

Social media yesterday was agog with campaigns from both sides. People supporting impeachment said it was a necessary step towards national reform while those opposing impeachment warned of renewed conflicts if the NLA votes to punish the trio.

Observers, meanwhile, expect the impeachment vote to polarise the nation. "No matter which way it goes, there will be those who agree and those who disagree. It won't please everyone," Reuters quoted Peerasak as saying.

Either way, the vote would create dissension against the junta, said Paul Chambers, director of research at Chiang Mai University's Institute of South East Asian Affairs. "Ultimately, no matter which way the NLA votes, it will create dissension against the NCPO by either pro- or anti-Thaksin elements of Thai society," he said, referring to former premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

Support from at least three-fifths of the 220-member NLA, or 132 votes, is required to impeach any of the targeted politicians.

An impeached politician will face a five-year ban from holding political office.

The National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) accused Yingluck of negligence of duty by failing to curb corruption in her government's rice-pledging scheme, and former House speaker Somsak and Senate ex-speaker Nikom of violating the constitution while chairing parliamentary meetings on charter amendments.

The People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC), which held street protests against Yingluck's government, yesterday called on the NLA members to decide with their conscience.

"It is now the NLA's task to prove that morality and ethics exist in Thai society," PDRC spokesman Akanat Promphan said in a phone interview with The Nation.

He said Yingluck failed to provide satisfactory answers to NACC's accusations in her closing statement.

Red-shirt leader Kwanchai Praipana yesterday said Yingluck is the latest of the people close to former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra who are victims of "political persecution".

He also said that as the country has been under the control of the National Council for Peace and Order, the red shirts have been unable to do much in campaigning publicly about this matter.

A politician from Yingluck's Pheu Thai Party, Somkid Chueakong, said yesterday that he expected increased voter support for the party in the next general election if the NLA votes to impeach Yingluck. Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan yesterday criticised certain red-shirt leaders for having warned that a decision to impeach Yingluck could lead to bloodbath or riots.

"Such talk is not good for the country, which is now progressing well. They must use more brains before such talk," he said.

Prawit, who is also deputy PM, said the government was not seeking revenge or acting against anyone. "We are just solving the country's problems and helping the country to move forward."

Yingluck 'satisfied'

Meanwhile, Yingluck said after presenting her closing statement before the NLA that she felt satisfied for "explaining everything" to the assembly members. "I feel happy," she said when asked to describe her feelings.

Yingluck's lawyers were also satisfied with her explanations in response to all the allegations against her, said Pichit Chuenban, one of the legal team members.

He also said that NACC member Wicha Mahakhun, who represented the agency in presenting the closing statement yesterday, appeared to rely on rhetoric in a bid to persuade the NLA members.

The lawyer also urged NLA members to carefully consider all the documents presented by Yingluck's legal team to support her case, before voting today.

The NACC's Wicha yesterday also voiced satisfaction with his closing statement. "Whether the NLA will vote for impeachment or not, we have created a new standard for the country's reform," he said. Before leaving Parliament yesterday, the ex-PM was handed flowers by a small group of supporters. Yingluck is expected to watch a broadcast of the NLA vote today at SC Park Hotel, which is owned by her family, according to a source close to her.

Starting at 10am, the NLA is scheduled to hold a secret ballot whether to impeach Somsak and Nikom, followed by a vote on Yingluck's case later in the day.

NLA member Wanlop Tangkananurak said that after listening to their closing remarks yesterday, he feels that both sides had not produced any new information that was different from their opening remarks last week.

He stressed that reconciliation and impeachment are entirely different issues and the NLA members should make decisions based strictly on legal principles.

"I can't answer for other NLA members but mention of the word 'reconciliation' was less frequent during our impeachment conversation," he said.

Regarding the contrasting information produced by both sides, including the estimated total loss caused by the rice scheme, Wanlop said in his opinion the official figure produced by the Rice Scheme Accounting Committee, which the NACC used as its reference, has more credibility because it came from an official committee.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Judgement-day-30252512.html


-- The Nation 2015-01-23

[Somtamnication]

Hold on, it's going to be a rollercoaster ride!!!

[givenall]

another day another dollar

[MaxLee]

postponed onto another judgement day,... wanna bet?????

[NeilSA1]

To help reduce tensions, for or against, there must be a resounding decision. Unity needs to carry the day.

[Seastallion]

The NLA will decide by secret ballot. Hmmm, I'm not sure that is wise; If she gets off, nobody will know who let her off, if she gets impeached, nobody will know who tried not to impeach her. All members of the NLA should be able to stand by their decisions and face the public for them.

[PepperMe]

Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan yesterday criticised certain red-shirt leaders for having warned that a decision to impeach Yingluck could lead to bloodbath or riots.

Just try it....... I dare ya.

They will do jack sh*t.... I can guarantee that.

She begged for justice from the NLA.... That is exactly what she will receive.... Be careful what you wish for. I don't think you are going to enjoy it if justice is indeed served.

Edited January 23, 2015 by PepperMe

[tukkytuktuk]

Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan yesterday criticised certain red-shirt leaders for having warned that a decision to impeach Yingluck could lead to bloodbath or riots.

These red shirt leaders need arresting for threatening the peace and lives of Thai people. Is this what we want for Thailand and the next generation, violent threats and anarchy promoted by so called leaders who support the Shinawatra regime. Disgraceful, role-models for children interested in politics, more like terrorists threatening the peace of the nation.

[ikurauni]

Whatever the verdict may be, I wish the best for Thailand and Thai people.

[binjalin]

should it not be "Retribution Day" from the unelected 'panel'?

[rubl]

should it not be "Retribution Day" from the unelected 'panel'?

Only for those against.

For most people it is just applying the law in a case where a former PM failed her duties and if not expressly lied at least obfuscated about a self-financing' scheme which ended up as a US$ 25 billion loss.

[binjalin]

should it not be "Retribution Day" from the unelected 'panel'?

Only for those against.

For most people it is just applying the law in a case where a former PM failed her duties and if not expressly lied at least obfuscated about a self-financing' scheme which ended up as a US$ 25 billion loss.

US $25 billion? wow that is a lot must be all that interest mounting up! you will say next US $250 billion? why not US $2,500 billion? truth has no place here right?

was she a great PM? NO has she been charged with corruption? NO should she be hounded, bullied and victimized? NO was the process fair and democratic? NO

I'm not defending her because I think she was a great PM OR I love the Shins - READ the Bloomberg article I think they have it SPOT ON but you won't of course

Edited January 23, 2015 by binjalin

[rubl]

should it not be "Retribution Day" from the unelected 'panel'?

Only for those against.

For most people it is just applying the law in a case where a former PM failed her duties and if not expressly lied at least obfuscated about a self-financing' scheme which ended up as a US$ 25 billion loss.

US $25 billion? wow that is a lot must be all that interest mounting up!

was she a great PM? NO has she been charged with corruption? NO should she be hounded, bullied and victimized? NO was the process fair and democratic? NO

I'm not defending her because I think she was a great PM OR I love the Shins - READ the Bloomberg article I think they have it SPOT ON

Terribly bullied indeed, almost inhuman wouldn't you say?

Asked to explain, asked to take responsibility for her deeds, asked as she herself stated in parliament to be in charge and only she be in charge,

BTW the Bloomberg article doesn't disagree with going after Ms. Yingluck, only with the timing it would seem.

[seajae]

you have to love the ptp/red thinking, impeach her and we will start shooting and bombing Thailand again, screw the country, give us what we want. The guilt factor and what the ptp did while in govt doesnt even come into it, the reds have no concern with what is best for the country just their pockets.

[rijb]

I think today's editorial in the Bangkok Post makes some very valid points. (A time for the rule of law)

[Eric Loh]

you have to love the ptp/red thinking, impeach her and we will start shooting and bombing Thailand again, screw the country, give us what we want. The guilt factor and what the ptp did while in govt doesnt even come into it, the reds have no concern with what is best for the country just their pockets.

Just learning from Sutherp. Remember that he called for thousands of Southern supporters to march into Bangkok if he was impeached for the Phuket land scam? Sure you remember that.

[EyesWideOpen]

Time for big brother to keep his private jet warmed up and waiting nearby....

[rubl]

you have to love the ptp/red thinking, impeach her and we will start shooting and bombing Thailand again, screw the country, give us what we want. The guilt factor and what the ptp did while in govt doesnt even come into it, the reds have no concern with what is best for the country just their pockets.

Just learning from Sutherp. Remember that he called for thousands of Southern supporters to march into Bangkok if he was impeached for the Phuket land scam? Sure you remember that.

... but ... but ... Suthep ?

[rubl]

I think today's editorial in the Bangkok Post makes some very valid points. (A time for the rule of law)

Personally I liked their header with "I never thought about cheating... I ask for justice"

May I add

"All just happened... How could you call me negligent?"

[jayboy]

I think today's editorial in the Bangkok Post makes some very valid points. (A time for the rule of law)

Yes it's interesting that the Bangkok Post, very much in the unelected elites court, is beginning to worry about various aspects of the Stalinist show trial now coming to an end with its prearranged verdict. Yet the concerned press shrink back from the implications that all aware observers have grasped - both friends and enemies of the Shinawatra clan.In other words there is a determination to eradicate the influence of Thaksin altogether, to ignore the views of the Thai people, to produce and bully through a rigged constitution and - in brief - to ensure on the return to "democracy" that no election will be won and no government will take office unless the result is completely predictable and acceptable to the corrupt old establishment.In the short term they will get their way but one fears the eventual reckoning for their greed, selfishness and myopia may be a terrible one.

[seajae]

you have to love the ptp/red thinking, impeach her and we will start shooting and bombing Thailand again, screw the country, give us what we want. The guilt factor and what the ptp did while in govt doesnt even come into it, the reds have no concern with what is best for the country just their pockets.

Just learning from Sutherp. Remember that he called for thousands of Southern supporters to march into Bangkok if he was impeached for the Phuket land scam? Sure you remember that.

strangely enough he didnt call on them to burn Bangkok to the ground, protesting is one thing, calling on a group to start killing others to proclaim innocence is something else but this is exactly what thaksin/the ptp & red leaders do everytime they dont get what they want. Doesnt matter who is in the firing line, ptp or dem, the people need to accept the decision.

[webfact]

IMPEACHMENT SHOWDOWN
Nacc's wicha Calls on assembly to 'set high ethical and moral standards'
Kris Bhromsuthi
The Nation



BANGKOK: -- The anti-graft agency yesterday urged the National Legislative Assembly (NLA) members to impeach former premier Yingluck Shinawatra in order to "make history together" by setting high ethical and moral standards for future leaders to follow.

"By punishing high-ranking public officials, you will set standards for future leaders and remind them of the necessity to possess higher moral and ethical principles than ordinary people," said Wicha Mahakun, who represented the National Anti-Corruption Commission.

The NACC member ended his closing statement before the NLA by saying, "I would like to urge NLA members, let us make history together." Wicha also portrayed the significance of the case in a historical context, as he said it would represent the most visible indictment of policy-fraud since the country began cracking down on graft.

He said Yingluck was accused of dereliction of duty because she had plenty of opportunities to order an investigation or end the scheme but she refused to do so, despite several warnings from the NACC itself and other agencies. As a result, the scandalous scheme caused severe damage to the country.

He pointed out that the rice scheme had caused losses of more than Bt500 billion, according to the Rice-Pledging Scheme Accounting Committee. He said the panel is the most credible source of reference because it consisted of experts in the field, including the director of the Comptroller-General's department, the director of Public Debt Management Office, the director of Marketing Organisation for Farmers, amongst others.

He said the severe fiscal damage would take future governments up to 20 years to fully repay the debt. "Members of society, including our grandchildren, will have to pay for the damage caused," said Wicha.

Summing up the scandalous rice-pledging scheme, he described it as "the scheme that pledged rice, when farmers pledged their lives and the country pledged her debt".

The NLA has been criticised by Yingluck's sympathisers as lacking legitimacy to impeach the former prime minister, as its members were handpicked by the National Council for Peace and Order.

However, Wicha insisted on the NLA's legitimacy, arguing the current interim constitution had given them the responsibility of a Senate, hence he said, "without any doubts or debate, NLA has the legitimacy to rule in the impeachment case".

Another key area of debate circled around the question whether impeachment and the punishment of corrupt officials could hurt the junta's ongoing reconciliation and national reform effort where participation from all sides is needed.

Some argued that seeking the truth and serving the cause of justice, where those found guilty must be punished according to legal principles and rule of law, would be the most significant step to heal the country's political conflict, and lead to a sustainable reconciliation.

People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) spokesman Akanat Promphan earlier warned the NLA members not to use "reconciliation" as an excuse to acquit Yingluck, as they are entirely different issues.

Some people believe that reconciliation involves compromise and forgiveness for all sides, and "not politically going after one particular faction". They feel a decision to impeach the former premier could infuriate millions of her supporters and heat up the country's political climate.

Wicha, however, insisted that during a time of deep-rooted conflict and the ongoing efforts for national reconciliation, upholding legal principles and the rule of law is the most importing thing to unify the country.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Naccs-wicha-Calls-on-assembly-to-set-high-ethical--30252515.html


-- The Nation 2015-01-23

[Robby nz]

I don't understand why some cant get it through their heads that impeachment is only a legal term used because she and others were MP's and a PM at the time of their alleged transgressions.

This is an enquiry into wrongdoing while they were in office and the fact that they are not at this time in office has no bearing on that.

It is the same as an enquiry into wrong doing by the head of any other organization after they have been removed from their position, only the name of the enquiry is different because of their political position.

As for the "Cant do this because it was done under a constitution that no longer exists"

Does that mean that the red bull cop killer can no longer be charged because he killed the kop under the previous constitution ?

No it doesent, the law is still the same and it is the law that any offense was committed under that counts.

And 'reconciliation will be set back if you impeach her', that is just a threat and nothing less than intimidation, as is the talk of action from her supporters who refuse to accept the rule of law as they have done several times before.

There can be no reconciliation if the law is to be ignored.

[binjalin]

" NLA has the legitimacy to rule in the impeachment case"

only because they gave themselves that power

[Diplomatico]

"Junta leader and now Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-Ocha appears to have green-lighted the impeachment as pressure from hard-liners among his supporters mounts,” Ambika Ahuja, a London-based analyst at Eurasia Group, said in a note. “The move is part of a broader bid to limit the political influence of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, Yingluck’s brother, in future elections.”

Prayuth has so far refused to commit to when Thailand’s voters will be able to choose their next government, saying elections must be preceded by the drafting of a new constitution, the implementation of reforms across politics and society, and the “return of happiness” to the country."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-22/thaksin-s-shadow-looms-over-sister-s-impeachment-in-thailand.html

[jayboy]

I don't understand why some cant get it through their heads that impeachment is only a legal term used because she and others were MP's and a PM at the time of their alleged transgressions.

This is an enquiry into wrongdoing while they were in office and the fact that they are not at this time in office has no bearing on that.

It is the same as an enquiry into wrong doing by the head of any other organization after they have been removed from their position, only the name of the enquiry is different because of their political position.

As for the "Cant do this because it was done under a constitution that no longer exists"

Does that mean that the red bull cop killer can no longer be charged because he killed the kop under the previous constitution ?

No it doesent, the law is still the same and it is the law that any offense was committed under that counts.

And 'reconciliation will be set back if you impeach her', that is just a threat and nothing less than intimidation, as is the talk of action from her supporters who refuse to accept the rule of law as they have done several times before.

There can be no reconciliation if the law is to be ignored.

Don't bother letting us have your puerile and ill educated nonsense about the legal issues.You clearly are completely out of your depth as your red cop killer comment shows ( that case is a criminal one and nothing to do with the constitution).Many concerns about the show trial's legality are on the record from legal experts.Furthermore you have the impudent cheek to pontificate on the need to respect the law, ludicrous given your slavish prostration in multiple posts before those who have broken the law ( high treason) and then awarded themselves a free pardon.

[Diplomatico]

I don't understand why some cant get it through their heads that impeachment is only a legal term used because she and others were MP's and a PM at the time of their alleged transgressions.

This is an enquiry into wrongdoing while they were in office and the fact that they are not at this time in office has no bearing on that.

It is the same as an enquiry into wrong doing by the head of any other organization after they have been removed from their position, only the name of the enquiry is different because of their political position.

As for the "Cant do this because it was done under a constitution that no longer exists"

Does that mean that the red bull cop killer can no longer be charged because he killed the kop under the previous constitution ?

No it doesent, the law is still the same and it is the law that any offense was committed under that counts.

And 'reconciliation will be set back if you impeach her', that is just a threat and nothing less than intimidation, as is the talk of action from her supporters who refuse to accept the rule of law as they have done several times before.

There can be no reconciliation if the law is to be ignored.

Don't bother letting us have your puerile and ill educated nonsense about the legal issues.You clearly are completely out of your depth as your red cop killer comment shows ( that case is a criminal one and nothing to do with the constitution).Many concerns about the show trial's legality are on the record from legal experts.Furthermore you have the impudent cheek to pontificate on the need to respect the law, ludicrous given your slavish prostration in multiple posts before those who have broken the law ( high treason) and then awarded themselves a free pardon.

BOOM! Lawyered!

[rickirs]

In order to prevent the threat of national political conflict, the Thai military will overthrow the government, impose martial law, suspend freedom of expression, delay the next elections, .....

Wait, already been there and done that. Regardless of the outcome of Yingluck's impeachment, there will continue to be the confinement of democracy in limbo.

[webfact]

The National Legislative Assembly begins calling names of members at 11.00 am in alphabetical order to receive three ballots for them to cast their votes simultaneously whether to impeach the three accused politicians or not.

The ballots in three different colours – pink for Nikhom, white for Somsak, and yellow for Yingluck – will have only two windows for NLA to mark, “Yes”or “No” to impeach.

In case of leaving the ballots blank with no marks, they will be considered as abstentions.

The voting is held confidentially and each NLA member will drop the ballots into three different boxes.

The voting pattern is same as the voting used in the general election in which voters are given ballots to mark in booths, and then drop into the ballot boxes.

The votes needed to impeach must be three-fifths of the total 220 NLA members, or 132 votes.

NLA president Pornpetch Wichitcholchai said he expected the result could be known before noon.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/83708


-- Thai PBS 2015-01-23

[Baerboxer]

"Junta leader and now Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-Ocha appears to have green-lighted the impeachment as pressure from hard-liners among his supporters mounts,” Ambika Ahuja, a London-based analyst at Eurasia Group, said in a note. “The move is part of a broader bid to limit the political influence of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, Yingluck’s brother, in future elections.”

Prayuth has so far refused to commit to when Thailand’s voters will be able to choose their next government, saying elections must be preceded by the drafting of a new constitution, the implementation of reforms across politics and society, and the “return of happiness” to the country."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-22/thaksin-s-shadow-looms-over-sister-s-impeachment-in-thailand.html

Is it reasonable that any country would seek to eradicate, let alone limit the influence, in this case somewhat substantial control, of a convicted criminal fugitive wanted on 15 more serious outstanding criminal charges on future elections and more importantly a government?

How can any journalist think it remotely acceptable for a criminal on the run to pick the cabinet, control the PM and decide policy and priorities? The biggest of which was his own whitewash of all crimes, conviction and charges?